On The Feminine Form In Gaming 693
heartless_ writes "The GamerGirl team over at Gamergod.com has an interesting article delving into a male driven industry. This time the subject of discussion is the sometimes overzealous portrayal of women in games." A well-considered piece, with thoughtful references to the works of Camille Paglia and Naomi Wolf. From the article: "He also highlights several games that, instead of focusing on the female form in its big-breasted glory, showcase women who are intelligent, strong, and powerful. He insists, 'The protagonists highlighted above illustrate that plenty of excitement can be provided by female leads who will, in turn, bring in female gamers - not to speak of richer gameplay options. Additionally, as McIntosh says, most women gamers are "confident enough not to feel threatened" by sexist imagery, merely finding it annoying and disappointing.'"
Slashdotted. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Slashdotted. (Score:2, Funny)
Female form? Are there images? *drools and goes to "read" the article*
The shuffling you hear in the background is millions of disappointed excited Slashdotters going off to find some actual pr0n after the Big Letdown of aught five.
Re:Slashdotted. (Score:2)
Article is lame anyway. (Score:2, Funny)
I only went to the article to see the pictures of big breasted women, and there weren't any. Sucks :-(
stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
I found it ridiculous and frustrating that even in a golf game there were no realistic female avatars to choose from. It's hard to get into a sports game when you're playing a character who wouldn't be able to see past her boobs if she were real. It makes it harder to suspend disbelief and to feel like you're actually in the game.
I think the kind of over-sexualized images you see in games has a negative effect on society's attitudes towards women, but that doesn't have to be the motivation to change it. If game makers would go with the demand and sell games women want to buy, I think the market would take care of itself. The problem arises when there's a kind of feedback loop: games have so far been mostly targetted toward men, and therefore men are the main consumers, therefore there is little incentive to make them more appealing to women. I suspect there are a lot of guys who would prefer having more realistic women in their fantasy senarios - isn't it more fun to fanasize about something that is potentially possible? - but what do I know...
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they there for the homosexual male?
Granted, some games do show a bias toward sexualizing only one of the sexes, but most games (at least the ones I play) tend to be equally unrealistic toward both. (Especially in actual body shape -- clothing seems to be more sexual on the feminie side.)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:2)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:2)
Is it just me, or do other people see this and immediately ge
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a fantasy setting. The male characters are as crazily out of proportion as the female characters. There are plenty of girls who are happy to play a super-endowed, super-athletic character in a game. Wouldn't want to be that top-heavy or dress like that in real-life, but that's why it's a game.
If some women have a problem with women being portrayed like that in a game, it's more likely irritation with men who ogle a three inch computer game character than with anything else.
But see previous comment about number of women on the planet. Any comment that talks about how "women" feel about something is going to be wrong to the tune of at least hundred million or so.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure both are exaggerated, but I think the complaint is that the female characters are exaggerated in a very sexualised way, not just in proportion, but in motion. I think if every game featured only guys in very tight suits or loin cloths such that you could always see the carefully animated wobbles of his apparently massive penis, and many of the characters moves and animations were such as to emphasise that in a particularly sexual way, along with a number of patently sexualised animations (think a whole lot of deliberate hip grinding, crotch grabbing and such like) then I think guys wouldn't be attracted to those games. Mostly they just say they were all "gay" etc. All that is being said here is that women are not particularly enthralled with games that portray women in a similar pointlessly sexualised way.
Jedidiah.
MOD parent UP! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:4, Funny)
On discomfort (Score:3, Funny)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
The typical male reader/viewer/player will identify with male characters and be interested in female characters. Superheroes -- and let's face it, that's basically what male game characters often are, even if they don't have tights and a cape -- are essentially power fantasies. What would I do with Superman's powers, or Batman's martial arts skills and gadgets. The typical guy looks at Superman or Duke Nuke'em and says, "I'd love to be that guy." Then he looks at Wonder Woman or Lara Croft and says "I'd love to do that girl."
In both case these are men's ideals, which is why men look at the idealized man and say "I could be that" instead of "I have to be that?!?" or "Oh, please!" as women often do when they look at the idealized woman. I have to wonder what games (or comics) would look like where the men and women were exaggerated to match women's ideals. Would we have the same reactions to their idealized men?
