Nintendo Cracks Down on Copying Devices

Adrian Lopez writes "Nintendo is cracking down on mod chips and copying devices with the help of the Hong Kong government. 'The Hong Kong High Court has intervened, at Nintendo's request, to help stop a global distribution operation involving game copying devices and modification chips that violate the copyrights and trademarks of Nintendo DS and Wii. On Oct. 8th, the court ordered the raid of Supreme Factory Limited facilities, through which Nintendo representatives seized more than 10,000 game copying devices and mod chips over the course of three days. The devices seized are used to copy and play Nintendo DS games offered unlawfully over the Internet, and the mod chips allow the play of pirated Wii discs or illegal copies of downloaded Nintendo games.'"

But they wont achive much

[Tainek]

Its like taking piss out of a swimming pool, you can make wii chips out of commonly availible materials for $5 (WiiFree, OpenWii etc)

Re:But they wont achive much

[Kamokazi]

That's all fine and dandy for the Wii, but for the DS it's not so simple. The sad thing here is I think Nintento is missing the opportunity for a new product.

What a lot of these 3rd party cartridges do for the DS do is allow people to (aside from copying DS/GBA games) play music and movies, and have PDA functionality. They also allow users to play NES, SNES, etc games on them as well.

Many of these cards sell for $80+ (or do once you add the removable flash memory). If they were smart, they would take a page from the Wii's online service, sell a cartridge for $20 that allows you to buy and download old NES/SNES games with Nintento points like you can on the Wii. They could also sell a cartridge with a flash memory slot and allow it to do multimedia playback.

Re:But they wont achive much

[jamar0303]

In Japan, they do- it's called the Play-Yan. Strange that they don't try to sell it outside Japan.

Re:

[morgan_greywolf]

Many of these cards sell for $80+ (or do once you add the removable flash memory). If they were smart, they would take a page from the Wii's online service, sell a cartridge for $20 that allows you to buy and download old NES/SNES games with Nintento points like you can on the Wii. They could also sell a cartridge with a flash memory slot and allow it to do multimedia playback.

Maybe that's exactly what they plan on doing and that's why they are cracking down. The Nintendo folks are pretty smart. They lost the king of hill spot in the video console market to Sony and Microsoft mostly by being fat and lazy, not by being stupid. They've managed to maintain their lead in portable gaming, even despite the onslaught of PSP.

Re:

[prezkennedy.org]

The PSP isn't much of an onslaught.

Re:But they wont achive much

[Lumpy]

on the DS it is that simple. you can walk into any walmart and walk out with a DS cart that will play copied games.

Datel games-n-music DS. I got several japanese import copies playing on that device with a 1 gig micro SD card in it.

$25.00 at walmart. Warez for the masses.

Re:

[zerocool^]

I've just spent an hour looking on the web for information on this thing.

It would seem that it will NOT play any commercial DS roms, with very few exceptions. This is due to some weird limitation with the GnM where in order to play a rom, it needs to be able to be copied into the DS's RAM, which after loading the GnM stuff is around a measly 3.6 ~ 3.7 MB. Most DS roms are far bigger than this, even after being trimmed and compressed. The sole exception is supposedly Elf Bowling.

However, the GnM will appe

Re:

[Applekid]

The sad thing here is I think Nintento is missing the opportunity for a new product.

They're not missing the opportunity for a new product, they're reserving that new product for themselves.

During end-of-life of the SNES, they did exactly that in Japan. You bought a flash cartridge preloaded with a game and could then take it to a vending machine where you would insert it in a slot and buy a new game that was loaded into it. The biggest of those games was Rockman & Forte (which was also available in classic blown ROM cartridge format)

What I find particularly interesting is that while N

Re:But they wont achive much

[Phisbut]

Making stuff illegal just drives it further underground.

And driving it further underground makes it that much harder for Joe Sixpack to access, which is exactly what they want. Nintendo (or any other company hitting hard on pirates) aren't dumb. They know that piracy will always exist, but they want to drive it underground, really deep underground. So deep most people won't know about it.

Slashdot 10 year Party?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but notice that every article on the Main Page has been posted by ScuttleMonkey...where did everyone else go? Was there a party last night that Scuttlemonkey wasn't invited to?

It's a lose-lose.

[TripMaster Monkey]

If Nintendo is 0% successful at this, they will have wasted a lot of money and time for nothing.

If Nintendo is 100% successful, on the other hand, they will save some revenue, but at the cost of pissing off a lot of users, legitimate and otherwise, who might decide to take their business elsewhere.

Odds are pretty good that their actual success rate will fall somewhere between 0% and 100% (most probably close to the low end of the scale), making this endeavor slightly annoying to the users, while being in the main a big waste of time.

Any way you slice it, it's a dumb idea.

