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Games Entertainment

Rumour Control on the Revolution Controller 83

Posted by Zonk from the what's-it-going-to-be-then-eh dept.
Gamespot's excellent Rumor Control column this week has some weighty topics to consider. Specifically, they take on the rumor floating around that the revolution in the Revolution's controller will be 'tilt resistance'. From the article: "When Nintendo intimated that the truly revolutionary aspect of its next-generation consoles was in its controller, rumors began to fly fast and furiously. One of the very first was that it would incorporate gyroscopes, which would allow players to control games via physical movement of the controller. Later rumors said the controller would sport everything from a touch screen, which would allow for configurable virtual buttons, to there not being any controller at all--just a visor and floor-mounted motion sensor." Their verdict? We're going to have to wait and see what Iwata has to say at the TGS. Other topics covered this week include Nintencats and Killzone 2.
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Rumour Control on the Revolution Controller More

Rumour Control on the Revolution Controller

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  • The M$ sidewinder freestyle pro already has tilt control. That came out ages ago. And the tilt thing is overrated.

    Just buy this controller and try the tilt feature at home. You'll go back to the control pad after a week tops.

    • Re:Tilt has been done (Score:2, Insightful)

      by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
      They'd implement a much better tilt detector. Remember how wireless controllers sucked and Nintendo came out with the Wavebird?

    • Re:Tilt has been done (Score:4, Informative)

      by DavidTC ( 10147 ) <slas45dxsvadiv D ... neverbox DOT com> on Saturday August 27, 2005 @02:53PM (#13417079) Homepage
      RTFA.

      It's not a tilt detector, it's a tilt inhibitor, specifically, gyroscopes.

      In fact, if the gryoscopes can be rotated, it could easily be something that tries to tilt the controller out of your hand.

      At least, that's the rumor.

      • Re:Tilt has been done (Score:3, Informative)

        by pnice ( 753704 )
        That's what I was getting out of it as well. Like when you hold a spinning gyroscope and you turn your hand it pulls your hand and puts force against it. That could be pretty cool if done correctly.
        • Especially if they combined it with a tilt detector.

          You want to steer around that corner? You not only have to push 'left', but you have to push on the right side of the controller to keep it level, or left doesn't count as much.

          Tilt 'control' is pretty dumb, but 'you must fight the added tilt' is actually a pretty cool idea, or at least sounds like it.

      • Wouldn't a spinning gyroscope in that kind application kind kill your batteries after a short while? Nintendo has (I believe) announced that all their Revolution controllers are going to be wireless.
        • Yeah, that's what I'm not quite believing about this story.

          I can imagine motors that spin up and don't use much power past that. However, while I'm no expert on motion, I would suspect that generating a tilt would suck power.

      • In fact, if the gryoscopes can be rotated, it could easily be something that tries to tilt the controller out of your hand.


        ...something to make me drop the controller even more than I already do.
        Maybe they're going to try to make a profit on the replacement controller market this time around?

    • But only one game was build specificly to take advantage of the tilt control. And I don't think it's a question of going back to the control pad/stick, it is about using tilt in addition to the standard contols.

  • Gyroscopes are not the answer (Score:5, Insightful)

    by -kertrats- ( 718219 ) on Saturday August 27, 2005 @02:26PM (#13416943) Journal
    Have you ever tried to hold a controller perfectly flat, especially while playing a multiplayer game? It's ridiculous and not any fun to do. Nintendo knows what they're doing, and they'll know that gyroscopes, except in special cases (the portable games that incorporate them, I believe there are Yoshi and Kirby games for DS and GBA, respectively, that do it, but they do it well. I doubt that possible on a controller.
    • You won't have to hold it perfectly flat all the time, you'll move it around to control the game.
    • Compiler error much. I'm sorry, but I tried real hard to understand that, and my brain now hurts, I think you were saying that it's hard to keep a controller flat and that nintendo knows that it will be hard to implement a tilt sensor properly. But then that parenthesis never got closed.
    • WarioWare: Twisted comes with a gyroscopic control/rumble pack unit attached to the cart, and it works very well. The gyroscope recalibrates at the beginning of every minigame, so changing the way you hold the controller won't screw you up. You don't even need to tell it if you're playing on a GBA or a DS (right side up or upside down). The gyroscope is very sensitive even to small movements, which means that games with very exact tilt controls are playable, although they take a LOT of concentration.

