PlayStation 3 May Play Too Much 367
Businessweek has a piece looking at the PlayStation 3, worrying that Sony is confusing the consumer with all of the technology it's trying to work into the console. From the article: "Some question whether Sony is trying to cram too much into the new box. The PS3 is expected to cost $350 to $400. While it has the potential to be a megahit, Sony's message might get muddled in the process of going after too broad a market, says Deutsche Securities analyst Takashi Oya. 'It would be difficult to sell PS3 initially as anything other than a game machine,' Oya says. Sony declined to comment on such concerns."
It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember the Dreamcast? Dial-up modem, the whole thing. It tried to do too much at the time, before the consumers were ready for it.
I don't care if blue ray IS the next big thing. Its not the big enough thing now to get the word out that the PS3 is more than a game machine.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Interesting)
> before the consumers were ready for it.
The Dreamcast was nothing special. I know there are always a few people who say "No, I liked $game" but it just didn't inspire people to buy it. But they certainly didn't fail to buy it because they were afraid it would do too much.
There's "costs too much". The PS3 might do alot of stuff, but the problem at the mo with Xboxs and the like is that they only really add `playing games` to a list of things which you can already do on a £30/$50 DVD, but they charge ten times the cost of that DVD player to do it. Unless you're a hardened gamer, or very well off, that's just really terrible value for money.
It may be 'cuz I'm stoned... (Score:3, Interesting)
They killed the Saturn with one sentence : "It's 100$ cheaper".
They killed the competition with : "It plays DVDs".
Even though I deem it not feasible, they have been known to surprise people.
My greatest fear about their show at next E3, would be "IT PLAYS DIVX".
Fucking scary...
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the same could happen with Blue Ray.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:3, Insightful)
It was a selling point for the PS2, but it'll only be a feature for the PS3.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:3, Insightful)
I myself made the same decision. However, between the time I decided that, and the PS2 was actually released, DVD player prices dropped to $150 or so. Since I was never all that interested in a game console
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember the Apple Newton, the TiVo, and plenty of other things that came to market before their time??
The thing is that the Playstation has a following for game developers and gamers. So long as it has good playable games it will do fine. If the other features work as advertised (or better), then that is icing on the cake. Only a few of us
If it works well with slideshows of pictures from a digital camera, and works well with HTPC kind of stuff, then that is only free advertising to sell more of these boxes. If it sucks at playing games, no matter how good the extra stuff is, it will fail. If they are able to pull off all of the extra bells and whistles, I see no problem with it selling or confusing the user, and it will only be an extra plus to the system in general.
I don't even play video games, and I'm planning on buying the 2nd rev of the PS3 when it comes out. The graphics and capabilities of the thing seem amazing, and who knows, maybe I'll learn how to play a game or two.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2, Insightful)
Above is the way many "experts" think of American consumers. They are actually some of the best informed, most sophisticated buyers in the world. But it's easier to be elitist than thoughtful.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:3, Insightful)
If kids' friends have them, and they play them at their houses, and decide they like them, then they'll get their parents to put one on
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
hm, what about NO?
a gaming console should be able to play games, end of story
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Interesting)
If they're gonna get on in every living room, marketeing it as the next gen HD movie format, they're gonna have to sell it to my mom and dad too. I don't know anybody's mom and dad that watch movies on their PSP. You see the difference in scale i'm talking about?
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this is the main problem with games today. We're stuck trying to appease adolescent males, and I think the ideas have run out. For the love of god, no more midless war games, shitty first person shooters, and games with pointless displays of scantily clad women.
Now I'm not saying those games don't have a place in the industry. My problem is that they ARE the industry. While I'm not even sure I want a next-gen console, at least Nintendo's Revolution gives off the _appearance_ of trying something different.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:3)
Palm LifeDrive... (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
when you cram lots of things into a device that does everything, it's unlikely that any single thing will be done well.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
A better question is why do they own toasters when an iron can make better toast?
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:Terrible argument, IMO... (Score:2)
Try cooking a roast or a 30 lb. turkey in an oven, and see how far you get.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
c'mon
have a look at the nintendo ds
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:5, Insightful)
People don't want to be able to do everything with one device. The Treo isn't a rampant success; it's just successful relative to other devices that try to combine multiple functions. And the Treo isn't that good of a device.
