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Television Media Entertainment Games Technology

What Gamers Need To Know About Buying an HD TV 138

Posted by Zonk from the they're-expensive dept.
The excellent games coverage at the San Jose Mercury News site offers up a gamers buying guide for HD TVs. Dean Takahashi discusses the basics every HD purchaser should know, some technical issues with recent plasma and LCD advances in mind, and addresses the specific problems that gamers will face with their new purchases. From the article: "If you accidentally set your PS 3 for 1080p resolution, when the TV can only support 720p, you get a black screen. The Westinghouse TV I used displayed a message that said 'invalid format.' To reset the PS3 to the standard AV format, you shut the PS3 off. Then you hold the PS3's power button down for about 10 seconds. It will reset to standard video. If you have the Nintendo Wii, you won't have to upgrade your standard/enhanced definition TV as the Wii's best resolution is 480p. It's thankfully simple, but you get a sixth of the pixels on screen as you do with a full HDTV with a PS3."
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A Gamer's Guide to Buying an HDTV More

A Gamer's Guide to Buying an HDTV

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  • No mention of HDTV lag (Score:5, Informative)

    by Galaga88 ( 148206 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:01PM (#17114838)
    This article totally neglects to mention any of the issues with HDTV lag. From my understanding, it occurs when the TV has to convert a signal to its native resolution, resulting in a several millisecond delay.

    This can be frustrating in action or rhythm games (Which is why Guitar Hero 2 has an option to compensate for it). I don't have an HDTV, so I'm not sure how bad it is but some google-fu should find plenty more on the subject.

    • Re:No mention of HDTV lag (Score:5, Funny)

      by theskipper ( 461997 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:18PM (#17115078)
      On the plus side though, it gives those of us who are sub-par CS players an alternate excuse to blaming ping.

      "lucky shot n00b cuz if my tv wasnt lagging..."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jpardey ( 569633 )
        Yeah, if someone said that, I'd have to admit it to be a bit more creative than OMG LAG. I must suck at CS, all I ever say is "Nice Shot!"

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ColaMan ( 37550 )
      My advice is to watch a wall full of different brands of TV's with content that rapidly changes scenes.
      You'll soon be able to pick the ones with the slow image processors - they're the ones that are perceptibly behind the rest.

      Of course, this doesn't show the fact that they're *all* behind a little bit, but it does help weed out the crap ones.

      • Stores don't help. (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Kadin2048 ( 468275 ) <slashdot.kadin@xox y . net> on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @02:01PM (#17115708) Homepage Journal
        Except that shopping for HDTVs is difficult, because most stores I've been to this season have them set up displaying non-HD content. At one Best Buy I visited, the guy admitted that their antenna didn't pick up any HD channels very well, so the only thing he could show us was 480p.

        At another one, everyone was crowded around the one "good looking" TV, because it was the only one displaying an HD image. All the other TVs had been tuned to an analog channel, and looked like crap by comparison.

        Until the major-market stores get their act together, it's going to be very difficult to shop for or compare HDTVs in any meaningful way. I went out to look at them in person because I thought it was ridiculous to shop for a TV without going and judging the PQ of various models in person, but I left feeling that it would just be better to shop from specs -- any subjective evaluation would have been rendered meaningless by the poor setup and conditions in stores. (The solution would have been to go to a "real" home theater store, but since I'm probably not going to pay their prices (as much as I'd like to support an independent/local, and feel guilty about it) I've hesitated to visit any.)

        Everything about HD is screwy right now. Manufacturers don't know what people want, so there are products out there that are either flat-out crappy or just mis-designed; stores aren't bothering to train their employees about how to explain or sell the new technology, making the job of a potential buyer even harder; not to mention that average people range seem to be ambivalent about the whole upgrade business. HDTV isn't like color, where once you saw it, you understood the change and could go out and buy one; it's an obvious upgrade when it's done right, but it can be a morass if it's not.

