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Nintendo Businesses Entertainment Games

Nintendo's Crackrock Revealed 63

Posted by Zonk from the why-they-so-crazy dept.
Press the Buttons has linkage to and commentary on an N-Sider story explaining some of the wacky decisions that Nintendo has made over the years. From the post: "There are a lot of unanswered questions out there in Nintendoland: Why was there never a Metroid 64? Why did cliche villain Wario become a major character, and then only for the Game Boy? What was the Virtual Boy supposed to accomplish? Why was there only a Game Boy follow-up to Kid Icarus? The short answer is 'politics'."
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Nintendo's Crackrock Revealed More

Nintendo's Crackrock Revealed

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  • N64 (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Digital Vomit ( 891734 )
    "When the Nintendo 64 came into fruition, the only thing Nintendo fans seemed to want were 3D sequels to the great games Nintendo created on the Super Nintendo."

    I beg to differ. Mario/Zelda/Metroid on the the SNES were the pinnacle of Nintendo gaming. It all went downhill with the N64, and has only made a slight comback with the Gamecube, IMHO. I was a huge fan of these games, but the 3D versions just ruined it for me. I still think there's room for 2D games, but almost no one seems to want to try it.

    • Re:N64 (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Txiasaeia ( 581598 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @05:10PM (#13198811)
      " I still think there's room for 2D games, but almost no one seems to want to try it."

      Have you tried Metroid Fusion & Zero for the GBA? How about Ninja Five-O for the same platform, or any of the Castlevania GBA games? Alien Hominid for the big three? All fantastic games, all 2d sidescrollers.

      I do disagree with your comments on 3d gaming, though. Metroid Prime 1 & 2 are *excellent* games that perfectly capture the feel of their 2d bretheren. It's a pity you can't get past the interface; as a PC gamer, I'm amazed that MP1 & 2 are just as playable as any PC FPS with keyboard/mouse.

      • IMHO the problem with the sidescrollers you mentioned is that they're designed for hard-core 2D gamers, that is, they're extremely long, and generally involve some sort of annoying, counterintuitive puzzle which for players who don't want to look it up online or in a hint book becomes a brick wall. When I play these games (And the same goes for many of the side/overhead-scrolling 3d console games that pop up now and them) I often get the feeling that the developers are still trapped in the 1980s mindset of
        • IMHO the problem with the sidescrollers you mentioned is that they're designed for hard-core 2D gamers, that is, they're extremely long, and generally involve some sort of annoying, counterintuitive puzzle which for players who don't want to look it up online or in a hint book becomes a brick wall.

          Um, have you actually played them?

          I'm a totally crap game player, but all the GBA castlevania and metroid games were fairly straight-forward -- no mad skillz required -- had very well tuned difficulty curves, and
          • I'm a totally crap game player, but all the GBA castlevania and metroid games were fairly straight-forward -- no mad skillz required -- had very well tuned difficulty curves, and certainly had no obscure puzzles. They were massively, incredibly, fun as well.

            Seconded re: the 2D Metroid games (I've never been a huge Castlevania fan).

            One of the best design features of the 2D Metroid games is that generally anyone can finish them, but they include a lot of optional content for the super-hardcore. With practice,

          • I felt there was way too much hand-holding in Metroid Fusion. The bloody computer pretty well told you EVERYTHING you needed to know. It was completely linear. Zero Mission at least let go after a few Chozo statues pointed you towards some of the items.

            Oh, and SA-X was a bloody bitch. Really easy though near the end. :D

          • I second that, those 2d games are ofter much more straight-forward and easier then any of the 3d kind. I finished both Metroid Zero and Metroid Fusion, collected all 100%, did a below 2 hour run and had great fun with these games. Sure, if you want to get every secret in the game it gets a bit complicated and a look in a walkthrough might help, but getting to the credit screen itself is pretty easy, especially because you get tons of tips on where to go next. In MetroidPrime on the other side I often wander

    • Re:N64 (Score:3, Interesting)

      by grumbel ( 592662 )
      ### Mario/Zelda/Metroid on the the SNES were the pinnacle of Nintendo gaming. It all went downhill with the N64

      Thats a bit of a stretch, ZeldaOoT is hailed as one of the best games ever, Mario64 basically invented a whole new genre and simply is still one of the best 3D jump'n runs around. Ok, Metroid went nowhere since there wasn't a N64 version of it, but thats not really downhill either. With Gamecube on the other side you have Sunshine which is frustrating and boring where Mario64 was just pure fun. Win
      • One example of a 2D game using 3D rendering is Ikaruga.
        It's basicly a standard 2D shmup (well not so standard ;) but the graphics are in 3D. The ships and enviroment are rendered and well here's [ikaruga.co.uk] a vid from the game (map4, hard). The gameplay is amazing too ;)
        • That game is easily the best shooter that's come out recently. And it is so fucking hard. But addictive. So fun, so challenging! A truly innovative shooter. Hell, the game is practically a maze and not a shooter at all depending on the difficulty.
    • i think you're misinterpreting the quote, 3d sequels were what the fans WANTED when the system came out. whether or not those sequels were as good as the SNES versions is irrelevent, the N64 came out and everyone said "oooh shiny! we want mario in 3d!!!" before they actually played it

    • Re:N64 (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Linus Torvaalds ( 876626 )

      Mario/Zelda/Metroid on the the SNES were the pinnacle of Nintendo gaming. It all went downhill with the N64

      I agree. The SNES was the last Nintendo hardware I owned. When the N64 came out, I remember being distinctly unimpressed with Mario 3D or whatever it was called. The graphics might have been better (and in fact, I think they were worse; big, blocky 3D is worse than small, pixellated 2D), but platformers as a genre are far more playable in 2D.

