Should MMOG 'Play' Be Confined? 62
Arti writes "Eve Online is famous for hosting the world's first virtual IPO, and also for its Byzantine 'meta game', in which players create fake characters and accounts to infiltrate each other's organisations for intelligence, theft or sabotage. More recently the game has seen the rise of Kugutsumen an intel blog whose creator has been accused of using real-world hacks to obtain secret information from other player forums and private messages. Some players are up in arms at the use of such out-of-game tactics. On the other hand, Kugutsumen claims these techniques have uncovered evidence of corruption. Quite aside from the legal ramifications of attacking other people's web forums, should game companies tolerate forms of 'play' that involve out of game illegality? Should they attempt to monitor and punish these kinds of activity using sanctions in-game, where the company writes the rules? This ties right back in to the discussion of Real Money Transfer we've been having over the past week. Where does the line between 'play' and 'cheating' lie?"
Nothing to see here, move along... (Score:2)
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Ofcourse, if you do break any laws, then, well you are breaking a law, nuff said.
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-Eric
Arent... (Score:1)
Just like looking to solve a specific problem, somebody else has solved it.. Same goes for crime.
If you just thought of it, somebody else has already done it, and went to prison for it.
This story as as pointless as anything else "E". E-Mail, E-Voting, E-Chair.
Developers aren't the police (Score:2)
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Our corporation's greatest enemy (Score:5, Funny)
My Eve Corporation's greatest enemy is a player named "Achomemnon".
Currently he's in the trunk of my car.
What? Its all just part of the game people!
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Yeah, I mean, everyone is doing it. How the hell do you think I got the ISK to buy that Nyx? When some corporations' members start disappearing all of a sudden after a special invite to my lake, word gets around, and they're quite willing to "lend" me anything I could ask for... Great game, this!
Now I just have to "ask" BoB to "lend" me a few 0.0 systems. Gotta hit the hardware store first...brb!
i don't see the dilemma (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it not so simple as just saying that violation of state or federal law is also a violation of the TOS?
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In a lot of countries, if you witness a crime and fail to report it, you can be considered as an accomplice in the crime. So if CCP had evidence of one player commiting a crime against another player (and not necessarily CCP itself, as you said) - they probably should inform the authorities. Dunno what the exact laws are in Iceland though.
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Anyway, the initial question is stupid. It is entirely too broad for something so complicated. It's like asking "if someone kills someone els
Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
...should game companies tolerate forms of 'play' that involve out of game illegality?
Of course they should. The entire point of games is to have fun, not break the law. Games should, IMHO, allow you to do things that you can't do in real life, not reward you for doing them in real life. If someone can't seperate a game from reality they shouldn't be allowed to play it. To put it another way, if you are so involved in a game that you are willing to break the law to gain an advantage then you are not responsible enough to be allowed to play that game.
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Of course they should...
Of couse they shouldn't I mean.
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Besides, its the internets, there is no "law". This is doubbley true of eve.
Impossible (Score:4, Interesting)
An MMO is left with three options: promote this sort of activity because it further "involves" players in the game's happenings (this option is probably best for hardcore MMOs); take a neutral stance on the issue; design the game in such a way that out-of-game spying and intel-sharing is ineffective at changing the course of the game. This last option is the most difficult, of course, but it's the only way I can see of combating spies and saboteurs. Examples might include instanced gameplay elements that are impossible to predict or, in the case of a military game, an emphasis on small battles so that spies could never uncover a single masterstroke battle plan and spoil the fun.
One of the reasons that a warfare MMO/FPS/strategy game would be difficult to implement is because there's no way to secure all forms of communication. The game would not be fun if the enemy knew operational details because of a mole in command. This might very well be realistic, but try explaining that to all the players who just got owned upon launching their attack.
In PlanetSide, players would IM commanders in the opposing Empires and give them a heads up before we launched a huge raid. Even so, we would still have an advantage because it takes several minutes - if not an hour - for the other team to trickle to the battle.
