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Games Entertainment

God Mode 38

Posted by Zonk from the onward-christian-gamer dept.
1up has an interesting look at the curious place where religious beliefs and gaming habits intersect. From the article: "'We view games as just games,' says Kendrick Kenerly, founder of +CGO+, Christian Gamers Online. 'They all boil down to a few things: They have a goal, they have a reward for the goal, and they have a set of rules that need to be followed to reach the goal. The violence in most games isn't something we get worked up about. It's merely presentation, simply a way to convey an experience to players so they can follow the rules to reach the goal.' Abstract games like checkers, chess, and Monopoly operate in the same fashion, Kenerly argues-they merely employ different presentation methods."
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  • That's right (Score:3, Funny)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @07:40PM (#14468240) Homepage
    Killing pawns and rooks is obviously intended to desensitize people into more violent means of expression. Why do you think there are so many smelly people who do medieval reenactment?

  • The Warrior Man (Score:5, Interesting)

    by teratogenicbenzene ( 887723 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @07:56PM (#14468377) Homepage
    The article brings up an interesting point that I've always used to defend myself against more radical religious elements I've come into contact with:

    Men are fricking war machines, and throughout nearly any of the world's holy books war is a fact of life: the Bible, the quran, (heck even the Bhagavad-Gita is narrated in a war setting).
    In today's culture, men are told that the very things that selected their genes for greatness in the past (i.e. warrior prowess and the ability to survive) are liabilities. Thousands of years of genetic selection aren't going to be reversed in a few hundred years.
    In that vein, I believe video games are a reasonable (and even constructive) outlet for a man's natural agressions. It could be said that God made men this way, so who are we to deny that?

    For me, my faith is almost exclusively about self control, but at the same time I'm fully aware of my own humanity. Having a safe and (legal) outlet for myself is a wise choice. Obviously, games can become pathological, but that's true about anything.

    My personal poison is Halo, and I've found that during the game I increasingly find myself looking after the welfare of my marine NPCs. I do generally tend to steer away games that are violent for violence sake. I think if you look back, the reason so many early games were generally pointless (i.e. DOOM's run-and-shoot mentality) is because back then that was already pushing the limits.

    Just my two cents. Most rabid religious types are simply afraid of change. There are some of who aren't blindly reactionary, and realize that this isn't an bridge we want to burn our credibility/time over. Don't lump us all together.

    • Re:The Warrior Man (Score:4, Interesting)

      by ShamusYoung ( 528944 ) on Friday January 13, 2006 @08:36PM (#14468650) Homepage
      Men are fricking war machines,

      You have nailed it.

      For those that doubt it. Take a peek at nature. I think people would be shocked at just how much of our violent behavior is a result of base, primitive drives that reflect behaviors we see in animals. Even the most timid, rotund little accountant has the genes for skull-splitting combat buried beneath all the layers of civilization.

      Think about the first time your girlfriend was attracted to another guy. How did you feel? Upset that she was so feckless? If you were a teenager, you probably wanted to kick his ass, even though that doesn't make any sense. That's the same wiring used when males needed to compete, via combat, for the right to mate. Now there it is in your 15-year-old civilized brain and you don't know what to do with it.

      You can't educate these drives away, and the next best thing is to find a non-destructive way in which to satisfy those primal urges. Sports are another way to accomplish this [shamusyoung.com].

      We have other base drives, and we (ahem) manage to satisfy those even when we're not in a position to actually mate. Take sports and games out of our lives, and those primal combat drives will still be there, but we will be without the tools to deal with them.

    • My personal poison is Halo, and I've found that during the game I increasingly find myself looking after the welfare of my marine NPCs. I do generally tend to steer away games that are violent for violence sake.

      I've noticed that too. I have no problem playing Halo objective games - I'm only killing them because they're in the way of the flag. I used to have a problem with Slayer; if it's Team Slayer I'm now more or less fine with it (but I'm not good), but if it's free-for-all I don't get the point. I tried
      • I used to have a problem with Slayer

        I usually never play Slayer, because I just dont see the point and Free For All slayer tends to have a lot less of the strategy elements involved that Capture the Flag does. I absolutely agree with you about Doom.
    • I don't know any "more radical religious element" that even believes in evolution, natural selection or genes, so how can you explain anything to them when the reasoning is based on those scientific principles?

  • Most violent book I have ever read (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) * <fidelcatsro&gmail,com> on Friday January 13, 2006 @08:07PM (#14468460) Journal
    You know the most violent book I have ever read.. The Tanakh (What Christians would call the old testament)
    It has sexual assault , Genocide , All forms of Killing , Hell The entire Human race is drowned to death bar 1 family.
    You know what though , it is an enjoyable read , filled with many philosophical and metaphysical thoughts .

    Games .. well they are a lot of fun , a good experience that you can live through , something that would be impossible or out and out idiotic in real life.
    They allow people to de-stress , perhaps live out some primal urges and have a lot of fun. You can even learn things on occasion.
    It's all about how you look at it.

    You could see either as pure blood thirsty pieces .. or perhaps you could look a little deeper , not take them so literally (that one goes out to the Creationists) and just have fun .. and perhaps learn something.
    • It includes such gems as a woman driving a tent spike through a guy's temple and into the ground, or a guy stabbing a fat man with a dagger so deep that the fat closed back over the hilt of the weapon so he couldn't get it back out. Surprisingly gory at times.

    • You don't read the Bible for the gore, though. A lot of stories are horribly violent, but the point is either (rarely) to scare you away from doing something or (more often) to demonstrate that horrible violence is really horrible. And a couple of times, like in Revelations, it's more poetic.

