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XBox (Games)

The Xbox Live Arcade - One Year Later 57

Posted by Zonk from the worth-it-for-doom-lumines-and-of-course-geometry-wars dept.
Via Joystiq, an article at GamePro asking is Live Arcade worth it? One year after its launch, the service has been transformed by lots of retro classics, some brand new games, and the addition of the (now working) movie and television download service. What parts are good, what parts are bad, and ultimately, is it worth it? From the article: "Many of XBLA's original games draw their inspirations from classic video games, and the poster child for XBLA originals is Bizarre Creations' Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved. Released with the launch of Xbox 360, Geometry Wars showed a skeptical world just how cool original yet classically styled downloadable games could be. It plays like a crazed combination of all-time classics Asteroids and Robotron: 2084, with your lone, triangular spaceship pitted against literally endless hordes of nasty geometric shapes. The level of onscreen carnage is legendary; never has a game had more spectacular or over-the-top particle effects, showing that even simple games can be flashy."
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The Xbox Live Arcade - One Year Later More

The Xbox Live Arcade - One Year Later

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  • Lots of graphical feedback elements and action..

  • Is it worth what, exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Control Group ( 105494 ) * on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @12:55PM (#17224546) Homepage
    Via Joystiq, an article at GamePro asking is Live Arcade worth it?

    Worth what? The nothing extra you have to pay if you hve a 360 and a broadband connection? Acquiring a broadband connection if you don't already have one? Acquiring a 360 if you don't already have one? (The answers are yes, maybe, and no, incidentally).

    I don't really know what question the article is trying to answer.

    • I don't really know what question the article is trying to answer.

      The question of "how much money can I make off my advertisers today" :)
    • The third one.

      All 3 systems are trying to find their niche right now. They're all marketing their strengths.

      Wii: Innovative controller.
      Xbox 360: Strongest online. Strongest library (at the moment).
      PS3: Raw power.

      For many, the Xbox 360 is a selling point. If you're not interested in online gaming (quite frankly, I feel as if most games are half-baked if they don't include some kind of online element nowadays), then you don't need an Xbox 360.

  • Geometry Wars (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Stavr0 ( 35032 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @12:57PM (#17224586) Homepage Journal
    ... is what comes out when you put Space Duel, Tempest and Robotron 2084 in a blender and press the 'Puree' button. And there's still a (discontinued,banninated) Win32 version floating out there on the InterTubes

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yes I am completely addicted to the Banninated Win32 version, Grid Wars 2. I think it is one of the best games ever made.

      • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        addicted to the Banninated Win32 version
        That's interesting... just knowing that it's banned somehow made me inherently more interested in it. If this was just some average freeware I may, or may not have looked for it. Knowing it's in some way taboo makes it all the more appealing.
    • Geometry Wars has gotten more playtime than any of my full price 360 games. And I really like those other games games too. Its just that its impossible for me to not begin and end my 360 gaming sessions with a few games of geometry wars.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by SScorpio ( 595836 )
        I didn't care for Geometry Wars, though I only played Grid Wars 2. I do wonder what would happen if Microsoft released this Japanese Guy's stuff on XLA. Parsec47 is one of my favorite shoot'em ups and you can beat the price he charges.

        http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/index_e.html [asahi-net.or.jp]

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by StillAnonymous ( 595680 )
      You talking about Grid Wars 2 [excellentcontent.com]?

  • Great Idea, Great Execution, Not enough content (Score:5, Informative)

    by Xest ( 935314 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @01:36PM (#17225120)
    I do love the Live Arcade and I love many games on it, but for my taste the release of arcade games is too slow, MS struggle to hit their target of one a week, whilst Nintendo is throwing out 5 - 10 a week. Some may argue that Nintendo has a bigger library but I don't think that's the case - MS has a massive library of PC games as has been demonstrated by the release of Doom and the upcoming release of Worms and such, there's plenty more PC classics they could throw out there, I can't beleive getting the IP holders to allow and follow through with this is the bottleneck here.

    The other issue regarding content is the fact they've tried to shove a patch for Texas hold 'em and a set of Kameo Uno card decks on us as the supposed weekly game, that really does sound like they're clutching at straws some weeks to get any content at all out (some weeks have missed any kind of release entirely). From what I've read and what I've gathered the bottleneck seems to be MS' certification process if anything, god only knows what it involves but the speed it takes almost makes me wonder if they do a full source code audit of every submission couple with rigorous beta testing - that's no bad thing if you have the resources on the task to get it done rapidly.

