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Salon On The Anti-Gaming CSI Episode 77

Posted by Zonk from the we-also-kill-goats-in-alleys dept.
On Monday we mentioned an upcoming CSI episode using GTA as a prop in a tale of violent gamers on a murder-spree. Well, via Gamepolitics, Salon has a feature on the episode in all its game-hating glory. From the Salon piece: "In conjunction with the venom and disgust that infuses the word 'gamer' when it's spoken by star David Caruso, aka 'Horatio Crane,' it is made clear... that people who play games are but one step removed from pedophiles or suicide bombers in the social hierarchy of evil."
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Salon On The Anti-Gaming CSI Episode More

Salon On The Anti-Gaming CSI Episode

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  • What a riot.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cyberglich ( 525256 ) * on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @04:37PM (#14103658)
    I love CSI but this one was so bad it was funny watching the guy play the game. What they never herd of gamefaqs.com?
    • Yeah, my wife and I were both saying 1) Internet, 2) Buy the Guide. Would have shortened the episode by half an hour though.
      • Surely you know that the Internet is only for child pornographers and terrorists plotting destruction via email.

        Hasn't the Dept. of Homeland Security taught you anything?

  • Why should we care? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by readin ( 838620 )
    Getting infuriated by bad TV is a spectacularly useless kind of rage, an exercise in futility akin to bemoaning the badness of "Star Wars'" romance scenes or the stupidity of intelligent design advocates. It's always better to just change the channel.

    But getting mad about bad TV depictions of video game culture takes such pointlessness to truly stratospheric heights of inanity.

    He's right you know. So why are we here? If seeing stuff on a TV screen influences your behavior, then they're right that vi

    • Re:Why should we care? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If seeing stuff on a TV screen influences your behavior

      I've never really questioned that. My little brother would watch some power ranger or ninja turtle junk on tv then come and try to "ninja kick" me. No, what I question is whether what we see and do in game worlds trains us for violence in the real world.

      Does pressing WASD over and over while pointing a gun using a mouse and clicking to fire anything from blobs of slime to nuclear warheads actually teach anyone how to kill anything? Can a mal-adjusted

      • Re:Why should we care? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Patrik_AKA_RedX ( 624423 ) on Thursday November 24, 2005 @09:19AM (#14107389) Journal
        I've played quite a lot 3D shooters and some time ago, I got the opportunity to try out a simulator the police uses to train on using a handgun. This simulator has a screen on which a situation is played (in real video) and you use a gun fitted with an IR light. Now compared to a standard FPS the "levels" are quite easy. (only 5 bad guys and a hostage) But it's a whole different matter to use a "real" gun instead of a mouse pointer. And this simulator doesn't even have the recoil or the painfull noise that comes with firing a real gun.
        Not to mention that it's a real eye opener when the instructor points out you fired 8 rounds while the (real) gun holds only 6...

        Games don't train people to be better killers, if it was the army wouldn't waste so much money using real ammo for traing soldiers.
        • Games don't train people to be better killers, if it was the army wouldn't waste so much money using real ammo for traing soldiers.

          In less well-funded armies you don't get live ammunition for targeting practice because that's too expensive, you only get the simulator (with two or three live-ammo exercises thrown in).
        • ### Games don't train people to be better killers, if it was the army wouldn't waste so much money using real ammo for traing soldiers.

          Games don't train you to use a real gun, I agree on that, however I believe that they *do* help you to be a better killer. The thing is that a human normally won't shoot at another human, in many past wars that resulted in plenty of men never firing a single shoot[1]. These days the army does practice a lot to get away from that no-shooting-'reflex' and trains plenty of shoo
      • The answer to the last one is: easily, but their arm will probably be sore. The weight keeps a lot of the kick down. My question would be, could anyone fire one of those way-too-light titanium crap revolvers for the first time without having the gun fly out of their hands?

        That aside, I'm tired of heavy cartridges, and lately I've had a good (although overly expensive) time target shooting with FN's five-seven.

    • Re:Why should we care? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Krater76 ( 810350 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @05:15PM (#14103939) Journal
      ...then why do gamers care if gamers are depicted negatively on TV?

      The reason that gamers should care is because the TV show is saying that playing video games does influence behavior.

      You seem to be mistaking behavior (someone actually doing something) for image (the perception of someone doing something). This episode can influence the audience's image of gamers and strengthen the falsehood that games alter behavior. And although I don't personally think it could happen, the result could be lawsuits against game makers or sanctions against certain 'undesireable' game content. Lucky for us, CSI: Miami isn't the ratings hog that the original is.

      Ask Twisted Sister what they think of a negative image. Their 'We're Not Gonna Take It' doesn't have a single violent, sexual, or vulgar lyric in it yet was used in a Congressional hearing to promote explicit lyrics stickers on music. Dee Snider got chewed out by Al Gore just to be saved later by John Denver who trashed the sticker when he said that people mistake his 'Rocky Mountain High' song as a pot-smoking song.

