EVE Online's Linux/Mac Client Goes Live Tuesday

The official EVE Online site has details of upcoming patch 'Revelations 2.3'. Along with a number of bug-fixes to the PvP-focused Massively Multiplayer Online Game, this game fix will offer up compatibility with Mac OS X and Linux. Though the Mac client is a native port, Linux will require the used of Cedega. The post suggests that if you'd like a preview of what the game will be like on your rig, you can download the client and tool around the test server. System requirements are also listed, as are the distributions of Linux they are specifically supporting: Ubuntu 7+, Suse 10+, and Linspire 6. Update: 11/04 14:32 GMT by Z : Fixed implication of native Linux client.

So long GPA....

[lordofthechia]

Oh god... no...why? Crap, the only thing that has kept me from trying that game was the lack of a linux port. And Tuesday? Lets see 3 weeks before finals.... Well it's official, I'm switching to business.

Re:So long GPA....

[kcbanner]

Its not a linux port. They simply packaged Cedega with EVE. I wish people would stop praising them for that...its not a native client.

Re:

[Spit]

Honestly, what difference does it make to you whether a closed binary is compiled against Windows or Linux APIs? If the software runs well, there is no difference except in your head.

Re:So long GPA....

[cloricus]

Compare EVE Online under WINE (currently performs slightly better than Cedega at running eve) to Doom 3.

Oh you wanted more to this comment? Guess you honestly don't understand the difference between native and the limitations of compatibiliy layers. There is simply no comparison to a native supported application.

Re:

[Lonewolf666]

The EVE client is slow even under Windows.

In the "Guristas Treasure Hold" in Friggi the older of my two PCs (P4 2.4 GHz, Radeon 9600 Pro, 1 GByte RAM) has significant lag. Entering the same complex with my newer PC shows better performance on a slower DSL line. So it is obviously not a network problem but a client side performance problem.

Any well programmed FPS game has better graphics performance ;-)

Re:

[Maserati]

Client performance in large fights is due for an upgrade by the end of the year, The Trinity v2 update is supposed to offload an awful lot of the processing to the GPU, plus the new engine is specifically designed to handle fleet engagements better. We can only hope it really pays off.

Re:

[rustalot42684]

Wine Is Not an Emulator. Programs running with wine do run natively. Read their Web Sight - the section on debunking WINE myths.

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

He said compatibility layer. Which means that when the programs try to call the Windows API they're actually calling the WINE API which then calls the relevant Linux functions. Which is slower than the API itself.

Re:

[Goaway]

Says the man with square HTML tags.

Re:

[cheater512]

Its effectively the same yes but native Linux ports are usually somewhat faster than running the same game on the same rig under Windows.
Using Wine throws away the benefits of Linux's superior video and audio libraries due to overhead.
The gameplay is similar to using it on Windows ironically.

Re:

[cheater512]

Yeah the difference isnt massive but Linux can add 5+ fps to a game.

Re:

[Bert64]

I wonder if vista widens the gap...

Re:

[EvilRyry]

Was that with Direct3d or OpenGL in Windows? There could be differences in the engine that could account for the difference instead of just the platform. The OpenGL engine could for instance be written better, or maybe have less detail that the Direct3D version. Typically speaking, I thought Windows typically had better framerates because the graphics drivers are in the kernel, and probably better tunned for most vendors. Or wine/Linux could just be faster...

Re:

[ultranova]

Typically speaking, I thought Windows typically had better framerates because the graphics drivers are in the kernel, and probably better tunned for most vendors. Or wine/Linux could just be faster...

Linux graphics drivers are in the kernel too. That's one of the reasons why it's such a huge hassle when they're closed source.

Re:So long GPA....

[kripkenstein]

Its not a linux port. They simply packaged Cedega with EVE. I wish people would stop praising them for that...its not a native client.

Sure, a native port would be better, but this is still a step in the right direction. They deserve *some* praise for it.

If it lets a few more people not have to dual-boot into Windows to play games, then they are doing something right. Hopefully this will grow the non-Windows gaming market enough so that eventually native clients *are* released for Linux / Mac.

And as for Cedega not being truly open-sourced, and the games themselves certainly not, well, as a Linux desktop user and FOSS supporter this bothers me. But the fact is, at this point in time hardcore games are mostly a closed-source environment, whether on a console or a PC. Games are different than most typical desktop apps for various reasons. Hopefully in the future this will change, but meanwhile lots of Linux users want to play games, so this announcement is positive news.

