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Games Entertainment

ESRB President Vance On UT3's User-Generated Content 56

Posted by Zonk from the gameplay-may-change-with-online-play dept.
Ars Technica's Opposable Thumbs blog passes on the comments of ESRB President Patricia Vance on user-generated content in Unreal Tournament III . As you may recall, it was announced at E3 that user mods will be available for the PS3 version of the game, and eventually the 360 as well. Vance clarified the situation from the ESRB's viewpoint: "The ESRB's Online Rating Notice, which warns consumers that 'Game Experience May Change During Online Play,' is intended to advise the buyer that, because the game enables users to play with others over an internet connection, they might encounter user-generated content that isn't a part of the ESRB rating ... That content can vary, whether it's chat or skins or maps or what have you, and it's certainly possible that some of that content won't be in line with the rating that we assigned to the product. That's why we created the notice in the first place."
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ESRB President Vance On UT3's User-Generated Content More

ESRB President Vance On UT3's User-Generated Content

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  • Does not compute (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Red Flayer ( 890720 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2007 @04:20PM (#19974775) Journal

    ...the comments of ESRB President Patricia Vance on user-generated content in Unreal Tournament III...
    (snip)
    That content can vary, whether it's chat or skins or maps or what have you
    Sounds very suspicious to me. I mean, this is a bureacrat who seems to have some understanding of what they are supposed to be administrating.

    Is it me, or is this ESRB bureacracy now broken?

    • Compute? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Mark_MF-WN ( 678030 )
      Given that the ESRB is a completely voluntary non-governmental organization created by game companies, I'm not really sure what you mean.

      How exactly are they broken, in your estimation?

      • Yah see, he's sayin' it's a bureaucracy that is competent, so it's broken like it is goin' against the definition of what it is.

        Ah say, that's a joke, son.
        • Probably my own fault for not having a hatred and irrational distrust of bureaucracies. The assumption that bureaucrats are inherently stupid and incompetent isn't a universal one, or even an obvious one... at least to people who've dealt with reasonable bureaucrats.
          • Does that mean we'll have to explain the joke to all six of you?
          • See what I mean about hatred and irrational distrust?

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by dintech ( 998802 )
            To me, my friends and colleagues bureaucracy has negative connotations. Based on this I would assume most people understand bureaucracy to be an administrative system in which the need or inclination to follow rigid or complex procedures impedes effective action.

            You're the first person I've heard of to suggest this is a good thing. Or am I missing something?
          • It's not your fault for not having a distrust of authorities...
            It's your parents fault.
            Either nurture (hippy biker beatnik parents yeay) or nature (pathological distrust of authorities is on MY psych report) it's your parents fault for not instilling you with any logical suspicion or doubt.
            Watchfulness and wariness of being shortchanged ARE natural and universal traits among social mammals, if you don't know that then you've never seen two dogs eat.
            I want to know the name of whatever you're taking becau
            • Don't worry, I distrust authorities. But I distrust REAL authorities with REAL power -- like religions, the government, etc. I don't distrust the ESRB, because they have no power over me, and aren't asking me to trust them in the first place, or even to give them any money. All they do is put little letters on boxes for me to ignore.

              You seem to be confused about what bureaucracy is -- in particular, you've got it mixed up with government. Bureaucracy is simply administration by bureaus -- it's how eve

          • Two of the definitions [reference.com] on dictionary dot com mention not just the bureaus, but the excessiveness of them that is the common use of the term. If you've ever played this game [infocom-if.org], I think you would agree.
            • As I said, the latter pair of definitions stem from peoples impressions of bureaucracies. You probably deal with a dozen or more bureaucracies every day, without ever having a problem. They're like the arteries in your brain -- you only become aware of them when something goes hideously wrong with their functioning, or when you want to interact with them in a way that's outside of their normal function.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by jgoemat ( 565882 )

                You probably deal with a dozen or more bureaucracies every day, without ever having a problem.

                If I go down to the DMV to get my driver's license renewed, I am going to the bureau that handles license registration. Whether it is a bureaucracy or not has to be decided. Bureaucracy is when something like this becomes so large that people lose sight of the intended purpose in creating it, leading to all the red tape and routine you have to go through to get anything done.

                • The power to decide who does and does not get a driver's license is held by a bureau -- right? So it's a bureaucracy -- rule by bureaus. You've lost sight of the actual meaning of the word. Bureaucracy is when administration is handled by bureaus.

                  If you got to the DMV without having any problems or excessive paperwork and whatnot, the experience wont linger in your mind. You wont be left with recurring nightmares of forms and small-minded clerks with rubber stamps. You wont have any impression of the

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by jgoemat ( 565882 )

                    But bureaucracy is not an individual bureau. You said I probably deal with 12 bureaucracies a day. You are talking about the meaning of one definition, which would by definition mean that the entire government is a bureaucracy. Other definitions:

                    3. excessive multiplication of, and concentration of power in, administrative bureaus or administrators.

                    Excessive concentration in power of the administrators, causing...

                    4. administration characterized by excessive red tape and routine.

                    excessive red tape

                    • You're still making the mistake of thinking that bureaucracy and government are synonyms. First off, you don't have just one government. You probably have at least three, each with its own bureaucracy. And of course, different branches of a government can have their own bureaucracies. Every corporation has a bureaucracy. Most sizable non-profit organizations do as well.

                      Bureaucracy is just an inevitable aspect of how Humans organize themselves when more than a hundred or so people have to cooperate.

    • If this is the case, per ESRB policy, then why did GTA get spanked with a post-production AO for the Hot Coffee mod?

      Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Lehk228 ( 705449 )
        the content was on the disc, a patch made it accessible to everyone but it was there before
      • IIRC, Hot Coffee was partially unused code from the disc that R* disabled to avoid the AO rating. A clever hacker re-enabled it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by enjerth ( 892959 )

        why did GTA get spanked with a post-production AO for the Hot Coffee mod?
        Because the content was not user-generated. The content, while not directly accessible, was a part of the product.

        • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2007 @04:37PM (#19975043)
          Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

            by Applekid ( 993327 )
            So, the solution for Manhunt 2 is clearly:

            1. Remake Pac-Man
            2. Get ESRB rating of E with a warning of User Generated Content
            3. Upon boot, download content from user "NotRockstar", a whole 4 or 5 bytes adding a jmp to the code
            4. Execute that code = Manhunt 2
            5. ???
            6. Profit!
          • To some extent, I agree with what you are saying. People couldn't access the "Hot Coffee" materials unless they downloaded online content (or modified the code themselves, if they played on a computer). But at the same time, the content WAS on the disc, it WAS part of the program and that does technically make it content included with the game. As a side note, this article is pointless; this is nothing new and I'm mystified as to why Slashdot put it up as a story.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
        It had no "game experience may change during online play" warning.

    • Re:Does not compute (Score:4, Interesting)

      by enjerth ( 892959 ) on Tuesday July 24, 2007 @04:25PM (#19974845)
      Why is this a story? I've seen that message on dozens of games on the computer. So it's a big deal because it's on a console now?
      • It's not anything new to consoles either.

        I'm trying to figure out what the point of this story is and how the hell it got posted to /.?

        Swi

        • It's not anything new to consoles either.
          It must be new to The Zonk.

          I'm trying to figure out what the point of this story is and how the hell it got posted to /.?
          *waves hand* This is not the story you are looking for.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by brkello ( 642429 )
        Why is this a story? I've seen that message on dozens of games on the computer. So it's a big deal because it's on a console now?

        Yes. It's just like Halo. (kidding, kidding)
  • I hope they at least screen the user generated content for online play. I don't want to play against a stick and testicles. I mean, where do you headshot that thing anyway? But seriously, I don't want all the crap that's gone through second life coming through UT.

    • I don't want to play against a stick and testicles. I mean, where do you headshot that thing anyway?
      Um... in the head?
    • Uhm, stick and testicles, you say? Uh, er (*fidgets uncomfortably*):

      8==D/blockquote

      Shoot the "D".
    • I suspect that they'll have the option to turn off custom models, just to save bandwidth if not everything else that goes with them.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Raconteur ( 1132577 )
      This is a non-issue. User-created content cannot and should not be regulated by any agency other than server admins.

      • I fully agree. I was scrolling through to see if anyone had said as much before I posted, and I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm amazed this made /., and I'm amazed (or perhaps saddened) that the ESRB felt obligated to justify this. When you go to the movies and see a PG movie, you can't yell at the MPAA if someone sitting behind you in the theatre drops the F-bomb 10 or 20 times while watching it.

        Perhaps slightly more accurately, if you pick up a children's book in which someone has drawn obscene pi

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
      If it's anything like the PC games that support user-created playermodels (which includes all previous UTs, by the way) it will just display the default model if you didn't download the custom one.
  • I was always under the impression that that disclaimer meant "Slowness, Choppiness and/or lag may be present during online game play". Not that there's user generated material within the game. If what they say "chat or skins or maps or what have you" is supposed to be meant with their disclaimer, they may want to modify the verbiage a little bit (e.g."Game Content May Change During Online Play").

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Aladrin ( 926209 )
      It's the experience they are rating, not just the content. That includes plot, language, visuals, narration, etc. The ESRB doesn't give a fsck about how much lag you experience. That doesn't affect their rating at all. 12 year olds drawing penises on Madden's jersey and cursing like sailors would, if they were rating the online experience.
    • That's an excellent reason why the phrase should be clarified. If you had a problem understanding it, then chances are that a large portion of the audience is also not getting it. "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" While I've always understood what they mean, I've always felt it was written in such a way as to intentionally confuse. It's as if they're trying to be a bit coy about it. "Yep, this game is perfectly fine for kids. Except....well, I don't want to startle you or anything, but..
  • I always thought that sentence was an advertisement! Like, "play online, it will CHANGE your EXPERIENCE". What I thought was boring advertisementese was just boring legalese... my bad!

  • This is news? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by band-aid-brand ( 1068196 )
    User generated content is a huge part of the gaming market on PC's, and now that a console may get a piece of the action people start freaking out. Shows that people really aren't too concerned about PC imo, or they know the truth: we PC gamers are mature enough to handle it. I just hope they don't damage the customization of unreal tournament that gave it such a long lifespan in the past. Damn console's screw it up for everyone.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      we PC gamers are mature enough to handle it

      Generalizations are never helpful. Probably most gamers are mature enough to handle it, but some may not be. Parents are responsible for underage gamers and there is no doubt that ratings are useful.

      Parents probably wouldn't let their kits play Unreal Tournament but I wonder what the situation would be for something like LittleBigPlanet. That game would probably get rated an E for everyone but it relies totally on user content. Most is going to be great but you

    • I think plenty of kids get PCs from Mom and Dad as often as they get $400-600 game consoles, possibly more often. Or at least they have access to a PC more often. Maybe it is still a matter of PC versus console when you look at the maturity level; maybe age has less to do with it. The only time companies start getting sued, though, is when a 12-year-old finds something (sexual, racist, whatever) in a game that 12-year-olds shouldn't even be playing. (Sometimes I wish ESRB would just adopt the MPAA ratin
  • Microsoft have already said no. There is an interview on Gametraliers, and the Microsoft dude says XBL is a closed platform.

    Can I ask where the author of this article got the impression there would be? (assumption???)
  • to release Manhunt 2 as a mod for UT3...?

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