      From my perspective, it wasn't so much "the only th

      • If you have never played Mario64, Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask, you are missing out on some great games.
        • I played Mario64 (that's the name I was trying to remember) for a while, it just wasn't a tenth as fun as Marioworld or SMB 1-3. I've played a few other 3D platformers since then, and had exactly the same experience. There's something very different about 2D and 3D platformers that makes one fun and one not fun to me.

    • Re:N64 (Score:2, Insightful)

      by qurk ( 87195 )
      I agree with you. While I was completely into Quake for a period of like 5 years (after giving up console gaming for the most part in 1994), the N64 almost completely turned me off. For one thing, the 3d was ok, but Quake blew it away. A friend loaned me a N64 and some games about a month ago, so I'm starting to discover some of the fun of Mario Kart, and Mario 64, but at the time the selling point of 3d games was a complete downer for me, as Quake had completely taken over my gaming life. Also, where
      • It's not huge, but Ogre Battle 64 and Paper Mario are both worth playing.

        And although not RPGs per se, I think an PRGer would probably like DK64, Bajo-Kazooie (and its sequel), and Conker's Bad Fur Day.

        • Re:N64 (Score:1)

          by qurk ( 87195 )
          Thank you for the recommendations! Been trying to find info on Mother 64, guess it never came out.

  • Well that explains Startropics... (Score:3)

    by Erioll ( 229536 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @04:47PM (#13198677)
    Too bad this game never had a sequel. It may not have been 100% innovative, or 100% polished, or anything else, but it WAS a lot of fun.

    One thing the article missed though is about Metroid, specifically how Retro got into it and produced Metroid Prime (possibly one of the best games ever made)? R&D1 made Fusion, which came out around the same time, but the Retro question remains unanswered.
    • One thing the article missed though is about Metroid, specifically how Retro got into it and produced Metroid Prime (possibly one of the best games ever made)

      Ah. A great game ruined by excessive backtracking and poorly placed save points. You'd think people from R-and-frickin'-D would have learned by now that these are design flaws.

      (Yes, I'm still bitter!)

      • Metroid IS backtracking. It's always been in the series.
        • Metroid IS backtracking. It's always been in the series.

          It's always optional in the 2D games. I was mildly annoyed with the first Prime. The second, with its "explore the ENTIRE DARK WORLD with your new visor" thing, was just stupid.
          • ### It's always optional in the 2D games.

            I wouldn't call it optional, it might have been less then in the 3d ones, but you still had to revisit whole parts over and over again. The only Metroid that I found rather straight forward so far was Metroid2 for the Gameboy, since that had a rather linear 'kill 50' Metroids thing. However I havn't yet played it through completly, so I am not sure if that isn't changing at the end.
        • The original Metroid didn't have much backtracking, because it is fundamentally different from the new games in terms of freedom and branching (mainly because it had less 'keys' you needed to find). MZM (GBA) was a huge disappointment for me. It basically ignored the whole exploration deal and replaced it with big arrows pointing you around. Conveniently locked doors were abundant. I felt herded like a sheep.

          In the original Metroid is just linear in the beginning and end. In the begining you have to get

    • Re:Well that explains Startropics... (Score:5, Informative)

      by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75@@@yahoo...com> on Friday July 29, 2005 @04:58PM (#13198743)
      One thing the article missed though is about Metroid, specifically how Retro got into it and produced Metroid Prime (possibly one of the best games ever made)?

      There are probably articles you can Google about this if you want to read up. The long and the short of the whole Metroid thing is that this game does not sell in Japan. At all. That's why there was no Metroid 64, that's why Nintendo outsourced Metroid Prime. It is just not a franchise they really believe in personally, and besides, being that it's always appealed more to western tastes than Japanese, who better to develop the GameCube update than a western developer?

      They got Retro because they were cheap, and had done some decent work that Nintendo liked in the past (not enough to get them noticed by many people, though, so they stayed cheap). But still, there were apparently major problems with the development of Metroid Prime that forced Shigeru Miyamoto to get personally involved in the project - while most of the grunt work was done by Retro, it was Miyamoto that whipped the game into shape. It was supposedly in such a sad state about a year before release that Nintendo considered killing it altogether. Miyamoto just thought Retro was too inexperienced - talented, but inexperienced - and that all they needed was some guidance. He was right.