Re:

[TheThiefMaster]

Cedega isn't open-source, but they contribute back to wine, which is.

CCP paid for significant work on Cedega (and so wine) for EVE to run.
They changed their own code to improve compatibility.
As a result, you can now run EVE on wine, if you don't want to use the Cedega packaged client.

Re:

[InvisiBill]

Cedega isn't open-source, but they contribute back to wine, which is.

CCP paid for significant work on Cedega (and so wine) for EVE to run.
They changed their own code to improve compatibility.
As a result, you can now run EVE on wine, if you don't want to use the Cedega packaged client.

No, Cedega doesn't generally contribute back to Wine. The two are basically completely separate projects now. http://www.winehq.org/?issue=329#Cedega%206.0%20&%20Wine%20Benchmarks [winehq.org]

Here's the facts you need to know about Wine & Cedega:

• Cedega's core is based off the original Wine tree and was forked in 2002. There are several core components that no longer share a similarity with Wine as it exists today.
• TransGaming has not actively contributed to Wine in about 5 years with the exception of a few patches (less than 5 a year.)

Re:

[TheThiefMaster]

However, EVE does now run on Wine.

Re:

[jsebrech]

Its not a linux port. They simply packaged Cedega with EVE. I wish people would stop praising them for that...its not a native client.

The question is: does it matter? If it runs just fine (as well as on windows), and it integrates with the OS (launch menus, hardware recognition, ...), does it matter that it's not a "native" version?

Re:So long GPA....

[Dwindlehop]

Correction: They simply packaged Cedega with EVE for no additional cost. You don't have to subscribe to Cedega in order to play Eve. That's the important distinction.

Re:

[cloricus]

This isn't a port, it is the windows client wrapped in transgamings cedega.

EVE Online has been working nicely under Cedega for around a year and a half now, under WINE for around a year, and under Crossover for around six months. Honestly if you really want to play this game under Linux or Mac you are spoilt for choice as this new Cedega wrapper and Crossover both offer seamless install and at least in Crossovers case almost seamless game play.

Hopefully this will help EVE Onlines large L

Wow!

[seebs]

WoW, really.

I know a lot of people who play WoW. All of us play it, across a mix of Windows and WINE and other systems, because one person we know had a Mac. We wanted to play together, so all of us went with WoW, even though some other games sounded interesting.

I hope the same thing happens for EVE, and they find a sales boost that goes beyond just the influx of Mac and Linux gamers.

(I won't be one of them; I have zero interest in PvP, or in playing a game which is built around real and lasting consequences for mistakes. I play a game like that about 14-18 hours a day already, and I want something different for my recreation.)

Re:Wow!

[dameron]

> I have zero interest in PvP, or in playing a game which is built around real and lasting consequences for mistakes.

WoW has "real" consequences for mistakes?

"Lasting", in a virtual world?

Bah.

I believe you're looking for an "activity". "Games" are for people ballsy enough to keep score.

Re:Wow!

[seebs]

No, WoW doesn't. EVE does. They keep bragging about how a minute's play can wipe out months of work. Not interesting to me. In WoW, I can lose an amount of money that will take me as much as an hour to earn back. No problem, I can cope.

Re:

[EotB]

I didn't think that the 'danger' aspect of the game would really appeal to me, but it gives you an amazing sense of consequence for your actions. I got bored with WoW and the repetitive PvE/BG grind where the worst that can happen is that you don't make progress (although arenas are a good start). In EVE, when they say you can lose a months worth of work in minutes, they mean it. Thats what makes the game unbelievably thrilling to play.

I can understand why that may be a little bit too risky to cope wi

Re:Wow!

[Antique Geekmeister]

If I wanted a minute's play to wipe out months of work, I'd just run my programs from a root account all the time. No need to take that kind of risk for fun.

Re:

[Kingrames]

Well, you must not have very much fun programming.

"Months of work"

[Per Abrahamsen]

> They keep bragging about how a minute's play can wipe out months of work.

I would never get that far, I refuse to play any game for which playtime feels like work.

Re:

[Rakshasa Taisab]

And in WoW you will have adrenaline rushes worthy of that one hour you'll have to spend earning back that money.

Re:

[xouumalperxe]

Actually as a combat rogue I have adrenaline rushes every 5 minutes, on demand.

