Retail Ads Hint At $50 360 Price Cut

Following closely on the heels of Sony's $100 cut in price for the PlayStation 3, retail ads seem to indicate an upcoming $50 price drop for the Xbox 360. Gamespot investigates the rumour: "It's clear that a number of retailers are expecting an Xbox 360 price cut next week, so much so that they're willing to buy print advertising for it. If that's the case, Microsoft almost certainly told them to expect a price cut, and when it would be fine to start promoting it. When Microsoft actually decides to announce it remains to be seen, although sources close to the software giant are grousing through back channels that the discounting's cover has already been blown." This comes right on time for the annual release of Madden, Bioshock, and Blue Dragon.

How about you fix the problems instead?

[Dr Kool, PhD]

I'd pay $50 more if it meant I didn't have to send my console back for repair every four months. The RRoD rate for 360s is ridiculous.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd pay $50 more if it meant I didn't have to send my console back for repair every four months. The RRoD rate for 360s is ridiculous.

They've had eyes on a subscription model for software for some time, perhaps this is their entry into doing it for hardware

Re:

[MBraynard]

The revisions you are likely to find on the shelf will not have this problem.

Re:How about you fix the problems instead?

[Kazzahdrane]

I work in games retail. Xbox 360s have some hardware problems which result in the RRoD. This used to be a daily occurrence where I work (people returning faulty units) but now it's much less regular (still a few a week, less than 4 usually). Obviously, this is still a bit crap. However, the clip-on nature of the 360 harddrive means we can give customers a new console and have them playing again without losing any data in less time than it takes to serve a grandmother who wants to know about that "double-u aye aye thing". The thing about the RRoD is that while it's a (diminishing, IMO) problem, it's pretty much the only real thing MS haters can complain about with the Xbox 360. It's not a piece of garbage - it's a powerful console with a shit load of games, and a bunch of pretty spectacular-looking ones out between now and Xmas. The PS3 seems to be a very robust machine, I guess MS rushed a bit too much to be first out of the gate.

Re:

[Kazzahdrane]

35% failure rate is total bull. Where that number originally came from I have no idea but I've seen it thrown around online over the last couple of months. If I had to guess, I'd say it's closer to 7 or 8% (still dreadful for a consumer electronics product). I suggest you do some research into the history of the console market, you clearly don't remember anything before the Xbox. Not on the same scale but the early PS2s were pretty rickety, my flatmate had 5 in the first 2 years of the console. Dodgy disc

Re:

[grumbel]

### 35% failure rate is total bull.

That number comes right from Microsoft. They never said that number directly, but they did say that they are going to spend one billion to handle the defects, given that 10 million XBox360 are released into the wild, just do the math and you will see that the failure rate is between 25%-70%, the lowest end is when a repair cost as much as a brand new XBox360, $400, the high end assume that it cost them $140 to repair one, the price they charged for out-of-warranty repairs.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the 10 billion is supposed to be the total cost of the warranty extension, so they're also counting the expected cost of replacements for 360s yet to be sold plus things like customer service and shipping. Anecdotal data about 30% failure rates could be attributable to things like bad batches or statistical fluctuations (i.e. if the real failure rate were 10% the chance of a store experiencing a 30% failure rate would be non-negligible).

I'm a Wii fanboy and I want to see the 360 and PS3 fail, but le

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[pokerdad]

You must live in fantasy land where shipping a console both ways and paying someone by the hour to fix something, all of this at the cost of Microsoft, doesn't cost a thing.

I don't have any knowledge of this situation, but I think I can be pretty sure if the costs you mentioned exceded what it costs Microsoft to build an XBox, they wouldn't repair a single unit; failures would just result in replacements.

Re:

[PhoenixOne]

I thought it was bull too until I turned my unit on last month and saw the three lights. Now I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was true.

