PopCap Distressed Over 'CopyCat' Games 88
GamesIndustry.biz, in an interview with PopCap Games chief creative officer Jason Kapalka, reports that the company is apparently a bit miffed at 'imitation games'. Puzzle games being what they are, Kapalka finds the number of Bejewel-like titles on the market frustrating. "Very few games are developed without reference to past games. There's always going to be titles that build on a previous mechanic or game. But there's a fine line between that and very bold-faced rip-offs that aren't adding anything to the game and are just trying to make a quick buck." Over at 1up, editor Ray Barnholt points out that PopCap is a funny company to be making that claim. Several of that group's most popular games are in turn tweaks or imitations of little-known Japanese puzzle titles from the 90s.
Irony (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Irony (Score:5, Interesting)
(RedOctane got their start making dance pads for Konami's games)
well (Score:4, Insightful)
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Copying (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree, only more so (Score:1, Insightful)
Of course they are angry because they are afraid it means they will be making less money. They want to prevent people from producing products similar to theirs, in order to ensure that they are the only source of the product.
Unfortunately for them, their product is not a substance, but an idea. Ideas don't work like substances. Just looking at a car doesn't
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Hah... we are on SlashDot, aren't we.
Only here can somebody take an issue that doesn't involve intellectual property (a company angry about their ideas being ripped off, which isn't against the law), and use it to damn all intellectual property. . I swear we could have a story on walruses, and someone would twist it into a scathing attack on the RIAA.
Copyright, for example, is pretty easy to understand and distinguish. If you copy my song, my movie
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copying game rules is legal (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright law doesn't extend to the rules of a game, just the artwork, etc. - the "tangibles."
For the disbelievers, here's what the U.S. Copyright oOfice has to say about games [copyright.gov]:
You can make your own version of Bejeweled, right down to the name. You can't copy the logo artwork (they can register the logo) or the game images - you're on your own there. Popcap ought to pop a few 'ludes before they pop a gasket.
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After all the years that it has been discussed on /. you would think that people would understand more about Intellectual Property (IP).
In the United States IP is generally divided into three categories: copyright, trademarks, and patents. In a very broad, and potentially misleading sense, copyright covers creative works (art), trademarks covers a business brand image (name, product names, logo, slogans, etc.), and patents cover the physical implementation of an idea (inventions).
Again, these definitions
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You can't use the trademarks (as I pointed out), but you can certainly make your own version of Monopoly, with your own trademarks. "Monopoly World by RotoDMonkey - better than the original Parker Brothers Monopoly" would pass, as there is zero chance of confusion. Change the artwork, the names and prices of the board squares, and maybe the layout a bit, and you're in business.
The rules and game play can stay absolutely th
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Oh really?
http://www.abstractstrategy.com/game-patents.html [abstractstrategy.com]
or
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/05/ 1226253 [slashdot.org]
Before you argue that these patents are for the physical parts of the game, read some of the patents and you will see that a description of how the parts are used (i.e. rules) is in there as well.
However, you are partly correct. I did some research and there are lots of Monopoly clones out there th
Poor baby (Score:5, Informative)
"Here, Allen has not shown that it is possible to distinguish the
expression of the rules of his game manuals from the idea of
the rules themselves. Thus, the doctrine of merger applies and
although Allen may be entitled to copyright protection for the
physical form of his games, he is not afforded protection for
the premises or ideas underlying those games. To hold other-
wise would give Allen a monopoly on such commonplace
ideas as a simple rule on how youngsters should play their
games."
For what it's worth, Puzzle Quest (a Bejeweled-engine RPG) is absolutely brilliant, and definitely constitutes real innovation. It's a real upgrade, and very clever.
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Puzzle quest (Score:3, Informative)
Early on in the game I was upset that the AI seemed to always get the right drops, but then I got better at predicting the likelyhood of particular drops and that helped a lot. Also if the enemy never gets a turn then they can't beat you. When the board is ready for a massive clear be sure to use stun, web, etc. Then take moves to set up the big c
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It's a nice concept, but it needs some serious tweaking.
