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PC Games (Games)

A Critique of The State of Adventure Gaming 49

Posted by Zonk from the pirates-and-tentacles-are-the-best dept.
Erwin Broekhuis writes "The fourth and last installment of Beiddie Rafól's The Cold Hotspot: A Critique of the State of Adventure Games, has been published at Adventure Developers. The series explores some of the key points and contradictions of the stagnation and lack of direction within the adventure game genre." From the first article: "The truth is, the adventure game genre, as we all know it, has long been suffering from obscurity, lack of progress, sheer banality, isolation (surprise!), and, simply, from the garden variety of dullness. And everyone - developers, publishers, the media, and yes, we gamers ourselves - is guilty of creating and fueling this suffering."
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A Critique of The State of Adventure Gaming More

A Critique of The State of Adventure Gaming

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  • As an adventure gamer myself (Score:3, Interesting)

    by El_Muerte_TDS ( 592157 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @03:41PM (#13159782) Homepage
    I like adventure games a lot, specially those with a bit of action in them (usually called Action\Adventure games).

    One of the things that disturbes me most is the incorrect labeling of games as adventure games. Way to often games are labeled as adventure games while they are really just action games. Flipping switches doesn't make an game an adventure game (i.e. tomb Raider).

    Besides this most gamers don't want to break a sweat by doing some brain activity. Or so it looks. It's not like there are a lot of good adventure games. Maybe it's because of the popularity of online gaming, adventure games don't work well for online games (hint hint, a new area to explore, e.g. true gaming inovation).
    Almost 10 years have past since the popularity of adventure games (or at least that's my opinion), maybe it's time for a true revival of that genre.

    I'm specially looking for to good action\adventure games like Little Big Adventure, Dark Earth, Beyond Good & Evil (although the end of that game was rushed).
    • I agree. All of those games you listed are great. I found myself recently playing through some other greats: The Longest Journey, Syberia 1 and 2, Shivers 2, Bioforge, and some others. I'm REALLY looking forward to Dreamfall [dreamfall.com] (The Longest Journey 2).

      I've found that adventure games are the only games that really give me a feel for character development, and they're also the only games that can make female characters sexy to me (which is generally because they're the opposite of the huge-tittied Lara Cro

    • Re:As an adventure gamer myself (Score:4, Insightful)

      by buffer-overflowed ( 588867 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @07:15PM (#13161437) Journal
      I loved Beyond Good and Evil. The Zelda series also qualifies as action/adventure.

      I really miss the old Sierra/Lucasarts games though.

      I actually still play them. Sam and Max, Day of the Tentacle, Space Quest, The Dig, etc. etc.

      Great games with a sense of humor. Each one different. There used to be a whole slew of them every year. Then came the great 3D transition and away they went. They survived the transition from text to graphics, but couldn't cope with the 3D.

      Even Grim Fandango was tough to control, and I don't think it benefitted much from 3D gameplay.

      Almost no more 2D games outside of portables, next to no new adventure games... sigh. It's really rather sad actually. The playstation and quake mark the death of whole genres that really never should've died.
      • I found Grim Fandango no more difficult to control than Resident Evil, it just had a more interactive environment. Once I got the hang of Grim Fandango's controls (by the time I left El Marrow) Manny was easy to move. The key was mapping my gamepad to him. Turning and walking using a d-pad was super-simple, then hold down a shoulder button to make him run.

        Pointing and clicking makes me feel more detached from a character, like I'm not directly controlling him or her. Manny felt more real as he walked r
      • I loved Beyond Good and Evil. The Zelda series also qualifies as action/adventure.

        I really miss the old Sierra/Lucasarts games though.

        I actually still play them. Sam and Max, Day of the Tentacle, Space Quest, The Dig, etc. etc.

         Have you checked out Psychonauts [psychonauts.com]? It's by Tim Shafer's studio, Double Fine [doublefine.com], and is very much a hybrid platformer/adventure. It's available for Xbox, PS2, and PC. (Tim Shafer was the director of Full Throttle and Grim Fandango.)

        (Full disclosure: I'm one of the game's develo
      • next to no new adventure games...

        The Adventure Company seems to put them out fairly regularly.

  • Definitions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Pxtl ( 151020 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @03:50PM (#13159864) Homepage
    I skimmed the article, but like half of it was simply waffling over the definition of an adventure game, rather than a critique. Personally, I just always figured aventure games to be character/story-driven puzzle-games that gave you oodles of time to solve the puzzles, rather than twitch through them, and that provide you with a wide variety of different puzzles (rather than one main puzzle like Tetris).