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
Which men would ignore like we do now.
Except, we don't bitch about making Harlequin romance more appealing to men. We realize it appeals to women and let them have their fun.
So to answer, No, men wouldn't find it appealing and instead of trying to change it to make it appealing we'd just go do something that appeals to us.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, even the most girly-looking "bishounen" in anime have deep, husky voices in the original Japanese track, especially if the male love interest is somewhat shrouded in mystery.
It's generally American animation houses which think women have better "cartoon" voices. Bart Simpson, for example, is voiced by a woman.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, I think that the strong, capable woman has become sort of a cliche on its own - that if women are not depicted as the objects of male desire, they have to be some sort of super-being. That's actually sort of a problem: the super-male figure is appealing to adolescent males, because it is part of an adolescent power fantasy that has a lot to do with their situation. Instead of trying to have "strong female characters," which have become as boring and predictable as the bimbos and the beefcakes, how about the other adjective you use - complex - along with, perhaps, neither confident nor dependent - conflicted, nuanced, in an actual problematic situation which she may not be sure how to deal with.
Among my favorite videogame characters were the avatar and NPC in Ico - both of whom were often in danger of being completely overwhelmed by their environment. The effort to just create "strong women" has resulted in too many cliches, and not even profitable ones.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:2)
I agree completely that too many games lack character complexity; too many resort to the good/bad dichotomy. Thankfully, that's just a generalization, not a universal rule.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:2)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want more proof look at magazines that are targetted at women. It's *always* some big breasted, beautiful woman on the cover. Everywhere you look in the magazine it's more pictures of sexy women in revealing clothing. Men don't buy those magazines!!!!! Those magazines are targetted at women and they sell!
Whine all you like but if you want to sell games, or anything else for that matter to women - you need to put a ridiculously beautiful girl somewhere in the product. Put an ugly one in there too that will never be played just so you're not labelled as a "sexist pig" by the very people who select the big breasted girl as their character.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Funny)
Or, to rephrase:
The female form is beautiful. It's curves and moves and hints left unsaid are equally attractive to both sexes.
And, yes, my wife does play a large breasted undead in WoW, and yes IRL, IBTC.
~W
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny you should say that. I play WoW with my wife and a female friend. My
Ummm... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not going to deny that a lot of people do what the people you know do, but I think you'll find the same proportion of girl-who-picks-buxom-redhead to guy-who-picks-muscular-heman. It's an overall tendency to pick a character to project yourself in a way that you perceive would be attractive to others or that is attractive to you. It's all about what you want to get out of the game.
Personally, I think that more people choose their characters based on the personality that they want to project, but then again I do tend to play on roleplaying servers so I get a rather skewed view of the mmorpg population.
(And yes, I'm a real life female.)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:3, Insightful)
I (for one) am always irritated when all the female avatars in games have super-sized breasts and hips, because I'd rather play one that looks realistically athletic. And yeah, I'm a straight woman.
BTW how do you know that the "girls" you meet in MMOs are actual girls? Just wondering.
Obligatory... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:3, Interesting)
1. All of the men who play female av
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:3, Insightful)
How WOULD things change if...? (Score:5, Insightful)
Very very few of the male gamers out there actually look like Duke Nukem or any of the male characters in todays video games. Even Gordon Freemen, an engineer with glasses who should, by that description alone, be at the top of the geek stereotype, is a buff, cut good-looking individual. Do these unrealistic characters drive away the male populace? Not at all. Part of playing a game is escaping from your ordinary life, and this is enhanced by role-playing as a good-looking, visually appealing character. When given the choice, not many choose an ugly avatar for themselves in the game world.
Now, if every game was designed to attract females as well as males, what would female characters look like? There may be some change, but most, especially those that serve as player representations, wouldn't change much, because females like to roleplay too. They like to imagine they are the incredibly fit and attractive heroine, as opposed to an average-looking everyday character. Bust sizes may be a little less top heavy and closer to the realm of believability, but they will still be on the higher end of the scale. Why shouldn't females be allowed to indulge in as much role-pplay and fantasy as the guys?
