Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Games Entertainment

Hollywood Reporter on Game Writing 52

Posted by Zonk from the they-do-indeed-write-them dept.
Via GameSetWatch, a story at the Hollywood reporter site on the process of writing a videogame. From the article: "'For me, writing is like gold,' says David Perry, president of Atari's Shiny Entertainment studio. 'It saddens me a lot that many video game companies don't hire triple-A writers and that they use their game designers instead. That's why, when real writers look at video game stories, they kind of roll their eyes. But that's something that I see changing, I really do.'" This guy probably has more than a little bit to do with that.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Hollywood Reporter on Game Writing More

Hollywood Reporter on Game Writing

Comments Filter:

  • Writing a good game is unbelievably hard. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Monday January 23, 2006 @01:36PM (#14541368)
    I sympathize with the writers a bit on this one. We're not just talking about 'adapting' a story from book or play to the big screen, which is fraught with its own perils. Writing for the interactive screen is really an entirely new discipline, and one that we are still struggling to understand and create a common language for. If you think about something like the film Memento, and what would be required to write that properly - then imagine that you could experience that linear flow of events from multiple vantage points, multiple timelines... it gets pretty hairy, pretty fast. Then throw in the fact that characters - including the protagonist - can have multiple responses and conversational threads... eccchh. (Anyone remember Ultima 3? What keyword can I bounce off this NPC that will make them regurgitate the clue I need... I resorted to pseudo-dictionary-attacks on some of those).

    Also, the expectations for 'game time' are way beyond what a film offers. The amount of dialog in some games is comparable to a novel (those epic RPGs with 20, 30, 40+ hours in them). No wonder the quality suffers.

    • The amount of dialog in some games is comparable to a novel (those epic RPGs with 20, 30, 40+ hours in them). No wonder the quality suffers.

      No, that's not actually true. You forget that by far the biggest time-consumer in an RPG is combat, which has very little text compared to dialogue.

      The reason most RPG stories stuck (even Final Fantasy stories) is that their inspiration is typically fantasy literature, which has always had a potboiler reputation, and because their target audience is easily impressed wi
      • Most of the examples you have cited are very linear RPGs, meaning there's a lot of control as to where the main character is, what they're doing, etc. There's little conversation choice, so it's a lot easier to craft a decent storyline out of it. That's one reason why I like many "old school" or Japanese-style RPGs. The stories, while not amazingly great (I'm sure a lot is lost in translation), can still be surprisingly deep and entertaining.

        However more open-ended games like Knights of the Old Republic, Fa
        • However more open-ended games like Knights of the Old Republic, Fable, or Morrowind have a lot of the problems that the grandparent mentioned. I find those games do suffer a lot in the storyline angle. (Not that it's always bad, but it's much harder to succeed)

          One way to overcome this is to leave some of the "story" in the mind of the reader. It's not easy to do itself, but when it works it can be potent. This is one of the things that make Nethack interesting, in that the game is so complex that it begs
  • I guess these guys have never heard of them.
    • Well, adventure games are generally an ignored genre at the moment. Of course Infocom featured some of the best writing seen in any computer entertainment, Lucasarts made some *wonderful* games, and there's even the occaisional recent success like Phoenix Wright. But on the whole, there are not a lot of adventure games being released these days. Perhaps it's even directly because of their great emphasis on story.

  • This is the right thing to pick... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jclast ( 888957 ) on Monday January 23, 2006 @01:37PM (#14541380) Homepage
    If you're developing a game, and you've only got so much money to go around, story is the right thing to cut some corners on.

    How many of us play Super Mario for the story? Or Sly Cooper? Or Ikaruga? I'd much rather see fun games with crappy or non-existant stories than great stories with a crappy game wrapped around it.

    I've shelved quite a few games due to control problems or difficulty frustrations, but I've never put down a game that was fun to play because the story was sub-par.
    • I agree totally. Remember the John Carmack quote: "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

    • I've shelved quite a few games due to control problems or difficulty frustrations, but I've never put down a game that was fun to play because the story was sub-par.

      I have a different perspective. I enjoy FPS games, for the most part. I enjoy both the multiplayer and single player modes. Of all the FPS games out there, I think I've played all the way through two of them in my entire life. The reason for that is that game play inevitably becomes repetitive. Run and shoot and shoot and run. Gee, after ab

      • I thought this might happen. I enjoy plots in video games a lot. I play many RPGs for this reason and because I like most of the battle systems.