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hehe, I love PQ, but I'm a firm believer that the computer is a cheater! *WOOT* 150 HP and the computer only has 4 HP left! (computer goes) dmg buff, 4-combo, 5-combo skulls, 3-combo gold.. but gets a free turn, 5 combo skulls for 50 dmg!, 3-combo skulls fall down, bleh. I'm dead. =(
The thing I hate even more, after getting a combo, I cannot see the board because the "4-combo" words a
That's the way the game industry has always been.. (Score:2)
There were always "clone-makers" who would just make identical copies or make game development kits (pinball was the favourite one) but these were always restricted to what they saw, and would
Re:That's the way the game industry has always bee (Score:1, Interesting)
Exactly. And casual game producers/publishers like Popcap, Big Fish Games, Reflexive, etc. are some of the worst offenders when it comes to copying gameplay. A few years ago it was Bejeweled match-3 clones. Now it's hidden object games like the Mystery Case Files series. Casual gamers are buying them hand over fist, so you can't blame the companies. And small developers can make a (admittedly small) fortune by turning out derivative games that take a few months to develop.
I do enjoy some of the weird
Re:That's the way the game industry has always bee (Score:2)
So what? (Score:3, Interesting)
So what? Microsoft has been making the same sort of statements for the get go (that people are stealing their works yada-yada) while at the same time copying/stealing/buying work from others, to the point that most of their product lines was never developped in-house. People are used to Microsoft, why not from other companies ? The old saying "you shouldn't criticize someone's body odor if you didn't shower yourself" somehow never seems to apply to companies...
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HA! (Score:5, Interesting)
FTFS:
That's hilarious. One of PopCap's best-known games, Dynomite, is a direct ripoff of Taito's Puzzle Bobble, one of the best-known (and -loved) puzzle games of all time. It's not a very good one, either. It's "cheap", in that if the timer runs out while the animation for removing eggs from lines that would save you is playing, you lose (among various similar failings.)
PopCap can stick their whining about ripoffs right up their hypocritical, untalented asses.
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Not to mention, even PopCap's crown (Be)Jewel(ed) directly rips off similar Japanese puzzle games (and even American clones from before PopCap ever existed). Talk about balls, daring to complain about others producing similar games...
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Time Out (Score:5, Informative)
Then I RTFA. The original interview, not the one linked to.
The Popcap rep actually says this: "There are a couple of Bejeweled variants like Jewel Quest that have carved out there own niche but it hasn't caused a huge problem for us."
He then goes on to express a concern about indies copying each other. Not about it impacting PopCap's bottom line, but about the Indie industry as a whole. Specifically, he says this about other developers:
That's all he said. Really.
Re:Time Out (Score:5, Interesting)
In my opinion, it's all in the presentation. A mediocre game with fluid, easy-to-use interface and pretty face interests me a LOT more than an amazingly-clever game with a crappy, ugly interface.
Simon Tatham's Portable Games are a great example of this. Those games are -awesome- ideas. But I would be much more inclined to play them more often if they were prettied up, and the interface made better. (Yes, I -have- considered doing this myself, but I'm not an artist, and not all that great at GUI design either.)
On the other hand, games from PopCap and such that are pretty always draw me in and at least get me to try them. Burger Rush is a good example here. It's -just- a Bejeweled clone with good graphics, and a little side-action. But my Sister has played through it at least 5 times, and my mother at least 7. They still enjoy it.
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Simon Tatham's Portable Games are a great example of this. Those games are -awesome- ideas. But I would be much more inclined to play them more often if they were prettied up, and the interface made better. (Yes, I -have- considered doing this myself, but I'm not an artist, and not all that great at GUI design either.)
Not that Mr. Tatham invented most (or any?) of the puzzles himself--in fact, he credits his source where possible. However, I don't see what's wrong with the interface for his games--is it just that they aren't pretty enough? The presentation is very minimalist to be sure, but they're very responsive and convey all the information you need clearly.
By the way, have you looked at how those games are implemented? There's a fairly clean separation between the puzzle logic and the display that would make imp
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The issue is that I am not artistically inclined -at all- and my User Interface skills are pretty lackluster. I seriously doubt I could improve on them much.
I do remember on a few of them thinki
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That covers the interaction part of the interface, but you are correct that I feel they 'aren't pretty enough.' By far.
That's fair enough, and I can't argue the point. They're very good for what they are (fun, minimalist reasoning puzzles) but they don't and probably were never intended to have mass-market appeal. And no, I don't have the graphics skills to do it either (otherwise I would).
However I have been tempted to make a Flash or Javascript reimplementation... wouldn't be able to use his backends that way, unfortunately, but I'd love to be able to play those truly anywhere, even when I can't download his (such as
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That's all he said. Really.
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By, once again, telling people not to do what he did, as leader of a successful company, and giving no reason why?
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Does that really seem like good advice?
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*THWACK* WAKE UP!
No wonder you're confused. He's not saying that in the slightest. Did you read the interview? The actual interview, not the one filtered through Slashdot and the media?
