Gran Turismo HD for PS3 Impressions

fistfullast33l writes "On Christmas Eve, Sony released the Gran Turismo HD demo to the U.S. and Japan Playstation 3s. The downloadable demo is about 650mb in size and I let it download while I was at church for Christmas. The following are my own impressions.

Visually, the game is by far one of the best for the PS3. The graphics really are top notch including some extremely visually impressive effects like the sky reflecting off the roof of your car. The crowds are a little static, but look alive enough to be believable. There are no weather effects, but the shine of the sun off the road is realistic as well. All in all, this is arguably the pinnacle of graphics on the console at this moment, and it sets the standard pretty high." Read on for the rest of this concise review -- and chime in below with comments on any other games of this season that you'd like to praise or pan.

"The game is integrated right into the Playstation network, but sadly does not allow you to race against other drivers. Instead, you are limited to time and draft attack trials. However, the gameplay will keep you busy. You are allowed to save your replays and upload your times to the network, but only the top 10 or so are viewable from the track portion of the game. On the main menu there is an option to view where you rank per car. Not surprisingly, the U.S. version definitely had some large gaps between times as of December 25th so if you're really competitive there are some great opportunities to make a name for yourself. I think I was ranked as low as 4000 on some of the tracks as I was just trying to unlock the cars, so there are a lot of competitors out there.

There are 10 cars in all. The IGN article above links to the list if you're interested. You start with the Suzuki Cappuccino and work your way up by beating goal times for each car on the given track. There is only one track, but it's challenging enough that it might take you a few tries initially to beat the times. IGN says it took them about half an hour to unlock the cars, but I turned off a lot of the driving aids such as stability control and automatic shifting so it took me closer to a few hours. Plus, I'm a horrible driver.

From a control standpoint, the game is pretty standard in that you use the buttons to accelerate and brake and the L1 and R1 buttons to shift. The left analog allows you to steer. Contrast this with the F1 Championship Edition demo which uses the Left analog to steer and the Right analog to accelerate and decelerate. I actually prefer the F1 method better as it gives you a little more control over the pace of acceleration, similar to a gas pedal in a real car.

Overall, the game is a lot of fun when you've played out the launch titles and want something that you can show off to your friends. It might not be the most exciting title but it's definitely a challenge for casual gamers and experts alike, and the ability to record your times online adds a bit of fun to the title. Hopefully it will satiate those who need a GT5 fix and there is a rumor that more content will be released later on.

As a side note, my parents wanted to try out the PS3 so I let them play the F1 Championship Edition, Motorstorm, and GT HD demos, and they preferred F1 because it was easier to drive. GT was second hardest and Motorstorm totally confused them as the tracks aren't well defined."

---

Thanks to fistfullast33l for this review.

On control schemes

[drinkypoo]

From a control standpoint, the game is pretty standard in that you use the buttons to accelerate and brake and the L1 and R1 buttons to shift. The left analog allows you to steer. Contrast this with the F1 Championship Edition demo which uses the Left analog to steer and the Right analog to accelerate and decelerate. I actually prefer the F1 method better as it gives you a little more control over the pace of acceleration, similar to a gas pedal in a real car.

The reason the default changed, which IIRC happened with Gran Turismo 3, is that having accel and brake at opposite ends of an axis precludes heel-toe braking, which is a necessary technique out in the real world, and thus useful to get the best possible times in gran turismo.

I can't heel-toe in the real world (feet too big, legs too long) and I can't drive worth a fuck in computer racing games (no buttometer makes it much harder - I need the ass dyno for assistance) so I've never employed it myself. I find that preloading is usually enough. But it does make sense.

Re:

[MoriaOrc]

With respect to the submitter's complaint about "precise control," I was under the impression that the PS3 controllers had replaced the bottom two shoulder buttons with some sort of analog "trigger" instead of just a button. The triggers on the XBox controller work great for gas and break because they have a long enough range from "fully pressed" to "not pressed" that you have fairly precise control over how much gas/break to give the car. I'd assume (if I heard correctly about the controller) that someth

Re:

[Bastian]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought heel-toe braking was a technique for downshifting while braking where you brake with your heel, take the car out gear, tap the gas a little bit (while braking) to get the engine speed matched with the wheel speed, and downshift. (It allows a smooth downshift so drivers can keep better control of the car.) Given that Gran Turismo doesn't do anything like simulating a clutch pedal, how could it possibly give you a way to do heel-toe braking in the game?

My gues

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I thought heel-toe braking was a technique for downshifting while braking where you brake with your heel, take the car out gear, tap the gas a little bit (while braking) to get the engine speed matched with the wheel speed, and downshift.

You just described heel-toe shifting. You can match RPMs without heel-toe, I do it all the time. Or at least I did when I had a car with a stick; right now I'm driving an auto (yecch.) Heel-toe braking is where you brake into the tu

Re:

[Criterion]

Bzzzzzt. Sorry, try again. Where in the world did you hear that load of hogwash? Heel/toe, by whatever other name you want to call it, is, and always has been, a process of downshifting. What you describe is a form of suspension control, a commonly used technique for weight shifting. One might wonder how long you have been driving to think it is something new and "superior".. much less think it is what is universally known as heel/toe (driving, shifting, braking.. it's all the same thing).