        The story and QTE in Shenmue was what kept me hooked.

        My point is that the first thing any game needs is good, fun, and/or interesting mechanics.

        Would you have finished either of those games if the AI was crap, it was too easy, and it just didn't seem fun?

        Story is important in some games, but solid gameplay mechanics still come first because if the _only_ thing I wan
      • I don't know Marathon 2, but your description reminds me of System Shock [wikipedia.org]. Loved playing that game, obsessed by Shodan and figuring out what happened on that space station.
    • I disagree, some of the REALLY good games in most genres are known not for their graphics but their gameplay and stories.
      RPG: Too many to mention. Final Fantasy and KOTOR stand out.
      RTS: Warcraft 3
      Not-sure-what category: GTA
      Adventure: Every friggin one

      If developers really needed to cut somewhere, I would cut on graphics. I would rather have great gameplay, a great story, and decent graphics over great gameplay, a crappy story, and good graphics. The exception would be FPSs. That genre lives and dies
    • I think you're right, but it can go either way really.

      Its the games that have *both* that are the ones everybody has to have. Think Halo, Metal Gear Solid, etc. Those are the games that are all around well-built, and that includes the story.

      The obvious exception is online multiplayer modes. Like UT or Quake. Even Command and Conquer. Playing against other people IS the point, so you don't care about the story.

      But then again, you've got WoW and the like, where the story is actually important again..
    • If you're developing a game, and you've only got so much money to go around, story is the right thing to cut some corners on.

      I say cut the graphics first. A strong plot with strong gameplay makes for a great game no matter what it looks like. The classics from 10 years ago stand out because they have awesome gameplay, not because they're graphically impressive. One of the reasons Nethack is so brilliant is that the graphics are so simple that most developer effort can be put into balancing game play.

      So cu
    • There's a genre of games, called "adventure games", which rely primarily on story, and dialogue, to provide their entertainment. The story is their gameplay mechanic. Planescape Torment, The Longest Journey, the venerable Quest for Glory, the eminent Monkey Island, and of course Chrono Trigger... without good writing, these games would not be worth playing. At all.

      Even more traditional games, such as first-person shooters, can benefit greatly from a good story. Without the story, Half-Life and Deus Ex wou

  • hahaha (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ender Ryan ( 79406 ) on Monday January 23, 2006 @02:15PM (#14541802) Journal
    Yeeeeaaaahh... 'cause Hollywood writers are so fantastic eh?

    Just the thought of a Hollywood writer rolling their eyes at *anything* seems so laughable to me. I mean... COME ON, Hollywood is where the stupidest stories in the world are thought up!

    • We're with you in scoffing at the idea that Hollywood churns out Charlie Kaufmans or William Faulkners -- but it's worth pointing out that movies based on video games have been, almost universally, excruciatingly bad.

      Even next to such pedestrian fare as the run-of-the-mill Ahnold ouvre... Well, "Kindergarten Cop" would pretty well kick the pants of any "Warcraft" title. Not to mention the painful voice acting.

      (My choice for a model gaming company in this sense would be the pre-MS Bungie. Marathon Series

  • A video game is not a "story". A video game is a place that you go.

    If there's too much "story" in a video game, you end up with what the industry derisvely calls a "track ride", where the player is locked onto a track and must ride through the storyline. Once that was necessary, because we couldn't build big free-play worlds. Today, it's not. We're also past the "cut-scene era", where the cut scenes had the good graphics while the game graphics looked like crap. That's been fixed.

    It's hard for scre

    • It was because of the story in FFX that I actually decided to pick up a controller and start playing games (first time since Tetris), instead of watching my brother do it all.

      Since then, I've been hooked on playing games just to get to the story. Neverwinter Nights? Played because of the story. Warcraft 3? Played because of the story.

      I can put down a game with fantastic graphics and great gameplay, but if it doesn't have a story, I'll probably get bored with it fairly quicky and not pick it up ever

    • The future is AI-driven NPCs that can say and do something clever in response to events. It's not some voice-over "These are the Mountains of Dispair, which you must cross".

