MMO Bans Men Playing As Women 616
jkcity writes "In a bizarre move Aurora Technology the owners of the King of the World MMORPG has taken the unusual step of banning men who play women characters but the ban itself does not stretch to women playing men. If you want to play as a woman now in game you have to prove you are a women via web cam. This is something that people ask for in many mmorpgs I myself have seen people say people who play women in EVE online as being some kind of degenerate but how long can a policy of verification by web cam last since its so easy to get around it doesn't seem to solve much and is an insult to many."
So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Who doesn't?!?
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So that means... MMO Crying Game (Score:3, Insightful)
And, if there's no law preventing a man from dressing up as a woman in real life, why should there be restrictions for them to do so in a virtual world?
For anyone whose thinking, "well in real life, at a real bar, I can tell it's a man dressed up like a woman so I won't ever talk to him -- that's the difference!", I challenge you to go see a cabaret s
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Funny)
Hey c'mon, how was I supposed to know that Slutzilla was a man!?
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
*You can get free stuff with minimal effort.
*You don't spend 30+ hours a week staring at the cartoon picture of a guy's ass.
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Funny)
3rd person perspective (was Re:So that means...) (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why I hate 3rd person perspective. Most of the "scenery" is your avatar's ass. I like to see the damn game! It espeically pisses me off when your avatar gets in the way of seeing something important. Fixed camera (such as resident evil) is even worse--try and aim at a target in 3d space while viewing on a flat screen...WTF?
Re:3rd person perspective (was Re:So that means... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm gonna get all ranty now because I really, really am baffled by the original success of RE ten years ago. It never should have survived...I guess it reflects the low standards console gamers had at the time versus PC gamers as adventure games and/or shooters go. What s
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Informative)
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6 items in the trade window later I said thanks and he said "see ya, enjoy" and took off.
As I went through each item to see what he had dumped off on me I realized he'd given me 5 pieces of complete vendor trash and a Staff of Jordan, which I couldn't even use ye
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Re:So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I'd played female tabletop RPG characters with about equal frequency as male PCs for years, without having to worry about that. If the other players at the table bothered me "in that way," a quick shocking grasp or heat metal to the codpiece set them straight.
But my first female toon in WoW was a bank alt, and I dressed her in her undies and a buccaneer's shirt, cuz she looked good in them. Then I noticed other toons standing around and gawking at her.
And you know, I finally felt what most women must have to learn to deal with when they grow bewbs.
And the second revalation is that it only took me about 60 seconds to get over it, and ignore it. It's their problem, not mine.
So, I say, let cross-gender roleplaying happen. It's educational.
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Informative)
One day, when the game was still new and fun, I grouped with a bunch of guys using my main character, a male blaster. I was the highest level of the bunch, and the group lead, so I handled the tactics, the coordination, the works. It was a blast, mostly because the guys I worked with were attentive, on-the-ball, and focused.
A few weeks later I ran into these guys and formed these guys up for a group again. Big difference, though; I was playing a one of my wife's alts -- "Bealzu-Babe" -- and was, in game, "female". I decided, just for kicks, not to tell them who I was.
As before, I was the highest level of the group, and it was my team. Big difference, though; the guys didn't listen to me. They ignored my calls, did their own thing, and in the end even insulted me. Only when I told them who I was (and that I was leveling my wife's alt) did they start listening again.
When I told my wife this she just smiled and said "Now you know what it's like for me in the game."
The bottom line here is that I actually learned something from playing a female character. It's not something I think I'd do again -- I felt pretty silly, and got tired of being gawked at -- but I still would like to have the option.
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In EQ1, you could outfit a whole party with good equipment by playing a single female toon. I have friends that did just that in the early days. One female cleric got the whole party very nice (for the time) equipment to get them going, just by standing around and acting clueless.
In games with much less mature players (WoW comes to mind awfully fast f
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Interesting)
I was astonished the first time some random guy opened a trade window and gave me stuff out of the blue.
All my WoW toons are female with the exception of one bank alt. The main reason is I don't think much of the male avatars as a general rule.
At RPG tournament level I've probably played more male than female characters - due mostly to the fact that game designers often didn't include female characters in the senarios. Or if they did they were T&A fluff.
My RPG campaign characters are mostly female because it's easier for me that way. Though I've had a few male characters along the way.
The guys I play tabletop RPGs with play a mix of male and female toons. It only pisses me off when one guy in particular always tried to play ugly chicks obsessed with getting impregnated by the heir of any particular kingdom we happen to be in at a the time. Not sure what that says about his view of women.
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That shouldn't be hard for about half of them.