Re:

[ilovegeorgebush]

No it's not. They're chasing down copyright thieves who are violating the use of their software/hardware. If they shutdown one factory and seize (from the article):

more than 10,000 game copying devices and mod chips

then they've already made a win. Sure, if people are using these for legitimate means (i.e. making backup copies of their purchases) then they're hurting the good guys; but let's face it, the majority of mod users are breaking the law so they don't have to pay.

Don't get me wrong, I hate all

Re:It's a lose-lose.

[Anonymous Coward]

Copyright thieves? Who is falsely claiming copyright over the property of Nintendo? And what in the name of FSM does "violating the use of their software/hardware" mean? Surely if Nintendo have sold the hardware to others its not theirs anymore, and its up the new owner to decide what they do with it. Is owning property illegal? How did this scam come about whereby corporations sell stuff to you, then claim they still really own it - and the right to control what you can and cant do with it?

As near as I can tell, Nintendo are the ones actually stealing the physical property of others - chips, consoles, and a whole heap of stuff that isnt theirs. Fuck them and the corrupt legal system that helps them commit crimes against people.

Re:

[muffen]

I doubt it makes any difference. There are plenty of countries in the world where producing the modchips is not a crime, so the only thing this does is delays shipment of the stuff by a few weeks until someone else starts producing it in a country with (imho) sane laws.

As long as people are willing to pay for the modchips, there will be someone that produces them. Even if Nintendo managed to close down 90% of the modchip makers, the only result would be that the remaining 10% would produce more and earn

But it's CHINA!

[NealokNYU]

This is China we're talking about. It's not hard to find information about their almost total disacknowledgment of international copyright laws. Let's start with a Google search. [google.com]

Software piracy is the norm. You can acquire scandalously cheap, perfect-looking copies of everything from Office to Everquest for dirt cheap, i.e. cents, not dollars. The Chinese government has been remarkably slow in taking action to support the authority of nations seeking the enforcement of copyright laws, and while I doubt

Re:

[CastrTroy]

Does anybody else remember the story of somebody (in China I'm pretty sure) selling old Gamecube games in Wii packaging to make them look like new Wii games. That's the extent they go to for this piracy.

Re:

[SpeedyDX]

However it turns out, I'm just glad that I got my R4 [r4ds.com] from HK before the crackdown happened.

Re:

[jamar0303]

This is just HK. They haven't touched the mainland yet, which is, as we know, the manufacturing center for damn near everything.

Misread that..

[EveryNickIsTaken]

Heh. I misread the first sentence as:

Nintendo is cracking down on mod chips and copying devices with the help of the Donkey Kong government.

Need more coffee.

You can't do anything but admire...

[toQDuj]

...the way this article is spun.

Yes, mod chips could be used for illegal activities, but also for good. The article really fails to highlight that. With a tone like this, you'd wonder how tape recorders ever got sold.

B.

The way this article really reads

[SmallFurryCreature]

He, I can mod my Wii? Never knew that, thanks.

You would be suprised how many people learn about filesharing from the medias attack on it.

Re:

[dattaway]

I used a mod chip to flash DSLinux on my Nintendo DS. I just wanted a small computer that I can play with, not to play commercial games. If Nintendo cracks down too much, the community is going to be a much stronger.

Re:

[toQDuj]

This whole zoning system is fucked up anyway. Wasn't it Sony that abandoned the zoning for the PS3? As for your case, it sounds like they want you to buy a US Wii besides your Japanese Wii, for playing US games. Hell, I think you're lucky that the TV signals are even compatible, otherwise you had to buy a Japanese TV for the Japanese Wii and a US Wii for your US TV :).

B.

Re:

[beatmania]

Well, being absolutely, 100% honest, it's also not fair to expect ME, as the CUSTOMER to simply do nothing (or buy another Wii here in the USA) because Nintendo made a poor marketing decision when they decided to region lock their console.

Re:

[toQDuj]

I don't know where you got the flamebait tag from, I think it's undeserved.

Yes, Nintendo should pursue their rights. But they should not quash the rights of the owner in doing so. I think if they had a "backup" option, or a method of putting their games on harddisk and plying it from the harddisk, that the back-up rights would be preserved. Doing away with this zoning system also gives the owner one less reason to meddle with the innards.

You might fear people copying their friend's disk onto harddisk, and s

Chasing users?

[ilovegeorgebush]

I've always wondered if those that use R4 cards [r4ds.com] (I don't have one) for the DS and play online are at risk of being caught and having their doors knocked down by the SS..err I mean Police. Surely they're logging users and have means of identifying legitimate/illegitimate users?

Re:Chasing users?

[FlopEJoe]

have means of identifying legitimate/illegitimate users

I'm assuming sarcasm but I've always wondered what is legitimate with the DS. You can use R4 (and others like it) to play movies, read ebooks, listen to music, and play homebrew your DS. That's hours of entertainment without touching an illegal, downloaded ROM or altering your rig in anyway. The R4 isn't like plopping an EPROM in a console or rerouting wires since it doesn't alter anything the DS was sold as... not even the firmware.

