The State of Play - Violence and Videogames

mozen writes "The BBC has an article up discussing the effects of videogames on the mind and how the media are reluctant to talk more openly about violent games. From the article: 'People who've grown up with Mario see him keeping pace, running and jumping along the building tops that streak by on a train journey. At best, it's a pleasant daydream — a happy reminder of a pastime you enjoy, and at worst, it's a mild distraction. Until, that is, you swap the games around. What if my screen dreams aren't of something so patently harmless as Puzzle Quest? What if they're of the stealth kills in Manhunt?'"

Better quote from the article

[faloi]

Games are under such sustained, and unfounded, attack because of the violence that they portray - still dramatically less gruesome that what is commonplace in film and TV

Wait, come again?

[Thansal]

The media DOESN'T like talking about violence in video games? What news sources do they use?

Re:

[NoobixCube]

This is the remarkably liberal British media. They can say "fuck" in prime time if they want, without every Christian in the country demanding they be sacked (an old guy's monocle might fall out though). Of course they don't like talking about games in media, there's no Mormons at the helm in the stations :P

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[somersault]

"They can say "fuck" in prime time if they want, without every Christian in the country demanding they be sacked (an old guy's monocle might fall out though)."

Err.. where do you get that idea? Sources please..

Re:

[Killjoy_NL]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=191 [vgcats.com]

Like this?? ;)

Re:

[ex_ottoyuhr]

Slashdot?

Real life has no reset button or savegames

[El_Muerte_TDS]

I'm not going to each pills, while running from ghosts, and listening to repetitive music.
I'm not planning to perform a stealth kill in real life. I can't reset the real world or restore a save game.

Of course, that is what a rational person would do. But irrational people are... well, irrational.

Re:

[Duffy13]

I soooooo saw you at that rave the other night, who are you kidding?

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[ultranova]

I can't reset the real world or restore a save game.

I wonder if save/load functionality will be added to the next version ?

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[Finite9]

Exactly...Only unstable people would act out their violent fantasies based on these games. Rational people would not take it further than the thought. Should we ban all violent video games based on the fact that the odd few people might commit acts of violence? In that case we should ban mostly everything that can be construed as violent. Think only happy thoughts, so the thought police don't catch you!

Anyone noticed that guns are not banned despite being the most obvious choice of weapon for unstable p

Re:

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Ah, another moron who tries to live Fight Club.

Or Pac-Man.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pac-man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

I'd post more, but I've gotta go to a rave tonight.

Re:Or Pac-Man.

[HTH NE1]

"Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pac-man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music."

I'd post more, but I've gotta go to a rave tonight.

Just don't go around trying to eat the cops afterward.

happens to me all the time

[acvh]

my first memory of this phenomenon is after playing Lode Runner on the C64 for hours, then trying to read a book. the letters would drop off the end of the line as I read.

when I played Katamari for too long I would see everything in terms of "can I roll it up", which could be dangerous when driving.

I still find myself strafing around corners in office building, entering elevators backwards, and being very aware that landing a plane is just a controlled crash.

None of that, however, has made me more likely to shoot someone when the elevator door opens or run my car over a pedestrian to hit my 10m goal.

Re:happens to me all the time

[the dark hero]

Sometimes i see a reticle that turns green or red depending on who i'm looking at.

Re:

[Control Group]

Seriously? You strafe around corners?

That strikes me as pretty difficult, really. I mean, I've played plenty of bathroom-tile Tetris, I've eyed up objects in the mall as potential anti-zombie weapons, I've had nightmares about the Mad Monks chasing me into a pit, I've tried to take residential corners along the optimum racing line, and I've sized up my office as an Action Half Life level...but I've never actually strafed around a corner. It's a lot of work to pretty much just simulate turning your head.

Re:happens to me all the time

[Solra Bizna]

I've been known to walk at a ~30 degree angle for extra speed [bungie.org].

-:sigma.SB

Re:

[Brian Gordon]

I actually walked around the perimeter of a room once rather than going straight across, and about halfway around I realized that I was checking corners for enemies :)

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[7Prime]

For reals? You mean, I'm not the only person who plays Tetris with bathroom tiles? SWEET, "Mom! You hear that! It looks like I'm not crazy after all!" But no really, I think the bathroom tetris thing is more a product of a very mildly OCD mind that's trying to make sense of everything... better while on acid, though; trying to fit blocks together when they REALLY ARE MOVING is a lot more fun.