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Funny)
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More proposed rules:
- only black people may have black avatars
- only elves may play elves
- if you want STR over 10 you have to bench press 100lbs on webcam
- if you wish your character to speak another language, you must submit a request in writing, in that language, to the admins
- if your CHA is over 15 you can pretty much do what you want, after you seduce one of our admins
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Funny)
I think you are seriously under estimating geekdom if you think that writing a letter in elf/orc/dwarf is going to hold back many mmo players.
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
At any rate, what is to stop me, or anyone with a girlfriend or wife, from a quick substitution for the webcam. My wife would think this rule is ridiculous and do it in a heartbeat.
More to the point though, I have to agree with the Parent here... Its a FREAKING RPG. Let people Role Play in the Game as they see fit.
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's.. PAT (Score:5, Funny)
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My first thought exactly. The second thought though, was what about cases where someone has a sexually ambiguous look? This is a lawsuit waiting to happen for this company, especially since they didn't require women to play only women characters. That's discrimination plain and simple.
Just wait until some mannish-looking woman is denied a female character...
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd think that playing female characters in RPGs would be a good enough deterrent.
Yes, you are deluded. But partially right. (Score:5, Informative)
Though, rest assured, your theory doesn't make me think any less of you. It's perfectly normal for people to imagine all manner of voodoo lurking in the gameplay mechanics of their favorite games. This is due to a combination of magical thinking [wikipedia.org] and the brain's natural response to the sort of variable reward schedules you find in these games. In short, the human brain is exquisitely good at pattern matching, but is particularly prone to false positives, so we occasionally develop intense faith in patterns that just aren't there. Even knowing all this, I find myself doing the same thing, sometimes.
That said, though, your primary point should not be diminished. Demanding that people don't cross-play is every bit as silly as demanding that the players of spellcasters really be able to cast spells. It's a goddamn escapist fantasy world. So, let people escape!
However, even more important than that, the fact that many female avatars are played by men right now is actually protective, in a way. Sexual anonymity curtails a great deal of potential sexual harassment. When the genders are outed, an abusive person's targets are clear. I expect that this change will make the game completely unplayable for their real female players.
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You're spot on. Potential sexual harassment really is a major issue that is often ignored. I've played many different games in many different ways. I play characters of both genders, with a slight bias toward females, if only because the inter-personal interactions are so much more interesting. (Read: People talk to you more, even if the reasoning is shallow in many cases)
I have played characters as female, intentionally giving the impression that I'm female in real life (a blatant
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, revealing age scares me even more! I still love video games and mmorpg's in particular, but skew significantly older than the core demographic. What does that mean? It means getting party invites becomes one hell of a lot harder when you're old enough to be the party leader's dad! Online games are a great way to have fun with others who share a common interest, but too many details from real life would just get in the way of that. I have to be an old guy in real life everyday, do I have to do that in online games too? I hope not!
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e.g. you hear some 8-year old guild leader over vent ordering his 30+ year old guildmembers around in a voice that won't be breaking for another 4 years. Yes sir!
Maybe it's because I'm a nerd/geek/techie - I'd have no probs with respecting competence when I see it wheter it's from a little girl or a border collie.
Thing is, competence is rare.
Re:So that means... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Unless, of course, they want to be
Re:So that means... (Score:5, Funny)
Oblig. (Score:4, Informative)
There's only one solution to this... (Score:5, Funny)
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We are geeks (Score:3, Funny)
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It's sad that the assumption is that playing a gender other than your biological sex is only done for deception. Having to conform to gender roles is bad enough in real life; let's not bring it online too (and a roleplay game, of all places!), where your physical body shouldn't matter.
One of the things
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)
I've found that I'm generally a step further away than some people - I don't identify the character as myself, or myself as my character. I'm more like the controller types you see in some advanced military movies. You know, where there's a guy sitting in a trailor/room somewhere with a bunch of video and status screens sending directions to the soldier who's actually in the field.
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"The Internet: where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents."
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If the game were first-person, and if the game were immersive, I'd pick an avatar that represented myself. But WOW isn't first-person (well, ok, you can set it to a first-person view, but that's a huge disadvantage for targeting monsters and I doubt anybody seriously plays that way), and it's definitely not immersive, what with the massive amounts of clippin
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
How insecure do you have to be to have your sexuality threated by a male avatar in a freaking ROLE PLAYING game? You're either gay or you aren't. Looking at a male avatar doesn't make you gay.
Are all your friends 14 years old?
I've heard some good practical reason to play as a woman (free shit from other players, for example), but feeling insecure about looking at a male avatar? WTF?
-matthew
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Zxeses did by saying, "I play a female because I'm /not/ deviant and because I'm not a gay man." As if playing a male and looking at a male avatar would make you gay or mean that you were gay.
Maybe, but that isn't what he said.