Then the step further, you can buy ROMs, dump them and, and put multiple games on your DS. Most would find the convenience in traveling without all the ROMs or the chance that your kid drops it down the air duct shaft. But is that legitimate to Nintendo? Seems the same as ripping my own CDs and putting them on my MP3 player.

Re:

[tepples]

I'm assuming sarcasm but I've always wondered what is legitimate with the DS.

I'm guessing that Nintendo's plan is for homebrewers to stop playing with the DS and buy a Windows Mobile device to hack on.

Re:

[jamar0303]

How? Once the game is loaded into the card's RAM, for all the DS knows it's just a regular DS game card. There's no other way for those to work (not sure about the ones that used to run from the GBA slot, though, but we're talking about the R4).

"Blatant Stealing."

[Aladrin]

"It can destroy years of hard work by a team of very talented software developers, who strive to create games consumers enjoy playing."

It -can-, but it doesn't. Instead, it allows people that don't have the money to buy the game to play it anyhow, and get their friends excited, and get them interested in sequels and spinoffs. Instead of forcing the penniless gamer to go out and play in the yard for free, it keeps them addicted to video games.

On the other hand, people that -can- afford the games buy them, for the most part. I'm not talking the teenagers that have to skip lunch this month to buy a game, but the people with full-time jobs and disposable income.

And when it comes right down to it, the only difference between someone "stealing" a game using a modchip and that same person buying the game used is the timeframe. The developer doesn't get any money from either way. (Of course, GameStop gets some money on the used route, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.)

My current tactic? Rental. Any game I don't absolutely have to have right away, I just rent it. For 1/3 of a game per month, I can rent 2-4 by mail. For 3/4 of a game per month, I can rent 4-8. Since I lose interest in most games after a few hours anyhow, this works great for me. I've had some games that I thought I'd love that I spent less than an hour playing them before they were back in the mail. GameFly (and probably other services) will even let you buy the game at a reduced price if you want to keep it. That makes it really hard to justify buying it brand new.

So in the end, Nintendo can rid the market of these devices and it won't change things for the better. That isn't their goal, though. Their goal is to remind people that they are illegal and 'wrong'. And they did that.

Re:

[Technician]

I'm not talking the teenagers that have to skip lunch this month to buy a game, but the people with full-time jobs and disposable income.

Incorrect assumption on those with a full-time job. Many with full time jobs are the working poor. Their disposable income was spent years ago while they lived in their parrents basement. Now they have full time mortguages, phone bills, credit card bills, tuition loans... Those with a debt load of $50,000 or more shouldn't be buying $50 videogames. I don't have any co

Re:

[Aladrin]

What assumption? Read it again. I said 'people with full-time jobs and disposable income.' I didn't say people that have full-time jobs HAVE disposable income, I said those with both.

It should come of no surprise to anyone that people with no disposable income don't buy luxury items. It's pretty obvious.

Re:

[Technician]

Sounds like you need a better job, or you need to budget a little bit better.

The job is fine. My wife is working on her Masters. The budget was fine until we adopted kids with problems. 1 year later at boarding school for emotionaly challanged kids with eating disorders, we now have the $65,000 bill. Life does have expensive options. The kid is doing fine now.

The options were;
1 was to wait for domestic violence to burn down the house.
2 was get into a program to fix the problem.
3 kill the kid and let the

What rental service though?

[vlad_petric]

I've tried GameFly in the states, and had nothing but trouble with them (somehow quite a few games got lost in mail ... OTOH I had no trouble with a parallel Netflix subscription. WTF?). Almost all mail-driven rental services in the States have really poor ratings and come with similar horror stories.

Re:

[brkello]

Wow...what a rosy little world you live in. Pirating games means that everyone is going to make great profit! Pirates are such nice people that when they don't pay for a game and like it they become an advertising agency that just pours money in to the company. It also keeps these pirates off the streets where they would be causing trouble. I never knew how fantastic pirating could be!

Fact of the matter is...if companies don't at least make some attempt to make it difficult to pirate something, then

Re:

[RyoShin]

You can argue that those who steal games wouldn't buy them in the first place, but then why steal them? Why get something that doesn't have value? Okay, you can extend that to say this is true for those below the poverty line, and I'd agree, but we both know that is not only poor people that pirate. I'd think that some (more than a tiny fraction) of those who pirate can afford (or at least save without much effort) and would buy the game if it was the only way, but would rather be cheap/fight "the man" and

Speaking of scrathed disks

[wannabegeek2]

I've not made a habit of backing up CD / DVD media based games or content, primarily due to the hassle. For the adult stuff my wife and I are careful enough with the disks that the risk of the disk becoming damaged through normal use is reasonably low. (read as not worth the hassle and cost of obtaining technically illegal software and quality media)

An incident last weekend however has me reconsidering my current practices, at least where my kids CDs, DVDs and games are concerned.