        • Re:Stores don't help. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by bigpat ( 158134 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @03:05PM (#17116600)
          I had a similar disappointing experience both at Circuit City and Best Buy. One problem that the Circuit City sales person explained was that they didn't have a 1080p source for putting on all the 1080p HDTVs, because of the stupid copy restrictions which downgrade a signal to 720p when it is not hooked up through a unsplittable HDMI connection. So, they would have had to have each tv hooked up to a seperate 1080p video source and couldn't just split the signal from one player. He also said that some manufacturers provided individual 1080p capable DVRs with preloaded content, which looked pretty nice, but that the contract for the demo equipment stipulated that it would not be used on any other manufacturers TVs. So, for example they couldn't show me what a 1080p picture would look like on any of the Sharp 1080p HDTVs because they contractually couldn't just switch over a demo device from another manufacturer and the biggest problem was that the store was too cheap and the sales people too lazy to make one demo 1080p player available that could have been moved to each TV that you wanted to see in 1080p. Seemed pretty stupid to me, if you are going to sell these tvs for a lot of money, then you should at least be able to demo them. Ideally, there would be a box connected to each one that allowed you to see how each different input 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p all looked on the TV.

          It does suck that they couldn't just run a 1080p signal to all of the 1080p TVs from one source. Really makes me worried that the new 1080p TVs are just too wrapped up in HDCP to be worth the extra expense. I'd rather have analog back if it means that we will actually be allowed to see a better picture, instead of being stuck with some unrealized capability of doing so.

          • One problem that the Circuit City sales person explained was that they didn't have a 1080p source for putting on all the 1080p HDTVs, because of the stupid copy restrictions which downgrade a signal to 720p when it is not hooked up through a unsplittable HDMI connection. So, they would have had to have each tv hooked up to a seperate 1080p video source and couldn't just split the signal from one player.

            Either that or negotiate a license with the work's copyright owner to press splittable copies to be rented to each Circuit City store. The work displayed on the huge wall of TVs is being performed publicly anyway.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Mr2001 ( 90979 )
            Really makes me worried that the new 1080p TVs are just too wrapped up in HDCP to be worth the extra expense.

            It's not 1080p, it's HDTV in general. That's why I'm planning to hold off for another three years - if they aren't affordable by then, or if HDCP still isn't cracked, then they never will be.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Builder ( 103701 )
            I was watching a stunning Samsung HD demo the other day. It was only after about 30 seconds that I realised that I was watching it on an LG TV.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 )

          At another one, everyone was crowded around the one "good looking" TV, because it was the only one displaying an HD image. All the other TVs had been tuned to an analog channel, and looked like crap by comparison.

          I ran into this very same dilemma (Future Shop in Canada, akin to Best Buy - and I believe owned by them). Here' s what I did - I took a Powerbook to the store with a DVD in it, along with the various video cables.

          I knew that any HDTV I bought would have to hook up thru at least VGA and prefera

          • 1080p is nice but hardly necessary; that rez is basically science fiction (content wise) for the next 4 years

            One might think that you don't know what you're talking about from that statement. Let me debunk this a bit:

            1. 1080i even at 60 fields/30 frames per second, IS a higher resolution than 720p at 60 frames per second. One can make arguments about the visual quality depending on content (e.g., the "sports is better in 720p" contention), but the data transferred via 1080i is still greater than that t

            • Considering all of the above, how is 1080p "science fiction?" The answer, of course, is that it's not.

              *blinks*

              Classic kneejerk reaction. You completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. I know what 1080p is (but gosh, thanks for the lesson.)

              I didn't say it didn't exist. What I meant was, there is practically no content for that signal, and probably won't be very much for some time. Thats it. And your 2-year estimate is pretty funny. Its taken a decade just to get the paltry HD adoption that is

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by apoc06 ( 853263 )
                youre right in that HDTV adoption has taken years to reach this point. however, since the release of this new generation of video games, HDTV sales have skyrocketed. now is the first time crappy HDTVs have been available below the magical $500US mark. the magical line that heralds widespread consumer adoption. the future is now.

                within the next year or two, game consoles alone are going to drive HDTV sales more. there will be [guesstimating here] probably 40 million next generation consoles sold in the next

                • youre right in that HDTV adoption has taken years to reach this point. however, since the release of this new generation of video games, HDTV sales have skyrocketed. now is the first time crappy HDTVs have been available below the magical $500US mark. the magical line that heralds widespread consumer adoption. the future is now.