  • Stop the madness! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Seumas ( 6865 ) * on Saturday August 27, 2005 @02:30PM (#13416957)
    While your mom probably loves it, I do not want a vibrating controller. I do not want force feedback in a *handheld* controller. I do not want a controller the size of a watermelon. I do not want a controller with 400 buttons. I do not want a controller that eats batteries like Naudia Nyce with a plate full of semen. I do not want a controller that breaks after two weeks. I do not want a controller that will make me want to chop off my hands after a few hours.

    Give me a light, reasonably sized, fairly simple, ergonomically designed controller and do something else with your time besides trying to develop stupid whiz-bangs that nobody wants.
    • Lots of people didn't know they wanted a dual-screen handheld until after Nintendo came out with the DS. How about holding off on the criticism until we actually see what this is and what it feels like?
      • Lots of people didn't know they wanted a dual-screen handheld until after Nintendo came out with the DS.

        I can't tell if this is sarcasm.
        • Heh. I meant it to be serious; lots of people really like the DS. Then again, I can certainly see where you're coming from. :-)
          • My understanding of the DS is that there are few - if any at all - games that actually take advantage of the second screen as anything more than a gimick. Like in Nintendogs, it keeps track of the date and time. And in other games, it shows the sky. And... well... that seems to be about it.
            • The only game that really needs it(besides some mini-games) is Metroid. I don't own a DS, but I have played a couple of games.

              One screen that is a little bit taller 256 x 224 instead of 256x192 would allow easier SNES and N64 ports. Throw in one analog stick, and I think you'd have a better overall package. It would probably be cheaper and have a longer lasting battery.
              • That'll be the GBA2. Nintendo specifically said they are planning on a new GBA and that the DS wasn't it. I'm hoping for something like what you described... a 3" LCD with standard NTSC resolution and a N64 on a chip inside. Give it some extra RAM (or at least what the N64 had with the expansion pack), a better audio subsystem, and a decent control layout with an analog stick (I'd like to see them use the GC layout personally) along with a built in SNES, GBA, and NES emulator and wireless integration with
                • I wouldn't be so quick to say the N64 is a "well-understood" system. I've read some developer blogs recently that indicate the DS is already using chips based directly on the N64, and that this actually makes the machine much more difficult to work with. Google around and I'm sure you'll find the blog I'm talking about.
              • From what I understand, most TVs cut some of the top and bottom pixels off when displaying SNES games, so the average consumer would only see about 192 vertical pixels anyway. The DS would make a very good portable NES/SNES player if the games+emulator were downloadable from the Revolution.

                The N64, on the other hand, outputted at 320x240, so a single DS screen is too small for that. Also, there's no way the current DS hardware could emulate an N64 at anywhere near full speed. Mario 64 was a port, which r
                • The N64 calculated at 256 x 224. But it doesn't matter as much with 3d games, since they tend to be easily scalable. And if they make an SNES port, they'll release it for the GBA anyway. I played the GBA Donky Kong Country port, and I thought it looked pretty bad when compared to the original.

              • Advance Wars uses the second screen in the Dual Screen battles. In the touch screen it shows the first front, while in the top screen is the second front which is usually controlled by the computer. If not in a dual screen battle then the top screen shows the info on the terrain or selected unit.
    • Here you go [nintendo.com]. No force feedback, small, ergonomic, and lasts over 100 hours.
      Oh yeah, and I've dropped mine plenty of times and it still works great.
    • This is what Nintendo has said they're trying to do, actually.

      Iwata and Miyamoto feel that the current controllers have gotten too complex, with too many buttons and counterintuitive interfaces. They want to make something that's simpler and that anyone can pick up and use easily.

      Also, Nintendo's Wavebird controllers are the best wireless controllers I've ever seen. The batteries last for months or years, they're light and comfortable to hold, and they're very sturdy.

  • bleh (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ImTheDarkcyde ( 759406 )
    well it's not like rumor control seldom carries an article on the revolution controller..
     
    you know, just every week
     
    but i'd love to get my hands on nintencats
  • Im still waiting Nintenrats

  • haha memories (Score:4, Funny)

    by CrazyJim1 ( 809850 ) on Saturday August 27, 2005 @03:16PM (#13417199) Journal
    I remember watching 7 year olds play Super Mario Bros, they'd slowly move the controller to the right of their body and eventually they'd hit the limit of their arms and start going up and behind their head. If they're towards the end of the first stage they're playing with the controller behind their neck.

    • Re:haha memories (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Krakhan ( 784021 )
      Hehe, yes, memories indeed. That also reminds me of other little quirks that me and some friends would do while playing some of the games, such as raising the controller as the character was jumping, as if to give him some assistance with his grand leap, or smashing the buttons harder (more out of anger really) in order to make that punch/fireball/etc. more painful.