Over the course of the last few years I've had to use the furniture polish trick on a few game CDs. Usually after one of the kids left them sliding around in a drawer and the PS2 or 'puter couldn't read them anymore. With I think one exception, so far I've been lucky and they've all be playable.

Last weekend however my son had a friend over for cooperative HALO3 fest. On the second evening they're setting up the friends system when my son decides to "stand up XBox so it can get some cooling". After this the system says the disk is unreadable, and it's discovered that their is a perfectly circular series of scratches about a quarter inch from the out edge and an eighth of an inch wide.

After multiple attempts with the furniture polish and toothpaste tricks I finally get the disk to read. I have NO doubt I'll be buying the young man a new HALO3 disk in the near future.

The moral of the story?

It should be EASY and LEGAL to make backups of your media. It doesn't matter whether it is music, a video or a game!

    Oh, by the way, anyone have any favorite, tried and true, game disk restoration tips? :-)

Re:Speaking of scrathed disks

[FlopEJoe]

For the adult stuff my wife and I

Your lucky... I wish my GF liked pr0n :(

Re:

[xtracto]

Your lucky... I wish my GF liked pr0n :(

I'll give you a tip, it depends on what kind of porn. I know that in stores like Ann Summers they sell "adult movies" which are "suitable" for girls, or at least, they like them. You could always also start with "Pirates" which has a pretty funny story.

Btw, the first porn movie I saw with my girlfriend (we had a really good time as the movie is hilarious these days) was Deep Throat (the original). My GF got interested after the documentary was released, so I got it an

Re:Speaking of scrathed disks

[Kiuas]

Your lucky... I wish my GF liked pr0n :(

Your lucky, this is Slashdot after all... Most of us just wish we had a girlfriend :(

Re:

[Alaria Phrozen]

I thought they give instructions on how to receive a replacement disc for like the cost of shipping and maybe $5? It's in the back of the manual of every game you buy. I've done this with multiple computer games, even 5+ year old titles like Descent 3.

Re:

[muffen]

Last weekend however my son had a friend over for cooperative HALO3 fest. On the second evening they're setting up the friends system when my son decides to "stand up XBox so it can get some cooling". After this the system says the disk is unreadable, and it's discovered that their is a perfectly circular series of scratches about a quarter inch from the out edge and an eighth of an inch wide.

Had this happen to a few discs, and just so you know you probably dont have to buy a new disc.
Those machines th

Typical lies

[foreverdisillusioned]

The devices seized are used to copy and play Nintendo DS games offered unlawfully over the Internet, and the mod chips allow the play of pirated Wii discs or illegal copies of downloaded Nintendo game

They're also used to play games that aren't available for sale in the USA (and won't run on a North American Wii even if you import them legally), and they're used to play legal ("Fair Use") backups of game discs that have been damaged.

All of you MAFIAA shills can whine "oh but that's not what you guys are REALLY using them for!" all you want, but my both my sister and my girlfriend like Japanese date sims (weird, yes), and I've known several people who've had a game disc damaged beyond playability--usually by dogs or small children.

Likewise

[Nursie]

I have a "hacked" ps2 (softmod, not hardmod, using HD Advance) and use it to store games on the HD. The advantage? No more scratches and wrecked disks, no more worn out lasers and much faster loading times (in game it makes a huge difference). It also allows me to play out of region games.

I'm not a pirate, so leave me the hell alone.

Re:

[Doctor_Jest]

Nintendo's "bait and switch" region-coding scheme should be enough to piss off even the staunchest nintendo supporter...

"We're going region-free!" (and the crowd rejoiced)

"Wait, scratch that... we're not..." (and the crowd missed the announcement)

I'd have felt better if they'd have kept it to themselves... but it was most likely just an "also-ran" press release to keep in the news... (all too quickly retracted.)

Meh... that really annoys me to no end.. Their motive? Regional pricing is all I can think of.

Re:

[rabiddeity]

I'll back you up, except that I go the other way. I have a Japanese Wii that I've bought here in Japan. Sometimes I want to play a game that I see on the shelf at the local stores. But sometimes I just want to sit down and play a game in English. Unfortunately, since Nintendo released their system region locked, a mod chip is the only way I can reasonably do that. If the MAFIAA broke down my door today, they'd find a chipped Wii and a bunch of legally purchased Japanese and US games, and no "backups".

Re:

[jamar0303]

I don't think you adressed the issue he was talking about, though. Doesn't matter how sturdy the disc is if it's region-locked to Japan and he wants to play on an American Wii. And no, buying another Wii is not an acceptable solution.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[jamar0303]

BTW- I think PD stands for Public Domain, correct?

Re: What kind of excuse is this? - This one!