Re:

[nullChris]

I had the RRoD. I immediately researched, and tried a few options. What worked for me: Clearing cache, and deleting a corrupted save game. How these items became corrupted, I don't know (heat or surge causing computation errors? Bug in code?), but research and action combined took me about 20 minutes. No problems since for my January 2006 console.

All this said, I don't doubt there are some bigger hardware errors out there, but I'd be willing to bet mostpeople see the red ring, and consider it done wit

Re:

[PhoenixOne]

My RRoD doesn't allow me to do anything. So, unless there is some key-combo or hidden switch on the XBox360 I don't know about, I'm not sure how I can clean the cache (and my save files are on the harddrive which I removed).

Fun side note: when I took it to the UPS store they knew exactly what it was. They said they get, on average, 5 a day! And they are not the biggest UPS store front in my area.

Maybe 1 in 3 is low...

Re:

[nullChris]

Whoops, forgot some important info. I was able to get the console up and running again by yanking the peripherals (GH2 controller, vision camera), and removing the hard drive. Once it came back up, I tried again with just the hard drive, and proceeded from there. Perhaps some of its drivers also became corrupt.

Re:

[PhoenixOne]

Oh. You may have solved the issue or it may just be random. I got a couple of RRoD that went away if I just powered off then on again. Or your RRoD could be power-related (make sure the power-brick is getting enough air-flow).

Good luck and, remember, you have 2 more years to turn it in if it stops working. If you can hold out a few months, you might get it back sooner (since they are getting swamped with them right now).

Re:

[LKM]

Microsoft put away enough money to fix 100% of all sold 360s. I have no idea what the failure rate is, but Microsoft clearly expects it to be higher than 7% or 8%.

Re:

[twistedsymphony]

35% failure rate is total bull.

I'm fairly certain that number is exaggerated from the Daily Tech article [dailytech.com] that was pretty much the straw that broke the camels back before MS admitted the problem.

They got data from nearly every major retailer about return rates and saw that most stores were getting 1/4 to 1/3 (25%-33%) returned. Some of the stores supplied more concrete numbers than others but it was the first article to actually put a real number behind the failure rates beyond speculation from executive

Re:

[Kazzahdrane]

The only thing I can think of is that the problem is more widespread in the USA. It's a well-known problem here, but my personal experience is much lower than even 1/5th of the stock we sell.

Re:

[Raenex]

I wonder how many people just call Microsoft directly without returning it to the retail store?

Re:

[Kazzahdrane]

In the EU? Probably less than 1%. Here you get a 1 year warranty from the seller on almost all "hardware" (TVs, washing machines, consoles, lawnmowers) and people know that. In fact, IIRC in mainland Europe it's 2 years - here in the UK we haven't caught up yet.

Re:

[canUbeleiveIT]

Damn dude, I forgot about you.

Do you remember this discussion thread [slashdot.org]? I'm canUbeleiveIT. I meant to answer but a lot of crap has happened in the past two weeks and and now the discussion is closed. If you want to chat, my email is brian.alarcan (omit this part and use the at) gmail.com. I will do my best to answer any questions that I can without the usual Christian evangelizing B.S.

Re:

[Walpurgiss]

I don't have a 360, and modded my xbox the day I got it just to play nes/snes/genesis/atari games on it; but I went through 3 PS2s before the slim ones came out due to the laser. First one stopped reading discs and gave me errors, 2nd one couldn't read any of the blue discs (Like Virtua Fighter 4). Third one also developed disc read errors. Slim one so far has worked fine; though I only play GH on it with the rest just stuck in the ps3. But anyway; point is, not only Xbox360 proponents had problems with

Re:

[Kazzahdrane]

You slipped up, troll. You almost seemed like a MS hater who just felt strongly about it until you denied the PS2 failures. You know nothing about consoles. Although it's supposedly impossible to win arguments on the Internet, I just did. *smug mode*

Re:

[Osty]

Took them long enough.

