HD Era Doesn't Start Till Sony Says So

GamesIndustry.biz is reporting on comments from Phil Harrison, who says that consumers looking for an HD experience should wait for the PS3. From the article: "The true definition of HD is the three elements of the HD value chain - the display, the content and the hardware to play back that content ... and PlayStation and Sony is the only organisation that has all three bits of the value chain together."

HD Chain

[77Punker]

The true definition of HD is something along the lines of "a tv set that's more than 640x480." You could say an HD chain is any old thing that can do HD plus any old HD TV. So, why is this even an article?

Re:HD Chain

[Microangelo]

"So, why is this even an article?" Two words: Sony's Balls.

Re:HD Chain

[/ASCII]

Why is there an article? Because Sony says so!

There seem to be two claims in the article, though they are both kind of vauge.

The first one is that 720p is not true HD. 720p is 1280*720 @ 60Hz, which is roughly 5.3 higher than SD as used in DVDs, i.e. 720*480 @ 60/2 Hz. 1080p is 1920*1080 @ 60 Hz, another 2.2 times more than 720p. So the step between 720p and 1080p is much smaller than the one from 480i to 720p. It should also be noted that 720p and 1080i contain roughly the same amount of information. It is very unclear to what degree Sony will support 1080p. While the PS3 itself will support it, that does not mean all games will. Sony has made no such statements. Sonys consumer level projectors that are sold today use 720p resolution internally. Blu-ray will support both 720p and 1080p. While many movies will probably be released in 1080p, they are originally shot at 24 FPS, which means they will actually contain less information thatn a full 720p signal, i.e. less information than the 'not HD' Xbox 360. I don't know if there are any tv-series shot in higher resolution than 720p, but I'm sure there aren't many. So there will be very little content for Sony to release that can outperform what the Xbox 360 does today.

The second claim is even more vauge. You need three things for HD:

1. A HD compatible TV-set
2. Something that can generate an HD signal (like a HD reciever, PS3, a PC or a Xbox 360)
3. Some HD material (Like a game for the Xbox 360, a HD cable signal or a HD-resolution video file)

What Sony seems to be implying is that while there are lots and lots of different providers that can give you any one of the above, no single provider is currently providing all three. This is true. Sony is also saying that if you aren't using the same brand on all three parts, you aren't using HD. This is false.

By extension, that would imply that once the PS3 arrives, you won't be doing real HD unless you are playing a Sony game and using a Sony TV-set. So you best forget about playing Resident Evil or buying that Panasonic plasma. Otherwise you won't be doing HD. Says Sony.

Re:HD Chain

[offcell]

Fuck Pants! (/Ctrl-alt-Del)

Re:HD Chain

[jackbird]

It should also be noted that 720p and 1080i contain roughly the same amount of information.

Not exactly. The reason 1080i exists is for sports broadcasts, where smooth motion/higher temporal resolution is more desirable than higher spatial resolution at a lower frame rate (1080p).

While many movies will probably be released in 1080p, they are originally shot at 24 FPS, which means they will actually contain less information thatn a full 720p signal

720p24 and 1080p24 are HD modes specifically for movie

Re:HD Chain

[apoc06]

maybe you guys didnt read the same article i read, or maybe EVERYONE is extrapolating based upon their hatred for sony.

what i got from the article is no where near as sinister. they are saying that the true HD era wont begin until the arrival of the ps3. no big deal; its your common sony boastful commentary. however, in this case, he kinda has a slight point.

microsoft has been pushing this hd era deal for the x360, but so what? they are claiming to have started something that EVERY console was capable of la

Re:HD Chain

[apoc06]

here is a list of games that run in 480p and YES 720p and GASP 1080i for xbox.
http://www.hdtvarcade.com/xboxlist.htm [hdtvarcade.com]

my point is that the original xbox was capable of HD output. there wasnt much in the way of content, but it was possible and was done to some extent during the current generation.

as the other AC pointed out... the ps2 output gran turismo in 720p and 1080i as well. there are several ps2 games that ran in 480p, but considering that 480p doesnt count... ill let that part of the argument rest.

as f

Re:HD Chain

[ad0gg]

[quote] as for their 1080p is "real" HD claim. its BS, anyone with common sense knows to ignore it. however, ask yourself this: in the next say 8-10 years, if you have to buy a new HDTV and you decide to get the best. the best being 1080p. as more tvs enter the market and the price drops, eventually 1080p will become the next standard. wouldnt you be able to appreciate a system that was capable of taking advantage of your console? its futureproofing; as a consumer, i appreciate a company that is thinking ab

Re:HD Chain

[apoc06]

thats the point. they want to point out that blu-ray is supposed to be the first reliable source of the highest definition HD home entertainment. the corollary is that the ps3 will be the first major form of viewing blu-ray.