Re:

[Bastian]

I'm thinking what you're talking about is a misnomer. There's left-foot braking, where you use your left foot to work the brake and your right foot to work the gas. This is a fairly common thing in racing, for the reasons you mentioned. I can't really imagine many people, even seasoned drivers, are good enough to manipulate the full range of the brake and gas pedal consistently (and safeily) with one foot while going around a turn. (This isn't really an issue with heel-toe because you're really just givi

Re:

[Criterion]

Please don't tell me you brake with your *heel*. >

Just in case you are serious.. before you break your ankle.. you are supposed to brake with your toes, and have your heel on the gas.

Re:

[zero_offset]

Bullshit. I spend about 60 days a year on-track and I guarantee you that everyone has a slightly different position. Some guys point their feet one way, and some guys the other. Some people I know use the edges of their foot on both pedals. I use my heel on the brake and the outer edge of my foot on the gas. Has a lot to do with pedal placement in your vehicle of choice, too -- the position you describe was more comfortable for me in the Rustang-based Panoz GTR-A's that I learned in quite a few years back.

W

Re:

[Criterion]

Indeed using the ball and side of your foot is a common way to do it, but I was taught from an early age (started driving at 12.. egads.. driving for 30 years now) to always use the upper part of your foot for braking as you have more control over modulation that way.. not to mention I've been in many cars, but none with the pedal placement to allow reaching the gas while your heel is on the brake. I've only run 4 cars on track, so you've seen many more setups than I, but I've never known anybody that said

Re:

[zero_offset]

It's a lot easier to understand when you're talking about cars with adjustments for each pedal. Also a lot of it depends on where the gas pedal actually moves -- most gas pedals sort of rotate quite a lot around the linkage that actually moves. On quite a few cars the position of the linkage just happens to be better-suited to being depressed by the upper portion of the foot.

As I said, it really tends to be a combination of the vehicle and personal preference. I mostly run a Viper, and my three closest Vipe

Re:

[ReKleSS]

I was kind of annoyed when I found that GT4 didn't allow me to configure the right analog for throttle... but then I found out that was the default setting and couldn't be changed anyway. GT HD might well be the same... anyone want to find out?

Also, it would be nice to know if my Driving Force will still work.

Re:

[Criterion]

I'm just guessing that you are completely unaware that heel/toe driving is only necessary if one also actually has a clutch? By asserting that heel/toe is useful in GT would then by default assert that you have a clutch in GT which you do not. Therefore I can conclude that you are, indeed, talking about something which you do not understand.

Re:

[zero_offset]

It's a pretty poor "simulator" that doesn't have a clutch, eh?

I sure hope Simbin's GTR retains the full simulation mode for the Xbox 360 that is available in the PC version...

Re:

[Criterion]

Hmmm.. one would think so, but how many others do simulate clutch usage? I know SRS has a clutch button, but I think it's more for popping into a drift than actually being used as a clutch.. and I also would not consider labeling it a simulator as it's a rather average arcade racer.

I can state that I would take PGR or Forza (or TOCA, Collin McRae, Rallisport, SegaGT etc) over GT any day (and do hehe).

Re:

[zero_offset]

I used to rate PGR over GT until I put force-feedback wheels on GT. PGR can't touch it. But Forza is generally better all-around, even if the original Xbox lacked FF wheels. I have high hopes for Forza 2 even though I'm not too terribly impressed with the 360's FF wheel (rather weak force level, otherwise it's ok).

Simbin is the real-deal though. On the PC side the game outputs performance data which can actually be run through the real-world Motec analysis software -- that's saying quite a lot in terms of s

Re:

[smash]

Heel+toe is not used in the GT series yet.

However, being able to apply the brakes AND accelerator at the same time is good for burnouts, which can be done in GT4 :)

Re:On control schemes

[Heir Of The Mess]

I don't see what use it would be in a computer game as it's more to do with the mechanics of downshifting at speed. From wikipedia:

Heel-and-toe is a driving technique used in performance driving. It involves operating the throttle and brake pedals simultaneously with the right foot, while facilitating normal activation of the clutch with the left foot. It is used when braking and downshifting simultaneously (like when going around a turn), and allows the driver to "blip" the throttle to raise the engine speed and smoothly engage the lower gear.

Heel-and-toe is used before entry into a turn while a vehicle is under braking, preparing the transmission to be in the optimal gear to accelerate out of the turn. One benefit of downshifting before entering a turn is a jolt to the drivetrain, or any other unwanted dynamics, will not upset the vehicle as badly when going in a straight line; the same jolt while turning may upset the vehicle enough to cause loss of control if it occurs after the turn is begun. Another benefit is "heel-and-toeing" allows you to downshift at the last moment before entering the turn, after you have started braking and the car has slowed, so the engine speed when the lower gear is engaged will not be too high.

Performance vehicles are usually modified (if necessary) so that the heights of the brake and accelerator pedals are closely matched to permit easy use of heel-and-toe, and that the pedals are not too far apart.

The name, stemming from earlier automotive designs where the accelerator pedal was on the left and could be actuated with the heel while the brake pedal was actuated with the toe, is misleading regarding how the technique is carried out in modern cars, i.e., operating the brake with the left edge of the foot, while rocking it down and to the right to operate the throttle. With practice, it becomes possible to smoothly and independently operate both pedals with one foot. The technique is common in all forms of motorsport, especially rallying.