                  This is a good point and I am optimistic as well - the only thing I might add is that the most popular new console is 480p only (the Wii), but who knows how that horse race will en

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by smchris ( 464899 )
          At another one, everyone was crowded around the one "good looking" TV, because it was the only one displaying an HD image. All the other TVs had been tuned to an analog channel, and looked like crap by comparison.

          It can lead to unfortunate misunderstandings when two linked technologies are rolled out simultaneously (and badly). Over thanksgiving I was trying to describe our broadcast HD MythTV setup with an LCD to a country uncle and part of it was explaining why LCDs don't _have_ to suck. Because all he'

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nxtw ( 866177 )
      my 1080p HDTV LCD has no problem with lag on Guitar Hero (either that, or I've played Guitar Hero so much on that TV that I anticipate the lag...)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 )
        A 1080p TV doesn't have to do any conversion though. A 1080p TV displays 1080i/60 transmitted content at it's native 1080p/30 resolution with 0 loss.

        You need to remember that video games only use 1080i as a transmission mechanism. It's not encoded at 1080i (it's not encoded at anything - it's generated progressive content).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by nxtw ( 866177 )
          Guitar Hero II is 480i.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Beefysworld ( 1005767 )
        I recently picked up an LG 60" Plasma HDTV. Hooked up my PS2 via component and everything seemed to be fine. However, when I did start playing Guitar Hero II (including setting it to widescreen and enabling progressive scan), on hard / expert I was really out of time. Kept missing a lot of the notes, even they should have registered.

        After running through the lag calibration thing, my screen was apparently about 30ms out of whack. In normal games, this wouldn't really make that much of a difference, but

  • Resolution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:03PM (#17114866)

    From the article:

    I'd agree with the hype that says once you have played games in HD, it's painful to go back to standard TV.

    Wow, this guy finally figured out what us PC gamers have known for about a decade now! Who'da thunk it?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by HappySqurriel ( 1010623 )
      Personally, as a long time PC gamer I can honestly say that "resolution" has never been that much of a consern for me; the thing that bothers me is the artifacts that typically come from low-resolution images. As a result of this I tend to play most of my games at a resolution between 800x600 and 1280x1024 with 8xAA and 8xAF ...

      I know this goes against what some people will say but I would rather run a game at 800x600 with 8xAA and 8xAF then have the same game at 1280x1024 with no AA and AF.

      • Re:Resolution (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:16PM (#17115042)

        See, you've just proven my point: you consider 800x600 to be low resolution! For console gamers, this would be high resolution -- standard for them is 484 interlaced lines. When you start getting that low, it becomes really bad no matter how much anti-aliasing you use. For example, try playing Half-Life on the PS2 sometime. It sucks horribly, mostly due to the low resolution (the remainder of the sucking is due to the horrible controls).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Sancho ( 17056 )
          But he was talking about artifacts in low resolution PC games, not complaining about the resolution in general.

          Until now, console games were designed for SD, so textures and images wouldn't have those artifacts unless you had a bad artist.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
          "For example, try playing Half-Life on the PS2 sometime. It sucks horribly, mostly due to the low resolution"

          The problem isn't the raw resolution per se but rather the resolution the game was designed to play at. I find it telling that you point to a port of a PC game as an example of poor quality of gaming on a television.

          However, if it were all about nothing but raw resolution power, then there would be no discernable difference between playing the PS2 version of Half-Life on a television and playing the

    • Wow, this guy finally figured out what us PC gamers have known for about a decade now! Who'da thunk it?

      Still, there's a lot more PC gamers could learn about HDTV, including proper cables for converting DVI to HDMI, which brands support DVI standard and what resolutions just wont look good on HDTV. Heck, even some info on setting it to native res, much like standard LCD monitors, would have been handy.

      All in all, I'd prefer an article like this be called "A Console Gamer's Guide to Buying an HDTV" since it

      • All in all, I'd prefer an article like this be called "A Console Gamer's Guide to Buying an HDTV" since it clearly covers only that material.

        True, but in practice, it appears that the vast majority of HDTV gaming is done on a closed console. The three notable HDTV gaming platforms are PLAYSTATION 3, Xbox 360, and Home Theater PC. PS3 is still in public beta, so are there more Xbox 360 systems or HTPC systems in use?