    In any case, I think the underlying problem is not adventure games, but that cerebral puzzle games in general are dead. Modern puzzle games are fast-action puzzles like Tetris and Chu-Chu rocket. While these have tactics and tricks, they don't have the sheer mind-bending problem-solving that classic puzzle-solver games had.

    Of course, some adventure games were just obsurd - Sam & Max's puzzles were thoroughly opaque because of the cartoony wierdness of the solutions tp the problems. That one quickly turned into a guessing game.

    • Also along these lines, games seem to be getting away from turn-based strategy games. Sure there are the Civilization games, but there are so many facets to those games that sometimes the real goal gets blurred. Old games like Panzer General and the like had it pretty good for their time. Now everything is real-time strategy and online. They just don't give you the chance to sit there and think about making your next move.

      • The goal in Civilization isn't blurry. It's really quite simple. "Rule the world." The only catch is, you have to choose how to do it. Do you want to win militarily, or would you rather win the space race? Do you want to take over opponent's cities, or would you rather win them over with your awe-inspiring culture?

        If you're really looking for a "there's one way to win" game in Civilization, go to civfanatics [civfanatics.com] and try the game of the month or try to scenarios available in the game (at least in the Gold Editi

        • imho, the problem with Civ isn't the ambiguous goal, but the ambiguous math. In action, puzzle, etc. games, it is often pretty easy for players to discern the underlying rules of the game (weapon X does Y damage, I can jump Z high, piece Q and move points P and then shoot R spaces, etc.). Civ-games often have world-models too complex for players to discern what real game-effects their actions will have (the AI conversations are an excellent example). Moo3 flopped almost entirely on this principle.
          • You've definitely got me there. "Communicating" with AI opponents is terrible. It helps to think of them as children though. Give them what they want this turn, and they'll give you what you want next turn.

  • The old Sierra (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Morgon ( 27979 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @03:59PM (#13159938) Homepage
    There was no better time in PC gaming than when Sierra was actively developing their Quest games.

    Kings Quest (at least KQ 1 - 7)
    Space Quest (This NEEDS a 7)
    Quest for Glory

    These are what made gaming great. I absolutely loved their Robin Hood game, Conquests of the Longbow.

    The only other game that was remotely as fun (though perhaps not as involving) as these was Grim Fandango from LucasArts.

    Wonder what the Williams' (Ken & Roberta, the founders of Sierra) are up to these days, anyway. They need to get the old team back together and remind people why they were the powerhouse of PC gaming in its day.

    • Re:The old Sierra (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nasarius ( 593729 )
      Absolutely, though I thought KQ7 sucked, and QFG5 wasn't very good either. Police Quest deserves a mention too.

      And how could you bring up LucasArts without mentioning Monkey Island?! Those games were brilliant.

    • Don't forget Police Quest. Good times.
    • I KNEW I forgot one of the Quest series...
      Police Quest.

      That sorta spun off into their SWAT games, but PQ3 was a helluva game... one of the most graphic at the time, if memory serves.

      I actually posted this directly after my initial comment, but the post timer caught me and I didn't see it :-P

      It also gave me time to bring up Phantasmagoria. Wasn't that like... the *original* controversial game? It got pulled from shelves for its content (which wasn't.... anything.... at all, just more than what people were

    • KQ had 8 games.

      King's Quest 8: Mask of Eternity [sierraplanet.com]

      Some people didn't like it, others loved it, I was one of the people that loved this game. It was probably moreso an action game, but there were still some adventure elements left in (some puzzle stuff). However I believe for the time, the graphics were decent and the landscapes and music were quite good!

  • Defining the genre (Score:4, Informative)

    by NetDanzr ( 619387 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @04:05PM (#13159992)
    I consider myself to be a big adventure game fan. The kind of a fan who plays upwards to 30 adventures per month: one or two big-budget games, a whole bunch of new independent adventures and a dozen or so interactive fiction games on my Sony Clie while sitting in the bathroom.

    I'm also one of the people guilty of a certain degree of snobishness, when it comes to defining the adventure genre. In addition to the usual "story- and character-driven" requirements, my definition also includes interface and game mechanics-related things, such as an absolute lack of action or timed sequences in adventure games. Why? Because when I go to the store and approach the adventure section, I want to be sure that I'll enjoy the game I pick. I don't enjoy any real-time games, and only two genres can guarantee that I'll be spared of those: turn-based strategies and adventures. Please note that turn-based strategies already have a qualifier in their name; the entire strategy genre split into real-time and turn-based, precisely to offer a guarantee to people like me. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening with adventures.