Heel and toe braking has the following steps:

Brake with the ball (left edge) of your right foot while the car is in gear
Disengage (press) the clutch once the car has slowed down significantly (if double clutching, shift to the neutral position and engage the clutch)
Blip the throttle to match the engine rpm to the rpm needed for the selected gear using either the heel or the right edge of your right foot
Shift the gear lever to correct gear (disengage the clutch first if double clutching)
Engage the clutch, release the brake and roll your foot onto the accelerator

Re:On control schemes

[Bastian]

The entire explanation he provided actually explains exactly why you don't need it in the game. Have you ever had a poorly-executed downshift in the middle of a turn throw your car out of control while playing GT?

It's not that there's no gears or shifting in the GT series. It's that there's no clutch, or any of the interface complexity that comes with operating a real manual transmission. Not only is the phenomenon that heel-and-toe is designed to handle not simulated in the game, but one of the key controls necessary for executing it (namely, a clutch pedal) is also absent.

Re:

[samkass]

The real point of heel-toe is not the possible loss of control, it's having the engine at the top of the power curve at all times. (Most gasoline engines have a fairly narrow range of RPMs where they produce the most horsepower and torque. Diesel doesn't really have this issue, which is one reason why some drivers hate them.) Anyway, since you're braking into a turn you're slowing down (and also giving the front tires more traction), so to keep the engine in the power band you have to downshift. Which m

Re:

[smash]

The real point of heel-toe is not the possible loss of control, it's having the engine at the top of the power curve at all times.

Incorrect. It's about keeping the car under control. If you're turning slightly while braking and don't heel+toe when you downshift, depending on how aggressive your clutch is, you can unsettle the rear wheels and cause the car to spin (in a rear wheel drive car at least).

To obtain your level 3 CAMS license in Australia (not sure what the equivalents are over seas), you nee

Re:On control schemes

[drinkypoo]

Uhm... no need to heal toe in a video game. And, I'm 6"tall and drive a R32 and heal toe by rolling my foot, have for 12 years with no issues.

1. You don't need to heal your toe unless you damage it.
2. I'm 6'7" and have size 16 feet. You are puny and uninteresting.

By the way, you are obviously confusing heel-toe shifting with heel-toe braking, which is not the same thing and which is especially sad since I already explained the difference to someone else before you even left this comment. Heel-toe shifting is used for rev matching. Heel-toe braking is a trail braking technique, and is the correct way to shift from braking to accelerating in a turn.

Re:

[Ender Ryan]

Bigger feet should actually make it easier to execute a heel-and-toe shift if you use the side of your foot on the gas instead of actually using your heel to blip the gas.

Re:

[Criterion]

Your problem with racers seems to me to stem from the fact that you try to talk like you know what you're talking about without actually KNOWING what you're talking about. Previous posters are correct, heel/toe.. as known by the terminology of heel/toe (or heel-toe.. or whatever combination of syntax you care to use) is a shifting technique. And yes, I *have* been on a few tracks in my days. I also know many racers and not ONE of them would refer to what you do as heel/toe. That would be called trail brakin

Download while I was at church for Christmas

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be a Unitarian. Fucking Catholics have no wireless access and the powerstrip situation is abysmal.

Re:

[billster0808]

What about Catholics who abstain?

Re:Download while I was at church for Christmas

[Reality Master 101]

Beats my Amish brethren, where we stare at a block of wood with a painted road scene, while thine other players make "clomp clomp" noises to simulate the horse and buggy racing.

Re:

[dangitman]

When your womenfolk cook dinner, does one of your brothers paint a sign that says "Cooking..." and a progress bar underneath it?

It's official!

[Anonymous Coward]

"On Christmas Eve, Sony released the Gran Turismo HD demo to the U.S. and Japan Playstation 3s. [...] I let it download while I was at church for Christmas.

And there you have it - we have a new & improved Santa Claus. It is called the Internet, and it encourages you to go to church.

It's good to know...

[heartless_]

I wonder what a car crash looks like in HD? Guess we'll still be waiting to find out! And isn't it funny that there isn't any weather effects. Any console can make pretty, but static environments. Let me know when "fake" backgrounds become something more than a pretty painting that you get to look at.

Re:

[KingNaught]

No crash effects in this game, I rammed my car into a railing at top speed and it just came to a stop.

Re:

[donaldm]

GT games have never shown crash damage.

Whenever I purchased a racing game for my kids I always made sure the game showed crash damage otherwise my kids and their friends would not play it. Still they mainly played racing games just to crash the cars so games like Twisted Metal and Destruction Derby (there are many others) where the most popular. I do have friends who rave about GT but they are not interested in crashing the car so crash damage is not important and in many ways it would detract from the game

Re:

[Bobzibub]

no car crashes... You just bump into a static fence.
But I really really suck at driving. Especially with the traction control and the stability control off.

Nobody lend me your car! = )

Re:

[oGMo]

You're whining there aren't weather effects in a 10-car, 2-track demo game? And that the ... backgrounds are fake? You should be asking about how the cars handle, how good the physics are, and similar. Gran Turismo leans far more toward simulation racing.