[gabrieltss]

My family owns an original Nintendo NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo64, Nintendo Gamecube, and a Nintendo Gameboy Advanced. We are a Nintendo specific game family. We have purchased litterly hundreds of ORIGINAL cartridges and CD's for these systems that totals up to A LOT of money spent. I was able to get ahold of a Super Wildcard for my super nintendo a few years back and yes I did backup ALL my cartridges for my Super Nintendo and I am glad I did. I now have two that won't work anymore becuase the contacts on the cartridge are so worn. Even cleaning them didn't help. Do you know how HARD it is to find OLD nintendo cartridges to replace them? Even GameStop is slowly phasing out nintendo stuff to put in more XCrock shit! I don't own an XBox, I WON'T own an XBox. I'm starting to think Microsoft bought up GameStop too. At least I can still play my LEGALLY purchased Super Nintendo games on ZNes on the PC in Linux. At this rate I don't know if I will buy a Wii. Anyone know of a legit place that won't rip you off to purchase backup devices for the old nintendo NES, nintendo64's and gamecubes. I have one gamecube Cd that is starting to have problems now too! I want to be able to LEGALLY backup my games damit! Fuck the RIAA, MPAA, Nintedo et al.. If I won't be allowed to backup up my LEGALLY purchased stuff I won't be doing anymore purchasing. It will save me a lot of money at least and less in the pockets of the media outlets that seem to think it is their god given right to get my money!

My thought is that the game console makers should produce their own game backup units that would allow you to legally backup your games. Even if it put like a serial number into the backup of the game so it could be traced back to the original owner if they decided to "pirate" them. This I think would protect BOTH the consumer and the media outlets rights. The consumer could legally backup his legally purchased media and if they gave out a copy to someone else and the meida outlet found a copy floating around they could trace it back to whoomever gave it out and prosecute them. Simple I think.

At least I have my old Amiga 2000 system and all the tons of games I bought for it. Oh that's right I am glad I made backup copies of those too so I could play them on UAE under Linux on my PC, since my Amiga 2000 floppy drive died and try to get a replacement for one of those!

Starting to see the LEGITIMATE need for backup software/devices??????

Re:

[Shados]

I definately do. For all 4 of you that will use these devices legitimately. The line between something legitimate and something thats not is in how people use it. If the vast majority uses it for something legitimate, then no law will be written against it, and it will stay legitimate. If the vast majority doesn't, well....

Thats why butterknives are mostly legal everywhere. If everyone started to use bufferknives as weapons, actions would be taken against em. Everything's legal (even murder!) until too many

Homebrew development earned me a career

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in high school, I bought a Flash2Advance for gobs and gobs of money because I wanted to play NES games on my Gameboy Advance. I did that for a few days, and then got sick of it. A few months later I decided to try my hand at GBA game development, and made a few demos and a complete game over the course of a few months. I entered the game in a Homebrew GBA competition and got an honorable mention... My parents thought it was the biggest waste of money and for a while I did too, until three years later when I mentioned it on my resume. I got a job at an embedded engineering company, and my boss later told me that the whole reason they called me in for an interview was because of they downloaded my GBA game and tried it out. Before that I had never even heard of "embedded engineering," and now it is my passion and specialty.

I never thought a $500 video game would change the direction of my life, but I will never doubt that homebrew is great. Certainly it can be used to steal games, but it is also one of the cheapest and most effective ways for a novice programmer to get into a booming industry. And, yes, developing for emulators is also valid, but testing on real hardware was an invaluable experience that an emulator cannot replicate.

Region Codes

[kisrael]

I might be on Nintendo's side for stuff like this if it wasn't for the #$&(U@#$ region lock codes.

Re:Region Codes

[kisrael]

Yeah, but Nintendo does it too.

The current bee in my bonnet is the way they cancelled a US version of Puzzle Collection for GC.
So the only reason I have a Free Loader is to play that damn game.

And I guess I still don't buy it. As long as the publishers don't publish in places where they don't have copyright, do they really care if someone can play the software there? So that means we're at least 3 steps removed from the people who might care.

If you don't provide for backup/homebrew/etc...

[sjonke]

... you get piracy. We have a modchip in our Gamecube and primarily (by far) it is used for homebrew, backups of our purchased games (sorry, but I do think I should be allowed to backup our purchased games), and to play games from other regions (region-coding is extremely irritating and stupid - why make it hard for us to buy and play games we want to play?) Have I ever downloaded a game ("pirated")? Yes, I have. I've only done it a handful of times, and have always ended up tossing it out (or buying the game), but none-the-less, when the possibility is there, you're bound to try it at some point. And some will continue to do it and won't toss out their pirated games.

If Nintendo et. al. provided a means for backing up games, free tools for developing and running homebrew (or for a very nominal fee), and eliminated region-coding, then modchips wouldn't be necessary for these legitimate purposes, and there wouldn't be the temptation to try pirating games at all. They choose not to provide these things. Wouldn't it be easier and less costly to them to provide this stuff? It would also make customers happy.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[toQDuj]

Yup, but not in the rest of the world.