  • Most people have the wrong idea (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 27, 2005 @03:48PM (#13417368)
    I think the second that Nintendo mentioned that there was going to be a revolution people went way to far with their imagination; I think that after looking at previous controllers the following are safe bets:

    1) The Revolution controler will have an analog stick on the left side of the controller to be used for navigation.

    2) The Revolution controler will have two shoulder buttons, both will probably be analog with digital clicks underneith.

    3) The Revolution controler will have four face butons, probably in an unconventional configuration; they could possibly be analog with digital clicks underneith.

    4) The Revolution Controler will probably not have either a microphone nor speakers in it; it will probably have a headset for online play (which may be used to handle voice control in certain games though)

    5) Touch screens, Magnetic thingimagigs, and whatnot are probably too expensive to add to a controller (Nintendo, unlike Microsoft, will probably still try to sell it in the $30 range)

    6) The z button is probably history.

    The reasoning behind these assumptions is that Nintendo will be providing a controller which is still capable of playing the majority of games and comes at a reasonably low price point.

    If you noticed I excluded both the D-Pad and the C-Stick in my list; of all existing features of a controler I think that these two are the most likely to be overhauled. I suspect that a track ball or some other 'mouse replacement' could be used in place of the c-stick because Nintendo believes that it's primary purpose is camera control and a mouse is far superior to a joystick in this aspect.

    Giroscopes may still be a feature of the controller, but I suspect that they would not be the main feature.
    • Now if you consider that you can just shove a gamecube game in the console and play the game, your idea of removing the z button and replacing the D-pad and C-stick with a trackball seems very unlikely. You need the D-pad and C-stick to play Metroid Prime.
      I think it would be more likely that the new controller is just a lump of play-doh and a bunch of buttons & sticks that you can shape into any controller you want.
      OK, not really, but it would be fun. The game needs two sticks and a shoulder button? jus
      • Actually, to play Gamecube games on the Revolution, you just plug in a Gamecube controller—the Revolution comes with 4 Gamecube peripheral sockets, as well as 2 memory card slots, so you'd use the same Gamecube controllers and memory cards you do now.

        ---

        I'll agree with the grandparent that the Z button and D-pad are probably history (the Z button being a relic from N64 days, and the D-pad being from NES days). A trackball-like device would be nice, but prone to getting gunked up. On the plus side, you

  • I've seen the Revolution Controller for Nintendo's console [gamebiz.com.au], and it has nothing to do with tilt sensitivity or tilt resistance.











    Granted, it's a Dance Dance Revolution controller, but still...

  • Personally I find it hard to believe that Nintendo, whatever they may have claimed about the controllers being revolutionary, would ever deviate from a standard design. What Nintendo controllers have always had for me is a comfortable, convenient and ergonomic design. The N64 missed slightly on these criteria but nevermind. When it comes down to it, the usual method is to have a basic controller which work steadily and reliably and responds well etc. and then if you want to do something different you develo
    • >>>Perhaps Nintendo have merely made wireless controllers with a good response time. That would be nice.

      That would be a wavebird.

      I do think that it's probably something simple and user-friendly, though I can't see something that would be simple yet be hailed as their major inovation. Oh well, we'll see it soon enough. I hope to be surprised.
      • I like the Wavebird but something like a 3ms delay (or however much it is) can be annoying in games like Super Monkey Ball.

        As I said I imagine a simple design but a surprise would be a nice thing. A gentle reminder perhaps that there are new things under the sun.

        • Re:A Simpler Vision. (Score:2, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          I don't think you've ever used a wavebird. I play F-Zero with those things and have barely ever noticed any delays, and I'm sure that game requires a much quicker reaction rate than super monkey ball.
        • I don't know what the delay on the Wavebird is, either, but 3ms would not be remotely noticeable. A game running at 60 fps (which is double the refresh rate of most games) only updates the screen every 17ms, so the lag would need to be more than that to even miss a single frame of response.

          Maybe you're getting interference from somewhere. Everyone I've talked to about this hasn't noticed any lag whatsoever, and nearly every professional review says the same thing.

  • Nintencats (Score:5, Funny)

    by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Saturday August 27, 2005 @06:17PM (#13418111) Journal
    Nintencats... that'd be an easy game to develop. Just make a virtual cat that ignores ALL user input and does whatever the fuck it wants.

    • Re:Nintencats (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yeah, I don't get why some people love having cats as pets so much.

