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XBox (Games) Businesses

Recovering From the Xbox 360's Big Mistakes 191

Posted by Zonk from the power-supply-that-warms-my-home dept.
Two pieces up in the media right now talking about problems with the Xbox 360. Games.net has an overdramatically title piece, Five Ways to Save the Xbox 360. The article lays out ways in which Microsoft should revamp the console and its games in order to truly dominate the next-gen war. Meanwhile, a 1up editorial asks the question Is the Xbox 360 Hurting the Games Industry? The article looks at the ways in which Microsoft's console was rushed out the door, and the negative consequences that may have on the industry as a whole. From that article: "More important, though less remarked upon, is that the Xbox 360 was also launched before the industry was ready. If you pay attention to companies' end-of-year financial reports, which I'm sad to say my job requires me to do, one thing that stands out in the postholiday reckoning was the statement, again and again, that the Xbox 360 launch had hurt sales across the industry."
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Recovering From the Xbox 360's Big Mistakes More

Recovering From the Xbox 360's Big Mistakes

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  • ...not manufacturing enough of the consoles in time. Only this weekend have the "Core" systems become generally available in my area and the "Premium" systems with the hard drive & other goodies will become available on a more regular basis later this week.
    • Their supply problems are definitely one problem, but not the biggest one. The supply problems may have been understandable if the XBox 360 was selling like hotcakes, but it's not. Having mediocre sales and STILL not being able to meet demand is bad news. Of course, their supply situation is still 100% better than the PS3.

      • Of course, their supply situation is still 100% better than the PS3.

        Just like the PS2, the US launch for the PS3 will most likely be in the fall to get the holiday sales. That could also depress sales of Xbox 360 games (and consoles) while people wait to see what games the PS3 has lined up. I'll be more interested in seeing the price of the PS3 at launch. If MS drops the price on the 360 as the PS3 arrives, it could make the 360 a tempting buy - especially if there are some good games available by the

      • How can you tell the difference between 'selling like hotcakes' and 'mediocre sales' when they're consistently sold out? It's a bit hard to judge demand when supply is so low. I may be misinterpreting, but it sounds like you're criticising lack of supply in what you perceive as a law demand situation. But given the low supply, it's mighty hard to accurately gauge the demand.
        • Well, first they weren't "consistently" sold out. Only in big cities in the US and UK they were sold out, in rural areas, continental Europa and of course Japan they were available, especially if you were willing to shop around a bit.

          Secondly, if you look at ebay, you will see XBox360s sold at around retail price (give or take $ 50). That means that most ebay-gamblers have given up making a profit on ebay and are trying to get rid of it.

      • Supplies of the XBox 360 are most likely being run down because of the over-heating issues i.e. failures beyond the 3 month warranty are likely to be high. High enough to probably cause long term sales problems so numbers out the door are reduced until cooling redesign.

        Ideal modern design is of course for failure once the warranty has elapsed but because of the internet and end users sharing their experiences this can have a disastrous effect on long term sales.

      • Having mediocre sales and STILL not being able to meet demand is bad news.

        It's impossible for these two conditions to exist simultaneously.

        If you don't have any to sell, then you're selling all that you have. That classifies as exceptional, not mediocre.

  • I'll wait until I get a XBox 360 for $100 USD. Heck, I'm still waiting for the regular XBox to drop to $100 USD. Something wrong with this picture.

  • Baffled by so-called 'failure' of 360 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Aphrika ( 756248 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @03:56PM (#14804829)
    As far as I'm concerned, the 360 wasn't launched before it was ready, but before the manufacturing process was ready - not really a point for failure. Software always comes later and the game certification issues sound like classic come-to-market problems. However here in the UK, we also suffered from PSP shortages, although not to the same extent. Sony launched the PSP here over a year behind its Japanese launch, and we still seem to have a certain lack of decent games for it - month in month out I go to the shops and it's the same damn games!