The truth is that very few games are developed without reference to past games. There's always going to be titles that build on a previous mechanic or game. But there's a fine line between that and very bold-faced rip-offs that aren't adding anything to the game and are just trying to make a quick buck.
They think they can do a quick knock-off to help pay the bills and then they can work on their big magnum opus but that rarely happens. [...] The casual space should be encouraging a huge amount of creative design but there's a lot of imitation and that's a shame.
In case that isn't percolating, he's saying that you're not going to get rich off of a quick Tetris clone. You might, however, get rich off of a new twist on Tetris that shows high production values and original thinking.
Which makes perfect sense when you think about it. How many times h
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That makes sense. But he's not actually saying that. Maybe he means it, and is just bad at expressing himself, but he still is not saying that. You're adding a whole lot of interpretation there that just isn't in that statement.
This line especially almost directly contradicts that: "The cas
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1. Popcap has experience with making clones, so they feel like they are in a good position to comment on it.
2. Copying game mechanics is pretty normal for the industry. But if you're going to do it, do it right. Add your own flare, make it interesting, and above all try to differentiate yourself.
Sage wisdom... (Score:3, Funny)
- What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
- That's the pot calling the kettle black.
- What comes around goes around.
- You reap what you sow.
- A stitch in time, saves nine.
- Whoever smelt it, dealt it.
- Whoever made the rhyme, did the crime.
-
- Profit!!!
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Software Patents (Score:2)
I'm surprised that PopCap hasn't gone for securing some kind of software patent on their puzzle games. Granted, the patent may not be particularly valid, given that there's very little new content in the puzzle gaming world, however, the existence of the patent would certainly be enough to scare off other small developers.
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Sounds like Loco Motion for the Intellivision, from 1983...
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Clones Galore (Score:1)
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Psygnosis and the Lemmings clone case (Score:2)
This is something I don't understand - no more lemmings games have been produced - why does the company want to take off a game that doesn't take any sales away from them?
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This is something I don't understand - no more lemmings games have been produced - why does the company want to take off a game that doesn't take any sales away from them?
I don't know how long ago the incident you're referring to occurred, but a Lemmings game was released in May 2006 [gamespot.com] for the PSP (and then released on the PS3 in December 2006).
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"Copycat Lemmings" as it was called I think was a direct rip-off, it even copied a few of the graphics from what I know. So it wasn't just a Lemmings clone, it was copyright violation, trademark violation and all that stuff.
### no more lemmings games have been produced
There has been a very steady stream of Lemmings games over the years (Lemmings2, Lemmings3, 3D Lemmings, Lemmings Paintball, Lomax, LemmingsRevolution) and just recent
this attitude reminds me of disney. (Score:1)
Pot, Kettle, Black (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, patent them! (Score:2)
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Damn it. (Score:2, Interesting)
I own a couple of your games and can honestly state they do not seem very original. For instance, I have seen a multitude of games similar to Bejeweled for years. Take a look in family arcades and bar-top arcade systems, jewel + puzzle games of this style have been around for about 15 years longer than Pop-cap has been in business.
It is very tempting to go through my MAME screenshot repository and find games PopCap did that look like older arcade titles, then begin sending email to each of these
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You've paid us for some of these games that you say show no originality. Our goal with regards to your input into our business model has been met. From this point on, unless you want to give us more money to actually exceed our goals, we really couldn't give a a fuck what you have to say.
Regards,
PopCap
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Imitation (Score:2, Insightful)
Indie Gamer forum discussion (Score:2)
Indie and casual game designers are discussing the Popcap interview at great length at the Indie Gamer forums [indiegamer.com]. As I remarked there, many people have observed that the current syndrome of blatant, rampant plagiarism is dangerous to the casual game market's long-term health -- and whenever someone does observe this, the plagiarizers move immediately to smear that speaker's reputation. By demonstrating the speaker isn't a pure and saintly exemplar of all things holy, the plagiarizers believe they prove their a
i'll care (Score:2)
I can go to the local store's bargain bin and get year old games for 20 bucks.. this is a 5 MB download..
That has to be a joke (Score:2)
Keep in mind that Zuma is a copy of Puzz Loop, Bejeweled is a copy of xjewel, etc.
That's either priceless, funny or just really sad.
Huh? What are Popcap's "Original Contributions"?? (Score:2)
But Popcap? They make puzzle games that are derivatives of Tetris, and their games are better suited for widgets and free downloads than they are as stand alone titles.
For Popcap to whine about "copycats" would be like Bethesda complaining about all the other swords and sorcery RPG's out there.