So I still don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to use these mod chips and play their copied games here.

Re:

[Junior J. Junior III]

So don't crack the encryption; just copy the encrypted text, and let the authorized decryption device do its job with your perfectly legitimate encrypted backup copy.

Re:

[Tim C]

It's not just media hype, it's been US law since 1998.

Last time I checked Hong Kong was Chinese-governed, not American.

You're right, but it's kind of beside the point; the rest of us don't (yet) have to deal with that particular unjust law.

Re:Booo!

[Eccles]

We have Bill fucking Clinton to thank for that.

Uh, didn't it pass the Senate with 99-1 votes for vs. against? It wasn't particularly Bill Clinton's baby. Not that he would have vetoed it even if the vote was closer, but there are few politicians out there that show much opposition to increasing copyright restrictions. And Rich Boucher isn't running for president.

Re:

[tbannist]

On the one hand, you should actually be "thanking" Bruce Lehman [slashdot.org] for the DMCA, and even he knows (now) that it is a terrible failure.

On the other, I'm glad that your right to copy songs is so much more important to you than your right to Habeas Corpus [wikipedia.org]. We can clearly see where your priorities lie!

Re:

[ozmanjusri]

I think we have bigger problems as well as the DMCA.

Fixed that for you.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Junior J. Junior III]

That's OK; in another generation or so, physical media will be a thing of the past, and instead of shipping a "thing" that you use to install/load the game, everything will be digitally distributed over broadband, "software as a service" will be the business model, and you'll either rent playing time or have a monthly subscription fee. Backups will be limited to your account data, and will be automatic as the information will be housed on their datacenter, but you won't truly own the data beyond the right

Re:

[CastrTroy]

No, you won't be able to sell achievements, because the achievements will be tied to a key unique to your device. So, you could sell the device itself, but then you'd be selling all your achievements.

Re:

[Mathinker]

In such a consumer dystopia, I'd think that open-source games would start to gain a foothold in the old off-line, infinitely replayable niche, and eventually the proprietary game producers might partially return to produce games for that niche. Look, we're not talking MS vs. Linux here, you don't use games to run all the other programs on your computer.

Of course, by that time widespread use of computers as general purpose computational platforms might be dead, so the open-source games couldn't compete (e.g.

Re:

[Sockatume]

The legendary Stuart Campbell interviewed ELSPA's (Europe's ESRB, basically) then-boss on the grey legality of backup devices ages ago. His stance was that you buy a single copy of the physical medium, and that's it - regardless of the law, and what many game manuals say ("this product is licenced, not sold...") they were going to prohibit all of the consumers's copyrights. Asked what customers should do when, by no fault of their own, the physical medium becomes unusable, he unrepentantly said they were st

Well it can be fixed.

[Shivetya]

The requirement should be, create a back up copy for the end user which cannot be used; easily; by anyone else. Granted many companies won't like that either but it may be easier to keep it off their radar if the system truly doesn't make it easy to just copy and distribute paid content.

The problem comes down to the fact that the "innocent" users are being lumped together with the abusers. Yet who do people bitch about? The company being negatively affected. Do you know people who have pirated games? H

one word: Evaluation

[mu22le]

I am not a gamer, I can count on one hand the number of games I actually completed. I get easily bored and only keep play if the game is really amazing me.

I actively pirate games and I am looking forward to mod my new wii because there is no way I am going to spend 60 euros for a game I play for 3 times and then forget about. If I really like a game I usually end up buying it sooner or later, even if I pirated it the first time. Most games cost too much and are total crap, if I could not download and try th

Re:

[PhoenixFlare]

And personal backups of your own media so that you don't have to buy a new copy when your friend/pet/child/"significant other" scratches it.

If that's what you would do, then great, but i'll bet you anything it wasn't what the people they seized this stuff from had in mind - I'm sure it makes a comforting thought to the vast majority that use mod chips and such to play "backups" of games they never bought, though.

Sucks for our rights, I agree, but the reality is that most people just want obscenely cheap/fre

Re:

[jamar0303]

Or, you know, people who use modchips to play legit games that won't run due to idiotic region-lock (Euro players buying US games, for instance- because you honestly aren't going to get one Wii for every region, are you?).

Re:

[PhoenixFlare]

Again, not saying you can't find legitimate purposes, but I think trying to pass that off as the majority use is extremely debatable.

Re:

[delinear]

Well then companies could resolve both these issues by:

1) Offering free replacement media for disks which will no longer play due to scratches/warping (these could be offered via standard retail outlets so there is no issue of "Send us your disk and wait 3 months for a response", which could then be another legitimate reason to make your own backup). Media is cheap and if you can show proof of purchase, what's the issue for not issuing a replacement, other than greed?

2) NOT imposing region locks - in this d

Re:

[shawn(at)fsu]

And personal backups of your own media so that you don't have to buy a new copy when your friend/pet/child/"significant other" scratches it.

