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Role Playing (Games) Software

Gavin Carter Discusses Elder Scrolls 185

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the verbose-developers dept.
Conspiracy_Of_Doves writes to tell us Brett Thomas over at Bit-Tech recently interviewed Elder Scrolls producer, Gavin Carter. From the article: "The size, scope and sheer graphical grunt required for Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion requires gigahertz of processing power to run, good bandwidth to update and expand, and gigabytes of hard disk space to store. Things that a console didn't really have...until now." The interview takes a look at the development with respect to the two different platforms, PC and Xbox 360.
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Gavin Carter Discusses Elder Scrolls More

Gavin Carter Discusses Elder Scrolls

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  • so no xbox 360 core? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by El_Muerte_TDS ( 592157 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @03:44PM (#13991913) Homepage
    gigabytes of hard disk space to store
    XBox 360 core dosn't have gigbytes of disk space.
    • Some of the packages do: Xbox 360 info [wikipedia.org].
       
      And interestingly, the original did as well (8 Gb hard drive, i believe).
      • Uh, there is a difference between the XBox 360CORE which the grandparent mentioned and the full blown system. You obviously didn't read the article you linked to.....
        • Here's some food for thought:

          1) I did read the article I linked to.
          2) I am aware of the core system and it's specifications
          3) I was not attempting to disagree with the great-grandparent post, but merely amending it with all the relevent information.

          It's very likely that Bethesda software will simply require people to have a hard drive. Several xbox 360 critics say the core system is pretty much useless. Either you have the money to buy the silver, or you just don't have enough money at all.
          • It's very likely that Bethesda software will simply require people to have a hard drive. Several xbox 360 critics say the core system is pretty much useless.
            Well I sure hope that isn't true, or there are going to be a lot of sad kids and ticked off parents on Christmas morning.

            Whose bright idea was it to fragment a game console into sublevels?

            • Whose bright idea was it to fragment a game console into sublevels?

              The same company that's selling about 37 different, ambiguously-named versions of its next operating system.

              I really think the gaming industry is headed for another crash. I was pretty young during the original one, but I remember a few things that seem suspiciously familiar now.

              Coleco had at least three expansion modules for the Colecovision, none of which ever got used except the Atari 2600 "adaptor" that cost as much as a standalone 2600.
          • And it is equally well known that for consoles, the dev's can only program for the core system. They can not program for a niche; the publishers just won't give 'em the money. Go look on gamasutra, gamebindustry.biz etc. Bethesda won't require a HD...hardly any gamedev will....therefore, the x360 just as well might not have a HD.

    • Re:so no xbox 360 core? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by wbren ( 682133 )
      I don't know why the parent was modded +4 Funny, since that's a good point. What will people do if they bought the core version of the 360? Or am I just missing the joke?
      • If they about the core system, then they do not deserve to play. Core-Tard!

        http://www.cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20050914 [cad-comic.com]

      • Re:so no xbox 360 core? (Score:2, Informative)

        by dbug78 ( 151961 )
        Probably because there's no +4 Ignorant. The game doesn't need to write gigs of data, only to read. DVD-9 will fill that need for the x360 just fine.

        I realize the article does specifically say "hard drive" space, but I figured everyone here knew better than to take these interviewers too literally.
        • But what about new content published on XBOX Live? What about bug fixes? It seems to me that they would need somewhere to put all that stuff... Or maybe not. Either way I think I killed that "joke".
          • Little thing called a memory card.
          • People who buy Xbox games don't get bug fixes.

            What was good enough to ship is what you'll have to live with forever. One of the main pluses of buying the PC version of Oblivion is that (hopefully) the most agregious bugs will be fixed by the time the first expansion rolls around. That's basically the way Morrowind played out and the XBox people just had to do a lot of stupid shit [beyond3d.com] to work around bugs and broken quests.

          • Seeing as how so many tout the stat that only around 10 percent of Xbox owners are on Live, I'd say that downloadable content didn't really wind up being all that much of a thing. A bit before it's time, perhaps.