But what about male characters in games that aren't handsome or fit? Rare, but when used, are often playing a stereotype or primarily comic role. The fat man isn't the hero, he's either a hapless shmoe in need of rescue, or a bungling foe that is easily dispatched. Now, female counterparts to these stereotypes exist in the real world, but we never see them in games. Why? Is it because females are objectified? I argue that this is at least in part because developers have too much respect and/or fear of females in general to throw them into a game. White males, being the "majority" and the de facto "ruling class" are fare game for satire and ridicule, but females are still viewed as the injured "minority", and as such are beyond such blatant stereotyping, one of several Sacred Cows if you will.
I'm not trying to pass any moral judgements here on how people in games shoud be represented (for the most part anyways), just trying to type out my own observations. That's just how I see it so far.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno. When my girlfriend signed up to play Warcraft she expressed supreme disappointment that none of the female models on the horde side were "hot" and she's anxiousl awaiting the expansion pack and Blood Elves. I think a more likely explanation for female disinterest in gaming is that women just aren't into gaming. It doesn't appeal strongly to the social instincts of the (and I'm generalizing) female psyche. When you do see lots of women gaming, they're often involved in MMORPGs and often heavily engage in the social aspect of it. Unrealistic two-dimensional female characters don't help attract women gamers, certainly, but most women I've seen sit down to make an avatar in a game pound out the sexiest thing they can come up with.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:4, Insightful)
The demand equation for this isn't so simple. No one knows for sure to what extent women don't play video games because they aren't interested, and to what extent they don't play them because they aren't targeted to them. Men were much bigger gamers back in the days of Atari, and I'd hardly say that Pacman, Frogger, Tennis, etc. were particularly geared towards males.
The financial equation these companies are weighing is this: which is greater, the number of additional game purchases by men if they make the female characters ridiculously sexualized, or the number of additional game purchases by women if they make the female characters more realistic?
I don't know the answer to this, but if I had to guess, I'd say that they stand to sell more with the overly sexualized women. I'm guessing this partly because I suspect the game companies already know the answer, and they tend to overly sexualize the women.
I am in no way evaluating the morality of this here, I'm just pointing out that the economics aren't as cut and dry as you suggest. I doubt the game companies make characters who border on being pornographic despite it causing them financially harm.
Re:stating the obvious... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:stating the obvious...and giving the easy answr (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, but that's not the point. All of the small, subtle biases that surround people add up to an overall influence that is non-negligible. Just because something is not THE most pressing problem in the world doesn't mean it's not worth doing anything about.
Society will change and women will be treated differently when they demand such treatment and a
Recent culture vs. ancient culture (Score:5, Interesting)
Really, what would these writers think of fertility idols? Talk about exaggerated body types and... er... attributes (both male and female).
Re:Recent culture vs. ancient culture (Score:3, Insightful)
Really, what would these writers think of fertility idols?
I think the idea is that their exaggerated body parts symbolise what those gods are good at. If idols that had nothing to do with fertility, but, say, the harvesting of crops or whatever, had those same exaggerated body parts, then that would be as odd as what we have now.
It's not quite the same thing as spandex clad people with big breasts or bulging muscles shooting at each other.
I am in shock (Score:5, Funny)
I'm still waiting for the game where the idea is to help a rather blessed big breasted lady walk down the street via the use of the mouse to help her from toppling over.
Re:I am in shock (Score:2)
That's it -- it's an accessibility feature for those with poor eyesight! She's not unrealistically endowed -- those are the iconographic equivalent of access ramps (queue reference to Scott McCloud).
I wonder if the game industry can apply for government grants with this line of thinking
Full mirror here (Score:5, Funny)
What's wrong with big-breasted women? They can be smart too! You just need to make sure you that you enjoy "their views" as well as "the view".