        • That's a good question. I wonder if anyone has decent numbers on HTPC usage. I'm betting both Microsoft and Apple have at least tried to figure it out, seeing as they're selling into the market, but I've never seen the numbers publicised.

          Even if there are good numbers on HTPCs, I wonder how many of them are used for gaming. Personally, I've enjoyed gaming on my 36" non-HDTV Mitsubishi for several years now, but I know a lot of other people just use their PCs to record TV, play DVDs or run movies off thei

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by tepples ( 727027 )

            I've always believed the number of PC gamers using large-screen TVs would increase with HDTV penetration (easier to use and higher quality/resolution)

            The problem is that publishers of A-list PC games still seem to be stuck in the mindset of first person shooters, real-time war sims, and online role playing games. All these genres seem to work better with a keyboard and mouse, which become awkward in a living room and are limited to one player per machine. There aren't too many HTPC games that can use multiple USB gamepads plugged into the front hub.

            • Notably, the Serious Sam games support splitscreen play for up to (IIRC) 4 players.

              Those are the only PC shooters that I know of that do.

              "Hunter, Hunted" is a great older game for two-player versus or coop platform action, on one machine.
            • A TV tray with a shorty keyboard actually works pretty well. I just grab a chair from the dining room or the home office. It's not ideal, but neither is doing these kinds of games with a gamepad. I have high hopes for the Phantom Lapboard [phantom.net].

              The lack of split screen mutiplayer games is a bigger problem, but, hey, I never said the PC should replace consoles. It's just a heck of a lot of fun playing Doom3 on a big screen with 5.1 and no lights :-) I was kind of hoping more people would catch on so we could

              • but, hey, I never said the PC should replace consoles

                Then which open platform, available to amateur developers looking to get hired and new studios looking to publish a first title, should replace consoles?

                • Consoles shouldn't replace PCs either. If I had to make a choice between removing all games forever from my PCs or through all my consoles out the window, it would be a fairly straight forward goodbye to the ol' PS2. There is a reason why I wanted the PC to be included in this article after all.

                  BTW, check out Treadmarks at LDAgames.com. It's a great small-publisher game, though a little dated by this point. It's been one of my favorite for years.

                  TW

  • Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great (Score:5, Informative)

    by Johnso ( 520335 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:07PM (#17114926)
    After researching dozens of websites, a dozen stores, and going back and forth between different models, I finally bought an LCD HDTV last month. I decided on the LVM-42W2 [amazon.com] from Westinghouse. It has 1080p resolution, tons of inputs (including two DVIs and HDMI for hooking up your laptop) and works flawlessly. I couldn't be happier with the picture and it's by far the best price for a 40"+ 1080p screen.

    • Re:Westinghouse LVM-42W2 is great (Score:4, Informative)

      by bockelboy ( 824282 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @02:06PM (#17115762)
      Can I hear an "Amen" to that.

      Our office bought the LVM-42W2 for video conferencing over the summer. Since then, 4 of us have bought the exact same model. It's got tons of inputs (all the various analog ones, 1 VGA, 2 DVI, 1 HDMI). It can do 1080p. It is cheap - finding it for $1500 is not hard, I think. I haven't run into any quirks.

      The difference between the Westinghouse and the $3000 Samsung is that the Samsung has lots of nice filters on it, whereas the Westinghouse only has the standard brightness/contrast/etc. Three points:
      1) Your 1080p/1080i source doesn't need any expensive upconverting filter technologies.
      2) You'll want a nicer up-converting image for DVD sources. This can be remedied by buying a nice $100 DVD player which does the up-conversion, instead of having the TV do it.
      3) Unless you have lots of nice TVs at home already, you won't be able to tell the difference between the Westinghouse and a $3000 set once you get it in your living room. The only way to see that the $3000 set has a marginally better picture is to put them next to each other.
      So, the extra $1500 in cost goes away once you take the set home, and in the worst case can be remedied by buying a nice DVD player (cost: $100).

      I friggin' love my TV and, at $1500, my wife even let my buy it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Sporkinum ( 655143 )
        It is cheap - finding it for $1500 is not hard, I think.