Oh, THAT HD.

[Errandboy of Doom]

I thought this was a slam on the 360's reduced hard drive space [ign.com].

Could we maybe not reuse acronyms?

Re:Oh, THAT HD.

[Xerxus]

Generally, in console gaming, the Harddrive is shortened to HDD.

Re:Oh, THAT HD.

[Anonymous Coward]

HDD=hard disk drive
HD=high definition

Re:Oh, THAT HD.

[KDR_11k]

HD = High Density, at least when it's printed on 3.5" floppies.

I can do better...

[tktk]

I can go beyond HD. All I have to do is look away from any TVs or monitors.

The resolution of reality is amazing. At least 2x better than HD.

No good programs to watch or games to play though, just a bunch of tables and chairs.

Re:I can do better...

[Guppy06]

"No good programs to watch or games to play though, just a bunch of tables and chairs."

Sounds like an E3 tech demo. Is there somebody screaming in your ear about how many polygons it can display?

Re:I can do better...

[Red Flayer]

"The resolution of reality is amazing. At least 2x better than HD."

And just forget about the infinite frame rate

Re:I can do better...

[dolphinling]

Haven't you heard of spacetime granularity? The real world only has a framerate of about 18500000000000000000000000000000000000000000Hz. You'll have to buy a newer model universe if you want truly want infinite.

Re:I can do better...

[dascandy]

I've stopped playing a simulated race game more than once, then to get in my real car and to be amazed by the light rendering, the very good anti-aliasing, bump mapping and the incredible polygon rate. Also, the accuracy of skidding was completely incredible...

Sadly, the price of new tires was also incredible.

Sony said so- the "Year of High Definition"

[tm2b]

Too bad Sony already said so, when Sony President Kunitake Ando announced on stage with Steve Jobs [osviews.com] that this would be the "Year of High Definition."

Sony's value chain

[Urkki]

"...and Sony is the only organisation that has all three bits of the value chain together."

Yeah, and the three bits are:
- protecting user from unlawful access to digital content
- improving customers' stored digital media (eg MP3 files on PC hard disk)
- enabling automatic installation of useful software by third parties

Re:Right...

[ivan256]

Uh, what? You clearly have no idea what NUMA means.

NUMA means that memory access times are non-uniform. In other words, longer for some addresses and shorter for others. Unified memory architecure means that all the memory in the system shares a common address space. You can't compare NUMA to UMA because they don't have anything do do with each other. A system can be NUMA and unified at the same time. It can also be non-unified and non-NUMA.

There is no documented evidence that I can find that the PS3 doesn't have a unified memory address space, dispite the NUMAness of it. In fact it looks like it probably *does* have a unified memory architecture. Also, from what I can tell of the architecture diagrams, it's only NUMA due to the necessity of cache coherancy between the cells (all cells talk to one central memory bank through a switch, cells accessing the same memory need to coordinate before accessing thus slowing down access to shared regions while non-shared regions will have one-step access), and a well written application will not experience the NUMA behavior very often.

That has to be one of the most arbitrary and stupid ways to distinguish between future gaming platforms. Pick on the quality and quantity of the games, and not on the specs that you don't understand anyway.

Re:Right...

[Intocabile]

The point is that texture access needs to be fast as possible and having to go across multiple busses to access textures isn't going to be speedy at all. So textures are best stored in the memory that is most local to the GPU. Using Cell for feeding transformed geometry to the RSX is another thing entirely. The number of polys you can push is steadily becoming a non-issue though.

Re:Right...

[ivan256]

That still doesn't have anything to do with whether the architecture is NUMA or not. Neither of these platforms are going across multiple busses to hit their memory. Don't think of NUMA as a performance hit for some addresses in the cell architecture. Think of it as a performance boost for memory that's only being used by a single cell. All accesses go through a single switch fabric that (depending on the internals that Sony hasn't told the public about) could easily be faster than the bus model that the i

Unified shading

[hackwrench]

You're thinking of unified shading.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q= unified+shading+rendering+xbox [google.com]

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1145/The-Xbox-36 0-Dissected/p3/ [teamxbox.com]

Re:Unified shading

[Intocabile]

Unified shading is completely different beast, although a boon for the Xbox 360 over the PS3. It doesn't really factor much into the subject of the HD era asides from the fact it should be much more efficient then current PC GPU architectures including the PS3's.