I would argue that they're doing it too soon. As of right now, there's absolutely no economic benefit to dropping the price. The PS3 (even with its pseudo-"price cut") is dead in the water as far as competition goes, and unless they can drop $200 the 360 will not be able to compete with the Wii on price. The holiday line-up is going to be killer (GTA4, Halo 3, Mass Effect, etc) and will entice enough people to buy without also dropping the price. As far as I know, the 65nm manufac

Re:

[MBraynard]

You realize that it is in their interest to sell them at as low a price as they can as the attach rate + XBL transactions are where they will make their money. There are some sensitive curves involved here and MS has the market research; we do not.

Re:

[KDR_11k]

In Europe the 360 Premium was 300€ for a few weeks around the PS3 launch. Of course that meant you didn't get the extra controller and two games that most stores give you for free with one but since those games are usually launch games that are probably dirt cheap in the barghain bins and not everyone wants those games anyway that might still be a deal.

Xbox Profitable in 2XXX

[king-manic]

Exactly when Duke nukem forever is released.

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

Xbox Profitable in 2XXX

Bow-chicka-bow-wow!

Re:

[Rethcir]

Isn't that when Megaman 2 takes place?

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

My comment is a gag from the Halo-inspired show "Red v. Blue [roosterteeth.com]". I thought it was appropriate for the subject matter. :P

Was I the only one...

[Brian Gordon]

Who thought "$50,360 price cut? I didn't think it was that expensive"?

XDK 360?

[tepples]

Who do they think they are selling something that expensive?

How much does it cost to become an authorized developer of commercial Xbox 360 games? The devkit alone probably doesn't cost 50 kUSD, but the required business overhead to qualify for an official console devkit (forming an S-corp or LLC, leasing office space, etc) is expensive even if you have already developed titles for Windows DirectX.

The part the summary misses....

[ivan256]

Two separate stores, so it looks legit, but the price drop is only on the Premium, not the Elite.

Re:The part the summary misses....

[I'll Provide The War]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17603 0 [neogaf.com]

The Core gets a $20 cut and the Elite is reduced by $30.

Re:

[powerlord]

Okay, you've covered the Premium and Elite. What about the Core, "Halo 3 Edition" and the "Simpsons Movie Edition"?

Almost as complex as a product matrix as Vista. Is it any wonder the Wii is selling more?

Heck, even the PlayStation only has two models (at most), for sale at any one time, and the only difference between them now is native hard-drive space.

Re:

[LoverOfJoy]

Don't forget the playstation 2 is still for sale (and doing quite well).

Re:

[Applekid]

Not sure about those special editions, but the Core is set to get a $20 price cut.

Re:

[Osty]

Okay, you've covered the Premium and Elite. What about the Core, "Halo 3 Edition" and the "Simpsons Movie Edition"?

What about them? Nobody buys a Core except to replace a broken Premium where they already have the hard drive, wireless controller, component video cable, etc. The Halo 3 edition is not out yet, and the Simpsons Movie edition is not available for purchase in stores. That leaves us with the Premium and the Elite. The choice between the two is pretty simple -- if you don't know or care why t

Works?

[SuperKendall]

Wouldn't the "works" technically be the elite instead of the premium?

Not that I mean to criticize the purchase, the wording just struck me as odd. I know there's not much difference between the two models so I guess technically they are close...

Re:

[Applekid]

$50 represents a 2nd game for you. Return that console and pick up a reduced one in a week: they don't announce price drops until very close to when it happens. Unless your time in waiting in line to return it is worth more than $50, of course.

I can't believe...

[suv4x4]

So it'll drop from $400 to 350? I can't believe they aren't taking the opportunity to sell it for $360.

"XBox 360 - for $360"

niiiiiiceee....

Re:

[GrayCalx]

niiiiiiceee....

God help me I laughed out loud at that. Bravo sir... bravo.

Re:

[GrayCalx]

Heh, no clue. It just felt like his tone came through his post and I laughed, so I figured I'd give him some feedback.