    I'm hoping with XNA people will start churning out stuff that MS will see and say "Hey, we need to get this onto the arcade ASAP", but even XNA is bottlenecked right now in that the only distribution method is to zip up your XNA project source and assets and e-mail them or whatever to whoever you're distributing to so that they can compile them using their copy of VC# and deploy it to their 360 themselves but if I've got a game I want to sell on the arcade, I don't want to be handing out source so I'm not entirely sure how MS expects anyone to get a game to be popular enough whilst at the same time not handing out your source when that's the only distribution method. You could use XNA and deploy a commercial version of your project for Windows but that's hardly an option if you're designing around the 360 controller, the 360 controller does work on Windows but I doubt many people would buy one to play games on their Windows machine.

    MS is getting there and they're well ahead of Sony, but only just up with Nintendo on the whole downloadable games thing - XNA has potential though so let's hope they can convince the MS execs that XNA is good so that the XNA team is given permission to make a proper process for game distribution as well as permission to add networking support to XNA - something that it sorely needs!
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Thraxen ( 455388 )
      It's not really fair to compare MS to what Nintendo are currently doing. If you have seen the selection on the Wii's virtual console (VC) then you know that the majority of the games are tiny NES, TG16, SNES, and Genesis games. The larger N64 games are still few in number. Also, Nintendo are adding NOTHING to these games yet. Right now they are exactly how they were on their original consoles. The XBLA classic titles, on the other hand, support HD, have achievements, leaderboards, online multipler, and
    • One game a week is enough- possibly more than enough.

      Part of the whole plan is to actually make XBLA developer friendly. If Microsoft pushed out loads and loads of games each week, then the resulting sales for each would be much lower.

      With even XBLA games taking 8-12 months, the developers need to get a return on their games, otherwise it just doesn't make sense as a platform. So, limit the number of games, and each will sell a little better.

      Personally, I check the system every Wednesday to see if the new

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by LKM ( 227954 )
        Part of the whole plan is to actually make XBLA developer friendly

        See, that's part of the problem. Microsoft makes a games console for developers, a music player for music labels, a video player for movie studios when in fact, it should make all of these things for its customers.

    • Re:Great Idea, Great Execution, Not enough content (Score:4, Interesting)

      by The-Bus ( 138060 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @11:23PM (#17232410)

      I do love the Live Arcade and I love many games on it, but for my taste the release of arcade games is too slow, MS struggle to hit their target of one a week, whilst Nintendo is throwing out 5 - 10 a week.
      The difference is that the MS Arcade games need to be ported. Even simple games like Pac-Man or Frogger get some kind of graphical flourish, some get online gameplay, etc. Not terribly complex stuff, but it's something.

      Nintendo, as I understand, basically has emulators in the Wii. All they need to dump is the game image, the control manual, and fix some control mapping schemes. It's not like you can use the motion sensing of the Wiimote in Ecco the Dolphin.

      Nintendo, at least from what I've heard announced, has 0 truly new games coming to the VC. Microsoft has had Geometry Wars, RoboBlitz, Small Arms, Assault Heroes, Cloning Clyde, Outpost Kaloki, and Wik: Fable of Souls (some of these are also PC games, some are purely on the Xbox 360). And there's more on the way.

      Does this mean Microsoft gets a free pass? No. At E3 there were a ton of titles that they said were going to hit XBLA before year's end. They're not here yet. And some games aren't worth even $5.00 (or "400 points").

      I'm glad XBLA exists. A lot of those games are more fun than their $50 or $60 counterparts.

  • Is it worth it? Yes. Is it being mismanaged?Yes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kinglink ( 195330 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @01:55PM (#17225412)
    First off let me start by explaining who owns the Xbox Live Marketplace. Microsoft. Period. This is like someone drawing a comic (the developer) and I own a shop. If I think you're charging too much, not giving enough, or not being nice, you're not in my shop. PERIOD. So all the fault with the problems come back to Microsoft in that Microsoft allowed them to happen.

    Now let's get into the Xbox Live Arcade. There's a large amount of good games on it. Let's start with Geometry wars, Marble blast, and Mutant storm. These are three excellent games that came out almost at launch. Each of them are great in different ways.

    But not all games were great at launch, the biggest problem child is Bankshot Billards 2, which they gave away for free with the 12 month live boxes. That's a 15 dollar value! Except it's not. Backshot billards 2 is a below average game for anyone who doesn't REALLLLY like pool. And this brings us to the big problem, the value of the games are skewed.

    Can someone tell me why I'm paying 5 dollars for Contra, or Defender? I can shell that out for sinstar easily, but when you don't even know if the co-op online is going to work. Why am I paying 15 dollars for Small Arms (though fun, isn't worth that much single player)? There's a great many games that are overpriced, and the biggest problem is that those prices will NOT go down, why should they? Microsoft has a monopoly on the market.