But the strafing around corners... I definitely do, once in a while. I've seen a lot of people do it, it's actually v

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[dintech]

After hours of playing World of Warcraft I go to work and do repetitive tasks to slowly earn experience and money. Oh wait...

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[KoldKompress]

I thought EVERYONE runs through a list of anti-zombie precautions. Hell, I've got all my escape routes, checkpoints and a ZRP (My made-up term for Zombie Readiness Pack). Ever since I read Max Brooks "Zombie survival guide".

The Zombie Apocalypse is coming friends, be warned and be ready.

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[mooingyak]

I was driving along a main road once, kind of late at night. One of the stores on a corner had this eerie purplish light on it, and my first thought was that someone coming down the side street had quad damage.

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[fractoid]

Back when I played Warcraft 3, this one time I saw a burrowed crypt fiend on the freeway. Even changed lanes to avoid running it over... two seconds later I was like WTF. O_o

Another time more recently I found myself trying to polymorph a cop off his bike, but just couldn't quite find my mental hotkey. And god knows how many times I've tried to counterspell one of those boring people who just. wouldn't. shut. up. I guess it's lucky I wasn't too social while I was spending a lot of time playing my warrior i

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[Xybre]

I played Aliens Vs Predator 2 online for 36 hours, then my friend came by and we went out for a bit, all the while I'm seeing Xenomorphs ("Alien"s) in shadows and running across rooftops. Nothing like sleep deprivation to incite a little visual hallucination.

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[Reziac]

I don't "act out" any of the behaviours learned in DOOM (tho I sometimes have fun dreams set in a DOOM environment). But I have noticed that playing DOOM (which I still do), and becoming GOOD at it, also made me a much better driver, because it made me more aware of ALL the moving and hazardous objects that my vehicle might intersect. And I've always been good at maps and navigation, but DOOM improved my ability to peg my location on and keep track of the map in my head.

On the other end of things, even spea

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[acvh]

I with you on the mapping concept. Although it's kind of funny - I can build an effective cognitive map, whether driving, playing a game or whatever, but I couldn't use it to help you find your way if you paid me. Some kind of hemispherical disconnect I imagine.

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[LKM]

Same here. I used to do the homework for all of my pals back when we had to draw these 3D objects given two side views. But when doing military service as a driver, I constantly arrived late at the target because I got lost :-)

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[neverhadachoice]

ahaha i know EXACTLY what you mean.

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[LKM]

"Ah, if that tall asshat over there was a block, I could score a Tetris..."

Fucking hell.

[Pojut]

What if my screen dreams aren't of something so patently harmless as Puzzle Quest? What if they're of the stealth kills in Manhunt?'"

Then that means you daydream about that time you actually got the red kill. Big deal. You aren't daydreaming about murdering someone and then attempting to cover your tracks, worried if you will be found out, living with the guilt.

You are daydreaming about pressing fucking buttons. If you get those two confused, you belong in a VERY padded cell.

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[enjerth]

You are daydreaming about pressing fucking buttons. If you get those two confused, you belong in a VERY padded cell.

Exactly. And furthermore, that's exactly why I oppose more realism in my game controls. Muscle memory and reflexes can be dangerous if you've been "training" yourself for it under realistic circumstances. I appreciate a few degrees of separation between gameplay and real life.

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[Pojut]

why, do you run faster with a knife? ;-)

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[KoldKompress]

Bwahaha. Funniest comment I've read in a while.
But seriously. If you can mistake "WASD" for moving about, and Control for Crouching.. you have some weird connections there.

Who buys the games?

[steelclash84]

The parents? Do these parents let their kids watch 'R' rated movies, and yet have the audacity to complain when their kids start punching kittens? Too bad the media enjoys pinning child social problems on anything but the parents...

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[plague3106]

If a kid starts punching kittens, its probably because the parents abuse the child in some way. So yes, it is too bad the media doesn't blame the parents, because thats where blame belongs 100% of the time.