Only if you note that you feel gay when you look at another male and make a consciou
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This isn't about insecurity. A guy reading playboy isn't insecure about his sexuality; he's indulging in it. He's not trying to prove he's heterosexual; he's merly being heterosexual. He's been given the choice between looking at a male or female character, he's choosing to look at a female one. Its just that simple.
Interesting excuse ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting excuse ... (Score:5, Funny)
what gamer girls?
Re:Interesting excuse ... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Interesting excuse ... (Score:5, Funny)
That's not it (Score:4, Funny)
"TITS OR GTFO"
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Re:Interesting excuse ... (Score:5, Informative)
Intersex conditions (where a persons chromosomes are not XX or XY) will often cause ambiguous genitals, at what point does a very small penis become a very large clitoris? at what point does a shallow vagina become a divided scrotum? If the medical community has problems reaching a consensus on this, what hope does a computer admin?
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) can cause a genetically healthy male (XY) to develop as a perfectly healthy female. The bodily changes that occur in vitro require the androgens (male hormones) from the mother to find the proper receptors in the fetus' cells... if those receptors are either missing or nonfunctional then the body will continue along its default path (female). Often, those with total AIS do not even find out about it until they discover they are infertile. Partital AIS can result in anything from the appearance of a masculine female to that of a effeminate male with genitals ranging from one to the other.
Add in the huge number of pre-operative or non-operative transgender folk and the number of people that have genitals that match their genetic sex or their mental gender is far less then most people realize.
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However, since I know I've met a good deal of people whose gender I couldn't determine, I'm wondering just what one needs to show on a web cam. Perhaps this is really a way for the Aurora guys to find dates who aren't 45 year old divorced males.
Is this not a ripe opportunity for a "special" quote from SNL's Pat?
Ridiculous (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, no matter how hard you beg the developer, that hot elven chick just won't be that way in real life. And this step doesn't get you closer to that.
Just watch... (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's a conservative guess...I bet most would skew it even more towards male players.
Re:Just watch... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Also, I should point out that IF we find that there are 80% or more men in a game that bans men playing as women, we should consider that maybe the registration requirements alienated real women by making regist
Punctuation is your friend (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe the mods are to blame for that, but wow.
Mom is a woman! Easy fix... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Idiotic (Score:4, Interesting)
Also would this one-sided policy not directly violate anti-discrimination laws? Seems to me it does.
Perverted admins (Score:5, Funny)
Webcam rules:
1.) Webcam image quality must be sufficient to see subject clearly.
2.) No objects should be placed so as to obstruct at least the top half of the body.
3.) Subject should be nude.
4.) No fatties.
Re:Perverted admins (Score:5, Funny)
Oh man, now I can't fake being smart (Score:5, Interesting)
Greater crowds than ever... (Score:5, Insightful)
Street Fighter (Score:4, Funny)
So how do you "role play" this? (Score:4, Insightful)
(If they're planning to "grandfather" ["grandmother?"] existing male-as-female avatars, that'll probably create even more problems for them.)
It does get kind of creepy (Score:5, Funny)
Why is that "degenerate"? (Score:4, Interesting)
So, say you're a straight guy and not into role playing. Why would you prefer looking at a male character for hours? Usually the camera position in such games would be _behind_ the character, so you'd be staring at the male character's ugly back or butt for hours
While the male characters are unlikely to be as bad as goatse.cx, given the larger numbers of males in the game developing industry - I'm sure the female characters are going to look better than the male ones
If I control an animal, robot, car or vehicle in a game, I sure don't expect it to resemble me.
Hey look... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hobgoblins: "Let's Talk Women" (Score:4, Funny)
[clips of Hobgoblins, with Amy and Daphne in them]
Crow T. Robot:
[a clip of Mike Nelson biting into a sandwich,]
Crow T. Robot:
[A black and white, Bigfoot-like photo of a large woman in a forest]
Crow T. Robot: The longer hair, the gentle and nurturing demeanor are typical of how witnesses describe their supposed encounters with women. This footprint...
[Crow stands beside a clay model of a huge Bigfoot-sized footprint]
Crow T. Robot:
Mustachioed Crow T. Robot: Then... uh... this woman - I think it was a woman... she... uh... married me.
Crow T. Robot: [off-screen as interviewer] Did you have any children, sir?
Mustachioed Crow T. Robot: I don't remember!
Crow T. Robot: Some day perhaps, an actual woman will emerge, and they will no longer exist only in the realm of myth and maybe. Thank You.
Simple fix (Score:4, Insightful)
Real-life sex: M/F
Will have to veryify via webcam (Score:5, Funny)
"But you're a guy"
"How dare you sir!"