Yeah that or... you could learn to start taking care of your stuff in the first place. I lost a few CD's to scratches when I was a kid. My parents never said, well you should have made a back up copy, they were more apt to say "GD it! When are you going to learn to take care of the stuff we buy you", so fast forward a decade later and how many DVD's or games have a lost

Re:

[jamar0303]

There are some accidents you just can't prevent, such as those caused by drunkenness, but I think reinstating Prohibition is a bit much. That, and no amount of grounding your kid for destroying a disk will bring it back.

Re:

[Trelane]

I lost a few CD's to scratches when I was a kid. My parents never said, well you should have made a back up copy, they were more apt to say "GD it! When are you going to learn to take care of the stuff we buy you", so fast forward a decade later and how many DVD's or games have a lost to scratches. None.

You had mediocre parents and have had the good fortune (thus far) to be in complete control of your stuff. Not everyone (e.g. Greensboro KS, Louisiana, and various random people who've been burgled or rob

Re:Booo!

[toleraen]

You had mediocre parents and have had the good fortune (thus far) to be in complete control of your stuff. Not everyone (e.g. Greensboro KS, Louisiana, and various random people who've been burgled or robbed) is so lucky.

Having/maintaning good backups is part of "taking care of your stuff."

Please provide a method on how to backup my TV, my couch, my oven, etc, so when I'm robbed I'm good to go. Oh wait, that's right, it's called home owner's insurance, which applies to everything you own (as long as you chose to cover it). When my wife's apartment burned down I had my PS2 games back within a week. Backups are for irreplaceable information, not material goods.

Re:Booo!

[Trelane]

Please provide a method on how to backup my TV, my couch, my oven, etc, so when I'm robbed I'm good to go.

Sorry, physical goods and electronic goods are not the same. Now, when you have a matter compiler, we can talk more about it.

Oh wait, that's right, it's called home owner's insurance, which applies to everything you own (as long as you chose to cover it).

Yes, homeowner's (and renter's) insurance is a fallback for some major disasters like I outlined. However, there are caveats:

• It covers stuff when it's in your home (What about your DS games or CDs or whatever? Remember, O Strong Copyrighter, that making MP3s of your CDs are illegal--you must use the original media!)
• It usually has a considerable deductible.
• Your insurance agent will ding you (i.e. raise premiums) when you take it, so you have to choose carefully when you cover a loss, so a minor theft is most likely in your pockets, not theirs. (In fact, they will drop you if you file too many claims!)
• Flooding can and will happen, but flood insurance is a separate (and costly!) option to add. Say you're in a 500-year flood plain (most places are in some sort of flooding area; the question is how often it occurs). The chances of you getting flooded any time in the near future are small. Would you elect to pay the (rather costly) insurance for everything, or just a set of things (which likely excludes games and music)? Why pay extra if you could back it up?
• Choosing to cover stuff is a trade-off. You can cover more (and increase premiums) or cover less (and decrease premiums). So you're saying we should have to increase premiums, because backing up a CD should be prohibited?!

So your reasoning to ban all backing up of your legally-acquired copies of music, games, movies, etc. is because you can get insurance which may or may not completely cover the loss (if you chose to pay the higher premiums to get the coverage), if it covers the loss at all?. I'm afraid I just don't agree with you.

Re:

[Just Some Guy]

Please provide a method on how to backup my TV, my couch, my oven, etc, so when I'm robbed I'm good to go.

Good point. I am now ripping the tape drive out of my server because if I can't make backups of my kitchen table then I shouldn't be allowed to make backups of my home directory.

Does your logic truly make sense to you, or are you just being an ass for the sake of it?

Re:

[Graftweed]

Making backup copies for your own use falls well within fair use of the media you just bought. The only people who don't seem to think so are those who have been brainwashed by the media at large to think it's somehow a crime to safeguard your investment in a product that isn't exactly cheap.

But in any case not everyone keeps their media in a hallowed shrine, never to be touched by others, like you apparently do. People have friends, who sometimes also handle the media. I'm not going to be all prissy if s

Re:

[gEvil (beta)]

And what exactly does your nice strawman argument have to do with taking care of your crap?

Re:

[maxume]

Nothing, but in a world where it is (from a technical standpoint) trivial to duplicate digital media, banning said duplication because forcing people to take care of their things because it is a good moral character builder is insane. I like to examine insanity, so I asked the OP a question designed to elicit further insanity.

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

And personal backups of your own media so that you don't have to buy a new copy when your friend/pet/child/"significant other" scratches it.

While I agree on the Wii discs, the truth of the matter is that it is probably illegal to backup DS chips. According to the decision of Atari v. JS&A [patentarcade.com], backups are only authorized when they're necessary to protect against "mechanical or electrical failure" of the cartridge. Given that DS media is similarly sturdy, a US court would be likely to rule in the same manner

Re:

[jamar0303]

I think that my cartridge falling apart due to faulty construction counts, but apparently it doesn't happen enough to be significant.