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[malsdavis]

It's not good to blame the audience for problems. Much better to blame someone else, in this case Video Games, but it could just as well be anything from usual list of bogeymen: Drugs, Rap Music, Paedophiles, Terrorists, Communists, etc.

The items on the list have one thing in common: mass-media's main audience (middle-aged, middle-income parents of middle-sized families) don't tend to like or identify with any of these so they act as good objects of blame as there is minimal likelihood of alienating viewers

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[toolie]

If a kid starts punching kittens, its probably because the parents abuse the child in some way. So yes, it is too bad the media doesn't blame the parents, because thats where blame belongs 100% of the time.

Because personal responsibility is only for those who can't afford their own lawyers?

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[plague3106]

Who said anything about money or lawyers? Animal abuse by a kid (actually, I believe most people) is a sign that the person was or is being abused. It warps the mind. Expecting that people behave "normally" when raised in an atmosphere of abuse is just ignorant.

Media's reluctance

[aztektum]

Hopefully because they realize it's bullshit to blame videogames for idiots who act badly. I watched Zappa on Crossfire (via YouTube) yesterday and it was the same argument ~20 years ago, except about rock music.

If you don't like the content DON'T FUCKING BUY IT.

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[mattnuzum]

We are influenced by those around us.

A 5 year old girl down the street swears like a sailor. Her parents don't care. They say, "No, its ok for her to say that. She's not in school."

She has an influence on my 6 year old son. He's never heard those words in our house, either said out loud or on TV or games. Yet a neighbor who knows our values called us and said, "I just heard your son say 'mother f***er' and I thought you'd like to know about it."

Absolutely we'd like to know about it. But what do you do? Give

Re:Media's reluctance

[Control Group]

Absolutely we'd like to know about it. But what do you do? Give your child a list of words never to say? Not let him play with other kids whose families have different policies on games and movies their kids can play and watch?

Frankly, yes, that's exactly what you do. While I'd be - to some extent - offended if some parents down the street stopped letting their son play with mine because they know I take my son shooting, I can't help but respect their commitment to raising their child the way they believe to be right.

Look at it this way: over the course of a normal life, every person is going to have to make decisions about the sorts of people he or she is going to associate with; that's one of the responsibilities of being an adult. When you have a young child, you have to assume those responsibilities for your child until he's old enough to shoulder them himself. No, of course it's neither pleasant nor ideal; neither is the rest of life.

And in the particular instance of swearing, a list of things he's not allowed to say isn't such a bad idea. After all, there's nothing inherently immoral about swearing, it's the use of obscenity in an inappropriate context that's the problem. There's a difference between me saying typing "fuck" on slashdot and me saying "fuck" in a job interview. Regardless of whether your son does swear, as long as he knows you won't tolerate it, and he'll get in trouble if you find out about it, I think you're doing your job well. That's the lesson he needs to learn, after all.

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[Hatta]

Regardless of whether your son does swear, as long as he knows you won't tolerate it, and he'll get in trouble if you find out about it, I think you're doing your job well.

If you don't care whether your child swears, why get upset about it? Frankly I think getting upset about it just encourages them. It empowers the child to get a reaction from adults. They know it's a special word so it goes in a special place in their brains. If you just ignore it, then there's no reaction, and there's no fun. They'll

Re:

[HTH NE1]

There's a difference between me saying typing "fuck" on slashdot and me saying "fuck" in a job interview.

In converse to the thread, I was working at a computer with several other people in the same room working on computers. No cubicle walls. The boss was in the next room, and something prompted him to ask me, "Don't you ever swear?"

I stopped typing, looked up at the space above the monitor, and I swear I had a mental image of a scene out of Terminator, seeing a list of possible responses (Yes, No, Or what, Fuck you, Fuck you asshole, etc.) and decided to loudly blurt out, " Fuck yes!" and went back to my t

Re:

[jythie]

And here we get to the crux of the issue.

It is not about being allowed to raise one's kids as one sees fit, it is about making sure OTHER parents raise their kids in such a way that it doesn't interfere with one's own style. The off chance that one's kids might be exposed to things one does no approve of by parents who do approve. In other words, LCD parenting.