If you want spectacular HD wrecks and destructible tracks and all that, get Full Auto 2... it's got all that and more.

Re:

[heartless_]

Last time I watched a race any car that bumped into the wall or another car didn't win the race... in every GT game it has never been about sim racing unless you put it on time trials. It is a joke of a racing game and the only thing it has ever gotten right was it's licensing deal to include real car brands. Let me know when I don't just pick the fastest car and bounce off the AI drivers and fake walls to get around every corner.

Re:It's good to know...

[Grand]

while every version was in its development stage, they would always say that it was going to include damage. Then when it was released, of course it didnt. This is my biggest problem with the game.

Re:

[Aqua OS X]

Yup. I don't care how pretty the cars are, the fact that they're indestructible is incredibly lame.

Availability for other systems

[RiotXIX]

Are there any plans to release this for other hardware and OSs? Speaking as an Amiga OS 4 user it's one of my concerns.

Shill?

[forgotten_my_nick]

The whole piece reads like one of those shill adverts you get from some marketing drone.

The OP doesn't work for Zipatoni by any chance?

US Army Wants YOU!

[FFFish]

Did you get the US Army advertisement when you clicked for videos?

What a nice touch of Christmas there. "Son, you've changed." Well, yah, having one's left leg blown off by an IED can do that to a person.

Contradictory

[Tx]

Visually, the game is by far one of the best for the PS3.

No. It's either "one of the best", or it's "by far the best", it can't be both. Make up your mind and get back to us.

Wow So Next Gen OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

some extremely visually impressive effects like the sky reflecting off the roof of your car.

Haha, well I guess we shouldn't mention that the sky has been reflecting off cars' roofs ever since Gran Turismo on the PSX? Ahh, hype, gotta love it.

Re:Wow So Next Gen OMG

[Surt]

But cmon, this is an HD sky reflecting off an HD roof!

Re:

[ozbird]

Haha, well I guess we shouldn't mention that the sky has been reflecting off cars' roofs ever since Gran Turismo on the PSX?

I wouldn't know - like in the real world, I prefer to drive from the driver's seat (1st person), not hanging off an invisible trailer towed behind the car.
Like another poster mentioned, the lack of G-force feedback on your body takes away some of the driving experience, but you can compensate a little by leaning into corners...

Re:

[syle]

He didn't say it's new, he said it's impressive.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Same ol' GT

[Nfinit]

I love GT, GT4 is the reason I finally broke down and picked up a Slimline PS2, but until a working car damage system is implemented-- something Sega GT on the Dreamcast holds to this day over the Gran Turismo games-- it's really hard to take GT HD seriously anymore. And that's not even getting into other advancements made such as driving lines, more than six cars on the track and working driver AI.

Re:Same ol' GT

[Criterion]

There will be no damage system in GT until the car manufacturers allow their cars to be shown all broke'd up.

Re:

[Criterion]

I think it's more an issue of how many cars are in each game, and the licensing of each model. It may be more cost efficient to pay for the luxury of busting up a few dozen models than for several hundred. I do not know the specific legalities of this, or if there have been updates in their stance on this, but I have run a reasonable well known GT forum for 5+ years and this is the commonly stated thing about damage, even from the game devs years ago on the official Sony forums (the old, now defunct ones).

Re:

[Bastian]

I don't know about the car libraries in all those games, but I do know that Gran Turismo features a whole lot of cars from a *lot* of manufacturers, far more than I've seen in any other game that features real cars. And for GT to include a damage model, they'd have to get all of those manufacturers to agree to it. It might not be a big deal for some of the smaller or less popular manufacturers, but if it's Honda or Toyota that's digging in their heels on the subject, I can see where that would easily be en

Impressions

[oGMo]

A few impressions ... GT:HD is decent, but I don't know if I'd call it the best-looking game the PS3 has to offer, but I can't comment too much on this as I'm still sadly playing in standard def. However, people previously commenting on how this was a high-res GT4 need to take a closer look. Any criticism directed toward it is rather silly, though; it's free, it's fun, and it looks good. You may want more, but come on, it's free.

That said, Resistance has been my main focus. I don't even like first-person shooters, normally. The polygon count is nice, but since I'm playing this in SD it's not really of primary concern; a really solid Insomniac shooter is. If you've ever played Ratchet and Clank, you know how Insomniac can put together a level and pace things: though far different than R&C, their style and skill is very evident. They toss lots of things to shoot at you, and give you lots of stuff to shoot with, which are the two fundamental things a shooter needs; they did this in R&C, and they did it again in Resistance. It's not some fundamentally different, revolutionary game; but it is a very fun FPS that has kept even me, who gets bored after minutes of play with other FPS's, interested enough to keep playing. I guess it gets a lot of the little things right.

The other game I have at the moment is Full Auto 2. This is a blast, too, pun not entirely unintended. To summarize, the game is basically the bastard child of Need for Speed and Twisted Metal. The races can feel intensely fast-paced, and the battle arenas play out much the same way as TM. The story is ignorable; I have. The one noticeable annoyance is what seems to be stuttery audio/video ... but strangely, this only occurs during menu sequences and cutscenes. If it's an intentional effect, it's not a good one. Fortunately it's not a nuisance when you actually play the game.