      They're useless and worthless and, unlike dogs, don't give a fuck about you! ...and yet, I post this as an AC so all of the pussies here...er...I mean cat lovers (cats can't type), don't cut my balls off!
      • Most of what you said is exactly why people do like cats. They don't give one fuck about you, they don't demand constant attention, and if you forget to feed them they'll find a way to sneak outside and kill their own food.
    • They've already made this.

      It's called "Hey You Pikachu".

  • One of the very first was that it would incorporate gyroscopes, which would allow players to control games via physical movement of the controller. Later rumors said the controller would sport everything from a touch screen, which would allow for configurable virtual buttons, to there not being any controller at all--just a visor and floor-mounted motion sensor."

    One button for each of the four fingers for forward, backward, slide left, and slide right. The Thresh configuration.

    I don't care how many touch

  • Things to consider (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Saturday August 27, 2005 @06:38PM (#13418238) Homepage Journal
    There has been a lot of blablabla over the Revolution controller. There have also been a TON of fake images floating around of it. Here's a list of a few things that should be considered:

    1.) The price of controllers cannot skyrocket, so doodads like the touch screen are incredibly unlikely.

    2.) This controller will have to play most of Nintendo's library of games, so it's unlikely that the physical resemblance of this controller will be that different from previous incarnations. (i.e. screw the rumor that it's only a helmet.)

    3.) We've gotten hints that the revolutionary aspect is simple and has been done before, but hasn't really been used in games. I expect that the revolution won't be in the technology, but rather they mean that the way games are played will be different. (Much like the N64's analog stick really changed the playing field.)

    4.) Nintendo's really turned net friendly this time around. It is likely they want the Rev to have an interface that is net friendly so something like an OSK is possible.

    5.) Whatever it is, it's simple enough that Sony or Microsoft could throw it in at the last minute. So Nintendo's staying mum on it.

    With these details in mind, here are the rumors I think we should be paying attention to:

    - Somebody suggested once that the Rev controller would have an eye kinda like the light gun. Although I have reservations about this, it would be interesting to use your controller like a pointer. This would be fairly cheap to do and it would work. Though I do worry that these controllers would only work on CRT TVs. It wouldn't be a death blow, but this would be the last generation Nintendo would be able to pull this off.

    - There has been a LOT of talk about gyros. I've also read a few comments already suggesting that gyros/tilt sensors/etc are a gimmick. To that I say: Bullshit. A couple of years ago I got to work with a gyro sensor. (I think it was from Intersense, but unfortunately I do not recall too clearly.) It was very good at detecting the orientation of the sensor. It would have been very possible to play a game like Quake with this sensor. My only reservation about this rumor is that I was under the impression these sensors were expensive. But, since I do not know that for sure, it still remains (in my mind) within the realm of possibility. I'd say this one's pretty likely. This fits the 'Revolutionary' bit as well as the 'not used much in games' bit.

    - Gyro inhibitor: This is a fairly new rumor, and sadly I haven't kept up on it. I do remember a supposed 'leaked source' that claimed this device would cause the controlller to provide resistance if you tried to move it. I have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, it seems to fit Nintendo's fancy. Afterall, it's like a fancier version of the Rumble Pak. On the other hand, can they really fit something like this into a controller, power it, and make it useful? If anybody has any info on this sort of technology, I'd be really intrigued to hear it. If it works,though, it'd be a neat addition to the gyro.

    - Touch interface. Note, I did not say touch SCREEN interface. Rather, like those glide point pads used commonly on laptops. There have been rumors that the handles on the controller are touch sensitive. You can squeeze or rub them somehow to interact with the game. I have to admit, I have trouble picturing this. On the other hand, imagine a small one of these things taking the place of the smaller analog stick on the GameCube controller. That would be a simple mouse-like interface that would make the OSK idea work and it could potentially even control the camera. It fits with the 'been done before, but not really for games' bit, but I would scratch my head if Nintendo called that revolutionary. But if they do manage to make the handles work like I read... well maybe.

    - I read somewhere that the controller can get hot. That's right, it heats up. Intentionally, not like a Toshiba laptop heats up. Maybe my imaginat
    • Especially considering:
      3.) We've gotten hints that the revolutionary aspect is simple and has been done before, but hasn't really been used in games.
      4.) Nintendo's really turned net friendly this time around. It is likely they want the Rev to have an interface that is net friendly so something like an OSK is possible.

      but also considering the other three axioms, I think I have a good guess: it's a keyboard. PC gamers have been telling the consolers for years that a keyboard's a superior interface for games -
      • OK. Here's [lik-sang.com] your controller. For those who don't follow the GC : this is a REAL controller, made for the game Phantasy Star Online. I don't think many people bought the controller, but it still exists.
    • The price of controllers cannot skyrocket, so doodads like the touch screen are incredibly unlikely.