RRoD is sporatic at worst

[Pojut]

I know I know I know, "The 360 self destructs! The numbers don't lie!"

True, but I think people exaggerate them a bit...I myself own 4 different 360's, and know of no less than 30 people that own at least one...out of everyone I know that has had one, only two people have gotten the ring (one of which is me)

My one RRoD came after I cracked the case open on one of them to clean out the dust...unbeknown to me at the time, I had accidently loosened two of the CPU heatsink screws a half-turn, and within 2 hours I had the rings...the other 3 that I own have never had an issue. THe only friend I know that has had an RRoD had one on a launch unit.

I'm not saying it's not a real problem. I'm saying people have exaggerated it a bit. (yes, I am aware that my 30 friends hardly constitute the entirety of the market, but those friends know people and those people know people and so on)

Basically, what I am getting at is don't balk at buying a 360 simply because of all the red ring talk...I own all three next gen systems and my 360 by FAR gets the most play time out of the three (not to mention IMO the 360 has the largest lineup of exciting games on the horizon)

Re:

[king-manic]

I think it's related to how defective units bunch up. It might be the 360's are less resistant to jostling due to how it was designed and it's heating issues. So a little violence on the way to the store and you have a eventually defective unit. Since they bunch up it may be that some groups are exposed to it more then others. So while in my social group we're 5/5 for defective 360's you may only be 2/30.

In either case the exact failrue rate is undisclosed but speculated to be high.

Re:

[ThosLives]

2 failures in 30 opportunities is a tragically bad failure rate. Even one failure in 30 is tragically bad. 1 failure in 30 is no better than a failure rate of 1 in 10 to a 95% confidence (if actual defect rate is 1 in 10, odds of 1 failure in 30 chances is 95%). If the actual defect rate is one in 100, the odds of one failure in 30 chances is only 26%.

So, even though you think 1 in 30 is "good", it's horrendously bad. What you want is a real defect rate of around 1 per 10,000 or so, which would only have

Re:

[Pojut]

Not saying it isn't bad, I'm saying it's sporatic... I have seen people on here claim that every person they know with a 360 has had to return it at least once, and then there are others (such as myself) that barely know anyone with any issues. Hence the phrase "sporatic".

Ironically, those that tend to have issues themselves tend to have friends that also have issues with the 360...as others have mentioned, this is likely due to "bad batches"

Re:

[king-manic]

Not saying it isn't bad, I'm saying it's sporatic... I have seen people on here claim that every person they know with a 360 has had to return it at least once, and then there are others (such as myself) that barely know anyone with any issues. Hence the phrase "sporatic".

Ironically, those that tend to have issues themselves tend to have friends that also have issues with the 360...as others have mentioned, this is likely due to "bad batches"

The PS2 was said to have a bad fail rate but the only one I saw "f

Re:

[whodunnit]

Well, I must just have really crappy luck then.

I keep my 360's isolated on their own table, power brick on the cool tile floor. And yet I'm on my 4th one. First 2 died from RRoD (day of purchace, and then 8 months later), Third one died of a dead DVD drive.

I play a lot of games, and watched a lot of DvD's on the last one. But in any case, a $400 piece of hardware should not fail this often.

OH, and BTW each of my consoles that died were returned to BB for a brand new one, so I'm not talking about refurbish

Re:

[Pojut]

4 of them...two are modified, two are not. one modified and one "vanilla" console are at my place, and the other modified/vanilla mix are at the ladyfiend's place.

Re:

[SuiteSisterMary]

Back before the spring update that allowed the unit to download in a low power state, there were two separate instances where I'd queue up a big demo, turn off the TV and receiver, and leave; only to find when I got home, that my wife, while cleaning up, had closed the doors to the entertainment center, leaving the 360 running, on full tilt, in a fully enclosed space about, oh, maybe two to three times the size of the 360 itself, with naught but a three-inch-diameter cable hole in the back for ventilation.