    That said, I own a 360 and I really like it. I didn't get mine in the first wave - there were only something like 50,000 allocated to the whole UK - but I did pick one up in early January and so far I'm pleased with what it does. Ok, so there's no 'killer' game, but I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer, but the few games I do have I find entertaining and great fun with friends. I'm not realy 100% sure what people mean by a 'next generation game', I bought the console specifically for its online capabilities and its ability to be a media extender. In those respects it's very, very good, and Nintendo and Sony have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Xbox Live.

    I'd be interested as to what people exactly thought the 360, PS3 and Revolution were going to do for gaming really. Every time a console is released a wave of hype about its features appears. We never really found out what an Emotion Engine enabled the PS2 to do differently, and ditto for the obilgatory USB/keyboard/hard-drive attachments that are mooted for each machine. The PS3 for me seems a little ambitious and I'm a bit too old school to like the Revolution controller (I'm saying that without obviously having used one, the opinion may change). All I bought my 360 for was to play HD games against other people in my lounge and the rest of the world, and in those respects it's been a success for me, and evidently for all the other people I'm playing against...
    • Rubbish!

      The Xbox 360 may or may not be a good unit but it's certainly early by console standards.

      The PS2 came out nearly a year before the Xbox 1 yet it's replacement we likely won't see for 6-9 months.
      Sure it's getting a little long in the tooth no doubt, but good high quality and fun games are still being made for it (We love Katamari, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, MGS3)

      The Xbox on the other hand is FINALLY getting some really good games coming out for it, it's more powerful than the PS2, it has bet
    • "I'm a bit too old school to like the Revolution controller."

      The irony of that statement is that by turning the Rev controller on its side, and you have the "old school" NES controller, which will be able to play most (all?) of the "old school" NES games via download. Just something to think about.

  • Comparisons to the PS2 Launch (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jchenx ( 267053 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:04PM (#14804866) Journal
    I see a lot of comparisons between the 360 launch and the PS2 launch. If you do some searching on Slashdot and Google, you can find several articles that talk about some of the general PS2 launch issues [1up.com] and the hardware problems [slashdot.org] the console had.

    Should Microsoft had learned from Sony's mistakes? Sure. Unfortunately, it's repeated a lot of the same problems: 1) Supply doesn't meet demand, 2) Lack of a killer launch title, 3) Hardware problems. (Actually, I think a lot of the 3rd issue could be solved with better messaging to buyers. Don't put the power brick in an enclosed space! Don't put your 360 on top of your already-warm TV! Otherwise, these same folks are going to have the same problem with the PS3 and Revolution)

    Anyway, so the 360 launch has the same issues as the PS2 launch. Yet we know how the PS2 ultimately dominated this console generation, so they are definately not insurmountable problems. Anyone (including the media), who is already forecasting doom and gloom for the system needs to be realistic. The real battle is going to be months from now, when the other consoles are released. The key for the 360 is going to be how the next round of games do (Gears of War, Oblivion, etc.), and winning those GTA3-level exclusives.
    • The Xbox 360 shouldn't have problems no matter where you put it. Sorry to say, but If I can't put the thing where I want to, then it's broken. Obviously things like putting it in your oven are a bad thing, but simply putting the power supply on carpet was reported to cause problems. I'm sorry, but not being able to put the power supply on the carpet is a little restrictive.
      • As a new owner of a 360 (less than a week) I can't yet see where this one came from. The power supply's vents are across the top of the thing, pulling air in one end and pushing it out the other. The air coming out of it is lukewarm, but the power supply itself doesn't get any warmer than my cell phone's wall wart, even after a 9 hour PGR3 session I put in while at work (night shift help desk job + VGA pack = win)

        The only thing I can imagine is that these people are just wildly dropping their 360 power br
        • How can people be so shortsighted?

          If a brand-new system just barely works (and the fact that Microsoft themselves put up many restrictions of where to put the unit/powersupply plus the problems people had who ignored the restrictions prove that the system is pretty much on the limit and even slight misuse will push it over the limit) will fail as soon as enough dust/durt collects and/or the bearings of the fans wear out so the fans become less efficient.

          This is a big problem in the US (because after the

      • The Xbox 360 shouldn't have problems no matter where you put it. Sorry to say, but If I can't put the thing where I want to, then it's broken. Obviously things like putting it in your oven are a bad thing, but simply putting the power supply on carpet was reported to cause problems. I'm sorry, but not being able to put the power supply on the carpet is a little restrictive.