      But consider:
      The DS is probably being sold at a profit, even at $130. The GBA was sold at a profit at $70. Guessing that the margins are about the same, and that many of the parts are the same, the DS-specific elements (wireless, extra screen, lights, touchscreen, ARM9, mic, battery) could be priced at $60. The touchscreen is probably the most expensive part of that, but still, we're not exactly talking ab
      • "I just want to say that I really, really hate the PS2 analog sticks compared to the Gamecube ones."

        I hate them for a different reason. If you push down on them, they act as another button. They're called 'L3' and 'R3'. That drove me nuts. GTA kept telling me to push the R3 button, and I couldn't find a button labeled that. The car I was driving would also honk while I was making extreme turns. Took me forever to work out what I was doing. Even after knowing about them, I never really did get to whe
        • More annoying than the honking was when you were trying to run away from people shooting at you, and instead crouched down in the middle of the street.

          The fetal position does not protect you from bullets, contrary to conventional wisdom.
        • I can understand your frustration with the L3 and R3 buttons, but personally I've never had a problem with them. In fact, I've found them downright useful for zooming in games like Medal of Honor, for example.

          I guess its because I always had a light touch when it comes to handheld controllers. Leads to less hand strain, that's for sure.
        • Ah, I've had that problem too, in playing Katamari Damacy. There's a "charge" move that's all but essential to getting super-good scores/times, where you alternate the two analog sticks as fast as you can, up/down, down/up, up/down, down/up, to build up power for a sudden boose of speed. The faster you do it, the stronger the boost. Well it's very easy to accidently press *in* on both sticks while doing this, which activates the sudden-turn-around move, meaning your charge gets sent exactly 180 degrees A
    • 2.) This controller will have to play most of Nintendo's library of games, so it's unlikely that the physical resemblance of this controller will be that different from previous incarnations. (i.e. screw the rumor that it's only a helmet.)

      the revolution has gamecube ports for the gamecube controller, which to the best of my knowledge can play any game back to the NES

      thats assuming a nintendo neophyte will have a revolution, but will not have a gamecube controller to play zelda:a link to the past on, but
  • Maybe Nintendo will go the full nine yards and release the greatest control system ever with the Rev. Of course, the box would have to be pretty big to fit a keyboard and mouse...
    • You know what? That gets funnier every time I hear. I know when I'm playing Ninja Gaiden, Mario, Zelda, Dead or Alive, Crimson Skies or SSX3 I'm always thinking about how much better it would be if I had a mouse and keyboard.
      • Zelda would work with the M&K interface, Mario to a certain degree as well (at least the camera would be more easily controllable). Flying a plane or spaceship with a mouse is acceptable but not great. I don't know about DoA but most fighting games are meant for arcade controls, usually digital and a set of buttons you press with your fingers instead of your thumb. The keyboard is definitely better for those games than the gamepad.

        Obviously the M&K combo won't work with all games but some traditiona
    • I find it hard to believe that the "greatest control system ever" is an array of keys that's been around since the 1800s and a 40-year-old tool for navigating graphical interfaces.

      It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to come up with a tool that's simpler, more intuitive, and less restricting than a keyboard and mouse. Most PC "elitists" that proclaim the superiority of the keyboard/mouse are just bitter because either they can't figure out how to use an analog stick or they can't play their favorite g
      • It is better for RTSes, RPGs, and FPSs. It doesn't work as well for most action or platforming games.
        • It works better for platformers provided they let you control the camera freely (the greatest problem with many Ubisoft games). No need for the directions the analog stick can give when you can just line up the camera with your intended jump at a moment's notice. Movement speeds can be sufficiently emulated with modifier keys (shift for walk, for example) and very few games require adjustable speed of movement anyway, often it's just "move no faster than this to remain stealthy" which is much nicer when you
    • Personally, I like mouse & gamepad for FPS games now. Mouse in right hand, left half of gamepad in left hand. I have the mouse for aiming, shooting, and reloading, an analog stick for moving (far more natural and easy than the WASD thing), a d-pad for changing weapons/etc, a click thing on the analog stick for jumping, and two shoulder buttons for crouch and, say, a lean modifier. Works wonders. Plus, the gamepad works far better for most things other than FPS games and clicky RPGs... such as Zombie

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