Hey, wait a minute! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hey, wait a minute! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hey, wait a minute! (Score:3, Insightful)
Who the hell modded the parent insightful? It was obvious from the moment that this article was posted that we'd see the nearderthal Slashdot element emerge from their basements. In this case, we have the tired cliche that feminists are only unattractive bitter women. Do you really think that any woman who expresses an opinion about the way women are portrayed in games is doing so because she's not sufficiently endowed according the your
Two thoughts. (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead of basing themselves on the average woman, with average breast size and average face, the media guys (not necessarily game makers) give us some sex goddesses.
AND THEN the models are compared to real girls, and, because they can't be compared, they think they're not worth having a boyfriend and end up having depression / anorexia / etc.
2) The guys fanta
Re:Hey, wait a minute! (Score:2)
Re:Hey, wait a minute! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not just Females (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not just Females (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not just Females (Score:5, Funny)
Not just a gaming thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Go back to the beginning of the comic book or look at the covers of old pulp fiction novels. Women have generally always been drawn as buxom and willowy, giving off that hint of repressed sexuality just waiting to come out. Guys ate it up and still do. Would Wonder Woman be as big a draw if she were flat-chested? Girls would still like her but guys would look elsewhere for their eye candy.
So now that gaming and the Internet are the places you find hordes of adolescent males, is it any wonder the trend continues? And so Lara Croft picks up where Wonder Woman leaves off. It may be the 21st Century, but some things aren't going to change anytime soon, not without some sort of ground-swell by woman gamers/artists.
Re:Not just a gaming thing (Score:2)
The fact that she doesn't want to wear a respectable pantsuit while doing archeaological gymnastics in tomb located in a stuffy Amazon rainforest only emphasizes her intelligence even more.
Re:Not just a gaming thing (Score:3, Insightful)
Which I think goes back to the point of the article somewhat. The gaming industry perpetuates the "buxom babe" stereotype through its characters, but at the same time they take on new proportions (e.g
Double standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
Correction... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just how retarded do you have to be to feel threatened by the shape of a video game character?
Yes, current video game imagery - like 90% of the rest of 'entertainment' is pretty damn sexist in its representation of the genders. However like anything else money goes where the suits think the biggest profit will return from. If they don't believe there's profit to be made from a more balanced view, well that's just part of the trade-off of living in a society where people are allowed to make the games they want to, play and watch what they want to, and think what they want to.
I'd rather live in a society where female video game characters are portrayed the way horny teen males wold have them rather than a society where character designs are dictated to you in the name of equality.
Re:Correction... (Score:5, Insightful)
And frankly, who cares? Do chicks want to see a chick flick with Orlando Bloom as the leading hunk who romances a destitute maid and rescues her from her dreary life or do they want to see Chris Farley? Come on now.
I'd rather live in a society where people stop bullshitting each other and pretending anything other than nice tits and ass and points for fuckability or nice pecs an ass and being tall and handsome mean a fucking thing. The fact is, dudes want to see and have hot, sexy, youthful babes and chicks want to see and have hot, confident, successful, wealthy, svelt, tall men.
I saw a conversation drag on forever on my own website where all of the women (the site is 95% women) droned on about how they wouldn't even TALK to a guy unless he was at least 6'2" *minimum* and if he didn't have at least 7" of dick, there wasn't going to be a second or third date. So don't give me this bullshit for one fucking minute that men are big evil sexist jerks that demean women when they do the same fucking thing. At least our requisites are simple "cute and fuckable" versus all the peculiar little requisites that chicks have.
Sounds right (Score:5, Funny)
As a male who is being entertained by a game that consists of stealing cars, beating up people, killing them, running them over, getting high, running illegal drugs, and having sex with prostitutes; the addition of intelligent, strong, and powerful women would definitely add to the entertainment factor over a hot chick with big breasts.
how about the masculine form in gaming? (Score:2, Insightful)
I Think I'm Going To Vomit (Score:5, Interesting)
The vast majority of people in the games biz have girlfriends, wifes, or other form of sexual partners.
The amount of time spent on the female form in our games? Close to zero.
Yes, the female form is usually idealized in games.
And for that matter, so is the male.
And while we're at it so are zombies, aliens, vehicles, buildings, and just about everything else we stick in a game.