      • If you find that you want to add content then you can buy a HDD after you buy the core system as well. The final cost is the same as buying the big box from the start (but you won't get the other goodies in the big box like wireless controller and advanced AV pack).
    • He's just referring to the size of the content in a PC context (ie a hard disk). It's been confirmed for a while to work on the core X360 system.

  • On PC, though... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by BronxBomber ( 633404 )
    To me this game begs to be played on PC. With the HDR lighting its going to blow the 360 version out of the water, along with some other shading/lighting effects the 360 wont have..

    And the TESCS - thats just a must have. I made the mistake of playing this on Xbox first, and while it rawked, I wish I could have modded it. It would have made an already ridiculously deep game even better. I nearly bought it twice so I could mess with the TESCS, but I got into WoW instead.

    • I'm sorry, but you are just wrong in every point. The 360 supports pixel shader models and lighting systems that don't exist in PC hardware yet.
      • AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHahahghahahahhahaha....

        Name one. Just one. Don't post here unless you know what you're talking about. Now go tell everyone how good your daddy's job is.
        • He probably means unified shader model which is used on X360. Ie vertex and fragment shaders run on the same processors and this allows more freedom for the developer. (On a GPU for PCs there is currently a part dedicated to execute vertex shaders and one part for fragment shaders. Typically it can handle more fragment shaders than vertex shaders at the same time.)

          Besides that there is the point that the X360 GPU sits right on the northbridge which gives it priority access to main memory. Instead of at the

    • Re:On PC, though... (Score:5, Informative)

      by MightyPez ( 734706 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:06PM (#13992175)
      Why exactly won't the XBox 360 have these lighting features? The GPU in the 360 is a next generation video card made by ATI, like nothing on the market right now. Do you have some insider knowledge that it won't have abilities of current DirectX 9 video cards?
      • But within one year (max two) of XBOX 360 release, newer and better video cards will be available for the PC. The PC of 2007 will be much more powerful than the XBOX 360.
    • My kids are both addicted to Morrowind and are hanging out for Oblivion. At 7 and 10 you'd think they were a bit young, but the 7-year-old created several homebrew dungeons and buildings in the TES construction kit, and the last I saw she was trying to apply a trader's NPC script to a wolf.

      Alas, Daggerfall had them rolling about laughing at the graphics, especially the Killer Rat in the first dungeon. To think I spent more hours on DF than MW - and almost enjoyed it more. If it weren't for the bugs I'd st
      • There's a command for the "admin" console called (i think) AddTopic. I've used it a couple times to resolve quest-related problems where the topic you need to talk to someone about isn't available. Just open the dialog screen on them, hit ~ to bring up the console, and do AddTopic [topic you're missing].

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @03:57PM (#13992073)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:I got old too soon (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gulthek ( 12570 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:18PM (#13992272) Homepage Journal
      Holy Avatar, you're last RPG fling was Ultima 9? I'm so sorry.

      My brother and I actually downgraded our gaming machine from a modern (at the time) video card to two 3DFx cards in SLI (it was designed for Glide) so we could play U9 without it crashing every 5 minutes. Then it only crashed every 20 minutes.

      Not to mention being so incredibly awful that it actually made us yearn for the days of cheap sprite graphics and dungeon running in Ultima 5/6/7. Or even Ultima 4. Almost Ultima 3. Not "Avatars in Space" Ultima 2, and not "Glorified Nethack" Ultima though. And I don't think anything will ever make me yearn for the spell casting atrocity of Ultima 8 (and the sad fall of Dupre).
      • I'm the guy who liked U8.

        There I said it.
        • I liked it in theory. The tale of the Avatar who must break every one of the virtues to escape is quite interesting. Does it show that the Guardian is more powerful than the Avatar and can bend him to his will? Does it imply that the virtues are 'optional' and can be superceded for a higher purpose (the ends vs. the means)? Or does it mean that even the Avatar is, after all, a flawed human and the virtues are ideal goals but unattainable in the real world?