Re:

[Pojut]

What you described is the exact reason I sprung for the 50 dollar replacement plan on all of mine.

I've only had to use it on one of my 360's, but in the event that one of them did die I figured it better to get a brand new in box system rather than ship it out...that is worth 50 extra dollars to me.

I do agree with what you are saying though, insofar as the replacement refurb units are concerned.

Re:

[GregPK]

If it weren't for a non disclosure agreement I could show you an excel file that shows every single console in the retail stores replaced at least once since launch. Some stores have had it replace 5 times or more.

Granted though, its retail, more dust, more problems. Though the number one problem is still the same as the first generation. Dirty disc reader.

Re:

[Pojut]

Apparently, I'm pathetic enough to garner the attention of the slashtrolls.

I take it I should just go /wrists then?

Re:

[Xtravar]

30 in base 2

zing!!!

Re:

[MeanderingMind]

How fucking pathetic do you have to be to sit around on Slashdot typing out damage control for the worst console hardware ever designed that has already had enough cash, 1.1 billion, set aside from the manufacturer themselves to fix ever single 360 ever manufactured?

About as pathetic as one has to be to sit around on slashdot replying to such comments.

At least he's not AC.

Re:

[Pojut]

::sigh:: the shills are out in force today...when are you fuckers gonna start posting under an actual username? Just for kicks (and because I have one more hour at work and I'm bored out of my mind):

* Weeks to months of sitting around waiting for your 360 to be returned from Microsoft for its latest RRoD repair!

::shrug:: only had one of mine die on me, and I had the replacement deal from gamestop

* Forking out 50 dollars every year just to be allowed to play games online!

In my mind, the service that Live

Re:

[Pojut]

How do you figure? Because I was rebutting a system that I love?
Had you used the Wii or the PS3 in the same shill-like fasion, I would have defended both of those equally as well.

I'm a gamer. I enjoy any system that lets me play games. Being "brand loyal" as a gamer is completely stupid and pointless...You miss out on all kinds of games if you limit yourself to one brand.

It's especially depressing when you see people get payed to drill one console while applauding another. If consoles could shit, it wou

Re:

[Pojut]

and by "rebutting a system I love" i meant "rebutting what you said about a system I love"

Must be all that toner dust floating around in my office...

Re:

[desenz]

I'm not a 360 owner, but doesn't it seem like theres a flaw in saying that its okay your 360 broke, because you had a replacement plan? A defect is still a defect, I think.

Re:

[Pojut]

In this instance, it broke due to my own stupidity (not tightening the heatsink back down again) Still, defects are to be expected...happens with everything. I'm not saying that they should be happening on a mass scale, but in my own personal experience with the 360, I haven't had any issues and as such I don't care. Good example is sushi. I love sushi. I have also never gotten sick from eating sushi. I would imagine people that get sick from it the first time just plain don't like it. At this point,

Re:

[nuzak]

> I would love to respond to more of these

Honestly, why even bother? These aren't people out to be convinced, and the screaming matches just dumbs down the forum even more.

Re:

[Pojut]

I enjoy defending any gaming system because they all can be defended...like I said, they all have their positives and negatives. As a person whose life centers around gaming, it is disturbing to even consider someone would be a brand whore as a gamer (well, I mean it does in general, but ESPECIALLY with gaming, a culture that needs as much cohesion as possible)

More than any other reason though, it's because I'm bored at work and it amuses me:-)

Re:ps3 did not have a $100 price drop

[ivan256]

Nobody with more than half a brain thinks the price of the PS3 is going to go back up to $599. Pretty much everybody accepts that they will start selling it for $499 but without the freebies after the 60GB models are sold out. (Which is almost everywhere now, though I personally have yet to see an 80GB model for sale in the US)

Re:

[trdrstv]

Nobody with more than half a brain thinks the price of the PS3 is going to go back up to $599. Pretty much everybody accepts that they will start selling it for $499 but without the freebies after the 60GB models are sold out. (Which is almost everywhere now, though I personally have yet to see an 80GB model for sale in the US)

Nobody with half a brain? This IS Sony we're talking about...