        I have the power brick sitting behind my TV on carpet and I have no problems. I think the people that had problems were sticking it insi
    • The PS2 launch wasn't without it's problems, but they still had more hardware available on the first day than the 360 has had available in the first four months. You con't really compare the two launches in any meaningful way.

      One was a eventful, bumpy success, and the other was a total disaster.

  • This Is Stupid (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Primis ( 71749 )
    The only thing the XBox 360 has hurt is Sony and Nintendo's pride. They didn't take it seriosuly enough and MS beat them to market by a wide margin, with decent (but not great) launch titles (better launch titles than the PS2 ever had though). Oh yeah, and MS has the first real online gaming service with downloadable games that people seem to be flocking to.

    I can't fathom that in a week where all the talk has been about how much longer the PS3 is going to be delayed and that it'll cost around $800, people
    • First off, what makes you think you can throw the first stone at fanboys when actually you're the biggest - though, still obviously beardless - one of them? Ah, so you meant the _other systems'_ fanboys, riiight then. Aho ya, anta.

      I can't fathom that in a week where all the talk has been about how much longer the PS3 is going to be delayed and that it'll cost around $800, people are still trying to say that it's the fault of a next-gen console that's already to market and costs half of what the PS3 appar

      • but if one in 1000 Xbox2 units (let's not follow the naming propaganda, it's not like there have been 359 generations of Xboxen before...)

        Exactly. This is why I put a sticker on my N64 over the logo to really say NES3. I mean, come on! Nintendo didn't release 62 other consoles between the SNES and N64! I also renamed my SNES the NES2 btw, can't stand that marketing hype.

        64 indeed!

        It's just a name, they can name it whatever they want. Numbers don't have to mean generations. Personally I would have prefe

  • I think the 360 was an improvement (Score:5, Funny)

    by HalAtWork ( 926717 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:11PM (#14804900)
    The XBox was only able to drag its own sales down, but the XBox 360 is dragging down the sales of the entire industry. The power!!!
  • first off, I don't own a 360 or even an original xbox. I do own a PC however, which I use for most of my gaming.

    Now even though I don't own a 360, I own a wired 360 controller and headset. Why? because it's one of the best controllers you'll find on the PC, and the headset works great with teamspeak and allows me to use my speakers for actual game sounds while solely communicating through the headset.

    That being said, all of the other features, like Media Center functionality, future Vista support for Xbox L

  • might wanna wait to get an Xbox 360... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...until the next tiers of its release come out. This is being posted as AC because I got this info from an MS insider last night (part of their surveying and testing groups) who was drunk enough to start chatting openly, so listen up:

    Currently, the plan is to introduce MORE TIERS of Xbox 360 in the next 12 months. Thought the two current versions were bad enough? Supposedly, three more are coming--set to introduce bigger hard drives and MS Media Center functionality, along with "more HD support" (though I
    • It's always entertaining as hell to watch someone else punch themselves in the nuts. If this is where MS goes, that's pretty much what they'd be doing.
    • I got the same rumors online, but I wouldn't say it was a trustworthy source. :) This person may just be sharing the common rumors that are being told on the Microsoft campus.

      The idea makes sense however. Microsoft has been trying to get into the mainstream media market for some time now. The XBox360 could make a great DVR, movies-on-demand, and music jukebox. My guess is they are going to try to take on not only Sony, but Apple and Google as well.

  • The Xbox 360 and PS3 are both in trouble (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:29PM (#14804961) Homepage
    First, there's the price point problem. Rumors of the PS3 launching at $800-$900 are distressing. At that price, it just won't sell. Even the $299 for the XBox 360 is high, and trying to pump the price up higher by bundling overpriced extras isn't helping. Remember, the PS2 is only $99, and developers have already figured it out. It's going to take a few years before developers really figure out how to use the Xbox 360 and PS3 hardware effectively.