RL as extension to VW / MMORPG (Score:1)
In related news... (Score:3, Informative)
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Some people wouldn't know a joke if it killed them.
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!
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It was supposed to say [imjustkidding]
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:(
finded $50,000.
:(
!
Oh, and his EVE Online account was deleted, too.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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The real solution (Score:1)
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What dumb questions (Score:3, Insightful)
The story may be interesting...but the questions being asked are not the right ones.
You're missing the whole story... (Score:5, Insightful)
The character Kugutsumen is the head of an in-game intelligence-gathering organization that has been doing these types of things for some time now, involving multiple corporations and alliances, usually under contract from their enemies, other times for his own personal gain.
His methods (which include bribing, forum infiltration, TS/Vent spying, etc) have been used in the past by some of the largest alliances, specifically the (arguably) most powerful one in game, named Band of Brothers (BoB), yet no one has made as big a deal out of these events in the past as now, because of one major issue: developer involvement to tip the scales in the favor of specific in-game alliances.
To sum it up, Kugutsumen has posted a number of logs obtained from 'private' BoB forums which point to one or more developers being members of BoB, and providing intel regarding future game event locations, war target information, and most of all, giving Tech2 blueprints to corporations in BoB.
This is a big problem, because normally Tech2 blueprints are used to build 'rare/epic'-type weapons/ships/equipment, and can be highly profitable and provide a distinct advantage not only to those that possess them, but also to those who use said items.
These blueprints are handed out in a lottery fashion, where everyone can have a chance at owning one, but in this case, someone from CCP (the company that created EvE), possibly a developer or GM, has apparently given multiple blueprints to BoB, which is a enourmous slap in the face to the rest of the community which is constantly asking for the Tech2 blueprint distribution system to be balanced.
Some of the other logs also seem to point to high-ranking members of BoB giving access to special areas of their space to Ebay currency sellers in exchange for a cut of the profits, character accounts being traded or sold between members, and other things which are strictly forbidden by EvE's EULA.
This is why there is such a large reaction on the forums. BoB is trying very hard to throw off the focus of the discussion to the methods in which this information was obtained, because their very existence as an alliance is being put in jeopardy by the allegations that CCP's development or GM team members have engaged in actions that benefited them. This is not the first time that CCP staff have abused their status; last summer, a 'rookie' GM spawned a rare ship completely fitted with high-end rare items, which was blown up by 'accident' by a BoB-allied corporation member and some of its items looted. The GM was fired for this, but the story was never completely explained to the general community (CCP reserves the right to control how much information is disclosed about investigations such as these).
So there you have it. The most powerful alliance in EvE is accused of cheating with the help of CCP employees, and now the rest of the player-base wants to know what is going on. Only because Kugutsumen and a number of the SomethingAwful Goons made a number of posts in the EvE-Online forums did this become such a huge issue, forcing CCP to address it publicly (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=to
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The other half of it is that Tech 2 isn't "all that". On average, I'd say tech 2 items are maybe 20% more powerful then Tech 1. It's not an "I Win" level of difference. So flying them isn't a super advant
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I did not post about it but as you have identified one of SOE's problems in EQ was that their "Play Nice" policies were enforced in such a way that they really only applied to those who followed them and became d
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That's one of the reasons I stopped playing the original EQ.
Back in the day, if you wanted to travel long distances, you had 3 or 4 options:
1) Hoof it - Basically you spend time on travel.
2) Pay for a port - Spend plat/gold to reduce the time needed.
3) Befriend a
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____
I no longer play Eve Online but I think some of you may find this interesting. In response to the BoB+Dev drama on the forums: I have been telling people there are high-up Polaris members, probably GMs, and possible Devs in the leadership of BoB for several years.
"Well yeah," you say, "so have tons o
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The potential for abuse is staggering, as are the allegations. But what pisses me off most is that we'll see nothing from CCP about it. There will be no punishment except perhaps a firing or two, and the in-game damage will never be repaired.