I can recall growing up, kids who's parents did not believe in soft drinks or TV going absolutely livid that their children hung out with families

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[dintech]

In other words, LCD parenting.

I hope that's in no way related to LSD parenting...

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[vertinox]

Absolutely we'd like to know about it. But what do you do? Give your child a list of words never to say? Not let him play with other kids whose families have different policies on games and movies their kids can play and watch?

One of my neighbors parents wouldn't let their kids play with me cause my parents were catholic. (I'm dead serious)

On the other end of the spectrum, my parents had hippie friends who wouldn't let their kid come over because we had Atari video games and a TV and I wasn't allowed to bri

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[ultranova]

But the point is still the same... If you don't like the parenting abilities of your neighbors, you have the right to keep your kid at home, locked up, and scared of the Pope.

Do you ? The kid is still human and as such has human rights. At some point bringing him up the way you like will interfere with those rights and thus count as child abuse, for sufficiently extreme values of "the way you like". While using the Pope as a boogeyman propably wouldn't count (and might even be perfectly reasonable - the

Re:

[grumbel]

The media is certainly to blame, but so are the gamers. If not everybody would go into total denial mode when a "Do video games affect us?" comes up, we might be a little closer to find out what video games are and are not doing to us.

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[Krakhan]

Why yes, because the effects of gaming can be clearly seen from Pure Pwnage [purepwnage.com]. :)

Obsession

[Sefert]

It's a funny thing, obsession. Sure, I've had some delicious fantasies of siting down that scope after too much Battlefield 2. And frankly, I'm ok with that. This article really is indirectly talking about the obsessive nature of humans to do too much of what we like. There's been tons of articles floating around the net about 'internet addiction', and I'm sure everyone reading this article knows at least someone that does something way too much. Personally, I think this modern day tendency to associate the activity with the addiction is irritating. People don't have MSN Messenger addiction, or video game addiction. They've just got a problem with balancing their life. And perhaps they need therapy to make that happen, but don't label the symptom as the problem.

I think what people don't understand...

[PJ1216]

People don't understand that there will be people that always exist that have less than family-friendly daydreams. Its obvious in the books we read, the movies we watch, the games we play, and the music we listen to. Socially unacceptable behavior isn't always that uncommon of a desire or fantasy. Sometimes that "unacceptability" of the act may make it that much more desired. I think sometimes the only reason we have whatever balance we've achieved is that those desires that are repressed are allowed ou

Nethack

[Kaenneth]

I've had many (nighttime) dreams set in video games, but the weirdest by far were the Nethack dreams.

Re:

[Solra Bizna]

I've had many (nighttime) dreams set in video games, but the weirdest by far were the Nethack dreams.

I've only had one of those, and I can say, "Who needs recreational drugs when you can live in an 80x24 terminal in your dreams?"

Unfortunately, I woke up when I got YASD...

-:sigma.SB

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[CronoCloud]

n@n ?

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[Kaenneth]

more like

DDD
D@D
DDD

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[pAnkRat]

reminds me of the userfriendly story line with A.J. locked in nethack:
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060522 [userfriendly.org]

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[account_deleted]

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Re:

[Xybre]

I can't imagine how much more "damaging" video games are with fake blood and real-time rendered graphics are compared to the public executions and coliseum games of centuries past (or not even past, in some places).

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[Xybre]

I'll agree with that to an extent, the part where my opinion diverges is where the crowds *want* to the see the blood, *want* to watch someone die. They want the real thing.

The other part is warfare, you brought up the military, which is irrelevant when we're talking about violence on the street and in schools. There is no separation or abstraction, is a kid at a school pulls a gun or a knife or a shiv and kills another student or teacher or goes on a rampage, they are *there* they are living it, breathing

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

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[HTH NE1]

schools going batshit loco over a 6 year old **drawing a picture of a gun**

They should be suing Warner Bros. The kid obviously learned that from watching Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Please pass the ketchup, I think I'll go to bed.

Not just violence

[jgoemat]

What about the 6-year-old boy who was suspended because a teacher witnessed him kissing a classmate on the cheek?