    That said, I acknowledge that there are adventure games that don't fit my definition. As the article said, I recognize an adventure game when I see it. However, instead of calling some games action/adventures, as I should, I tend to severly downrate them in my reviews for their violations of my definition. Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon is a prime example. As good as the character development, writing and the majority of puzzles were, I gave it [netjak.com] only 75%, courtesy of the action sequences.

    I'm not planing to change my approach, though. There are so many good adventure games being released every month, thanks to a very strong and dedicated independent fan community, that I can afford to remain stubborn.

    • However, instead of calling some games action/adventures, as I should, I tend to severly downrate them in my reviews for their violations of my definition. Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon is a prime example. As good as the character development, writing and the majority of puzzles were, I gave it only 75%, courtesy of the action sequences. Given that the action sequences in Broken Sword 3 were a) easy and b) only a very very minor part of the game it would seem strange that they annoyed you enough to mak
      • You have touched exactly on what the problem is. You see, I found the action sequences to be a) frustrating, and b) preventing me from finishing the game. The tunel escape scene took me nearly an hour to finish, and I never managed to kill the dragon. I'm aware of the fact that I suck at any action sequences, and precisely for this reason, when I purchase a game with the word "Adventure" on the box, I expect to see no action sequences at all. For this reason, I tend to downrate anything that doesn't sat
        • For a reference, how did/would you grade the Lucas Arts Indiana Jones games (the 2d ones)?
          • I never played them. They were marketed as action adventures (game mechanics were compared to Tomb Raider), and so I was able to avoid those games and not suffer a disappointment.

            • I would guess that by the 2d ones he meant the "point and click" "Fate of Atlantis [wikipedia.org] and "The Last Crusade" [wikipedia.org] rather than the more recent tomb raider style games.

              Both contain fighting sections, but as far as I'm aware you can avoid all of these (at least in atlantis). There were also action games based on the above games but I've neer played them.

              • If he meant those, then I played and enjoyed Fate of Atlantis very much; in fact, it ranges among my most favorite games. Partially because the "Insert" key let me automatically win every fight ;) The Last Crusade was much more frustrating; especially the "Avoid all enemies" puzzle in the blimp, but I finished it once. Never felt like replaying it, though.

                For reference, I was talking about "The Infernal Machine" and "Emperor's Tomb".

  • The genre has evolved (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jarlsberg ( 643324 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @04:07PM (#13160006) Journal
    I've played adventure games since they were solely text based, and I've played just about every Sierra and Lucasarts games that were published (and tons of adventure games by less popular labels), but I still wouldn't want to see a new adventure game made like in the old days. The sudden death of the Sierra games, and the often twisted logic of puzzle solving in both Sierra and Lucasarts games are not something I would want to see in a new adventure game.

    For me, it's all about the story, and so for me, GTA: San Andreas is an adventure game. It's got everything the old adventure games had, except for the puzzle solving. I would like to see more games like GTA, that gives you the freedom to do "anything*, but which also includes more stuff to do outside the predefined missions. It's a huge task for the programmers though. :)

    I whole heartedly support the author's definition of an adventure game. Paraphrasing:

    An adventure game is a game in which first and foremost contains: a very strong and coherent story or narrative structure, sharply developed characterization (of people, places, and/or things), a clearly defined set of goals, challenges that require and emphasize thought and logic reasoning, and elements of exploration and discovery."
    Point and click is dead, long live the adventure genre :=)

  • Netcraft confirms it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xenocide2 ( 231786 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @06:25PM (#13161094) Homepage
    Adventure gaming is dead. Editorialists speculate it killed itself. [oldmanmurray.com]
  • The articles (I read all four parts) mention how story and character development is one of the greatest strengths of adventure games. It then completely ignores that and says the way to save adventure games is to experiment more and take things from other generes. He praises adding things like real time 3D engines and direct character movement.

    His recommendations actually impede the development of good stories, however. I stopped playing Final Fantasy games because it got boring as hell walking through
    • So have a run button, or in Blade Runner cicking once was walking, twice was jogging, three was running, and four was sprinting. That'll cut down on travel time. I'll take this opportunity to state that long backtracks to put object A into socket B a mile away suck big time and always have. Developers need to stop being lazy with long backtracks - and for the most part they have.