    After going to a talk at Stanford by the chief architect of the Cell processor, I'm convinced that the Cell people don't know how to use their array of eight little 256K CPUs for gaming. The speaker was clear on how you did things like RF processing for cell sites, but asked about what to do in games, said "that's Sony's problem". Remember, in the PS3, the Cell processors don't do the graphics; there's an NVidia chip for that. In the PS2, the vector processors do the graphics. From a developer perspective, these wierd machines are a huge pain. What we'd like is a multicore shared memory multiprocessor with a good graphics chip, so we can work on the game software instead of fussing with the hardware. From a business perspective, wierd architecture means that game profitability comes later in the life cycle of a console. Not good.

    Second, there really is no XBox 360 shortage. Want one? Go to eBay. 1461 systems for sale today. Core system prices are steady, around $325. When and if Microsoft gets their production problems straightened out, will anybody care? Probably not, until a nice big price cut. Now, at $199...

    Third, the attempt by the consumer electronics industry to put a premium price tag on HDTV players and drives may be a major flop. DVD players are going for $29 and up. Blu-Ray players at $500 to $1000 are overpriced. Lots of people can't tell the difference, anyway. It's amusing to visit the display of large-screen TVs at Fry's. Most of them are displaying the same signal, which is from an HDTV source, but about half of the "HDTV" units are actually getting their video from an NTSC signal. Most customers don't notice the difference. Sometimes the NTSC pictures look better, because the blurring masks the motion compression artifacts.

    What this all looks like is a desperate attempt by the consumer electronics industry to push prices up. Way up. Probably won't work.

    • First, there's the price point problem. Rumors of the PS3 launching at $800-$900 are distressing.

      There's no rumor that it'll launch at that price. There are rumors that it's costing Sony that much to make, which is a completely different thing. And anyway, those reports are complete bullshit, considering that they don't take into account the fact that Sony is designing and manufacturing all of the highest-price components themselves. There's no way, for example, that it's costing Sony twice as much to ma
      • Sony can't afford to lose too much per unit. The PS2 became profitable quite early. I agree, though, that those $800-$900 component costs per unit sound high.

        Why do Blu-Ray drives cost so much more than DVD drives, anyway? They're not that different.

        • Probably because they're making them backwards-compatible with DVD/CD drives, which means that each drive has to have two independent assemblies-- the blue laser, and the normal laser used with today's DVD. (Whatever color it is.) That's just a guess.

          If the PS3 wasn't backwards compatible, and it was *only* a blue laser drive, I bet it'd be quite a bit cheaper.
  • The worst thing about the 360 release was the piece-of-garbage headset they gave us with the 360, instead of the far superior headset from the original XBox Live kit.

    Microsoft doesn't even SELL a good replacement for this, and old headsets don't work unless you buy a new one, cut off the wedge piece, and solder connections to the mute and volume controls.

    Other than that, and not having any for people to buy, it's a great platform. It won't even be a topic for discussion when Halo3 comes out, it will be a r

  • The Optical Mouse...? (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheoB ( 859132 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:36PM (#14804994)
    FTA:

    It's a big, bold plan, but Microsoft tends to excel at the biggest, boldest plans--see Windows, Internet Explorer, and the optical mouse.

    Early 2000, deep inside Bill Gates' Secret Lab under Lake Washington.

    Bill Gates: Steve, what I'm about to show you may shock you to your very core. It's going to change the face of computing, nay, technology, as we know it. You may want to sit down.

    Steve Ballmer: I would, but you've removed all the chairs from the room.

    Bill Gates: ...yes. Well, just stand then. Stand, and behold, for like Prometheus giving fire to mankind, we are about to unleash upon the world... The Optical Mouse!!!

    Steve Ballmer: Like those old Apple II mice, with the little camera inside?

    Bill Gates: (Rolls eyes) Mice have two buttons Steve.

    Steve Ballmer: Right, sure. Look, Bill. I'm just not sure the world is ready for-

    Bill Gates: I SAY WHEN THE WORLD IS READY!

    etc.

  • FPS'ers and the Xbox? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dougmc ( 70836 ) <dougmc+slashdot@frenzied.us> on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:38PM (#14804999) Homepage
    Comment on the first article --
    It's a well-known fact that the Xbox and Xbox 360 excel at first-person shooters. This is no surprise, given the FPS-friendly controller design.
    Eh?