PS: The 80 gig version was announced for an August release.

Re:

[ivan256]

/me hands you some reading glasses...

It says "more than half a brain". People with only half a brain are expected to think whatever nonsense they'd like.

Re:

[trdrstv]

/me hands you some reading glasses... It says "more than half a brain".

Thanks for the glasses. I'm getting old I guess....

People with only half a brain are expected to think whatever nonsense they'd like.

Stuff like "We will be the market leader by selling a $600 console?" for example?

Re:

[7Prime]

I completely dissagree, as do most people around here. It's completely unecconomical for them to sell the 80GB version at $500. I saw this comming even before they announced the drop. It's basically a repeat of what happened at launch: as a publicity stunt, drop the price of one unit, but then sell 20x more of the expensive model. That way, you can CLAIM that the price is $500, but in actuality, 95% of the population is forced into paying $600.

Honestly, I don't think anyone with half a brain thinks that the

Re:

[MeanderingMind]

I honestly don't expect it to be $499, but then again it's hard to predict console prices these days.

I'm not sure it matters either. Anywhere between $499-$599 dollars is still too much. So long as the bar for entry remains that high the PS3 will remain where it is. Even when the exclusive titles hit, it's going to be hard to keep momentum rolling at that price point.

As it stands, the PS3 is gaining slightly on the 360 (according to vgcharts.org). From approximately April to present, the PS3 sold 1.261m con

Re:

[MeanderingMind]

I believe you're confused with nexgenwars.com, which extrapolates based on previous trends and tends to have varying levels of accuracy in its numbers. Otherwise I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Additionally, if you could link sources/articles relating to you statement that the 360 is dead in two regions it would be appreciated. I'm aware that it is doing very poorly in Japan, but haven't seen sales numbers for elsewhere that indicate a pronouncement of "dead".

As for the "waggle", we will have to see.

65nm anyone?

[nuzak]

Price drop, that's nice, but it's not why I'm waiting. What I want to know is, how do I know for sure whether the units shipping (and the one in the store I'm getting) has the new 65nm chip? Less power consumption means less heat and less Red Rings. I know whatever I get will be warranteed anyway, but I don't feel like sending mine back.

Re:

[hudsonhawk]

You can be 100% positive about whether or not they will have it, seeing as they haven't made a single 360 with that process yet.

For when they do, you can view the manufacturing date of the console by flipping up the little cardboard flap on the side of the box.

Re:

[nuzak]

Thanks for the pointer. I decided I may as well just get one now since it might be next quarter til the new process actually hits the shelves, so I went out and grabbed an Elite last night. From an ebGames that sells out of 'em weekly, so I should imagine they at least have the extra heatsinks. That thing sure is a space heater.

And boy howdy is the DVD drive on that thing loud as sin too. I wish games would buffer more, or actually install to the HDD. Can't stuff it in a cabinet either, too hot (yeah I

Plenty of time

[Eponymous Crowbar]

Now I can get a second 360 and let the kids take over the first one. All I have to do is to verify somehow that I will get one of the 65nm designs. My wife forced me into doing this when she got suckered into pre-ordering Halo 3. For some reason, she ordered two copies...

E-rated 360 games?

[tepples]

Though I think a $250 core would have really given quite a lot more parents pause when buying a Nintendo wii for little Jimmy.

Not especially. Look at the ESRB ratings on the boxes in the Wii section and in the Xbox 360 section. How many Xbox 360 games are rated E [target.com], other than sport sims and Piñata Crossing [wikipedia.org]? On the other hand, isn't the $280 Xbox 360 Core going to be in stock much more often than the $250 Wii?

Re:

[KDR_11k]

From what I can see there's a lot more Wiis in stores than 360 Cores. Not surprising since noone wants a Core and without demand stores won't stock them.