It is appealing for people to want to portray the industry as patethic little dorks masturbating in their cubicles over bouncing breast physics in games and the poor women of the world soldiering on in the face of such behavior in men ready to throw their cash at the games market if the 'little boys would just grow up and be as mature as women'
Too bad it has no realtion to reality.
40 percent of our time is spent thinking about and implementing what we think would be fun.
40 percent of our time is spent thinking about and implementing what we think would look cool.
And 10 percent of our time is spent think about and talking about where we are going to have lunch.
Re:I Think I'm Going To Vomit (Score:2)
sex... (Score:2, Redundant)
Off the top of my head. (Score:4, Insightful)
Alyx Vance, for example? She was a brilliant scientist who knew her way with a gun and built huge robots for fun. If she is not a strong female character, I don't know who is.
Maybe it's due to famine... (Score:4, Funny)
Crow T. Trollbot
i wonder how many .. (Score:5, Funny)
A & D (Score:4, Insightful)
I find that thought annoying and disappointing. "Sexist imagery" can be enjoyed simply for what it is, or ignored. It will be a very gray world if everything that offends somebody is removed -- regardless of how many other people enjoy it.
It's almost like thought control. How dare you like that. I'm offended. Nobody can have it because I will complain.
Of course, video games are like thought control too. Play this game now! Give us more of your money!
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:In the real world... (Score:5, Funny)
He very well MAY by the time DNF is released!
Effect and Cause? (Score:2)
here's a different take on "feminine" gaming (Score:5, Funny)
via this BoingBoing post [boingboing.net]
Probably going to get modded down for this... (Score:2, Interesting)
requisite "same thing for guys in games" reply (Score:3, Insightful)
The element of fantasy and excess in video games, let alone popular culture, is nottttthin' new. If anything, there's more respect and gender appreciation paid to women now than there ever has been in popular culture. Leave It To Beaver, anyone? If given the option, I think most would choose busty, gun-toting dynamos over subservient housewives, at the very least, as a "lesser of the evils" stereotype.
FPPF - first person pillow fighting (Score:4, Funny)
Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
* Submit article to SlashDot including references to both gaming and large-breasted women.
* Include a link to a reasonably low-volume site using database software to serve articles. (Bonus points if attempt to add streaming video.)
* Wait for server to catch fire, then enjoy roasted chestnuts!
To whom it may concern (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course men are aware the game is an escape from reality, and don't tend to bitch about such things.
Reviews like these paints some women as jealous bitches who can't stand to play or even see a female video game character with qualities they don't find in themselves.
Re:To whom it may concern (Score:4, Insightful)
The female stereotypes on the other hand characterise features (e.g. big breasts, tiny thighs) which do not actually deliver any positive benefit to the character themselves. In fact, big breasts tend to cause painful back problems (not good for Laura when she has to do constant aerial flips and stuff) and thin thighs decrease stamina and physical strength.
I think there is defiantly a stark difference, the male equivalent would kind of be weasily stick thin characters with no muscles but great hair and an absolutely massive penis (something I've yet to have noticed in many games).
Don't tell us what we "shouldn't" see (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't get offended when a dog barks -- that's what they do! Men do what men do... want what men want. It's NATURAL. Don't bitch about nature 'cause it ain't gonna do any good. What it does cause is needless, health-robbing guilt!
Meet the most offensive demographic: ME! White-male, early-middle-aged, straight. I like women. I'm responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to a woman, a person of non-white ethnicity and to gays and lesbians. I'm the freakin' devil right? At some point, you just have to turn your back on this crap and just be who and what you are -- the days of "Political Correctness" are numbered.
Need visuals (Score:3, Funny)
I don't get it... (Score:3, Interesting)
The "thoughtful" references to the authors mentioned makes it sound like the games industry is some sort of male consipiracy, trying to force women to look like Lara Croft. I don't really see how they stretch to that, thought. Beyond fighting games like DOA or Rumble Roses, I don't see much in the way of game designers turning to "jiggle technology" instead of gameplay (and even DOA does tend to change a little from version to version). To be honest, looking back through time I can't think of that many games with hugely overblown female avatars at all, especially in comparison to overblown male avatars.