        What frame of existence do you live in that says $1500 for a TV is cheap?
        When my current TV (27") dies and I can replace it for $300 I'll do it.
        • Some people say "cheap" when they mean "bargain" or "value". $1500 is not necessarily cheap in absolute terms, but $1500 for a 42" LCD HDTV is a bargain compared to what other 42" LCD HDTVs cost.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Jack9 ( 11421 )
          Well said. 1500 is cheap for a car, not an idiotbox. What on earth do you need an HDTV for, really? Years ago I'd occasionally endure a seies of bad jokes about laymen buying hyper-expensive TVs that didn't provide any value (HDTV). Now we have a /. article endorsing it. Ugh.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by kalirion ( 728907 )
            It's all about the graphics. Why do people spend $1500+ on gaming PCs when a $500 PC will play virtually all of the newest games at playable speeds (>15fps) once you turn the graphics down to bare minimum?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Jack9 ( 11421 )

              It's all about the graphics.

              That's just plain false. There's a human-noticeable loss of fidelity when you're at 15fps or when there's missing textures (blood spattering, etc). There's a signifigant amount of information loss that's pertinent to the game (FPS, RTS, not so much RPG). HDTV doesn't address anything remotely practical. I cannot ignore the fact that there's an improvement visually, but not an improvement that serves any specific need or gap. The difference in fidelity is not even noticeable to me

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by mgblst ( 80109 )
              The thing about HD tv that always get me is, sure you notice the graphics quality, when you are looking for it. About 30 seconds after that, when you are actually watching a movie or playing a game, you completely forget about it. So what is the point, for 30 seconds - this is why I hate HD tv. Do you really sit there, through a 2 hour movie, thinking all the time how good it looks? No way.
          • $1,500 for a 42 inch computer monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1080 is an outstanding bargain. Who cares about the TV aspects to it?

            strike

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Jack9 ( 11421 )
              I can get a 25 inch viewable CRT for $70. I still dont see the point of paying 1500 for 42.
      • What do you make of the contrast ratio, particularly in regards to games? Sony has a 7000:1 contrast ratio for a similar model.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by rapett0 ( 92674 )
      Not that I can add too much to what the parent said, but I agree. I have had mine now I am guessing 4-6 months and I love it. I have seen it around for even cheaper then what I gave (which was 1700), like around 1500 (US). To be honest, I can not think of any thing bad about this TV so far. Great picture, and um, great picture. I guess I should make a note that it is a monitor, so no built in tuner for HDTV (not that really bothers me), and the remote is *weak*. But otherwise, I love it actually have
      • I never even watch TV on it as I am too busy with XBOX 360 in 1080 *p*. (Thought to be honest, I did not really notice any difference in 1080i vs p).

        The article mentions that there are no 1080p games for xbox 360 at all, currently. That's probably why you don't notice any difference. :)

        Almost all programming is in 720p, and some experts say that when you're watching video, your (or maybe just my) eyes can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p, especially on smaller screens. In fact, games may b

      • The reason you don't notice a difference between 1080i and 1080p in an Xbox 360 game is because all you're changing isthe point in the signal path where the conversion is taking place from 1080i to 1080p. Your 1080p display takes every 1080i source and converts it to 1080p, so if you set your Xbox to output 1080i you're still seeing 1080p. Frankly, the difference will end up being marginal at best even with "native" 1080p games on both the 360 and the PS3 because the likelihood is that 1080p games will be
    • I just bought one of these too, and I'm totally loving it. I've got MythTV piping directly to it over DVI, my Mac Mini in over DVI, and everything else piped in through my video switching receiver via component.

      My subject is meant to inform folks that this is a monitor, not a TV, becuase it lacks tuners. Makes for a great price (I got mine on sale at Best Buy for $1500) if you don't need em, and I don't.

      • What are the various options for external tuners, by the way? My parents are looking to replace their bedroom TV with an LCD panel, and it's ridiculous to pay either $270 for a crappy standard-def 20" panel or $800 for an HD one, when I could get an HD-resolution 20" computer monitor (with no tuner) for $300.

  • One silver lining for PC people (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Wilson_6500 ( 896824 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:09PM (#17114946)
    Skipping commentary on the Death Of PC Gaming etc., it's interesting to watch as consoles become more like computers as far as the gaming experience goes: compatability problems (never really had those with the NES), online content, weird crashes and errors. The bright side of all this for PC gamers is that we should start seeing fewer games being hobbled because people try to design them for PCs and consoles simultaneously (Deus Ex 2 for the canonical example).