    In addition Microsoft has allowed really shady customers (sharks) into the kiddie pool. Lumines Live for instance is stated as being a full game. However when you pay 15 dollars for it you find out "It's not a full game". You miss out on mission/Puzzle/ Vs. Cpu, and other modes. So really all you get is base mode and skin mode. Nice. Then you shell out even more for Advanced mode (Btw if you paid for Lumines, that's actually worth it). A better system would have been to give away the entire engine for free, but only allow full play if you buy the base pack or advance pack or another pack (which hasn't even been released yet). Microsoft should have just said no to that idea. All told a consumer will have to pay almost 40 bucks for what they can get on the PS2 for 20 or the PSP for 20? Not a good move.

    And to make matters more complicated, Microsoft has screwed the developer by placing rules in place to make sure your Arcade game is no bigger then 50 megs. Which results in Developers screwing consumers by charging more for the second download so they can get around that rule (See Lumines again). Many good games won't be able to exist on the Arcade, but easily will exist on PS3's marketplace style stuff. How they will do Symphony of the Night on the Arcade will be interesting.

    This isn't to say Microsoft doesn't have good choices. The limit in price for a Xbox Live game is 1200 points I believe (might be 1600 but I don't think so). They only give out a certain amount of tickets so no matter how much people want to flood the arcade with retro crap they can't just do it. But still Microsoft has a huge boone and they need to focus their energies on new games.

    That being said there has been a turn around recently from a week marketplace to a good one. Small Arms while over priced is interesting, Assault heroes this week is a great buy, and Roboblitz is a really interesting game. However right around any corner is a pile of Retro games waiting to junk up the month.

    The biggest boone out of all the rubble is demos. Wii needs to get something like that. Ps3 should already have it. The marketplace demos are good, but the Arcade demos sell more games then anything. And that's the core of the solution. Try before you buy and enjoy what's worth money. Geometry wars and mutant storm, yes. Retro games, probably not.

    There's a lot of other Microsoft flaws with marketplace operations (microsoft points, themes and pictures for sale even though you buy the game, overcharging for themes and pictures) but that's the core of the marketplace, not the arcade itself.
    • I think you've done some bad math my friend. The cost of an average game on the XBMP is around $5. Lumines was like $8 for the base and $8 more for the advanced pack.

      Where are you getting that it costs like $40?

      If anything its a bargain.... I paid $40 for it on PSP and that is without many of the modes that the 360 version has. You need to check your math my friend.
      • Check your numbers again. Lumines was 1200 points for the "base" (full game). Which is 15 american dollars. 600 for advance is around 8 dollars. There's talks of at least 2 if not 3 more packs (Vs. CPU, Puzzle/Mission, artist pack) which has rumored prices of around 600-1200 points (depending on the source).

        All three packs that I meantioned that arn't out, have been announced by Microsoft and confirmed by others.
        • Interesting strategy... That they use a "points system" to obfuscate how much you're really paying.
          • It is interesting, until you realize that Xbox Live is a global system and that means many different currencies from different countries. This creates a large number of problems as currency exchange rates are constantly fluctuating. The provider needs to adjust game prices for each region depending on the currency, or your balance changes.

            If you fix the game prices and balance to a single currency and do not change them, then you have people using multiple regional accounts to shop around for arcade games

            • This must be allowed because there are people that move their console from country to country, thus they must be allowed to legally purchase content in that region when they are physically located there.

              You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. If you carry your unmodded PS2, or even DVD player, from California to Australia, good luck purchasing content.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by bigman2003 ( 671309 )
      Your post was interesting. Your writing skills remind me of the opening few paragraphs in all of the game FAQs I've read: like a 14 year old attempting to appear intelligent and worldly.

      The post started out with a bang by providing an explanation of who owns the Xbox Live Marketplace. I don't believe anyone here was questioning that fact. And yes, as in your hypothetical comic book store, the owner makes the rules of what will go on sale because it is their store. (But if you really think a successful

  • Live is great (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Is0m0rph ( 819726 )
    I just bought a 360 a couple months ago after getting an HDTV. I really enjoy the games on Live. Recently the Wed releases have been really good originals. Small Arms, Roboblitz, and the excellent Assault Heroes released this morning have all been good. $10 for Small Arms and Assault Heroes isn't bad at all. Roboblitz for $15 is pushing it. I also like being able to play Defender, Galaga, etc. without using discs or having a hacked Xbox running MAME. Marble Blast is pretty much liked by everybody tha
  • Granted, the XBox Live Arcade is well executed, but it lacks timely content releases. One or two XBLA titles per month and a few 360 game demos just isn't enough by itself to make me buy content for XBLA yet.

    In the meanwhile, Nintendo has beaten Microsoft to the punch just by simply including a basic web browser. Combined with Flash and Java, one could easily pump out dozens of multi-console games to play within the web browser. All Nintendo or Microsoft would have to do is monitor the popularity of such ga

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by badboy_tw2002 ( 524611 )
      They sort of have that with XNA Creators Club [microsoft.com], but the barrier to entry is high ($49 for 4 months, $99 for a year) and there's no easy download solution just yet (you have to download from a 3rd party and run it yourself). Still, it gives you native access to develop on the console and use the full power of the hardware. Not the top priority for casual games, but the option is still there.