And lately, of course, we're tending more towards first-person games where you don't see any avatar at all, except in cutscenes. Or games like Tomb Raider where the size of the breasts are immaterial because of the chase-camera view. As I said, I've worked on driving games, where your gender is never even referred to.
So, since the article only says this is a big problem in lots of titles and never actually mentions any of them by name (the "jiggle" leads me to think of the fighting games I mentioned before, as well as the spinoff Beach Volleyball game), what should we as game producers be doing to combat the male conspiracy to twist women's appearances to our evil will?
Also, as a final aside, anyone else find it interesting that the recent Playboy game was designed by Brenda Brathwaite, who is in fact a real actual female woman?
Re:I don't get it... (Score:3, Insightful)
I read a fascinating book recently called "Female Chauvenist Pigs." It's really a great read. The book's thesis is that there are women in this country who exploit their sexuality to gain power. While this is hardly surprising, the women who do it brand their behavior as a form of nouveau feminism.
The writer, who is a woman, writes about ma
Beyond Good and Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
Metroid (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would female characters need more depth than male characters? For the purposes of a video game, they don't. But they don't need to be used in a sexist way just to make them likeable, either.
Samus Aran (Score:3, Insightful)
There's nothing wrong with sex! (Score:5, Insightful)
I enjoy a very close, intimate relationship with my wife. She's very sexy to me, and she finds me sexy as well. And, we're both very comfortable with that.
But, we're both human! When we're in public, it's not uncommon for one of us to notice another member of the opposite sex. We frequently mention it privately to the other, as "Wow, he's hot!" or "Damn, she's got a nice butt!".
See, it's ok. We're all born with the urge to reproduce, and we all find other people attractive, and there's no wrong in that. It would only be wrong if I were to ACT on it with somebody other than my partner - get a phone number, go on a date, whatever.
On the Sci-fi channel, it's typical to see an intelligent, forceful guy as captain, a few, strong, sexy females (in leather!) and a few nerdly guys running around, with a scantily clad warrior, armed with a 6 foot sword.
It's interesting. It's a little exotic. It has a little of something for everyone. And, it's mildly erotic.
People like money. People like travelling. People like sex. Why is it ok to have shows and/or video games with money, or travelling, but not portray a little sexiness? I don't want to stare up poontang, wondering where the cervix is, but, as mouse said, "to deny our basic urges is to deny what makes us human!".
And before you mention "think of the children!", I say this as a father of 5, 3 of whom are teens...
Heh! (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, because most male heros in video games are bald guys with beer guts. Not to sound sexist but let's face facts here, women constantly cry "sexism sexism" but how many women go to films staring the likes of Brad Pitt or Richard Gere? Wouldn't it be nice to see, say, Danny Devito in a romantic role?
before anyone goes crying troll; it's just a joke, well, kind of. the moral of the story is that the "sexist imagery" plays both ways and we all know it.
Well! (Score:3, Insightful)
Male Opression? (Score:5, Insightful)
Naomi Wolf is much more blunt. In her book The Beauty Myth, she argues that this very standard of beauty set forth by the media is the primary mechanism of women's oppression by men. She discusses the "suffering caused by trying to meet the demands of the thin ideal"
This would be a great idea, except that laying this all at the feet of men is more than a bit unfair to me. To be sure, the ideal of feminine beauty that is espoused by male oriented media seems extreme -- until you compare it to the images in female oriented media. The male favored image requires surgery, unconscionable quantities of gym time, fasting, and a soupcon of digital touch up. But it's nothing compared to the gaunt images that women pay to consume.
Of course, can say that it's men who run the media companies that produce these images, and you'd be wrong on two counts. The "Cosmo Girl" was the creation of Helen Gurley Brown, after all. But Ms. Brown's sex is not at issue at all. The point is that women and men who run media companies end up doing much the same thing, because they're driven by the same economic forces. The Cosmo Girl wants to have it all. The reason she wants to have it all is because promoting the ideal of having it all pleases the advertisers; it involves not a little buying.