I'll give you a poor analogy - I work in film, and film meetings go like this: "This is a great idea, but we need to dumb it down." The intelligence benchmark used by the film industry is a 12 year old boy. This isn't to say that they gear products toward 12-year old boys (although they do) but to say they assume the avarage audience, regardless of age or demographic, to be that smart. Why? Because people hate feeling that they're not smart - or that there's something going on behind the curtain they can't comprehend. The worst thing that happens with a dumbed down film is that people figure everything out (and feel good about themselves for doing so). In this instance, the industry did its job in serving up an opiate. Hence IPOD - one wheel - anyone can use it. Hence the dumbest movies making the most money. Most people would rather something banal and predictable because it affirms them, rather than something that does not.
To conclude, you do not want a device that does all things. Complex technology often reminds people that they know little to knowing of tech. It smacks of purposeful obscurity (I've witnessed marketing tests where test subjects get mad, bang the unit on the table like an ape, then complain that the designers don't want the working man using their products). Nintendo is right in that most people don't play games because the user interface looks intimidating from the outside in (You have to step into the shoes of someone unfamiliar with tech and just sees a bunch of buttons). Sony is in a can't lose situation - the PS installation is so huge, all they have to do is shut up about the device and deliver it soon before really good games start coming out for the 360. The only way they lose is if they self destruct. They've already started down the path.
Standard in films is that the classic hero doesn't do much talking. Why? Talking is considered weakness in films - most people talk not to convey something, but to hide something else. Sony is doing a lot of TALKING RIGHT NOW. People are justifiably nervous.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
But I disagree 'dumb' is the word to use. The iPod is extremely popular with geeks and non-geeks alike.
The reason complex tech doesn't get accepted is because, in most instances, the design sucks. Tech is supposed to help people, not hinder them. That's why a lot of early (and some current) PDAs failed - a pen and paper was more use
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Oh, too bad. I'll go into the past and tell the Wachowski Brothers that their idea of a guy trapped in a virtual world will become an utter failure. It's too smart for the public.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:2)
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:4, Insightful)
Exactly, because all of these technologies tie into where the game industry is almost certainly going, allowing Sony to already be in place as these innovations come into the mainstream. This means that they will not only have a strong grip on the console market, but they will also win the format and distribution war. As someone who works in the industry, I can tell you that Sony knows exactly what they are doing.
Re:It'll grow into itself. (Score:3, Interesting)
Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:5, Informative)
So what if ? No, wait... better: does anybody even expect to buy it as anything else than a gaming rig in the first place ?
XBox360, between 300 and 400. Games. Plus some other stuff.
PS3, between 350 and 400. Games. Plus some other stuff.
No idea on Nintendo.
Barebones but decent PC (plus cheap monitor or TVout capable), between 400 and 600. Trivial stuff. Plus some older games.
Reality check for PS3 ? Checked.
People who buy the PS3 will buy it *primarily* for the games ANYWAY.
They MIGHT use it for something else too, but at a price tag comparable to any other decent alternative, what's the harm ?
If anything (*shock*), people who didn't plan on buying it for games might actually buy the console.
Will PS3 games sales plummet because of that ?
If you look at it from a games sold per unit of console sold, then yes, that might go down.
But as an absolute number of expected sales... I really, really doubt a significant decline, no matter what anybody else might say.
Re:Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:2)
Revolution, between 200 and 300. Games. Just games.
Re:Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:2)
They seem
It should cost $400 initially... (Score:2)
Better buying from a store and money going to Sony than creating havoc in the first days and paying much more to an intermediate guy.
When stocks raises, down the price to a more affordable level.
Mod parent UP (Score:2)
Re:Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:2)
No, wait... better: does anybody even expect to buy it as anything else than a gaming rig in the first place ?
Well, the reasoning of the article is that the high price ($350-$400) is justified over the XBox-360 because it won't be just a game console. The article is essentially saying it will be looked at as just a game console, so the high price will have to be justified through that alone. He may be right too. How much is the X-Box 360 going to cost when the PS3 is launched?