      Image is all you have and once it's gone it's almost impossible to get back. Gamers should protect it whenever they get the chance.

    • Re:Why should we care? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Catnapster ( 531547 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @07:06PM (#14104680) Homepage
      It's all about context. Games can influence behavior; so can TV. Someone who, for some reason, doesn't understand that it's bad to mow down people with an automatic rifle may well be influenced by a video game to do so. Someone who has been normally socialized and understands that murder is bad will not be swayed by said video game.

      Similarly, someone who doesn't understand that gamers are generally civilized human beings like everyone else will be swayed by a TV show that (by my understanding) effectively uses "gamer" as a euphemism for "murderer." The difference here is that many people actually don't know much about gamers or gamer culture, and are likely to believe that gamers are murderers - and treat them as such.

      The key here is that influences on one's behavior or viewpoint are filtered through pre-existing knowledge first. If a source that is perceived as credible gives misinformation, and there is no pre-existing knowledge that contradicts it, the misinformation will take root because nothing suggests that it would be untrue. It's the same reason why Internet hoaxes last as long as they do.

      While I'm on the subject, I should point out that I do not consider it possible for games to turn the average kid into a murderer because (one) most kids don't treat games as a credible source of information, and (two) most kids have been properly socialized to know that the acts in the game are unacceptable in reality. In the absence of factor (one), the kid knows not to commit the acts anyway; in the absence of factor (two), the kid is as likely to be influenced by a violent movie, violent song, violent book, or violent scene in nature as the video game.
  • that children play games and anyone who wants to play a game must be doing it to get close to children to impose their evil desires on them.

  • Gamers are... (Score:5, Funny)

    by cyberbob2010 ( 312049 ) <cyberbob2010@techie.com> on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @04:43PM (#14103698) Homepage Journal
    but one step removed from pedophiles or suicide bombers
    or bad television...

  • Recently (Score:5, Funny)

    by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) * <fidelcatsro@gmaDALIil.com minus painter> on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @04:50PM (#14103760) Journal
    Us evil gamers are getting bad press on slashdot . Not all gamers are good upstanding people who just enjoy playing games to de-stress and have a good time . Some of us gamers actually do go on killing sprees , eat babies and Worship Satan whilst sacrificing virgins .
    I cheer CSI for giving us forgotten gamers some press .

    • Re:Recently (Score:3, Funny)

      by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
      "Some of us gamers actually do go on killing sprees , eat babies and Worship Satan whilst sacrificing virgins ."

      This is Slashdot; we are the virgins.

  • Hrm... Sounds like a joke I heard. (Score:4, Funny)

    by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @04:55PM (#14103794)
    that people who play games are but one step removed from pedophiles or suicide bombers in the social hierarchy of evil.

    Stop me know if you heard this one.

    So a priest, terrorist, and gamer all walk into a bar...

  • Damn, video game is like the One Ring, you can't escape its influence and it will put us all in beserk trance and we will all destroy the world....

    *going to check if my DOOM'S DAY device will be ready for this date*

  • Bruckheimer's School of Entertainment (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xenomouse ( 904937 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @05:13PM (#14103921)
    When trying to figure out why some form of entertainment is made in a certain way or made to promote a certain message, the obvious and usually most simple reaction is to follow the money. Who writes the checks to get CSI: Miami made? Jerry Bruckheimer [imdb.com], the number one purveyor of non-cerebral entertainment in the U.S. He's been responsible for such gems as: The Rock, Con Air, Armageddon, Enemy of the State, Coyote Ugly, Kangaroo Jack, and more. Not all his projects are bad; in fact, I really enjoyed Black Hawk Down and Pirates of the Caribbean. However, all his movies are highly dependent on manipulating his viewers' emotions into what he thinks they should feel and rarely do they engage the viewers' intellect. He does this voluntarily and overtly, and his quotes [imdb.com] listed on imdb even allude to that philosophy.

    All that being said, when someone makes entertainment this way, his product is going to be emotionally engaging (either positively or negatively). Obviously, the write of the article was affected very negatively. On the other hand, i'm sure there were many people who were affected in a way that they did take the viewpoint of the show: that gamers are sheep and game companies will promote murder in order to sell games.

  • "I love having this cake... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jeblucas ( 560748 ) <jeblucasNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @05:15PM (#14103934) Homepage Journal
    ...and eating it too! [gamefaqs.com] Heaven forfend someone pick up and play one of the 5 CSI games (for three platforms mind you). The ones that have been rated by the ESRB are all rated Mature(17+) [esrb.org] and feature healthy things like Bood and Gore, Violence, and , ooh hey, Sexual Themes if you pick up the CSI:Miami one.
    • Nice catch.