Re:

[jamar0303]

Ture, it should be. But, I've been accused of deliberately trying to pull the cartridge apart (why would I do such a thing?) when trying to do that warranty replacement. Then again, I live in China- I get punished for buying a genuine game, whereas the small independent vendors were all too happy to help get me up and running with my SuperCard on my DS Lite (they pre-loaded a Japanese-Korean-English dictionary, a program for learning Chinese, and a copy of Apollo Justice- best game in the Ace Attorney serie

R4

[tepples]

In the case of DS games, that somewhat depends on whether or not these chips are the ones used by homebrewers.

Yes, the R4 card that's popular with pirates is the same R4 card that's popular with homebrew users and even developers such as myself [pineight.com]. Likewise, on PCs, pirates and legit users use the same DVD burners.

Re:Booo!

[Von Helmet]

I'd bet a lot of money that use of these devices for the purpose of personal backups pales in comparison to their use for playing copied games.

Sure, it's a bitch, especially as I was hoping to pick up an R4 for Homebrew purposes, but you've got to admit that Nintendo have a point with this.

Colors!

[tepples]

I'd bet a lot of money that use of these devices for the purpose of personal backups pales in comparison to their use for playing copied games.

Some people on the gbadev.org forums have stated that they bought a DS and a homebrew card just to use Colors! [collectingsmiles.com]. So I have only one thing to say about your assertion: Citation needed.

Re:

[Von Helmet]

The entire forum membership at gbadev.org is just over 9000 i.e. less than the number of devices siezed from one factory. Even allowing for the Wii chips included in that figure, I think it's fair to say that "some" of 9000 is markedly less than the number of R4s et al being used for illegal purposes.

That being said, thanks for making me aware of that colors thing. I'll be picking that up if and when I find myself an R4.

Re:

[Wordsmith]

It doesn't matter that only a few people use the devices for legitimate purposes. What matters is that legitimate purposes exist.

Re:

[dr_d_19]

Why?

I can hold my Wii (no pun intended) in one hand and a disc containing a game in the other. But unless the creator of the game has payed Nintendo, I'm unable to play the game in a console for which I've paid. Why is that?

Copyright infringement is one thing, but limiting the use of something I've bought in order increase income in something else.

Do whatever you want with the pirates, but allow me to use what I've paid for damnit.

Re:

[ThirdPrize]

Trouble is that there is no physical difference between your "back up" and a copied version of the game. One may come on a dodgily photoshopped CD but they are essentially the same (as the original). You probably even have the serial written on the front as well.

The software industry is slowly realising that the concept of selling physical CDs and of those being of some worth is a joke. It is what is on the CDs that matters and that can be copied with ease. Eventually everything will be downloaded via S

Re:

[jamar0303]

They haven't done such a thing so far, thank goodness. The latest firmware works fine with modded Wiis.

Re:

[jamar0303]

Oh. Well, I suppose I was talking out my rear then- I only play Japan-region Wii games on my Japanese Wii- the mod is something I use for my American Gamecube games (which work without issues).

Re:Soooo much homebrew

[jamar0303]

Yep- I use DSOrganize and MoonShell on mine. Makes a decently priced MP3 player. I am guilty of pirating games too, though- mainly because I live in China and the DSes are region-locked to only play Chinese games (of which there are less than 10) due to some idiotic decision. But, they left the GBA slot completely unprotected, because the GBA game library consists mainly of fan-translated games flashed onto blank cartridges and sold commercially; from big department stores to small street vendors, none of them are official.

Re:

[dbIII]

I'm sorry, but to all those who say that they're using their mod-chips for legitimate purposes: who are you trying to fool?

DS Linux, DSorganise and other assorted homebrew makes the perfectly legit Mario Kart machine just a little bit more useful for one example.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I own the fucking hardware. I put a modchip on it if I fucking want, fer crying outloud.
Nintendo[or]Sony[or]Microsoft sold the console to you. The hardware, after the sale, is not theirs, it's yours to do whatever the fuck you want to.

Re:

[jamar0303]

I don't really care so much about discs breaking, I care about perfectly good games not working simply because of an arbitrary decision not to allow games bought in Japan to play in consoles from the US (Wii). So far, none of the anti-modchip people have adressed that.

Re:

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

I don't really care what people use them for. Nintendo simply should not have the right to stop people from producing their own hardware.

Re:

[jgoemat]

If you were actually serious about being worried that your game would break, you simply would have gone to GameStop or Toys'R'Us or the local equivalent and gotten one of their game warranties.

Which does little good for the saved games it's taken you hundreds of hours to create. With the R4 and M3 DS Simply, you can backup all your games and saved game files by dragging them to your hard drive. You also can play any of your games and not have to carry around and swap out all of your cartridges. The R4