My guess is that the PS3 is
Re:Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:2)
Re:Is this guy joking or what ? (Score:2)
Keep in mind that this guy works for the lowest common denominator of business journalism. Its parallel to Red Book for relationships, or Psychology Today for psych literature, and NewsWeek for "news".
The format for all of these magazines is as follows. Take regular mundane topic that most people know a little about, sensationalize it, make some assertions as if the journalist knows what they are talking about it to raise a little controversy, rinse, repeat.
The PS3 will do quite well if it has good games
Too Broad A Market? (Score:5, Insightful)
Who comes up with ideas like that. If anything more features will drive more sales. Don't need to buy a blu-ray player, the ps3 will do it, along with movies and music.
Both Sony and Microsoft are trying to put a media pc in our lounge rooms, and they're free to compete for my dollar.
Re:Too Broad A Market? (Score:2)
I don't think that's the issue here. The question is, are people willing to pay extra money for these features?
For example, I would be willing to pay $200-$250 for a system that simply plays games, but not $350-$400 for a game system that does a whole bunch of other crap that I don't care about.
I'm sure a lot of the rest of the potential market for the PS3 feels the same way.
$200-$250 for a new console? (Score:2)
The ps2 was one of the cheapest consoles (err the last generation was) but even then it was $300. Most older consoles including the psone came near $400-$500.
This monster will be about the price of the higher end xbox and it will have more features
Re:Too Broad A Market? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Too Broad A Market? (Score:2)
If the PS3 claims to replace your PS2, your DVD player, your ste
Re:Too Broad A Market? (Score:4, Insightful)
Check PSP (lots of features) VS DS (games, and only games).
Did the PSP outsale the DS because of it's extra features? Duh, no, it's been badly beaten by the DS...
DVD-VCR Combo (Score:2)
Re:Too Broad A Market? (Score:2)
Second Hand purchase (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Second Hand purchase (Score:2)
The cost of the NES (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone's looking at the past through rose colored glasses. The NES had two bundles:
$249: NES Console 2 Controllers Light Gun R.O.B (Robotic Operating Buddy) Gyromite (R.O.B game) Duck Hunt Super Mario Bros.
$199 NES Console 2 Controllers Super Mario Bros.
Games cost anywhere from $59 to $79....and this was in 1985 Dollars! the Atari 2600 IIRC launched around $400 and sold like hotcakes. In comparison, the Xbox360 and the Ps3 are right in line with every other system launch that preceded them.
Re:Second Hand purchase (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Second Hand purchase (Score:2)
There have been rumors about the range of DRM to be included in the PS3. Some rumors stated the console and the games will be locked to the original purchaser's console only, Sony's goal being to destroy the used game market that doesn't pass any money into Sony coffers.
Hard to imagine paying full retail for each and every game. And what happens when the PS3 breaks and you have to buy a new one? All your old games die with the broken console?
I hope this
Re:Second Hand purchase (Score:2, Interesting)
People start rumors because of that stupid root kit crap that Sony put out... which, by the way, was in an unrelated division of Sony that doesnt have direct relations with the gaming division
Even so, there probably will be some method of DRM incorporated in the future.. but it will not be restricted to the original buyer... thats just stupid economically... completely screwing the resale value... look at gamestop, or any other shops like i
Confuse the consumer? Do too much? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Confuse the consumer? Do too much? (Score:2)
That's not to say that more stuff is always better. Especially if it bloats the size, price, chance it will fail. No one want's to pay for features you don't use but sayi
This is how it works (Score:5, Insightful)
This is how it works when you are an analyst: Make anything sound negative. Either it has too little features, or then it has too many. Never is anything just right, or well done.
That way, if it fails, you can say "See, I called it". If it succeeds, you say it did so in spite of those shortcomings. That's how it works.
Re:This is how it works (Score:2)
then i noticed i don't have any mod points. problem solved!
Actually, Most Sell-Side Analysts Are Too Positive (Score:3, Interesting)
I would actually greatly prefer it if sell-side analysts were always saying things would fail for specific reasons. I generally find research to be
Cram as much as you can into PS3 (Score:3, Insightful)
If you have the technology to be the latest and greatest, why not?
Which is precisely the point... (Score:2)
That's precisely the problem, though.