      But when you have actors portraying gamers who are acting out in real life the things they do for fake in games why not make a machinima/mod where the main character is an actor who acts out in real life the things that he do for fake in movies/tv shows?

      Then we can have CSI making an episode out of it to form an infinite loop.

  • Hmm.. dont you think they are over reacting? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AzraelKans ( 697974 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @05:29PM (#14104017) Homepage
    I just saw the cbs blob and it doesnt quite sound as an "anti gamer" episode to me, it clearly mentions "psychopats acting out a game" the bad guys are the "psychopaths" not the game, the game is just something they are imitating, if it had said "teens" or "innocent children" or "my innocent, innocent clients" then we will had a Jack Thompson like statement in all its glory. CSI is looking for some idiot serial killers acting out a game.

    I would like to reserve judgement until I see the episode (which is difficult because I dont watch that show, not because is bad, I just find it too morbid for my taste.)

    feel free to correct me Im im wrong. I ussually am
    • I would like to reserve judgement until I see the episode

      I saw the episode last night, and to say that it was anti-gamer is total BS.

      The CSI shows always have a range of psycopaths, sociopaths, mobs and generally not-nice people on it. So, what do you expect when the plot "hook" is video games? Mother Teresa playng Pac Man?
  • I keep saying this, and people keep denying it:

    Video games have an image problem!

    *We* know what the truth is, but we're involved in games, either as players or makers. The perception outside the gamer niche is that games are involved with crime, murder sprees and all sorts of bad things. Enough mud has been slung at video games that the general perception seems to be negative.

    Sooner or later, politicians will do their usual 'tough on crime' thing, and crack down on the gaming industry.

    What can we do? Plenty
    • Why should company's censor their work? I agree that gaming has an image problem, but making all games "Family Friendly" is not the way to do it, instead the family friendly games should be made more well known, but also mainstream is just gonna have to learn to accept violent and graphic games, just like they learned to accept graphic movies, TV and music.
      • You're right - games shouldn't have to be family friendly. But on the other hand, it's not good that content like Hot Coffee was hidden away - when it was exposed, it became a "think of the children!" moment, even though the game should never have been sold to kids.

        One issue isn't that games should have to conform to a model, but instead that they should be rated fairly based on content and those ratings communicated clearly to the media. This is sort of being done anyway, but letting media go on a PR offen
  • The show isn't the problem. Anyone who watched this episode knows it's a joke and most gamers (I'll wager 99.9% of gamers) will never act this way. However, there is a problem with society. The majority of people watching this episode who are compliment to the set of gamers will now have a very skewed view of the set of gamers. Ths is the problem. Jack Thompson's of the world rejoice.
  • If you notice things that are wrong with a TV show, fiction or non-fiction, or book or movie, in your area of expertise, you can be damn sure that they're getting heaps of stuff wrong in areas that you know nothing about. You can keep watching in ignorance, or you can write it off as junk. More often than not I do the latter.
    • Heh...yeah. I'll be watching a show, and thinking, "Wow, they can do that?" or "Wow, is that how that works?"

      Then they'll start talking about their computer. "I'll just boot prompt the slash rom and reformat the accessor bridge, and then we should be able to hack into their hard drive."

      That's about when I start to feel like an idiot for being impressed by the first part.
  • Let me see, we have (1) people who love children, (2) people willing to give their lives for the greater good, and (3) gamers.

    Personally, I'd say it's much easier to care about children than to sacrifice your life for the greater good, so I'd peg them (2), (1), (3), but I think there's a big gap between (2) and (3) in this case.

  • Stop complaining - CSI had game culture nailed (Score:5, Funny)

    by Liquidrage ( 640463 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @05:50PM (#14104150)
    I often see hot girls make huge efforts to fit in with guys that are addicted to video-games. When the female actress in CSI was crying and said (paraphrasing), "You don't know what it's like. If you're not a gamer they don't care about you" to explain why she went along with the guys on their crime spree, nothing more true has ever been said. We live in a culture where hot women are forced to conform to the video game habits of young men. When I'm out at a bar or club I can't help but feel sorry for all the rejected hot young women I see. They just didn't have what it takes to conform to the gamers they so desperately want and they flock to bars in packs to drown their sorrows.

    This is a major problem in America. Young women should not be forced to "fit it" with the gamers just to get some self-esteem. I don't know about you, but tonight when I'm out at the bar I'm going to make it my duty to help out some of these rejected non-gaming women.