How do the visuals compare with 360 games?

[the computer guy nex]

The launch PS3 titles are comparable with the Xbox 360 launch titles, but cannot touch recent releases such as Gears of War/NFSC. How does this game stack up?

The crowds are a little static

[SnarfQuest]

The crowds are a little static, but look alive enough to be believable

What's with that? Last time I watched a race, they had this gorilla throwing barrels down a series of ramps, and all the fans had to climb ladders or jump over the barrels on the ramps. When a fan reached the top, the ramps rearranged themselves, and it all started over again. What's with these lasy fans nowadays?

Not cool enough for me.

[suv4x4]

You know, it looks fine in 320x240 trailers, but in HD screenshots you can see it looks like any other game.

It's not good enough for me you guys! I don't wanna see stretched textures and low-polygon models anymore! I mean, it's next gen!

COME ON! And on top of that half the scenery is precomputed and static. For example, going into a tunnel of course drops shadows on your car since otherwise it'd be too jarring. But when outside and crossing the shadow of a tree on the street, the shadow magically remains be

The Interesting Subtext For The Game Industry

[EXTomar]

The history behind this game was that it was more or less Gran Turismo 4 on the PS3. Of course it was drawn out trying to figure out what else they could do with GT4 plus some more bells and whistles when someone realized that this was a dumb idea. Instead of putting more time into this game which would just be recycling, they stopped work on the game at this demo level and proceeded forward on a completely redesigned stuff that will be Gran Turismo 5.

The subtext in all of this is that "concepts" like thi

Not quite right.

[Warlock7]

...Contrast this with the F1 Championship Edition demo which uses the Left analog to steer and the Right analog to accelerate and decelerate.

In GTHD, you can also use the right analog to accelerate and decelerate in addition to being able to use the buttons.

New experiences with the PS3

[MrJynxx]

I own both the 360/ps3 (and the wii, I know, stupid :)

I had an older style hdtv I picked up about 4 years ago. So I got the ps3 a few weeks back, hooked it up and was really not impressed with the ps3(no upscaling which really screwed me). Then gran turismo came out, i downloaded it, again. Bleh, not impressed at all.

So, today I decided to pick the Sony SXRD 50" LCD Projection TV, and after hours of dealing with boxing day lines I finally got it home, unpacked and set up (many hours later).

All I have to say is WOW! Gran Turismo looks amazing, I can really tell the difference now. At first I thought PGR3 looked better but now it's a totally different story. And when it comes to 1080p at first I was not a believer, but from what I've seen so far that's changed significantly. Damn, it's been mind boggling, hell even Rainbow 6 for the 360 looks way better.

So that got me thinking, the ps3 isn't so bad if you have a new tv, it's only bad when you have older style tv's(dont' like that personally) but now I'm not so pissed at the ps3(I like the 360 controller better though :)

And Gran Turismo is free and it does have a few things to do even if it's the same track over and over again..

MrJynx

The Gran Tusimo franchise

[h3]

Coincidentally, I'm in the midst of playing GT4 right now on the PS2. I'm trying to complete the 24hr Nurburgring event and for those of you not familiar with the series, this really means 24 hours. You can't save and come back to it later. You *can* pause the game, so it's not like you have to sit there for 24 hours, but still. My PS2 has been on for 3 days straight and I'm only 12:32:28:250 in.

Which illustrates, I think, where the GT franchise has gone wrong. I've been a huge fan of the series since the first edition, on PSX. It's made a wannabe riceboy out of me, in particular my fascination with the beast of a car called the Skyline. I even own one now, albeit the North American domestic market version. I don't play games as much as I used to and really, my PlayStations have become Gran Turismo machines. I bought my PS2 only after GT3 came out; I bought GT4 shortly after release more than a year and half ago.

And as I sit there, circling Nurburgring over and over and over (on lap 102 now), it's clear to me that this isn't fun anymore. Polyphony Digital lost sight of the "fun" aspect in GT3, I think. Endurance races existed before then, but in GT3, they got ludicrous and now, it's just completely insane. 24 hours??? For a single race??? And this is not the only one- there's another 24h hour one, plus a bunch of 8 hours. 2-4 hours was bad enough in the earlier versions.

I enjoy the technical aspects of the game - finding the line, the brake points, the differences between cars. But I can't also help think about all the things I don't like about the game while mindless doing this event. Like the utter shit AI in computer controlled cars. They drive like you don't exist, ramming you from behind as if you were invisible. And they make the same mistakes over and over. The lack of balance in the races - very few are actually challenging when you take a LM Fairlady against tuned production cars, or as in this case, a Minolota Toyota race car against LM cars. You could argue that I should pick cars that are more competitive and sometimes I do, but they don't make it easy to figure out what you are up against and with the potential "penalty" to have to do another 24 fucking hours if I lose, no, I'm not going to pick a competitive car.

Polyphony's strength, obviously, is their graphics wizardry- each new version takes your breath away. But they really need to rethink gameplay. Lose the ridiculous endurance races. Pare down the total number of events - it's ungodly and without the sense of satisifaction of "completing" a game, I feel less anticipation for the next one. Do something to make races more competitive - perhaps chose the opposing field based on the car the player brings in. Make the computer controlled cars mercy to the same physics as the player. Create bigger penalties for crashing (much has been said about how the auto manufacturers won't allow damage to appear on their cars, but there are other ways). And so on.