Re:

[brkello]

This is such a confusing comment. I agree with you on the video game part of your post...but the rest comes off as "bat shit loco" to me. You are basically blaming gun control on women. This is obviously something you care about since the majority of your post focused on that rather than video games. Were you rejected by some girl who thought you were too masculine and now have become bitter?

The whole stereotype of masculinity is a joke anyways. Are you more of a man because you go out blow the crap o

Games in my head

[hansamurai]

When I used to play World of Warcraft, I would go to sleep at night with my priest or rogue's actions running through my brain. I would constantly see myself playing, doing basically the same thing over and over, either running around or doing the typical battle moves that I would use against every enemy. This bothered me incredibly as I wasn't really sleeping, I was more in between and it was stopping me from falling asleep.

Something similar happened the night before I got married. I had been playing Meteos (a puzzle game for the DS) for a couple of hours to help calm me, and by the time I did go to bed, I was playing the game in my head. Along with the emotions of the coming day hitting me, I had such a hard time falling asleep. I got about as much sleep that night as the next night.

And I've also played Puzzle Quest in my head. I hate puzzle games!

Re:

[Control Group]

Wait - you had time the night before your wedding for anything other than the rehearsal, dinner, and making sure everything was ready for the wedding?!?

Man, I need to file a complaint.

Re:

[jnik]

As long as you had time the night after your wedding for anything other than seeing the guests off and sleeping, you're doing better than most people I've discussed that with....

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[Control Group]

Well, of course not. Evidently, it used to be the custom that the happy couple departed the reception early for just this reason.

No such luck at ours. We personally said goodbye to every...single...drunkard.

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[The One and Only]

Why did you act like your own wedding was something totally beyond your control?

Re:

[hansamurai]

We had a Sunday wedding so the couple who were having a Saturday wedding at the same place already booked up their rehearsal for the Friday night. So our rehearsal and dinner was actually earlier on Thursday night. Saturday I just had to make sure all the guys had their tuxes and that everything was in line for the honeymoon. I suppose I could have helped out more now that I think about it...

Re:

[LogicHoleFlaw]

Do a google search on "Tetris dreams". This is a pretty well-known phenomenon. Usually it's caused by your unconscious mind exploring the possibility space of a given constrained set of circumstances. In the classic Tetris study, the subjects' gameplay skills improved dramatically after playing to the point where they had dreams about the game. Their minds were 'pre-solving' Tetris and evaluating different strategies.

Heh, I get this effect the most when I've been playing a lot of Soul Calibur.

ANOTHER report on video games?

[Mr.Fork]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong... I have read tonnes of info (even here on slashdot) [slashdot.org] about idiots, and I put that politely, trying to find links between media viewed/played violence and children/adults. What research is finding that your own upbringing/life experiences/brain injuries has more to do with altered behaviour than playing a fracking computer game. I've personally played tonnes of 'violent' video games, I mean, gruesome violent blow-off-limbs games, spray walls with blood, or nuke a city. But I

I have occasional Gaming / Real World mix-ups!

[malsdavis]

"I know that, if I've spent an entire weekend playing Halo and you stick me behind a crowd of slow-moving tourists, there's a split second when I wish I had my pistol "

Personally, I find after a weekend that features gaming heavily that when I'm waiting at the bus stop on Monday morning I sometimes find myself trying to press my brain's "z" button to toggle telescopic zoom, hoping I'll spot the bus coming down the long, straight road.

I'm not just daydreaming, for a split second I really think that some sort of inbuilt binoculars will activate and its actually a real disappointment when I realise I don't have such capabilities.

I guess it's a good thing I'm not usually holding an M-16 when waiting at the bus stop!

Re:

[TubeSteak]

I'm not just daydreaming, for a split second I really think that some sort of inbuilt binoculars will activate and its actually a real disappointment when I realise I don't have such capabilities.

I guess it's a good thing I'm not usually holding an M-16 when waiting at the bus stop!

I felt the exact same way.

You know how I banished that disappointment?
I replaced the stock sites on my M-16 with a 3-9x42 variable power zoom scope.

Not only do I see the bus coming from far off, but the crack heads stopped hanging around my bus stop!

The standard denial

[p4rri11iz3r]

Just as the article says, everyone here will give the standard denial out of fear of giving the opposition new ammo.