The more you cram in, the higher the price goes. That's just the way things are. Now, it looks likely that the Xbox 360 will be cheaper than the PS3, and the Revolution will probably be quite a lot cheaper. Given that, will the PS3's superior hardware be worth the extra cost?
In theory one could probably cram half a dozen Opterons and a pair of top-end SLI nVidia cards into a
Re:Cram as much as you can into PS3 (Score:2)
What you want a consumer product to do is to incite acquisitive lust. What you don't ever want to be in the position of doing is having to explain what your product does. Nor do you want to be in the position of paying to support features that don't pay their way.
Furthermore, I'd go so far as to say that if two features have this IAL (Incites Acquisitive Lust) property, if at all possible you should not put them into the
Jack of All Trades (Score:2, Insightful)
Sony needs to make sure that they really come through one some of the features they are offering with the PS3. If the PS2 is any indication, Sony may be in for some tough times ahead. While at the time the PS2 was a great option for a cheap way to get a DVD player, its DVD menu system is absolutely horrendous. Also consider that the Emotion Engine never even came within flying distance of living up to its hype and expectations (expectations which
Kind of stupid comment (Score:2)
As long as Sony don't shoot themselves in the head (and I wouldn't put it past them) I imagine the PS3 will be an excellent games system first and foremost and with luck an excellent multimedia jukebox. Of course Sony being Sony they'll promptly royally fuck things up by putting some
George Foreman style (Score:2, Funny)
PSP = Bad Comparison (Score:5, Insightful)
since the PSP also plays music and movies, fewer people are buying games designed for it. In the PS2's initial
year on the market, players bought more than three games for each machine that was shipped. For the PSP, that
ratio slipped to 2 to 1.
I suspect that the reason for this was not the fact that the PSP can play music and movies, but the fact that
(and I'm bracing for the karma burn here) the PSP simply hasn't released enough quality games.
Sure, there are some good titles, but nowhere near enough of the quality and variety needed to really push the
PSP platform.
As long as the PS3 manages to maintain a game catalog akin to that of the PS2, it should do well. Having a slew
of additional features should not harm sales, as long as the games are there in force.
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
(Never mind that there wouldn't be enough range for folks with long commutes, or that
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
I use my PS2 for 3 things (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Playing PS1 games
3. Watching Movies
Hopefully I will use my PS3 for 4 things
1. Playing PS3 games
2. Playing PS2 games
3. Playing PS1 games
4. Watching Movies
Don;t forget the root kit (Score:2)
Just plug in, connect to the network and go!!!
As an added bonus, anyone who buys or hacks the Sony "vertical marketing module" will be able to access any in game contact information you've stored for online gaming! As a result, you'll be able to send v1argr@ popup ads to all your opponents and allies in on line MMPG games!
Isn't that COOL?!?!?
Backwards compatability (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Backwards compatability (Score:2)
PS2 was a runaway success because of its PS1 compatibility. The PS2 catalog is *huge* - to ditch that is a big mistake IMO.
You'll end up with the PSP situation... Nice box, no games.
OK, I'll correct you. (Score:3, Informative)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Sony stated that the PS3 will not have backwards compatability.
You're wrong.
By the way... (Score:2)
Just a hint.
Why not? (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd be clamoring for a $600 cell phone that plays music, watches video, manages my schedule, a 12" widescreen display... See my point here? Number one, we've tried the everything-to-everybody-devices before. They usually don't do that great.
Number two, it'll be hard to get the average non-gaming best buy shopper in the HDTV section to take notice of the PS3 over there in the 'kids' gaming section. They've got the PS3 name. Playstation = games. As of right now, Playstation != next gen HD movie content. It's possible, but they've got to get it out there.
Give my dad a reason to even LOOK at a ps3. He's a HD connoisseur like anybody else, but the thought of getting a PS3 wouldnt' even go through his mind.
Re:Why not? (Score:2)
Of course this is where I get confused. If the cheapest BR player is a grand and bigger than my stereo reciever, how on earth is the PS3 going to come in at less than half the price and no bigger than the 360?
I'm reserving judgement until I see the final product, but I think this is why no one has see the final product.
Re:Why not? (Score:2)
That's because the components Sony will put into the PS3 may be the same as they are with the PS2: bottom-of-the-line. The PS2 DVD player is one of the worst as far as playback. Sure, it plays movies. But that's about it. Any home theater enthusiast will be playing their movies on something else.