Buying the next GT edition has always been an automatic for me, but after this, I'm not so sure. When a game is more work than fun, what's the point?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[HappySqurriel]

Well, it depends on whether you want your "Realistic Racing Simulation" to have realistic racing simulated well ...

Gran Turismo is a game where there is a massive ammount of attention to detail in practically every portion of the Graphics and Sound but when it comes to the actual racing simulation it lacks a lot of realism that SNES/Genesis games had. The fact is that there is no damage, or consequences, for getting into a collision with another driver; remember a valid strategy in GT has been to bank off o

Re:

[miyako]

I'm not sure that you can completely pin this problem with the game designers though. As I understand it, most car companies will only license out the rights to use their cars in games under the condition that the car is basically shown only in pristine, un-wrecked condition.
I've never been a fan of the GT games, but I think that for a lot of people one of the biggest appeals is the wide variety of cars to choose from, so it's not like the designers can really just say "well screw you car companies" and g

Re:

[meringuoid]

You'll notice how most other manufacturers you'd want in a racing game (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Ford, RUF (as the standard Porsche cheat), Aston Martin, Jaguar, Pagani and so on and so forth) get the merry crap beaten out of them in the Project Gotham Racing series.

Indeed, Aston Martin in particular probably don't mind seeing their cars wrecked. Their top bit of product placement has always been James Bond, and 007 has never been an especially careful driver...

Re:

[smash]

For a lot of people, gt4 is a "toy" as opposed to a game. sure you need to win races to earn money/cars, but that lasts a couple of months - once you've got a decent money supply, GT is more about tweaking cars and playing time-attack, drifting, racing your friends, and otherwise using the game as a sort of "simulator", for lack of a better word.

There's reasons for the lack of car damage - to be honest, it doesn't phase me. The "consequences" of crashing are that you screw up your lap time, screw up you

Re:

[gorfie]

While not perfect the graphics are the best I've seen for a racing game thus far. The trees and grass could use alot of work and the cars themselves, while fantastic relative to other games, still show signs of being rendered. The graphics are still impressive and it is enough to make most gamers (including myself) want to try the game out. And if the gameplay is good (I wouldn't know) then all those gamers trying it out will likely shell out some cash to own it.

Re:

[nate nice]

I guess I'd assume he's saying the download took about the time it takes to go to church for Christmas.

Are you scared that someone went to church? Does it bother you someone mentioned church?

I find it perfectly relevant as it gave me a range of time it took to download the file, but then I can think in the abstract.

Re:Church?

[UbuntuDupe]

I guess I'd assume he's saying the download took about the time it takes to go to church for Christmas.

Yes, and, more importantly, that you can't do anything else with a PS3 while it's downloading, unlike the Xbox 360, which will download non-disruptively in the background while you play games or something.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

Xbox 360, which will download non-disruptively in the background while you play games or something.

That wasn't true until recently.

Re:

[dangitman]

that you can't do anything else with a PS3 while it's downloading,

Holy fuck! I don't care if I can't use it before it's downloaded. I just think it's amazing that you can download a PS3. Beats the hell out of going to the store and paying for one. Link please?

Re:Church?

[TubeSteak]

I guess I'd assume he's saying the download took about the time it takes to go to church for Christmas.

Are you scared that someone went to church? Does it bother you someone mentioned church?

You've made one fatal assumption, that everyone reading this knows how long a christmass mass is.

Not everyone goes to church for christmas. Some christians don't go to church at all! And surprise of surprises, some people aren't even christian and have never even been in a church!

He might as well have said "by the time I finished churning one quarter of a hogshead's worth of butter, the download finished"

That's why the GP asked why it was relevant.

Re:Church?

[Basehart]

Even if sinners who are condemned to eternal damnation knew how long church lasts these days, how do they know much time to add on for travel? The poster could have driven for three hours to get to his church to drop off some dry cleaning, and then stopped off on the way back home to help a friend resurface their driveway for another hour or two. Or maybe the church is right next door, in which case it only took a few moments to download two thirds of a gig, which is pretty damn impressive if you ask this goat lover!

Re:Church?

[nate nice]

It's relevant to people who know. Just like how it would be relevant if he indeed did mention it took as long as finishing churning one quarter of a hogshead's worth of butter. If you don't know what the writer means, then it's your responsibility to figure it out, or ignore it all together.

If you don't know what this is and it's important to you then look it up. I don't go to Christian church (or any "Church" for that matter) but I've driven by 1000910291290 churches in my life and have seen the times masses are and it seems like it's about an hour or an hour and a half. If I really cared I query for the average time of Christmas masses or something to that effect. I think Baptists go for hours actually as I remember someone telling me that when I worked in a restaurant when I was a kid and on Sunday you would get a large group around 3:00 of people dressed nicely and referred to as the "Baptists" (not in a negative manner either) by some employees. I then learned that they often go to church for 3 or more hours. But the average Christian is around 1-1.5 hours from what I've learned

But then, I'm curious of the world around me and not just self absorbed. I like to know about things I don't know about because I was born with a curious mind, which you've eluded to you have not. I guess I feel bad for you that you need direct exposure to something to feel like you know anything about it. I guess with my apparent unique ability to think in the abstract, I also have a natural curiosity that lends itself to discovery and knowledge about non-sequitor things.