    • compatability problems (never really had those with the NES)

      You must not have tried to play a game published by Color Dreams, Wisdom Tree, or Camerica on a late-model NES. You must also not have tried to play a game published in one part of Europe on a console sold in another part of Europe.

      The bright side of all this for PC gamers is that we should start seeing fewer games being hobbled because people try to design them for PCs and consoles simultaneously

      Isn't the home theater PC gaming environment similar to that of a game console, minus the lockout?

  • He left out something important (Score:5, Interesting)

    by J. T. MacLeod ( 111094 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:14PM (#17115020)
    Many panels these days used non-HD resolutions (stretched 1024x768 for plasma displays, for instance) or, almost as bad, an "in between" resolution. That's commonly 1366x768.

    That ensures that EVERYTHING you watch will be scaled, so you couldn't even have the clarity of watching 720p on a 1280x720 set.

    Yet the 1280x720 sets, with lower resolutions, cost more.

    Welcome to The Market.
    • I have had varying results with 1366x768 machines...720p on my Xbox connected via component seems to run in the correct native resolution.

      But 720p with my Mac Mini looks horrible, and is clearly NOT running in native resolution. This is a very important issue with any fixed-pixel display, and the writer of this article should be ashamed for not mentioning it.

      • That's odd, I have a 1366x768 LCD Flat Panel and the Mac Mini Looks great on it. When I turn off the the overscan, I get a small black border around the edge of the screen so that the signal coming from the Mac Mini actually uses 1280x720 of the pixels on the monitor. Granted, I'm not using all the pixels on the TV, but it's a 1:1 mapping so it's as clear as can be. Are you going DVI from the Mac Mini to HDMI on the TV or are you going from VGA on the Mac Mini to Component on the TV?

    • HDTV is a clusterfuck. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Kadin2048 ( 468275 ) <slashdot.kadin@xox y . net> on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @01:40PM (#17115402) Homepage Journal
      And what's more, given the borderline advertising practices of many companies, a 1024x768 display will probably be advertised as "720p!" too, even though it's really not. But because most people don't know the corresponding horizontal resolution that's supposed to go with 720p, they'll never notice.

      I wonder if you have a 1366x768 display, if you could bypass the internal scaler by feeding it a DVI signal from an HTPC, and then use the HTPC to position the 1280x720p frame in the center of the 1366x768 one, thus giving you an unscaled image?

      Any TV designer who automatically scales 1280x768 up to 1366x768 without an option to turn it off and just display it with black bars ought to be shot.

    • That ensures that EVERYTHING you watch will be scaled, so you couldn't even have the clarity of watching 720p on a 1280x720 set.

      It makes absolutely no difference either way to picture quality.

      Really. I looked into this and its a nonstarter. Go look at a 720p panel next to a '768p' panel (like the Samsung, there are a few out there) with same source. They look pretty much identical.

      Almost everything you watch for the next while will be upconverted in some manner. All DVDs, for example.

  • Anything but plasma (Score:2, Informative)

    by The-Bus ( 138060 )
    As the article off-handedly suggests, plasma still has some burn-in issues. If you play a lot of FPS games, you suddenly might see a movie one day and notice items from your HUD as ghostly images still appearing on the screen. Some newer plasma TVs have "burn-in reduction" or "protection" but it's not very good. Basically, what the TV does is burn every single element/pixel on the screen. Now the entire image is less bright. You won't see a difference but if you ever plug in another TV next to yours, you mi
    • I have a CRT HDTV that is about 32. I somewhat regret not getting the 36. Got it a few years ago - nice TOshiba though it's not a widescreen. But it is HELL to move.

      I also suspect that is can only display 480p, and nothing higher. When I try to play to it from my Xbox in 720p, it doesn't work -though my comcast HD box says that it is sending the signal in 1080i and it seems to be able to display that.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 0rbit4l ( 669001 )
        Several early CRT HDTVs cannot display 720p at all, but *can* display 1080i just fine... I recall seeing several Philips CRT owners complaining about this during the early adoption of the 360. Can you set the 360 to output 1080i? (I have no idea, I've never used a 360...). Is there some firmware update to the 360 that will permit 1080i output now?
        • In TFA, it says there was an Xbox upgrade that allows it to send 1080p signals. I _think_ the original Xbox could do this too, but there was maybe just one game that did this (Jet Set Radio Future)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by The-Bus ( 138060 )
          The 360 outputs 720p and 1080i, and now with the recent patch, 1080P. The 1080P depends on the game and as far as I know, no game supports 1080P yet.