The BluRay drive in the PS3, besides helping with game storag
Initially (Score:2)
Nintendo called it (Score:3, Insightful)
The Revolution, similarly, is meant to play games and do very little else. Nintendo has said several times that they want to make GAME consoles, because people already have all that other stuff, and they can remain more focused this way.
There's nothing terrible about Sony's approach, but it MAY confuse some people. It certainly seems to be lifting the price.
Current DVD Players (Score:2, Insightful)
If sony can make it accessible to the customer, then the customer will buy it, if it also plays other formats, the customer will be more pleased when they randomly find this extra functionality. It will set the level of what consoles "should" supply as default and god help any which dont then fit this selection".
Turning a gaming console into... a computer (Score:2)
Essentially what they're doing is adding computer functionality to a gaming console. Sure, it would come in handy, but... a gaming console should just play games. Do I think it will kill the system? No. It will probably sell more becuase of the added features.
But they have to be careful how far they go... As long as you can still put a
I sure hope so. (Score:2)
The question isn't whether it has too many feature (Score:2, Insightful)
I will be able to play PS3 games.
Will I be able to play PS2 games I already own?
I will be able to watch DVDs.
Will I be able to watch DVDS from other countries?
I will be able to watch Blue-Ray DVDs.
Will I be able to watch Blue-Ray DVDs the way I want to watch them or the way the content industry wants me to watch them?
In a nutshell, the question isn't what it will enable me to do, the question is what will it keep me from doing.
Doesn't Matter. (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not saying it's gonna be a bad box - it's probably going to be great, which the Playstation 2 NEVER was. I'm saying that worrying that their aim is too broad just seems a little silly. I'm also saying that many Sony fans will pay too much for their console just because it's Sony.
Yes I know that history is litte
Lots of options have really hurt PC sales... (Score:5, Funny)
Definitely believe that (Score:2)
I don't need it to be a DVR, media server and game console as well as an outlet for online music and video sales.
The DVR feature will be a novelty as it won't integrate with Digital Cable networks allowing for seamless scheduling of HDTV content and digital channels. I rent a PVR from the cable company that allows me to record entire seasons of a show in High Def at the touch of a button, the PS3 won't be able to
I'm not sure i agree (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a bold statement if i ever saw one. The PS3 vill probably be priced O($500), and judging from what I've read about the upcoming first generation Bluray movie players, they aren't going to be cheap. Pioneer's have a $1800 player set to debut around march, and judging from this interview http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ces2006/pa
anyhoo, back to the subject. I'm willing to bet good money that a ½-decent salesman will be able to sell a 500$ PS3 to people with HDTVs who want a HD alternative to their regular DVDs if the alternative movie-only players are x2 the price.
Re:I'm not sure i agree (Score:2)
Re:I'm not sure i agree (Score:2)
Convergence has to be done right (Score:3, Insightful)
The big difference between Consoles and Computers nowadays is that the OS and core functions on one are on the hardware and are on volatile and modifiable storage on the other.
Build one size fits all device that doesn't suck and boots into the GUI in 3 seconds flat and you've got a sale on your hands. No matter how many features it's got.
Applications are what will matter (Score:2)
Also picture the CELL behind sound processing for home theater. Audiophiles who are toying w/ DSPs know what I am talking about, the
Let me get this strait (Score:3, Funny)
It can run ps3 games, and play movies.
Aaaccckkk! My head is aching. How is that possible!
It can also run ps2 games? That can't be possible! They you have to have an entire PS2 bolted onto the box. I think my head is ablout to explode! This is getting too complicated.
OH NO! It can also play PS1 games. I'M SO CONFUSED! Does it play PS1 games, or does it play PS2 games, or does it play PS3 games, or does it play movies? It can't possibly do more than one of them! My head is about to explode!
It has a little light on the front when you turn it on! How can it possibly turn on a light, and play games? That is impossible! Nobody could possibly do that! That would almost be like a VCR (Very Confusing Red-lights) that did something other than blink 12:00!
No more, I beg of you! Keep that infernal monster away from me!
Re:Comparable? (Score:2)