      I'd say 3D is very important for keeping the visual quality high enough to immerse the player. I'm too young to have played t
      • "I'm too young to have played the classic 80's text adventures, but even if someone told me they were as awesome as Grim Fandango, I wouldn't because they have no visuals."

        I dont see the sense in this, how can you claim to want good story and refuse to even give a chance to some of the best made.

        • That does need clarifying. The art deco meets mayan visuals were part of what made Grim Fandango so great. Even if the story of a text adventure was equally good, it wouldn't have the visuals to match. I've read many good books, but the descriptions of visuals don't WOW me like a great looking movie or game.

          Modern adventure games need to hold their own visually against the other titles on the shelf to bring that WOW factor.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Here are some different examples of "adventure games"

      Kings Quest
      Calahans Crosstime Saloon
      Myst: Uru
      Loom
      Siberia
      Little Big Adventure
      The Longest Journey
      Beneath a Steel Sky
      Discworld Noir

      Oddworl

  • Someone please explain to me... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HunterZ ( 20035 ) on Monday July 25, 2005 @09:01PM (#13162046) Journal
    ...how it's my fault that LucasArts cancelled development on Full Throttle 2, claiming that "the market isn't right for adventure games right now" (or somesuch)? I really have to point the finger at the publishers - if not the developers themselves - for being locked in some faulty mindsets about which kinds of games consumers (for lack of a better word) would be willing to buy in sufficient quantities.

    On the other hand, I'm willing to admit (if not bet money) that it could be myself who has a faulty mindset regarding which kinds of games will make the most money these days.

    Still, diversity can be a healthy thing. Large publishers should consider the extra money they could make by reaching segments of the gamer audience that would be interested in a resurgense of good, original, and of course fun adventure games.

    (P.S. I didn't RTFA)
  • You know, one of the worst things about adventure games was the inane logic. In some games, it was alright. Mostly the LucasArts and DiscWorld games, because they were set in pretty wacky premises to begin with. The Dig is a notable exception from LucasArts' other games, as the puzzles are much more realistic in terms of solvability.

    I remember in Day of the Tentacle there was a point where you had to wash a wagon (in the late 1700s) to make it rain so that you could get Ben Franklin struck by lightning. Wh

  • The relationship between RPG and Adventure (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WaterBreath ( 812358 ) on Tuesday July 26, 2005 @01:00PM (#13167610)
    I had an insight while reading part three of this series of articles. I realized why it was that I enjoyed Final Fantasy X (FFX) so much, despite it being so different from the other Final Fantasy games.

    While playing the game, I noticed differences, such as the fact that I never had to take a side-track from the story for the exclusive purpose of boosting stats. I cruised along at a relatively quick pace through the story. But I did notice the culmination of a trend in my reactions to RPGs over the years. Random encounters have become increasingly annoying to me, because they slow down progression of the story. If FFX had had many more random encounters than it did, or if I'd had to go on stat-boosting side-tracks from the story, I would probably not have finished the game. Furthermore, the game felt short. It wasn't particularly short, but it felt like it was. In a way this was nice, because I knew the missing time was just the annoying grinding. But it left me wishing there had been a bit "more", though more of what, I didn't know.

    I ruminated on this for a while after finishing the game. I liked it a lot, but I knew it wasn't as good as it could have been. So I thought to myself, "What would have made this more enjoyable for me?" I decided that random encounters could probably be removed from the game. Monsters provide a nice story element, but let's face it-- In most every RPG every made, the use of monsters causes a trade-off between reliable plot-driver and a consistent world. If these worlds really had as many monsters as random battles would imply, then there'd be no way a regular person could survive in it.

    With random encounters removed, a lot of what makes an RPG an RPG is gone. So I thought this idea was a failure. But what I didn't realize is that what we have left is much closer to "Adventure". With a few more modifications, we'd have a full-fledged Adventure game.

    In short, I think that if the Adventure genre and the RPG genre took a look at each other they could learn a few good lessons from each other and join to become an improved amalgamation genre that would be even better than the originals. RPG, ease back on the stat-obsession, and cut the random encounters. Adventure, get used to 3D, develop more robust motion control, and don't shy away from multi- or many-use items and abilities.

    Imagine how great it would be. A truly dynamic, interactive, maybe even open-ended, player-driven story. At the same time it could be audiovisually immersive (not just pretty), and avoid unrealistic grinding and stat-obsession that require constant "suspension of disbelief".

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