      Maybe, maybe not. The thing you are missing is the dialogue and actions of the NPCs (whether AI or actor driven) have to be written. A good game for me includes a good story that provides motivation and a framework for action. The problem is, by focusing too much on just the gameplay, games end up hiring a third-rate hack that writes

    • Video games are stories. They are stories that you are actually a part of, and that's the difference between Hollywood and the game industry (EA excepted).

      Everything you do requires a narrative framework in which to do it, otherwise you have a nihilistic sandbox with no victory condition. Games require rules, victory conditions, and the ability to act in regard to the rules, else it's not a game by definition. Whether you recognize it or not, the idea of the game is simply a narrative in motion.

      If pl

    • I think you're being too restrictive here: it's entirely possible to have a game where there's an involved, engaging story and a sense of place without feeling you're on rails.

      A bunch of examples I can think of

      • Morrowind
      • Planetscape Torment
      • System Shock 2
      • Deus Ex
      • Marathon

      The latter three are on rails to some extent since each level is somewhat mission oriented, but there's an evolving story in all of the above that's quite engaging. You can ignore the main plot line in Morrowind for at least 50 hours

  • Chris Avellone is "only" a game designer. And he has crafted one of the most complex and beautiful storylines ever made in any medium, not just video games.
  • Please HL was not written in the context of an "interactive story", it was simply a script where every decision leads you down a pretermined path, hardly interactive.

    Chris Crawford is the one everyone should be listening to. Especially his latest book. Every game "writer" should have this on their shelf.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Crawford_(game_ designer) [wikipedia.org]

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321278909/qid=11 38049708/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-9723489-7707326?n =507846&s=books&v=glance [amazon.com]
  • There are a couple of issues at play here. The first to sprout here in the comments is a debate between whether stories are important or are trivial. (Generally taking the shape of "Who plays these things for the story?" vs. "Who doesn't?") I'm not sure this is really a debate that's going to come to a finite end, much like the graphics vs. gameplay debate that has been bitterly fought since, well, the beginning of games.

    The second issue, I guess, regards the purpose of the game itself. Should the gam

  • How about the movies based on games? The majority I've seen have been big, big stinkers... even when based on games with a very doable plot for a movie. Half the time the take a name and throw something completely unrelated out as a movie, or they maim and damage the original plot so badly that the pile of crapulance simples adds another steaming clod onto a pile of otherwise steaming clods of game-based movies.

    Maybe if Hollywood had a better track record of non-suckage I might agree with the reporter...

  • Apples and oranges (Score:3, Insightful)

    by joystickgenie ( 913297 ) <joleske@joystickgenie.com> on Monday January 23, 2006 @06:46PM (#14544413) Homepage
    Comparing video game to movies and books isn't a good test honestly. They have completely different types of content.

    Video games are closer to television then they are to books or movies in term of content. Movies and books have long interwoven stories that are built on character development and plot twists for entertainment. Because video games give the player choices plot twists are more difficult to pull of without making the player feel like they have no control. Television and video game have much different paths to follow for entertainment.

    Sports broadcasts: Sports games
    Cartoons: Platformers
    Documentaries: historical games
    Reality TV: the Sims
    Dramas and thrillers: adventure games and action games
    Sci fi and fantasy shows: RPGs

    So to me the better comparison for games writing would be the writers for television shows.

    You don't watch The Kids Next Door, Ed Edd and Eddie, or Totally Spies for the plot, just like you don't play Mario, Ratchet and Clank, or Jak and Daxter for the plot either. If you're watching TV for a plot you watch shows like 24 or lost, if you are playing games for the plot you play games like the longest journey or killer 7. Just like television not all the writers are that great, but there are some good ones, and they are getting better.

    Although television is closer it is still not a perfect comparison. In television the viewer has no control and this gives e writers a lot les to worry about. A script writer never has to worry about "what if the protagonist decides not to peruse the antagonist." They know that the protagonist will do it because they say he will. In games to more choices you take away from the player the less they feel they are playing the game and more they feel they are watching the game. It's a hard balance to maintain and it is a challenge that is pretty unique to writing for games.
  • Like Enter the Matrix and Path of Neo had any really good writing to begin with.

    I understand what he's talking about, I just don't see where he's coming from on this though.

Slashdot Top Deals

Put your Nose to the Grindstone! -- Amalgamated Plastic Surgeons and Toolmakers, Ltd.

Close