    I've been playing FPS games on PCs since The Catacomb Abyss [dosgamesarchive.com] came out. And I recently got an Xbox (the original) and have tried it for a while. And let me say that the Xbox does NOT excel at FPS games. It does OK, but it does NOT excel. Having two analog joysticks does work nicely in that it lets you run and shoot in different directions, which worked very nicely in MechAssault (which is a 3rd person shooter, but it's close), but it wasn't perfect.

    Basically, the ideal contoller for a FPS is a mouse and keyboard. I'm aware of nothing better at this time, though the keyboard could be replaced with a better keypad of some sort. The mouse lets you zoom right in on a guy's face quickly and fill it full of lead (or plasma, rockets, etc.) To make controllers like the Xbox's work well with a FPS, generally they either add auto-aiming (you get close to a guy, and the target jumps right to him, like in MechAssault) or they slow the game down so quick aiming isn't so important. And head shots? Auto-aiming kind of defeats the purpose ...

    I haven't played the Xbox 360 so I can't really comment on it, but considering how similar the controller is, I doubt it's much better. On the plus side, the controllers are straight USB (the Xbox 1 also used USB, but with a custom connector) so maybe some games will actually support using a mouse and keyboard. I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast had some games that would support that ...

    Of course, on the other hand it's hard to play a mouse/keyboard game while siting on your couch. ...

    • PC Gamer ran an article about playing with mice and keyboard vs controllers.

      Long story short?
      The one of the editors of PC Gamer took on the two staff members of a Halo website, in Halo, and stomped them mercilessly. The second autoaim was turned off the X-box controller didn't have a chance against mouse and keyboard even given the experience discrepency between the two parties.

      It's far from scientific, but most people who have used both can tell you right off hand that it's not even a competition.
      • It's so much of a difference that it's depressing to play FPS games on a console when you've done it on PC for so long. it takes seconds to turn your character around. On pc that could be done almost instantly. And on PC, circle strafing felt very natural, On consoles I find it impossible. I've switched to console gaming due to the high costs of PC gaming, but until my console gets a mouse/trackball, then the PC will beat the console at least in this one genre. I imagine RTS games are the same, althou
        • it takes seconds to turn your character around. On pc that could be done almost instantly

          Just like in real life? That's my big beef with the mouse/keyboard. Sure it gives you super human turning and aiming capability, but while that could be believable for the super human warriors of Doom/Quake/UT, it really isn't when you are a Private Eye in Call of Cthulhu, or a WWII soldier in one of the many, many WWII fps games. Yes we humans can change direction and line of sight extremely quickly, but not over and o
      • No one has ever (seriously) argued that two thumbsticks is able to compete with keyboard + mouse as far as raw accuracy.

        The point is that games have progressed since quake2, and it's not about pixel accurate railing. If you want that, go play quake2, or the original UT in instalkill mode on your PC. Or better yet, write yourself a flash game that blinks a white dot on the screen and you score points based on how quickly you click it.

        Pixel click accuracy has been taken as far as it can be taken, and it doe
    • I've always wondered why, instead of a thumbstick controller on a gamepad, they don't include a thumb-sized trackball. Aside from the hazard of getting Cheetos grit gumming up the trackball, it'd be a boon for fans of pin-point accuracy.

      • instead of a thumbstick controller on a gamepad, they don't include a thumb-sized trackball

        I never found a trackball to be anywhere near as precise as a mouse. But that could just be due to a lack of practice with it. Certainly, trackballs are usually marketed as a replacement for a mouse, and while they're not very popular, some people seem to have good results with them.

        Back to mice as a control device ... I think back to Freelancer [microsoft.com]. Now, most space combat games have been best played with a joys

    • I think the comment was referring to the 360 excelling at FPS games as opposed to the Gamecube and the PS2, which it does. (The Gamecube controller is not built for FPSs, the PS2 analog sticks don't "feel right" to a lot of people). Control-wise, of course it can't match the PC, but many people prefer to play FPSs while sitting on their couch, not a desk. So beyond that it's personal preference.