      A lot of people are interested in video games because of the gore. And I don't mean that you should take out all blood and make everything like Pokemon (where you don't die, you "faint") - it makes sense to include what
  • From the article: "Many people seem to have this misconception that somehow Christian means nonviolent.

    However, there was this guy named Jesus who said:
    But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

    And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

    Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not t
    • I think the point is that they can play FPSes and blow their competitors up with rocket launchers repeatedly without actually hating them, because it's all pretend. You know, just like any other normal person can do.

    • Too bad Jesus wasn't a Christian.
    • And yet the bible says people asked Jesus whether they should then ignore the old testament, and he replied that they must not.

      So how to fix this paradox?
      • Well, as a previous poster pointed out, Jesus wasn't a Christian. He was a Jew, and as such, worshipped Jehovah. The Hebrew/Aramaic Scriptures (the "old testament") includes the book of Psalms, and if you read Psalm 11:5, you'll find this:

        Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.

        Also take note of 1 Chronicles 22:8. King David wants to build a temple to the name of Jehovah. Here's the response:

        But Jehovah's word came against me,
      • "And yet the bible says people asked Jesus whether they should then ignore the old testament, and he replied that they must not. So how to fix this paradox?"

        Which paradox are you talking about?

        If you look at the bulk of the laws in the Pentateuch, they were given to the Jews/Israelites as part of their "contract" with God.

        I'm not sure whether those laws are to binding to non-jews living out of Israel (still investigating). However, I figure the laws from God are good, so even if they aren't binding, one can
        • But the trouble with your reply and the other posters reply is that you both chose particular bits of the bible to back up your point. What about the parts in the old testament where God kills lots of people, where God asks other people to kill for him, and so on.

          You say that people point out the murder etc in the bible and say they miss the point. You can't just dismiss it, but have to say why you can ignore those parts and only select the parts you want.
          • Of course there's tons of murder and killing in the bible, no surprise there's tons of bad stuff recorded there - much of it is about history.

            And yeah God does kill people. Why? Well for one I figure he loves some people more than others and plays favourites, and for another it's the way he's chosen to do stuff in this world[1].

            e.g. he picked the Jews to be his chosen people (well, one reason is because of Abraham but I guess there must be other reasons as well). Even today it is obvious to nonbelievers the
            • It makes you wonder though... What if I don't think there is a God, but I think there is but I disagree with him morally?
              • Yeah. It does make one wonder. I have been struggling with a few things myself.

                That said, I personally think things aren't as simple as the fundamentalists (whether christians or atheists ;) ) believe, so I shouldn't wish to make any premature conclusions.

                For example, the first miracle Jesus did was to turn water into wine.

                The "obvious"/"efficient" thing would have been to just create wine from nothing (those "creationists" might like that sort of thing, heh).

                But, no as pointed out by someone recently, he a
          • There were clear reasons in the bible as to why God told the isreal to kill or wipe out an entire town. In one case, the cannaites used their children as human sacrifices to false gods made of pieces of wood and stone. They cut the children up and used the blood. So they got wiped out. And rightly so. But the violence in games and movies are gratuitous violence. There is no comparison.

        • "I'm not sure whether those laws are to binding to non-jews living out of Israel (still investigating)."

          The "contract" (called a covenant) that God made with Abraham is clear. The Jewish people will be used so that all the nations will be saved.

          All nations = all people.

          "You will become the father of many nations. So your name will no longer be Abram [Exalted Father], but Abraham [Father of Many] because I have made you a father of many nations. I will give you many descendants. Many nations and k
        • The only rules that apply to non Jew's throughout the Tanakh are the Noahidie laws

          Avodah zarah - No idol worship / false gods (It is arguable as to what defines a false g-d .. or is it just the cultures interpretation of Adonai )
          Shefichat damim - don't kill people (unless in self defence)
          Gezel - Do not steal
          Gilui arayot - No sexual immorality (defined by the culture if you go with Liberal/reform Judaism .. or fairly strict one husband one wife by Orthodox standards)
          Birkat Hashem -Don' blaspheme ( against y
    • So your saying Jesus only PvE's?
    • From the article: "Many people seem to have this misconception that somehow Christian means nonviolent.

      However, there was this guy named Jesus who said:
      But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

      Thats nice, but apparently many so called Christians do not live by that code. A true Christian would not seek vengence for any misdeed by another party.

      This would mean murder of a love one, attack by another nation, nor attacking anyone
      • In reply to:
        "personally, I have found Buddhism to be more compatible with Jesus's teachings than modern day Christian Chruch dogma."

        To quote Gandhi:
        "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."


        Many of the poorly run organized religions of today have distorted the message of Jesus. Jesus and his good news was about God's Kingdom, and how we could be part of that kingdom.

        Jesus never once endorced religion, as is proven by his contempt for the reli
      • A true Christian would say "Such is the will of god. I will forgive them for their sins and I shall be rewarded in the afterlife by the grace of god and my faith no matter what anyone does to me".

        I have to disagree, an informed Christian would not say "Such is the will of god" about anything evil that happens. Christians believe God allows bad things but it is never his will that they happen. Evil is an unfortunate result of when man uses his free will in rebellion against God's perfect Will.

  • This reminds of a time in WoW... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wilgibson ( 933961 ) on Saturday January 14, 2006 @02:53AM (#14469951)
    I was doing one of The Barrens instances and we kept wiping. This mage would always say it was Gods will for us to have to start over, so we would learn. In all actuallity he was trying to tank. We booted him and got another mage, finshing it no problem.

    Now that I think of it, God was trying to teach a lesson. Not to me or the others in the party, just that mage. And the message was "That's nice, LEARN 2 PLAY!"
  • So what about the famous fifth commandment, the one that says, "Thou shall not kill?" -FTA The fifth commandment actually is the one that says "Honor your father and mother."

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