The reason that media female body image is so unrealistic is simple economics. If scarcity enhances value, then the unobtainable must be perceived as infinitely valuable. For the man, the companies inevitably take the general parameters indicating robust healthy child bearing capability and simply nip and tuck it to the edge of impossibility. You meet a woman who looks like that once in a blue moon, and she's definitely not going to be interested in you. Voila! the unobtainable.
For women, the companies produce an image that is starved (never mind this contradicts the male oriented images). A normal woman's homestatic processes will torture her into sumbission long before she reaches this stage. Voia! once more the unobtainable.
It's not the opression of women by men; at least if it is nobody's ever invited me to the meetings where this is arranged. It's not as personal as that. The problem is the antithesis of that. It's completely impersonal. it's economic and thus about systems and performance metrics and quarterly goals, not anything as personally satisfying as domination I'm afraid. And when the putatively immoral male sex is displaced in a position by the putatively superior female sex, there's bound to be very little difference in results. They're just cogs in the machine either way.
I'm not saying that certain main aren't pigs. But that's just the general tyranny of the stupid who've lucked into a little power.
Another aspect of the economics of beauty is age. In traditional societies, age is respected, because it is rare to obtain. In a modern consumer society it's devalued. From an individual's perspective, youth is something that slips away irretrievably but age is something he is very likely to count on a steadily increasing supply of.
The real problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The article is very critical of Holliwood portrayal of the women, but forgets to tell that women flock "en masse" to the latest holliwood chick-flick.
Games are based on interaction and game play. Today, the designers know how to transpose violence, destruction and puzzles into games. No one really knows how to port emotion or make a good game just based on interactions (with the computer, not a MMO like 2nd life).
So, when they want to include some female forms, they will still fit within those parameters. It is easier to include T&A in a given formula than to develop a character and make her conflicted.
Anyway, i'm not sure I agree to any of the logic saying that girls will play when the games will present tham as strong characters and avatars. I mean, i did not play mario because i dreamed to be a plumber or sonic for its hedgehog. Lots of games have aliens characters (Abe's Odyssey) and it is the game mechanics that draw the public, not the "confidant characters", although don't we all dream to be a hero?
Breaking News: This just in (Score:4, Insightful)
People like to look at attractive people. People want to be like attractive people. People want to be around attractive people.
Avoiding the Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Everybody deals with their stereotype, except perhaps those who are actual models of that stereotype. For example, there are about as many Muslims as Jews in the United States (~5m). When was the last time you saw a Muslim on TV just playing a regular role, that didn't have anything specifically to do with them being Muslim? In contrast, Jews are all over the place, in many roles where (gasp!) you're not even made aware that they're Jewish! There are over 1.5m Indians in the United States. A lot of them are second-generation. When was the last time you saw in Indian on TV that spoke unaccented English? I am an Indian (well, Bengali), who speaks without an accent (I've been here since I was five), and M. Night Shyamalan's "Signs" cameo was weird even for me!
So what's my point here? Everybody is stereotyped in pop culture. Pop culture is superficial by its very nature! The portrayal of people in popular culture is more or less irrelevent. If women are dissatisfied by their place in the world, only they can change it. Yes, there are still boundaries, and yes, those must be broken down, but the bottleneck to womens' advancement today is in many cases women themselves. Consider, for example, higher education. There is an enormous dearth of women in the "hard sciences" and in engineering. Who can be blamed for this state of affairs? Men? Male students have little control over admissions, and male administrators are falling over themselves trying to increase female enrollment. The opportunities are there, yet a female is still a rare sight on an engineering campus. Why? Simply put: because females aren't interested! Women, it appears, don't want to be engineers or scientists or mathematicians, or even philosophers, or historians, or economists, for that matter. These are the professions in which people are respected for their mind. If women don't enter these professions, despite the opportunities available to them, how can they expect to be respected for their intellectual capabilities?
Re:female gamers? (Score:2)
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Insightful)
A quick scan of the covers of the most popular magazines with women confirm this fact. They like looking at Katherine Zeta Jones in an elegant, tight black dress just as much as we do, though for slightly different reasons.
As long as this is true, female game avatars will continue to be hotties, no matter who the game is "targeted" at.