  • Silly plot. Don't take it seriously. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by techstar25 ( 556988 ) <techstar25.gmail@com> on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @07:32PM (#14104854) Journal
    Wow. It looks like somebody is taking the show too seriously. A crime show always makes "somebody" look like satan. One time is was a housewife, once a judge, a few times a lawyer was the criminal, sometimes it's a child, a delivery man, postal worker, convenience store clerk, whatever. I watched that episode (as a game fan), and I thought, "they sure made COLLEGE KIDS look like low self esteem morons". The opinion on Salon is flat out wrong. Gamers in general were never presented in a negative light. To call the episode anti-gaming is quite naive, and is like calling every other CSI:Miami episode anti-boating (because it seems people always seem to get killed on or around boats) or anti-beach (for the same reason), or anti-college student (for the same reason). I think it's irresponsible to call it anti-gaming. The producers of CSI know who their audience is, and guess what...it's gamers...guys who like action and enjoy movies like The Rock and Armageddon.
    • I think CSI: Miami is total soccermom porn. The 40-something raspy detective drives around Miami in a hummer killing alligators and nogoodniks while arresting ethnic people. I think a large portion of their audience just might be retarded in just the right ways to take it seriously to some extent.

  • That's it! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Wednesday November 23, 2005 @08:38PM (#14105213)
    Now that we've had this accurate portrayal of crime and gaming in Miami, I think now we can all understand where Miami-resident Jack Thompson is coming from!
  • "...that people who play games are but one step removed from pedophiles or suicide bombers in the social hierarchy of evil."

    Actually I was fairly normal until some malevolent force put David Caruso back on prime time TV. I swear it's enough to make anyone an axe murderer.

  • David Caruso and his character are both flaming wads of shit. Don't believe me? Watch one episode of CSI: Miami, and you will be treated to what is possibly the worst acting on primetime TV. I like the original CSI, but the spinoffs all suck. Showing a controversial issue like this is a last ditch attempt to get people to watch. CSI: Miami is dying, and I'm sure Netcraft will confirm it any day now.
    • The character of Horatio in CSI Miami is intended to be a very one note charcter. He is Intense. And not much else.

      Horatio sounds grim and intense when going after murders. Or drug dealers. Or pornorgraphers. But he also sounds grim and intense when going after gamers, parking tickets, littering, and jay walking.

      I bet he also sounds grim and intense when doing a presentation about bike saftey to kindergarten students. Or when he is playing with a box full of puppies. Or when he is squeezing on off wh
    • I sorta agree. I've never really liked CSI:M, especially compared with CSI. What I've always thought is that not only the acting is worse, the political undertones are also much more conservative in CSI:M. It's more the 'tough on crime'-show than the original CSI. Perhaps this all sells a bit better with the somewhat older (florida-based?) population.

      Me, I can't help but cringe whenever they get 'tough' on crime.
  • ...at "Readers beware: Motivated by pure venom, I'm going to spoil the hell out of this episode."
  • Gamers should have seen this coming around the time "Fur and Loathing," the anti-furry [wikipedia.org] episode aired.
    • My thoughts exactly, I've seen a few episodes and it seems like the standard plot device is to take some offbeat and supposedly under-represented subculture and make fun of them throughout an episode, Goths, Furries, UFO um, whatever you call UFO people. They've all been used for a cheap laugh, or portrayed as villianous freaks. It smacks of a lack of creativity, sort of like a bully picking out a new target each week for derision. The only really interesting episode I saw was the one that Tarentino did, w
  • The kids running around the bank shooting it up to the latest mall punk/Xtreeem soundtrack made me choke with laughter and I had to turn it off. Seriously, CSI: Miami is even worse than the New York one (is that still on?) Caruso is a ham that could put Pacino to shame, the nasty orange filter they put over every goddamned shot that takes place outside a building gives me a headache and the plots are contrived by Joey standards.
  • In the pilot episode, there's a brief conversation between both when Nick asks Greg if he has a Dreamcast. I got this from "Elyse: CSI Site" (http://members.aol.com/JRD203/csi-episode-000.htm [aol.com]): "Nick is apparently a videogame buff. He asked Greg if he'd gotten the NFL-2K for Dreamcast yet. Of course he had. He got it the day it came out! Greg's team is the Falcons, while Nick chose Randy Moss." -C2
  • So it is OK when games are overdramatic, unrealistic, and misrepresent reality in order to tell a story or to contrive a desired situation, but it is not ok for TV to do so? And god forbid that gamers be the target of this artistic license. The majority of posts on slashdot seem to either (1) make the CSI episode earn an "insightful" rating for depicting gamers as a selfabsorbed and antisocial or (2) reveal gamers to be a whiney childish lot that can dish it out but not take it, that others can fairly be po
  • I saw the episode and it wasn't that bad. They weren't nessesarily blaming the game, but they did keep some very strong sentiments towards the game, in both the visuals and the dialogue. To start, there were only a few partial shots of the box, which was suprisingly similar to the GTA boxes. CSI members had quotes along the lines of "I had this game but stopped after the first hour, it's horrible of society blah blah blah". What I find particularly amusing is the sort of weapons these teens had. Being from

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