      • Re:360 Still Needs A Web Browser (Score:4, Informative)

        by Bones3D_mac ( 324952 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @03:37PM (#17227136)
        Yeah, though the problem is that you have to learn yet another technology/software package to participate, and most likely anything you produce can't be distributed to other users outside of the club.

        With Flash or Java, you'd simply have to code once and export straight onto the web for any user that wishes to play the game within a browser that's formatted specifically for their TV. Niintendo hopefuls would only have to export to NTSC, while 360 or PS3 hopefuls could support a wide range of displays as needed.

        Also, Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony could add a meta tag code parser to assign certain characteristics/buttons on their controller to computer keys/mouse movements as properties the flash/java player understands, so the developers can focus on design and testing on their computer using the keyboard and mouse that would carry over accurately to their console playable versions.
        • Of course, MS hopes that XNA will be the standard you'll want to know, and you can export it to any platform you want as long as its Microsoft :)

          Kidding aside, it does seem odd to me that MS decided to charge for access to the club, and at a subscription rate at that. The whole C# express/XNA thing for free seems like a great idea to win the hearts and minds of future developers (get 'em while they're young) and XNA (from my impression) overall is a pretty solid and easy to use toolkit. But charging for o
        • Also, Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony could add a meta tag code parser to assign certain characteristics/buttons on their controller to computer keys/mouse movements as properties the flash/java player understands, so the developers can focus on design and testing on their computer using the keyboard and mouse that would carry over accurately to their console playable versions.

          Just to further expand on this, here's one possible scenario:

          Let's say you want to created a game for the Wii similar to Hogan's Alley, only
      • They sort of have that with XNA Creators Club, but the barrier to entry is high ($49 for 4 months, $99 for a year)...


        Are you being sarcastic here? $99/year is not a "barrier to entry." It's virtually a "nominal fee" in terms of game development, particularly game development for a console. Sometimes I think exposure to open source free software makes people real rightwads...
        • You're right of course in regards to game development (I plan on signing up after I get a 360 at home). I was speaking more from the players who want hobbyist content. Currently the only way to play XNA games created by other people is to load them yourself from the XNA launcher, which you get only as a member of the club. That of course isn't preventing them from having a download option for everyone later on.
          • Ah, okay, I didn't understand that you were talking about playing non-official XNA-developed games. You're right that $100 a year is too much for that, but even that's understandable since Microsoft wants people to buy games from Xbox Live.

            Oh yeah, and off-topic, how about my lack of preview skills? "Rightwad"??? :)

    • Re:360 Still Needs A Web Browser (Score:4, Insightful)

      by MooseMuffin ( 799896 ) on Wednesday December 13, 2006 @04:06PM (#17227712)
      Right now, your xbox can access xbox live, a closed system whos content is controlled and regulated by Microsost. Everything on it can be verified to be safe, and to work on your xbox. Opening up this secure, closed network to the hostilities of the public internet can't be something they're in a hurry to do. A web browser, especially if its Internet Explorer (and it certainly would be on the xbox) opens up the possibility of arbitrary content and code to be viewed and downloaded. I imagine there are people on this very website who would love to be able to exploit a browser bug and attack a Microsoft console.

      I'm guessing that Microsoft has enough web browser experience to know not to include one.

      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by Creepy Crawler ( 680178 )
        ---I imagine there are people on this very website who would love to be able to exploit a browser bug and attack a Microsoft console.

        BLINKS..

        A Microsoft Console? What? Do they retain ownership when I BOUGHT it, bought the software, buy the electricity to keep it on, have the space in my apartment to keep it in, and buy the bandwidth to keep it on the internet??

        It is MY CONSOLE, not anybody elses property. If I want to crack it open, solder wires to the busses and interconnects, I'm damned if anybody will st
        • You misunderstand me. I don't care what you do to YOUR console. I just don't want you or anyone else getting your potentially exploitative code to MY console.
          • Simple answer: For any device that isn't accessibly patchable by the end user, there should be a firewall watching in and outbound data to verify 2 things.

            1: That the device is not "hacked" by some third entity via an exploit aimed at the general classes of devices (game consoles).
            2: To verify that the device is NOT corrupting or sending private information about your private network or datastores.

            If I cant "play with it whatever I like", it's not trusted and going behind a nice wall.

            My key is that there's
  • Does anyone know how many copies of this game have been sold? I mean the business model behind this game should be a motivation for any indie game developer out there! e.g. 1 million copies times $4 dollars (assuming microsoft gets $1 on a $5 sale) is 4 million dollars thats not bad for a couple of month work I guess.

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