But they do make a point. I've experienced a similar phenomenom. After playing hours of Tetris, I've found myself almost unwillingly thinking about moves, combos etc... even after I'd moved on. There was a pop-cap game where you shoot off fireworks that did the same thing, making me constantly think of new combos and such. We can deny the affects all we like, but anything that is repetitive will eventually get under your skin when over-exposed. The moment of truth comes in how we allow this to affect our behaviour. Most people are able to shake these affects and move on with their life, but a few can become consumed by it. These are the people who become your psychopaths and mass-murderers. Every person feels that urge every now and again to just go off. Whether you're sitting in traffic, in line at the bank, or doing some other tedious and/or annoying task, the urges exist. Those of us who are civilized and possess the ability to think rationally can get past these moments without incident, but again, there are always the few who can't.

This is why violent videogames are important. They help us to see what lies within us, and what the consequences of giving into can lead to. Games like Manhunt and Grand Theft Auto are great not because of their gameplay, but because they allow us to do that which we suppress in ourselves. It allows us to act out our most deviant and perverse fantasies without fear of repercussions. Nobody in their right mind will admit to it (which begs the question if I'm in my right mind), but we all have these fantasies at one point or another.

In a way, video games do affect me, just not in the way the "analysts" think. I'd say I'm far less likely to go on a killing spree or whatever after playing GTA. Why? Because I realize that driving my car into a "Pay n' Spray" will not help me one iota in a full on man-hunt involving the FBI and the National Guard. It reinforces that there is nothing great or glorious about killing someone in whatever gruesome manner the developer has cooked up. But most importantly, it helps me realize just how dark and terrible these urges are, and reinforces in me the need to suppress them.

So mod me into oblivion for speaking the truth if you must (It's the slashdot way, afterall), afterall, we wouldn't want our opponents to know this.

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[blahplusplus]

"After playing hours of Tetris, I've found myself almost unwillingly thinking about moves, combos etc... even after I'd moved on."

The truth is it's about learning and/or your brain digesting the information. I know I've had the same thing happen in games you play frequently, your mind gets stuck in 'game playing / solving mode' and takes a little while to get back to normal.

Speak only for yourself pal.

[AgentBif]

Games like Manhunt and Grand Theft Auto are great not because of their gameplay, but because they allow us to do that which we suppress in ourselves. It allows us to act out our most deviant and perverse fantasies without fear of repercussions. Nobody in their right mind will admit to it (which begs the question if I'm in my right mind), but we all have these fantasies at one point or another.

Hey man, please do not presume to speak for me, or for others for that matter. Not that the popularity of GTA is in dispute... but you can't assume everyone, even among a crowd of gamers, has your mindset.

I personally find the notion of actually enjoying acting out fantasies of mean-spirited criminal brutality to be quite repugnant and disturbing. I haven't the slightest desire to play such role, even in a game. It's depressing that so many people actually derive pleasure from twisted, perverse crap l

Chatterbox

[HTH NE1]

"Okay, and speaking of impossible, Jane from Cedar Grove is on the line, and she wants to talk about how difficult it is being a parent today. Hello Jane."

"Hi Lazlow, I love the show, I'm a first time caller. I wanted to say something about these videogames, they are warping our kids minds. My sons dog, Bugle, got hit by a truck, and he says, 'Mummy, mummy, where's the reset button?' Kids these days, they think life is a game. Well it's not a game Lazlow. It is very, very serious. I let my kid play video games, and now, he runs around the house looking for gold coins. This is teaching our children to go chase money. My eldest has been playing this new videogame, called Pogo the Monkey."

"Yeah, I've heard of that one."

"The shop teacher called me today, and Sam made a home-made banana cannon in shop class, and was lobbing them across the street at a fast-food restaurant. And it's all because of videogames. Lazlow, life does not have a reset button."

"Right, but this show does."

[dial tone]

"I love that button."

Why read the article?

[sarysa]

I know I'm certainly violating forum etiquette by not reading the article, but in not doing so, I'll make a point.

I had to listen to what was probably this story on the radio while driving to work this morning. Every two-three months, someone manages to get a press release out saying violence in video games is harming society, and all the major media outlets pick it up. It typically happens during slow news weeks, when they run out of mine collapses, celebrity snafus, and infrastructure meltdowns.