          I think the original Xbox may have been able to output 1080i with some games, but I am not sure.
          • Jet Set Radio Future was one original Xbox game that could output to that.

            Too bad I didn't realize I could turn on 1080i until now - the only game I think that supports it is Arcade Poker! which will look so much better now!

  • Step One: Get a 5.1 system and an LCD TV that is NATIVE 1080p. If you can't afford that, save up and deal with your crappy 20" for now.

    There is no Step Two.
  • The sweet spot on pricing right now is DLP. The latest sets (7th Generation?) are really mature. Very few people see the rainbow effect on these. They take 1080p signals and have good doublers and scalers for other content. They give you true blacks and great color reproduction.

    The only downside is you can't hang them on a wall. To me that isn't a problem. I still have a component rack with my receiver, DVD player, etc in it and my front floor standing speakers. A TV on the wall would be out of place
    • DLP sets are prety nifty, but they're not that great for gaming. There's up to a half second lag on DLP sets that you won't have on LCD or CRT TVs. I've heard some of the newer Samsungs have a decent game mode that helps compensate for this, but if you're playing games that have fast, intensive action, you're going to better off staying away from DLP.
      • I don't know of any modern DLP with close to half a second lag. That would show up immediately with a de-sync'd audio/video. Now, if you do a lot of scaling or other conversion then yes, it could show up but so far I'm not seeing that on anything. My Mitsu scales everything to 1080p and I see no lag at all on the video. Audio coming out of my receiver is perfectly in sync.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Darkfred ( 245270 )
        I use a mitsubishi 54" DLP for gaming and there is absolutely no lag. This is true for every input, device, and game system I have tried with it. In some of the first generation TVs you had change the settings for the inputs that required lagless operation, but this hasn't been a problem in any modern HDTV that I have seen. And by modern I mean the last 3 years.
        Don't let fud like this scare you out of getting a great looking and much cheaper DLP screen. If it has lag, which is very unlikely then take it bac
  • I bought an HDTV a few years ago. RCA 32" CRT, 4:3 aspect, component and VGA inputs for HD. (Apparently the XBOX 360 supports HD VGA output; they sell the cables at least.) $1300 plus a free progressive DVD player by rebate.

    Apparently this set is a rarity in features found today: it can do 1080i but can't do 720p. However, it does not letterbox 1080i content to preserve the HD aspect ratio. Only recently have I been able to instruct my cable box to correct for this (except that it overcorrects).

    If the
    • I have a 34" 1080i/480p/480i CRT, and I really love it. The thing you really appreciate with this kind of monitor is the total lack of scaling artifacts. There are a lot of panels out there with nice displays and terrible scalers, and they look bad with any input other than their exact native format. Sony is particularly guilty of this: every LCD panel they sell -- from $1000 to $15,000 -- looks terrible. But a CRT lacks a "native" format and can look good with any kind of input. Also, a CRT need not d
      • The downside is that CRTs are hard to find these days, and there will probably never be one that handles 720p or 1080p. Alas! But if you snag one today, you can ride out the early panel wars and buy a really nice panel in 5-10 years.

        Yeah I'm a little confused about that since I'm typing this message using a 19" CRT which matches 1080p (and has a much greater framerate...)* which I purchased over five years ago for less than $250 at Best Buy.

        *I never put it up that high though because for some reason UI and
        • Why does "but it's for TV" suddenly make everything five times more expensive?

          I don't know, but I agree it's ridiculous. I'm looking into getting a small (~20") LCD HDTV, and you know what? It's cheaper to buy a 20" widescreen computer monitor and add a tuner to one of my computers than it is to buy a 20" HDTV! If I want to just tune analog TV (but keep the high-res display for forward compatibility), I could build a whole MythTV box for that price, too!

        • Why does "but it's for TV" suddenly make everything five times more expensive?

          Even when it lacks internal NTSC or ATSC tuners or even CableCard slots! I can only think it's to cover the licensing costs for the mandatory DRM compatibility.