  • $600 is reasonable?! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by despisethesun ( 880261 ) on Sunday February 26, 2006 @04:39PM (#14805001)
    From TFA:
    Microsoft shouldn't be shy about boosting the price for the Xbox 360 NEO, either: $450-600 is a reasonable introductory price for a streamlined, enhanced Xbox 360

    I don't fucking think so. If Microsoft wants to charge $600 for their console, Sony and Nintendo are going to knock them right out of the market. And don't buy the hype that the PS3 is going to cost in that range, either. Sony will bring it in for a price more in line with gamers' expectations to keep their stranglehold on the console market. A $600 price tag won't save the 360, it'll kill it.

  • I think the biggest problem is that Microsoft really jumped the gun. When every other generation starter was released, the previous systems were already starting to seem quite dated to gamers, and needed an overhaul. The Genesis, the PS1, and Dreamcast: all systems that, when released, had gamers saying not only "wow, that's really cool", but "it's about time!" I just remember the first time someone brought in a new Dreamcast, there was little hype for it's release, but all of us looked stunned when we saw

    • I figure anyone who makes a post that long and makes some decent points deserves a reply, so I'll bite ...

      The 5th gen was a little more illusive, as the PS2/Gamecube/XBox era doesn't exactly add anything completely new that wasn't in the previous generation. But in this case, the pitfalls of the previous gen systems were becoming painfully obvious, and I think the general gaming community agreed that it was time to fix these things. This was the generation of attempting to achieve "realism", something the p
    • The only one who totally avoids these pitfalls is Nintendo, because the Revolution is not designed to be a replacement for the GameCube in the traditional sense.

      IMO, Sony also avoids the issue because they will keep selling the PS2 for many more years (similar to what they did with the PS1 after the PS2 launch).

  • Who really cares how big their console and power supply are and how much they weigh? As long as it's not 250lbs and the size of a 7U Compaq server, what's the incentive to redesign it? Redesign it and all you'll do it piss off the early adopters that need th elatest and greatest.

    I've had mine in my entertainment system since I got it in November, and have never thought about how big it is, nor the brick power adapter that's nicely hidden behind it. It fits in nicely next to my cable box, Tivo, and receiv
    • I care about size/weight of stuff. I move house semi-frequently (suffice to say the housing market near where I work is a nightmare), so having small, light items to move is a bonus.

      And you know what? The Xbox 360s size is a complete non-issue; it's smaller than the XBox, to start with. It's a bit heavy, but not problematically so.
  • > ...don't these guys realize how dangerously huge and clunky the Xbox 360 already is?

    Yeah, I mean, it's so much bigger than the original XBox... no, wait, what? Look, it's not a small console, but then, neither is the PS3!

    > Top priorities for a redesigned Xbox 360 (we'll call it "Xbox 360 NEO...): adding an HD-DVD drive, or at least a slot-loading DVD drive;
    So what the hell is that thing on the front of my Xbox 360, a cup holder? I will agree that releasing a new model with built in HD-DVD is probabl
    • To be honest, the removable drives confuse me (on both platforms). Unless I can connect two at once (like memory cards on the PS2) and transfer data or at least access both, I don't really want this feature.

      I want to bring my game data to my friend's house and not lose his at the same time. Sounds like I'll be using memory cards (with are memory stick for the PS3).
  • .. didn't help. There have been no updates since late Dec. A games article popped up saying the entire team were on their holidays, and that there would be no updates till March at the earliest!

    Which, Microsoft of course denied saying everything was fine. Well, unless there's a BC update in the next day, that would make them filthy liars.

  • The article claims that that MS can seriously hurt Sony if they get GTA exclusively. I don't think so.

    Sure, GTA was last generation's killer app. It basically made the PS2. However, that won't happen twice. Getting GTA exclusively is like Nintendo's buying Resident Evil 4 for the Cube. It changed absolutely nothing, because Resident Evil was the previous generation's killer app, just like GTA is now. And that was despite Resident Evil 4 being an utterly awesome and fresh game, while Rockstar has done nothi

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