But back on topic, this isn't why the parent made the comment he did. I know this and you know this.

He did it because he's intolerant of anything "God" related and believes he has a certain right to not be exposed to the ideas or print of this God. He's intolerant much like some people on the other side of the coin are intolerant.

Re:

[TubeSteak]

In replying to me, you've made an awful lot of assumptions:

1. That you know anything about my religious affiliation, or lack thereof
2. That I'm self absorbed and/or lack curiousity
3. That you somehow know the motivations of an AC based on four words

Try using you "apparent unique ability to think in the abstract" to help you not take things so personally in the future. And try not to insult people, it is rude.

cheers

Re:

[nate nice]

I made the assumptions because you and the AC painted them clear as day.

Cheers!

Re:

[dangitman]

You've made one fatal assumption, that everyone reading this knows how long a christmass mass is

Is it a massive Christ who weighs even more than the typical massive Christl?

Re:

[fistfullast33l]

I originally had written that I downloaded it overnight but realized that it actually was the F1 demo that downloaded overnight and the GT demo that downloaded while I went to church. I really was actually trying to give some context for how long the demo took to download, but decided that explaining the whole situation wasn't really necessary. Instead, it gives people the idea that it took about an hour to two to download over a standard cable connection using the wireless card in the PS3 and an 802.11g

Re:

[grolschie]

I let it download while I was at church for Christmas

this is relevant how?

Intolerant, much? Maybe that PC brigade would have preferred that he said:

"I let it download while I was at some place (that I cannot mention for fear of offending someone) to celebrate some festival (that I also cannot mention by name for fear of offending someone)."

Re:Church?

[Samus]

So mentioning that he went to church is shoving it down your throat? Would you rather he lied? I think he was just providing context for the story. Why should he have to hide what he did? Really if he would have mentioned that he went to temple or went to his local mosque or to the new Rocky movie it wouldn't have made me feel any different. I guess I'm just not as sensitive to people mentioning religious activities as you.

Re:

[dabadab]

You have apparently totally missed the - completely off-topic - parody of typical homophobic speech.

Re:

[Samus]

I don't think you would have complained so loudly if he said that after kicking of the download he popped a frozen pizza in the oven and sat in front of the tube for an hour and a half. Really, he could just be one of those guys that goes to church on Christmas and Easter and only really went this time because his girlfriend drug him along. You seem to believe that because he went to church on Christmas Eve and mentions it as part of the chronology leading up to his review that he is some kind of bible th

Re:

[dangitman]

he could just be one of those guys that goes to church on Christmas and Easter and only really went this time because his girlfriend drug him along.

They drug people to make them go to church now? Jeez, I thought most churches were anti-drugs.

Re:

[marcello_dl]

My guess is that he mentioned that he went to church so that people here don't think he's some loser that has nothing better to do than wait for some hundred-MB download to complete.

Especially on Christmas Eve. Of course we all know he didn't recite his prayers but mumbled some arcane sounding countdown of megabytes instead :)

Re:

[Heir Of The Mess]

Like the guy who always finds a way to say that he doesn't own a tv http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694 [theonion.com]. It probably would have been better if the guy stated the time period is terms that more of us can relate to rather than something sensitive like religion.

Re:

[aristotle-dude]

Yeah, I do. God botherers can do what they like in private. Shoving it down my throat is not appreciated. This is a case of the latter with regards to mentioning it completely out of context just to get it in. It instantly put me off reading the rest of the review.

Bob

No, he is not shoving anything down your throat. You are just intolerant of people with views/lifestyles that differ from your own. Grow up for crying out loud. When you live in a pluralistic society you should be prepared to encounter people from all walks of life. You should not feel any different whether he had gone to church or the corner store during the download.

Re:

[Overly Critical Guy]

Welcome to why most Americans hate liberals and think they're condescending pricks who want a big, expensive nanny state to regulate everything that might offend them. You don't have the right to not be offended, kiddo.

Re:Church?

[jrockway]

> Yeah, mod me down as a troll. That's what all you believers do isn't it? La la la, I can't hear you...

To be fair, I don't have any ties to organized (or disorganized) religion, and I would have modded you down. Your entire post seems to have been a rant about how you're better than everyone because you don't believe in God. That's great, but as you say -- keep it to yourself. Nobody cares. (i.e. keep your non-believing in private. believers and non-believers are equally annoying).

As for the troll mod, it was the best substitute for -1 STFU or -1 You're An Idiot.

Re:

[Kirin Fenrir]

Gran Turismo HD is a FREE product to show off the GT5 engine; considering that, "10 cars/single player only" isn't too shabby.

Re:Did I see it right?

[imsabbel]

What part of "DEMO" didnt get into your tiny, preoccupied with "back then games were better", mind?

Re:I Hear The Guys From Bizarre Aren't Taking It W

[HappySqurriel]

I heard someone talking about the guys from Bizarre(Project Gotham Racing) got their first look at the demo and are despondent. Not really surprising when an early demo comes out and your own fans are going nuts over the driving model and graphics.