          Very very cool. Unfortunately the implementation of
    • Yup, it is a real problem.

          I console myself with the thought of how amazingly good the games will be when I retire and can start to enjoy things like that again.

          Plus even if I can't afford to play it full time, I'll be damned if I'm not going to wander around in Oblivion just for the sake of enjoying whatever I can.

    • Re:I got old too soon (Score:5, Funny)

      by TrappedByMyself ( 861094 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @06:09PM (#13993365)
      You should try World of Warcraft. You can play at a leisurely pace and not have to worry about getting sucked in.
      Definitely the game for RPG fans with busy lives.
    • I guess I'm too old to play these games now.

      Jeez, I'm over 40 now & I played Morrowind to DEATH. Completed Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale 1&2 (including all the addons)

      You're just not trying hard enough ;)

  • One other thing (Score:5, Informative)

    by BronxBomber ( 633404 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:00PM (#13992100)
    If you want to try the one that started it all, go here [elderscrolls.com]. Its free. Windoze only and you need DOSBox.
    • DOSbox IS multiplatform. It runs very smoothly on linux etc.
      • I wasnt referring to DOSBox as Windows only. I was referring to the Arena executable.
        • DOSBox is a cross-platform emulator that uses SDL for most of its I/O. Windows and Linux are officially supported, but as it is open-source, there are many other ports floating around as well.
        • Oops, misread your post. Arena is a DOS game and thus neither requires nor can be expected to run particularly well under Windows. The link you mentioned may be for a Windows-based self-extracting archive or installer, however.

          The bottom line is that I recommend running it under DOSBox. Both the floppy and CD-ROM versions run fine under the latest CVS (the CD-ROM version has problems in DOSBox 0.63 and may even be unplayable even with tricks)
    • Minimum system requirements:
      386/25 MHZ, DOS 5.0, 4MB RAM, 25MB HD Space, VGA graphics card, Mouse, Soundcard (Ensoniq, Aria, Roland, SoundBlaster, Ultrasound).

      Looks more like DOS than Windows to me. DOSBox [sourceforge.net] may eventually (as in DNF eventually) have [decent] Windows support, but it's not there yet.

  • 2q 2006 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by selfabuse ( 681350 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:09PM (#13992198)
    Wonder how Microsoft feels about them knocking the release date back another 6 months. I was at the local EBGames recently, and they were mentioning how many people had already called to cancel their xbox360 preorders - and this was just a day or two after the delay was "discovered". I say discovered, because the publisher, Take 2, mentioned it on their financial statement, but it took a week and >45 200 post topics on the elder scrolls forum to choke a response out of Bethesda. Even then, their response was to sliently change the release date in the FAQ. Just in the past day or so the PR guy made a statement, but I think the damage has already been done. Knocking it back another 6 months gives me time to save up for some new hardware to run the PC version instead of buying the 360 like I had planned.
  • Dude... "gigahertz" is not the plural of "gigahertz".

  • This title was the "System Seller" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by popo ( 107611 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:23PM (#13992314) Homepage

    Without Oblivion, XBOX 360 has no real "system seller".

    No Halo? no Oblivion? Perfect Dark Zero could be cool, but I don't
    see nearly the same level of excitement for it.

    I think this is going to have a huge impact on the bottom line
    for initial Xbox sales.

    I don't know about everyone else here, but for me the first Xbox
    was about Halo and Morrowind.

    • Project Gotham Racing 3 is the "system seller". That, and possibly Call of Duty 2, though to a lesser degree (the graphics in it are too current-generation for most people's tastes).
    • You've forgotten about PGR3, Kameo, Condemned, COD2, and DOA4. All of these titles are "system sellers" for their genre. PD0 is going to be a lame game; I wouldn't discrace the other good titles available on launch by mentioning it.
    • XBox? I don't need no stinking console, these types of games are much more fun played close up to the screen, using a keyboard and a mouse. At least, they are now I'm totally used to doing it that way. Give me a PC anyday.