"But you have a beard"
"And I'm a little sensitive about it. I'd rather you didn't mention it"
"And a deep voice"
"Yes. A lot of people comment on that."
"I'm not convinced you're a woman"
"I'll strip naked for you to prove it if you prefer"
"Yikes! No. That won't be neccesary. Thankyou for verifying you gender. Have a nice day, maam".
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So, if you're a guy, especially with a big beard and a deep voice verify anyway.
"But you're a guy"
"How dare you sir!"
"But you have a beard"
"And I'm a little sensitive about it. I'd rather you didn't mention it"
"And a deep voice"
"Yes. A lot of people comment on that."
"I'm not convinced you're a woman"
"I'll strip naked for you to prove it if you prefer"
"Yikes! No. That won't be neccesary. Thankyou for verifying you gender. Have a nice day, maam".
Sounds like this person would be fully qualified to play a female dwarf.
TG's (Score:5, Insightful)
No more metroid... (Score:5, Insightful)
What a load of crap. It's fantasy - a game for goodness sake. My guess is really some loser who runs the service just wants to look at pictures of the people playing women characters.
Playing gender roles (Score:5, Interesting)
Out of about 6 or so people interviewed, the most common reasons given for playing as female were:
- Male characters are ugly in many games
- People (males) give you free stuff if you're a female character, especially a newbie
- People are more likely to help you if you're an attractive female character
- Females get better looking clothes
- Men want to look at an attractive avatar, and don't necessarily think of it as being themselves
- Females want to play an attractive character, or like the clothes a female char gets, but don't necessarily think of it as being themselves
Reasons people don't like playing female:
- Guys hit on you constantly
- Occasional stalkers
- Many female avas are overtly sexual or 'slutty'
- Female avas don't look tough or 'butch' even as warrior-types
One female gamer said that when asked her gender while playing her female char, she tells people she's a guy because that gets them to stop bothering her. WHen she plays as a male, she tells them her real gender because that also freaks them out. The people I talked to basically just want to play the game, and don't like having sexual or gendered attitudes imposed on them, so I wonder what they will think of this.
This move by the company really seems like implicitly supporting the idea of using MMOs as a hook-up site, instead of a fantasy realm, so I doubt it will be popular among the people I talked to.
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No, you missed the important part: the insistence by these male players that "I don't really see it as representing me" and "I just like looking at my avatar." Otherwise you'd also be trying to argue that it is wholly impossible for a truly heterosexual man
Study: Half of Female Avatars are Men (Score:4, Informative)
If you're interested, you can read the details of Nick's research [nickyee.com], along with an earlier study of gender switching in Everquest [nickyee.com].
New Business Opportunity (Score:5, Funny)
I remember one time... (Score:4, Funny)
Just wondering. Are ugly people expected to... (Score:3, Informative)
The point is to escape a crappy reality.
Silver Lining ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh man (Score:4, Funny)
"Ok, we're having a problem here."
'What? I thought you said my webcam is working?'
"Yeeeah. The problem is that we still can't tell if you're a woman."
This won't end well.
On the "I stare at my avatar..." arguments (Score:3)
Am I sexually attracted to my own avatar? No. But what I am sexually attracted to are all the female avatars (and the female players behind them) that are drawn to my male avatar. I'm so cute that I've lost track of the number of times a woman has asked me to stop so she could get a picture taken with me, and if I'm sitting around in a crowded town long enough, at least one random woman (often two or three, as they bring their friends) will come up to me, gush over how cute I am and start to tease and play with me a little.
Granted, being "cute" rather than "butch" means a higher percentage of those female avatars are controlled by female players, but in general, being a male avatar gives me a far greater opportunity to meet, talk to and flirt with women than I would otherwise, something that simply wouldn't happen if I had chosen to play as a hot chixx0rz. And if you're truly a straight guy, isn't that the most important part?
Unless, of course, you get a sexual thrill out of having to disappoint lustful guys...
Degenerates for the win! (Score:5, Funny)
Fitting name for the company... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Doesn't work... (Score:5, Funny)
~S
Re:finally (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, that's what females do in real life; use their feminine wiles to their advantage.
But your complaint is absurd. If one is unable to resist the feminine wiles of an online-character, then it's his own fault, not fault of the the person playing the female character.
I've known many that have played characters of the player's opposite sex (both men playing as women and women playing as men), and I see no problem with it. The whole point of playing RPGs (either multi-player or single-player) is to get to assume a role you could never assume in real life. The ability to choose your character's gender, ethnicity, etc, goes along with that.
This business of requiring webcams for anyone playing as a woman is the stupidest thing I've heard of in a long time.
Lets cut to the chase (Score:3, Insightful)
Hence Laura Crofts fame.