Re:Right...

[apoc06]

PC developers have provided multiple resolutions for years. i dont see why this gen of consoles would be any different.

most likely it will be a developer choice: design a decent framerate game at 1080p and allow users to downgrade to 720p and watch the framerate skyrocket. or they can design for 720p and rely on the console to upconvert to 1080p where it twitches and dies. also, there are very many developers that believe in providing the very best experience for gamers; team ninja would opt for 1080p if th

Re:Huh?

[yasth]

Or is he saying "If you thought the X360 bundles were heinous, wait until you see us bundle a Sony HDTV with the PS3!"

Hey at least it makes sense, and would be useful. The real problem will be the bundled Stealh BluD and any other real bombs Sony can fit in. I mean there is precedent for them bundling movies, they did it with the PSP. And what a way to pull out ahead in the disc wars, at least in terms of discs "sold". Who cares if they all end up being dumped in haz mat bins.

Really if they knew what was go

This just in, company says their product is better

[Headcase88]

So Sony says true HD won't be out until the Sony PS3 eh?

And I'm pretty sure any company x will say hot buzzword y won't truly be available until x's product z which features y comes out.

Let me try. S-CORE* technology won't reach its peak until the Headcase, um, SilverStar is released. Yeah.

*I made that term up. Please shoot me if it actually exists.

Of course it exists ;)

[BitterAndDrunk]

Interestingly enough, it's for surfing:
Goat.cx [salomonscore.com]
The page stinks to high heaven but there's the reference. And HeadCase wasn't a bad choice either, considering we're dealing w/surfers.

ummm?

[Klinky]

Just because Sony makes an array of HD products doesn't mean they're work better than mixing/matching. Just like how having an HP printer hooked up to an HP computer, doesn't suddenly make your prints look better than if you had it hooked up to a Dell.

Sony HD When?

[smaffei]

Now. Ooops, wait a sec... How about now? Has it happened yet Sony? Tell me, is it now?

Is there where I tell Sony to bite me?

[Kris_J]

I have one of these [z500series.com] on order. Might even arrive today. Now, I don't give a toss about "High Definition", but that specs page seems to make reference to HD a few times and with network connectivity appears to be able to play HD stuff without having to worry about a specific HD disc format. Seems to have all the interfaces too. Don't know if it has this stupid DRM crap that seems to have infected the HD standards, but then I just have an old 68cm TV with a nice S-Video input that looks pretty good from a

Where have I seen this before?

[tepples]

Sony is using classic vapour [wikipedia.org] to promote a product that has "PlayStation" and a number in its name. Where have I seen this before? [wikipedia.org]

Yeah, right.

[RyoShin]

I'll get into HD when the following requirements are met:

1) They become much cheaper
2) 60% of TV is HD-ready WITHOUT having to buy an "HD Channel Package"
3) Most of the movies/shows I want come out in an HD format (preferrably not Blu-Ray)
4) They announce the successor to HD

Think Sony, Eat Sony, Sleep Sony

[Xabora]

So... belive everything that sony says or decide yourself. ;)

Which law are Sony breaking today?

[iainl]

Wait a sec, can we just get this clear?

Is Sony DELIBERATELY MIS-SELLING consumers TVs which claim to be HD Ready but can't display a 1080p picture?

Or is Sony DELIBERATELY LYING to consumers when they claim that an output at 720p or 1080i is not HD?

Because I'd quite like to know whether they are breaking consumer law, or merely slandering Microsoft.

Value chain

[mwvdlee]

I always believe something when it has the words "value chain" in it.
Now if only all this Sony crap could be "synergetic" in some way, I'd buy it.

Depends on your point of view

[warcin]

While the games on the X-Box 360 are HD I think one of Sony's points is that the 360 does not have either format of HD DVD drive in it. The drive is just a standard DVD drive. And since Microsoft always touts the X-Box as a multi-media platform not just a game counsle I believe that the arguement that it is not a true HD machine is valid. The Playstation 3 will be the only one of the next generation console to include a High Def DVD drive in it (at least at launch).