          The matching Apple 21" Studio Display (19.8" viewable) for my old Blue & White G3 does 2048x1536 @ 60Hz (with SwitchResX, would like freeware alternative) which is what I drive it at. Originally released it had a max advertised resolution of 1600x1200, but today witho
    • I, too, am perplexed by the lack of 720p. I also have a similar model by Toshiba (same dimensions and restrictions). The cablebox's 1080i works, but the Xbox 360s 720p does not.

      Any idea on how we might fix this?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HTH NE1 ( 675604 )
        I, too, am perplexed by the lack of 720p. I also have a similar model by Toshiba (same dimensions and restrictions).

        As I had heard it explained before, at 1080i the CRT's electron gun only has to light up 540 lines per pass. To do 720p it has to do, well, 720, and that was more difficult and made the sets more expensive.

        Any idea on how we might fix this?

        Maybe an upconverter that can bring video up from 720p to 1080i. I don't know if such things even exist for that resolution pair.
  • The Westinghouse LVM-37W3 is hands down the best widescreen gaming monitor [plasmabay.com] for less than $1000 [pricegrabber.com] available today. I have owned the previous model, a Westinghouse LVM-37w1, for a year now and it's fantastic for gaming. No pixel-lag or ghosting at all, vibrant colors, quick response time while playing shooters, lots and lots of screenspace for extra chat/UI windows while playing MMOGs, etc.

    I use this monitor with my PC and it's the ideal screen-size for my viewing distance of 6'. I lean back on a reclining c

  • Lone voice in the wilderness (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Guppy06 ( 410832 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2006 @05:43PM (#17119818)
    I've had enough problems with LCD displays on laptops and handheld devices that I simply will not buy an LCD television until the manufacturer's dead pixel policy is something other than "It's not a bug, it's a feature!" I'm not going to spend upwards of $1000 for the device's manual to include a note in the Troubleshooting section telling me not to worry about little dots that won't go away.

    With that said, personally, I just want an old-fashioned CRT, and I've been tempted by the likes of these [samsung.com]. No rear projects or having to rethink A/V furniture, no young technologies that have new and interesting problems that have yet to be acceptably solved (be it dead pixels or greater susceptibility to burn-in), not even a rear projection, just good old-fashioned ions-on-phosphorous, and for a reasonable price. However, I'm relutctant to purchase even these because I've yet to see a direct view CRT that supports 1080p, and I see no point in getting a television that doesn't support features that will probably be worth having in the next ten years.

    And speaking of "ten years," I want an appliance, not yet another piece of technology that gets thrown out after 3-4 years. If I cannot be reasonably assured that the television I'm considering buying will neither be obsolete in three years nor outright non-functioning, my NTSC set continues to work (from back when the most complicated question I had while shopping was "What kind of inputs does it have?")
    • CRTs can't handle progressive scan to my knowledge, don't know why, don't care. However you're buying into those idiots who tell you buy 1080p. BUY IT BUY IT!!!

      Personally I spent 500 dollars, I got a 52 inch CRT. Guess what? That's my tv for the next 5-10 years. When I buy my next tv, I'll probably have it in the same room as my 52 inch still. When I buy a third, that 52 will be my bedroom tv. I still have a 300 dollar tv that I bought almost 10 years ago that works perfectly and I still use to watch

      • CRTs can't handle progressive scan to my knowledge, don't know why, don't care.

        Uhhh, I'm working on a CRT right now that does 1600x1200 progressive. There's nothing magical about it. Had it for years.

        Now, if someone wants to buy something and they don't NEED it, why whine about someone buying something you don't value?
        I don't value sporty cars. They burn lots of gas and cost more $. That doesn't mean the people who buy them are necessarily "falling" for the marketing.

  • If you are looking at buying a HDTV then the following URL is essential first reading
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_telev ision [wikipedia.org]

    For those who don't RTFA you really need to look at screen resolution before you buy. The best resolution is 1920x1080 (1080i and/or 1080p) with 1280x720 (720i and/or 720p) at the lower end, however there are variants. For standard definition you have 768×576 or 720x540 (PAL) or 640×480 and 852×480 (NTSC) but there are variants.

    The bottom line is if you

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