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Insightful)
If we're going to be realistic about women in games, then we should be realistic about men in games.
So now you have to fight in underground street fighting tournaments with a 120 pound guy who's never so much as slapped anybody before. You also have to play games where your 350 pound character has trouble getting into cars he's hijacking. You should see him try to fit into an air duct.
Until these changes are made, I
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:5, Insightful)
First you say it's not valid, then you say economics (in other words, SALES) is what drives them to do it.
Fashion magazines vastly out-sell female-targeted magazines which feature photos of men. Even in the teen market, YM out-sells Tiger Beat by a long shot. This is simple economics pointing out that women like looking at pretty women.
Or perhaps women buy the magazines for other reasons (informative content) and simply tolerate the images.
If there was any truth to that at all, some ambitious publisher could make a killing by publishing an informative women's magazine which doesn't feature all the ultra-expensive photo-shoots of beautiful models. Apart from "Martha Stuart Living" (which has a promotional agenda outside of sales of the magazine itself), I'm at a loss to think of a magazine which even attempts to do so.
Finally, even if many women do have the attitude that the pictures on the magazines are the ideal of female beauty, does that mean it's all okay? No, not necessarily.
It also doesn't mean that it's not okay.
Can you look like Tyra Banks? Probably not, but by the time you are in your mid-twenties one would hope that you've learned to come to terms with that fact. It actually is possible for you to gawk at how shockingly pretty Adrianna Lima is without turning into a quivering mass of self-loathing every time you look in a mirror. Most well-adjusted womwn learn to do so.
But all this is drifting away from my point. It's a very simple point, which is that sexual imagery in media boils down to one very simple truths:
1. Most men like looking at sexy women.
2. Most women also like looking at sexy women.
The (obvious) lesson here:
Women are pretty.
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Interesting)
2. Most women also like looking at sexy women.
1. Most (I presume you mean straight) men like looking at sexy women because it causes an instinctive postive reaction or stimulation.
2. Most women look at sexy women because they want to evoke the same reaction and are looking for the guidelines. Ergo, women look at sexy women not because they like looking at sexy women, but because they like getting positive attention especially from men.
The whole debate abo
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Informative)
You presume incorrectly. Gay men like looking at women too. Madonna owes a great deal of her career success to her status as a gay icon.
It all comes back to my main point, and one which you are not going to be able to refute:
Women are pretty.
The media does not prop up a certain concept of feminine beauty which we would not otherwise arrive at. All it does is reflect what we all want to see. They have no agenda to change our appetites, because there's far more money in fe
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Interesting)
Saying it has doesn't make it so.
For someone who is invoking economics, you seem to have a pretty shallow grasp of the field. There is more than the Chicago School, you know. You could start with reading "The Affluent Society" bij J.K. Galbraith. And here's a more recent citation [sagepub.com]. It's the first hit when you google for 'sovereign consumer' for crying out loud.
No, it's not a given. It's you
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Interesting)
Feeling "threatened" is the epitome of the feminist mindset and quickly makes *any* situation about personal safety and/or mental stability... and it's impossible to argue with either.
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Interesting)
Being shorter, weaker, slower, and poorer than him all make me far, far less successful at impressing members of the opposite sex that I would be if I had all that going for me.
Why am I able to enjoy a Timberwolves game and admire Kevin Garnett's remarkable athleticism without becoming "intimidated and demoralized" by the unrealistic ideal of manhood which he projects? If half of what various feminist wonks are saying is true, seeing KG play a b
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Insightful)
By golly, I want my heroes fat, club-footed, bucktoothed and bedridden.
Anyone other than me reminded of Vonnegut's Handicapper General [wikipedia.org] fro
Re:3 Billion Women... (Score:3, Insightful)
That is abundantly untrue.
Hillary Clinton looks pretty good for a woman her age, yet is universally detested by those who disagree with her politics. Mother Theresa had a face like a horse, yet was venerated probably more than any woman of the 20th Century.
Likewise, a lot of men manage to get ahead on their good looks (or are held back by the lack of them.)
If women fixed everything that is perceived as 'wrong' with them, half of us would b