Like when RA was farming an exploit in which complex bosses were spawning every 50 seconds instead of every 500 s
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I'd say that a Malediction BPO and a Sabre BPO (in addition to several T2 Ammo BPOs) are anything but mediocre. Also, he had (according to the information obtained by Kugutsumen) at least 8 Tech2 BPOS. You and I both know that the chances of getting 1 BPO are very slim, but one single character presumably played by a dev having 8 of them is a little ridiculous. See it for yourself here:
http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=68 [kugutsumen.com]
It's nice to see you try to downplay it, tho
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A footnote (Score:2)
The accusation now thrown around is of course that the GM created those items with his administrative powers.
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Btw, all the devs play eve. I wonder how many are in LV, D2 or ISS. There were a couple in ascn.
I play Eve-online (Score:4, Interesting)
I've played Eve-online for over a year now, and as stated it is indeed the most brutal, darwinistic multi player game on the net that I know of; utterly unforgiving of mistakes and weakness
In a way, I'm glad the accusations have come to light - firstly, it took repeated forum spamming by 'Goon fleet' (an alliance/guild within the Eve universe) before the Devs within CCP (owners of Eve-online) finally made a statement regarding the issues; I gather the impression that had they had not repeatedly spammed the forums, the current investigation that is being carried out would not have been initiated.
Secondly, there have indeed been several instances as of late where certain players have known of information that could only have come from CCP employees.
The biggest issue at the end of the day is that CCP employees are also allowed to actually play the game itself, and as players are expected to give their loyalty to their corp/alliance, while simultaneously remaining true to CCP's doctrine and not give out any internal information that would aid player alliances/corps.
And that in a nutshell is what started this current uproar. The players are stating that each and every time a CCP employee logs on as a player, he or she has a clear conflict of loyalties, and they are asking for clarification from CCP regarding this.
In my opinion, the vast majority of CCP employees who play the Eve online game are honest and genuine. However, it only takes on single misguided Dev to leak information, and much is ruined, which seems to be the case here.
Having read Kugutsumen's blog, I cannot of course say that it is genuine. I can however say it is believable.
Hopefully in the future CCP Developers will no longer be allowed to maintain positions within PvP alliances, and the clear conflict of interest will be avoided; as to if that will actually happen however, remains to be seen.
Evidence of corruption? (Score:2)
I'm sure almost everyone at CCP plays the game. They have put the same or more hours into their characters than any of the other players. Sure, there are CCP alts in all of the big alliances. If you've been playing Eve for years and years there's really nothing else challenging or interesting besides alliance politi
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In the EVE universe, there's a whole lot of alliance politics, it's as much a part of the game as blowing up spaceships
phhst, you didn't know?? (Score:1)
Blizzard has routinely banned accounts due to "real-money for in-game gold transfers" and many other things. There are articles that put the number in the tens of thousands of accounts banned for activity out of game such as this.
Do I agree with what they do... well I no longer care, I recently freed myself from the game... for a second time, this time is for good I swear, I even uninstalled
I finally realized that MMOs will always
Meh -so what. (Score:1)
Anything in-game goes. If you can find a way to do it in-game, the devs take a pretty blind eye to it. Selling ISK(EVE currency) for real money, hacking computers, and so on are of course, all wrong and illegal, and CCP rigorously tries to stop it as much as they can. But, in-game, if you can scam someone, such is life. There are good factions who hunt down pirates, pirates, and eve
An unbiased summary... (Score:1)
I read the EVE forum thread about the matter. It was very interesting, and what was said takes on dramatically different meanings if you have a particular bias one way or the other on the matter. I'm a once and future EVE player. That is to say, I played EVE, I enjoyed it, and I'll probably play again in the not-too-distant future, but I'm not currently playing, and haven't for several months.
I'm not a member of BoB or Goonfleet, and have never been.