      On another topic, my experience with Morrowind was rather depressing. I started out playing it hoping for an improvement on TES2. At first, I thought I'd got it - it certainly improved on the graphics side. But I'd say the gameplay is *worse*. The fighting system is clunky and far t

  • That's nothing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phasm42 ( 588479 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:27PM (#13992356)
    Personally, I lost count at 175 hours in the current game, Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind. Think about that for a second: that's 2 hours after work every day for 3 full months.
    Apparently this guy has never talked to an Evercrack fiend.
    • Or any hardcore gamer. I remember playing old school MUDs with guys whose "time played" was measured in months. My own time played in that particular game was a little more than two weeks, unsurpassed until lately when my Warcrack addiction passed the three week barrier.
    • What a lot of people seem to miss is that ES3:M was single-player only. It's amazing that it can rival "keep addicted" MMORPGS in playtime! (It felt more MMO to me while playing than WoW ever did, too.)
    • Lets see, in the last year I've racked up 30 days of /played in WoW (thats, oh, about two hours a night, averaged with some nights being none and some Saturdays being game-sessions) and my guild describes me as "casual".

  • bugs (Score:3, Funny)

    by Erpo ( 237853 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:37PM (#13992487)
    good bandwidth to update and expand

    Translation: We're really looking forward to releasing an unfinished game and (perhaps) patching the bugs as you find them.

  • Gavin Carter: Oblivion will absolutely benefit from a multi-processor or multi-core PC architecture. These improvements have largely been driven by our optimizations for the Xbox 360 hardware. We have built a dynamic thread management system that manages processor load by our specific direction and by priorities. Portions of physics, AI, loading, audio, and rendering tasks can all be moved to different threads to keep the overall load balanced. The net result for the end user is a smoother experience.

    I

    • I believe it's mentioned in one of the discussions in those articles you linked but the fundamental problem is that you have one set of data - the game state, and a bunch of threads that work on this. In the end everything, user input, AI, physics and game rules will affect the game state. And some threads like graphics and sound read from this in order to find out what to show/play.

      Now the problem is that you need to ensure that you can get a static view of the world when you begin a new iteration. So that

  • Man, that Xbox 360 must be cool (Score:4, Funny)

    by dghcasp ( 459766 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @06:07PM (#13993350)
    I haven't followed all this stuff about the new Xbox, but I read this article because a cow-orker of mine has been raving about the Elder Scrolls series.

    From TFA:

    The Xbox 360 poses some unique challenges in the fact that it's half console, half PC, yet a generation above either of them in their current form.

    Man, a generation above current PC's! So what has it got?

    1. A Hexium processor instead of a Pentium processor?
    2. A 128 bit operating system?
    3. More than 64 Gb of memory?
    4. 4000x3000 graphics? (run out through your 720x480 TV?)
    5. Terabyte ethernet?
    6. DTS2 audio with 18 channels at 192Kb/s per channel?
    7. A quantum processor?
    8. ...

    or is this standard journalists who don't understand quoting people who don't understand?

    • I'll give you credit for the funny tone, but your note at the end makes your post a serious one in terms of your overall point, so I'll respond that way...

      How many people actually have multiple cores (be they in single-processor or multi-processure units) in their home desktops? Given the prices, and the timeline in terms of availability, of dual-core CPUs right now, I'd figure it's not that many. How many of those people have more than 512MB of memory? Again, probably much fewer than you'd think when
  • But did they fix the boring? I tried ES3, and can't recommend it. It is not a role playing game in the slightest bit. The world is way too static. You kill a leader of some faction and what happens? Do others sweep in to take advantage of the chaos? Do you get recognized as some great/horrible person by random folks? No, nothing. The world stays essentially the same. You kill a freaking _god_ and are recognized by another god and what happens? Nothing.. you're still the same unremarked upon person going aro
    • That's why I hated Daggerfall. For all the open-endedness and dozens of differently named NPCs, it felt incredibly lifeless and lonely. There were essentially two NPCs in the game: the randomly generated walking signpost and the static quest bulletin board.

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