      The game still didn't sell in Japan, though. It is completely a western phenomenon, which makes it completely different from everything else Nintendo does. They are still firmly rooted in Japan, and the rest of the world is secondary.

      I wish I could give you some sources for all this, but it's nothing I didn't read online as the whole thing was going on so you should still be able to find articles at places like GameSpot and IGN.
    • There was in fact a sequel to Startropics. Startropics 2: Zoda's Revenge was released in 1994 on the NES. It was nearly as good as the original game.
    • Actually, it did have a sequel. Star Tropics 2: Zoda's Revenge. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/data/587654.ht ml [gamefaqs.com] (gamefaqs)
    • Kudos to someone giving props to Star Tropics. That was the first game I ever loved.

  • Wario only on GB? (Score:3, Informative)

    by jclast ( 888957 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @05:16PM (#13198845) Homepage

    Why did cliche villain Wario become a major character, and then only for the Game Boy?

    It may not have been the greatest game made, but Wario was the star of Wario World for the GCN.

  • Very interesting (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What was the point to linking to Press the Buttons at all? It seems superfluous. Anyway, that was a very interesting read. I'm a long-time Nintendo fan, and I was already pretty familiar with the structure of the company's development teams, but I never knew the rivalry and politics between them was such a big deal. It was very interesting to learn about the shake-up by the new president. Perhaps it will prevent future game development from being hindered by favoritism, but since there are now multiple

  • No where... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by focitrixilous P ( 690813 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @05:36PM (#13198942) Journal
    Neither of the articles mentioned the term "crackrock" anyhwere, or any other drugs that I noticed. It mentions the oddball devlopment teams behind Nintendogs and Wario Ware, such awesomely odd titles, and I'm wondering why you would call them a crackrock. It's possible that hiphop slang has already left me behind, just two months out of high school, but 'crackrock' is probably not a compliment. The question is, then, why does Zonk hate Nintendo? First the "OMGZ Nintendo loses 80% profit NINTENDO IS TEH D00med" and then calling their best dev team a crackrock? What's your beef with Nintendo, Zonk?
    • When someone has really wacky, off-the-wall ideas, one might ask "what are they smoking?" or something along those lines. Well generally derogatory, it is certainly possible to apply this euphemism to something that is offbeat yet all the better for its oddness.

      • Re:No where... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Daetrin ( 576516 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @07:42PM (#13199645)
        I believe in this case the "crackrock" aspect was meant to apply to the oddly stupid buisness decisions, not the oddly fun games. Why were there so few Kid Icarus and Metroid games, and what prompted the development of the Virtual Boy? R&D1 getting the shaft due to politics.

  • Kids games my butt. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by theapodan ( 737488 ) on Friday July 29, 2005 @09:22PM (#13200031)
    I'm tired of people passing off the gamecube as a kids toy, without having played some of the titles on it. Ikaruga comes to mind, if you think that a 7 year old could rock that game, you're wrong. Is Hitman 2: Silent Assassin a childs game? Nope. The number of excellent adult titles on Gamecube are substantial, more games than I can afford anyway. And even without these less well known games, the Metroid Prime series are excellent games.

    If you think that Gamecube is a platform for kiddie titles, go blow someones head off and shred their body with an SMG in Hitman 2, and come back and apologize.

    Also, someone in this thread said that Nintendo should stick with what their good at, handhelds. This is ridiculous. Might I remind you that the NES and Super NES are still excellent consoles, especially the Super NES.

    That having been said, I also own a PSX and a Dreamcast, and will definitely be buying a Revolution.

    That having been said, I really with a metal slug collection would come out for gamecube or revolution with all the games included.
    • Because he's new. Zonk comes from a slashdot-clone fan-site of MMOs. Slashdot needed or wanted a game section, and here be Zonk with his slash site. What a perfect fit... Most MMO gamers are fairly new to the scene, so he fits right in with the magazine crowd. He is, in effect, precisely what /. wanted. A modern game-reviewer type. The problem being that /. is where you can find most of the people who grew up on and/or still carry a fondness for nintendo. He'll figure that out eventually and skew hi
    • Geez, the article has nothing to do with that. Why do you feel the need to defend Nintendo when that isn't even brought up...nor are you directly replying to any comment. Seriously, this should be modded offtopic. Really, just enjoy Nintendo games. You aren't going to change anyone's mind if they think it is for kids and I don't even really understand why you would try. You really come off as insecure being so defensive for no reason.
    • While I'm not quite sure the article mentions it being solely a kiddie system unless I missed it, I agree with you. I think a big part of the problem is that you get the people working in video game stores telling everyone it's a kiddie system. The other night I was in EB and a mother(obviously new to the video game scene) was trying to figure out what to buy her 8 year old son for his birthday. The sales person was telling her that if she and her husband had no intent of playing it, a Gamecube; however,
  • This artical is nothing but a long drawn-out explination as to why nintendo is going downhill, I can sum it up in a sentence:

    "Nintendo had to be different and in being so dug it's own grave."

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