I do

Re:

[grumbel]

### I had to listen to what was probably this story on the radio while driving to work this morning.

You should read the article, since you completly missed the point. Short summary, the article says that:

- video games do affect us (Puzzle Quest as example)
- yet we have no real understanding how they affect us
- that the whole discussion is limited to violence only, by both media and gamers themselves, makes it very hard to find out to have a real discussions

Re:

[sarysa]

I'll concede then. The major focus on the radio was violence, so I jumped to conclusions.

At least I have a long-winded rant ready for the next "typical" government vs. gaming article, once this article gets buried and forgotten and it's back to same old.

For those who don't want to RTFA before posting...

[Lijemo]

1. He does not claim that playing violent video-games make people violent.
2. He does not claim that violent video games should be banned
3. He acknowledges that there is a witch-hunt mentality about violent video games, and condemns this.
4. He plays violent video-games himself.

He does say that doing something over and over again-- whether it's a video game move or a cross-stitch pattern-- clearly affects the way we think. He acknowledges that this does NOT have to affect how we behave, and usually doesn't. But these things DO have a cognitive effect. His argument is that if we can only ever talk about this effect-or-lack-there-of in the context of condemning or defending violent video games, we are not going to be able to explore what is really happening.

His point is that the cognitive effects-- positive, negative, and/or neutral-- are worth exploring, and cannot be explored when every exploration begins with an agenda of "for" or "against", setting out to prove that games are/are not harmful. Is this really such an outlandish suggestion?

Re:For those who don't want to RTFA before posting

[mozen]

I think your summary is spot on except that the "he" is a "she" ;-)

Re:

[neilsclark]

lol

Re:

[Lijemo]

Oops :)

This is the state of play.

[rob1980]

I'm sitting here right now, with my Nintendo DS and Final Fantasy 3, ordering my little pixellated minions to mow down everything in sight using a variety of weapons and offensive magic. And I've been doing this since I was 10.

Now if we can't find more productive things to be outraged about than violence in video games, I'm going to have to start throwing silence spells around.

Badgers

[riffzifnab]

Until, that is, you swap the games around. What if my screen dreams aren't of something so patently harmless as Puzzle Quest? What if they're of the stealth kills in Manhunt?

And what if I dream of stapling Oscar Mayer wieners to badgers and then releasing them in a crowded hall of vegetarians? What a crazy swap that would be! Man I have to lay of the badger stapling game marathons over the weekends or god help me, me and my red Swingline might go to town one day.

[twitch twitch]

Humor

[tazsl]

There's a lot of humor in video games. Does that cause humor in the streets?

Re:

[grumbel]

Short answer: Yes. Movies and TV have however a much larger effect, thanks to much more humor. When was the last time you heard somebody quoting Simpsons? Likely not that long ago. Case closed.

Amateur.

[Spy der Mann]

What if they're of the stealth kills in Manhunt?

You haven't played Silent Hill before bedtime, have you?

Dreams and Obsessions

[neilsclark]

This was a great article, and it reminded me of a blog I did [neilsclark.com] after uncontrollably waking up at 3AM to listen to one specific song. I've been studying game addiction for the past 3 years, and Margaret is right on target. We need way more sophistication in these debates on "addiction," and "violence." It's silly to see that games like Quake are censored from CBS' coverage of the World Series of Video Games [neilsclark.com], meanwhile on TV, 24 lets Jack Bauer mow down Chinese, Russian and Unspecified Middle Easterners.

When

GTA

[payndz]

I remember that after a marathon session of playing Vice City, when I went out into the real world again I found myself thinking "If I did a flying dropkick, that bloke's Kawasaki would be mine!" every time a motorbike went past. And I don't even know how to ride a motorbike.

Hold on...

[ReAn1985]

I love how everyone is quick to point out violence *could* be caused by violent video games, but nobody sees the other side, perhaps people who are already fucked up in the head just simply play violent video games along side the rest of us sane people. Video games are an interesting portal to play something you are not. I'm not a violent killer, I don't steal cars... it's not me, but I still find the games compelling because they have 3 distinct attractive features. 1) Graphics, i'm motivated by graphics