I simply don't believe you ...
As a general rule, anything an Anonymous Coward says on Slashdot which doesn't have a source is a lie.

They had to run PGR3 in low rez(1024x600) just to get the game to run at 30fps and now GT is running at 1080p and 60fps and graphically blows it away. That's over three times the resolution for GT.

I don't know too much about PGR3 specifically, but I do remember that up until the final month before the XBox 360's launch most developers were still using their "Alpha Dev-kits" (PowerPC 970MP dual core and Radeon based GPU) which would compile the same code but were very different in performance than the XBox 360; being that PGR 3 was a launch game it wouldn't surprise me to find out they didn't have the opportunity to optimize the engine to the system before it was released (meaning it underperformed by quite a bit).

It is scary to think what PS3 games are going to look like a year from now.

We have hit a point of diminishing returns in graphics, even if you had a system that was 4 times as powerful as the PS3 you probably would not notice a dramatic improvement in the graphics of games being released for it. The PS3 and XBox 360 will have games which look (basically) identical on both systems because neither system is that much more powerful than the other.

Re:

[powerlord]

We have hit a point of diminishing returns in graphics, even if you had a system that was 4 times as powerful as the PS3 you probably would not notice a dramatic improvement in the graphics of games being released for it. The PS3 and XBox 360 will have games which look (basically) identical on both systems because neither system is that much more powerful than the other.

This may (or may not) be true in terms of what the graphics card/chip can deliver, however the larger Disk capacity might mean more variati

Re:

[AbRASiON]

This does not negate the fact that the PS3's "amazing blu ray optical disc!" at 50gb is effectively useless because the machine has 256/256mb of ram to work with, so all that extra storage space is BUNK unless the disc / drive is terrifyingly fast (it's not) and streams like GTA3 OR if the machine has / had more ram (it doesn't)

The PS3 may or may not be cool in some other areas but from a game perspective, unless you're talking FMV, the huge optical drive is abso-freaking-loutely useless.

Re:

[king-manic]

This does not negate the fact that the PS3's "amazing blu ray optical disc!" at 50gb is effectively useless because the machine has 256/256mb of ram to work with, so all that extra storage space is BUNK unless the disc / drive is terrifyingly fast (it's not) and streams like GTA3 OR if the machine has / had more ram (it doesn't)

The PS3 may or may not be cool in some other areas but from a game perspective, unless you're talking FMV, the huge optical drive is abso-freaking-loutely useless.

The 360 has a simil

Re:

[Simon Garlick]

I heard someone talking about the guys from The Rest Of The World, and they don't care about whether or not the sunlight reflects off the roof of each car. They're too busy having fun, playing Nintendo.

Re:

[nekura]

What?

You download the demo via your PS3 over a little thing called the internet. How'd you jump from downloadable demo to lack of copy protection mechanism?

Re:

[derrickh]

The Xbox360 says 'Hi'.

D

Re:

[Nasarius]

And eventually you reach the uncanny valley [wikipedia.org], though I suppose that's not quite as applicable to a racing game. IMO, we reached "good enough" about seven years ago with Quake 3. Anything beyond that serves no functional purpose. Fun with serviceable graphics beats flashy and shallow any day.

Re:

[Jeremy Erwin]

The game is also absolutely gorgeous. The details in just the asphalt are amazing. And these kinds of details are much appreciated as every visual clue helps me understand the characteristics of the road which better enables me to drive a quicker lap.

Assuming that the physics model reflects the eye candy, yes...

Re:

[Dibblah]

Uhuh.

If you think GT? is a simulator and you have a PC and wheel (yes, your Driving Force Pro works with the PC), try out Live For Speed [liveforspeed.net]

It really is worth it. The only thing you'll be wanting is a motion platform, which is something that LFS can output to :)

Re:

[smash]

Whilst live for speed is good (yes, I have it, and yes I have a wheel), the GT series still "feels" more like a real car the way it handles. And yes, I have a Nissan 180sx to compare it to :D

Re:

[Slashcrap]

This is by far the best driving game I've ever seen or experienced. If you live for driving games and have an HD display the free demo is worth the cost of a ps3. Nothing comes close. Keep up the good work Sony!

While you're here, do you have any tips on how I can get my parents to buy me a PSP?

Re:

[fistfullast33l]

$650 for a Next Gen console? Please, my P4 gaming comp I built 4 years ago looks better than this thing. PC gaming FTW IMO.

Ironically, I too have a P4 3ghz that I built about 3 years ago with a Radeon 9800 that I had to buy from Asia because the 256MB cards were so new they weren't being sold here yet. Now, I haven't upgraded a single piece of that machine since I built it. Perhaps I can get a game that would look as nice as this (FarCry wasn't too bad) but it runs slow as spit and definitely not at 1920x

Re:

[Brett Buck]

It drives a lot like a real car. Hate to break it to anyone, but a Suzuki Cappicino IS really sluggish on the steering and a turd overall. The GT series is not nearly as game so much as it is a simulator. I have had two kissin' cousins of the cars in the, uh, game (GT4), and they drove very much like the real thing. To the point that when I was driving around Infineon, my (simulated) Lotus Turbo HC wanted to get sideways right before the carousel in exactly the same place as my (real life) Lotus Esprit S1