Re:

[e1618978]

I just accidentally enchanted my boots with "+7 Agility" when I meant to use "+7 Stamina", wasting 90 gold in WoW. This would take me a week or so to earn back - so you just aren't trying hard enough to lose money in WoW.

Re:

[analog_line]

Get a group together and do all the pre-requisites for the Ogrila daily quests. Those, along with the ones up in Skettis will get you 50-60g per day for basically falling off a log.

Re:Wow!

[Sycraft-fu]

It won't, really. The Linux and Mac gaming markets aren't all that large, especially since in both cases the option always exists to boot to Windows if you really want to play games. EVE's small market share isn't due to its lack of cross platform, it is sue to its game design. They chose to make a very hardcore game. This really doesn't appeal to a lot of people since they find it to not be fun. As such, it is always going to be far more niche than World of Warcraft. One of the major reasons WoW was so much more popular than any other MMORPG before it is because Blizzard heavily took the attitude that a game isn't supposed to punish you for failure. It functioned more like a single player game, where failure means reloading a save and trying something again, rather than being set back a large distance.

So while I'm sure it will get a boost in sales (they wouldn't do it if they didn't think they'd make some money), it isn't likely to be that huge. The game simply appeals to a much more narrow group of people than WoW. WoW is one of those games that I'll recommend to anybody. I believe it is simple enough for anyone to learn to play, and anyone to find enjoyable. That is not true of many games, and EVE is certainly one it isn't true of. I'd only recommend that to people I know that are very intense gamers, and that can deal with the consequences for failure that game has.

Re:

[cloricus]

Interesting...I'm sure last time I looked Linux held around 5% of the desktop market, and Apple held a touch more. Oh and strangely enough Vista was sitting just under 5%. Guess those game makers developing for Vista must be out right mad in the head to go DX10 in a market that is saturated ... Or they could do dx9/opengl/sdl and develop for the 10% of the market that is completely untapped instead while still keeping the other 85% who use regular Windows as well.

Please think through what you say befor

Re:

[Loke the Dog]

I'm sure last time I looked Linux held around 5% of the desktop market

Hah! Where did you see that? In the logs of slashdot?

Re:

[Chandon Seldon]

Hah! Where did you see that? In the logs of slashdot?

I'm sure it's exactly where you saw the data that you're basing your "Ha!" reaction on - out of someone's ass.

The fact of the matter is that it's impossible to determine the exact overall installed base (which is different from market share) of the various operating systems - and even if you could the number would be meaningless for any of the stuff that you'd want to use it for (because the population distributions of subpopulations are different - the

Re:

[Loke the Dog]

Yes, in 2004, it was speculated linux would have a market share of 6% in 2007. I'm not sure what they mean by "market share" when linux is often not even sold, but anyways, I don't see how this is even relevant. Speculation from over 3 years ago is a bit weak.

Re:

[SL Baur]

The Linux and Mac gaming markets aren't all that large, especially since in both cases the option always exists to boot to Windows if you really want to play games.

I am so tired of this argument, especially when Microsoft Windows is justified by "Hey, you've got to have it to play games." WoW is a lot more fun with a Mac than Microsoft Windows XP and I hope the same is the case with EVE (though I won't play it, I'm no fan of PvP).

Go alternative platforms. Choice Is Good.

Re:

[Tom]

You are majorly deluding yourself.

The Mac gaming market is growing considerably, with all those people switching to Macs. Yes, most of them can dual boot, but know what, we don't want to. I haven't booted windos for weeks, and I refuse to buy windos games. But I will gladly buy a Mac game, one that I can just start up without having to boot and all that.

Same discussion as we've had with playing Linux games vs. dual-booting windos, with one crucial difference: Mac people are people who put their money where

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

Most of the grandmothers probably wouldn't notice Linux games and it's not like the geeks are moving away from Linux because grandmothers are switching.

Re:

[doomy]

When World of Warcraft alpha was given out to some of us there was a very alpha Linux client included. I have no idea why they dropped support for Linux back then. But it's probably due to driver support that was lacking.

Re:

[Skuld-Chan]

You could always vow to delete your character after he/she dies for the first time...

It uses Cedega on Linux

[kcbanner]

Its not a native client. It uses a stripped-down version of the commercial fork of the now-obsolete xwine (what with normal wine having most dx things now), Cedega. People have been running the eve online client under wine and cedega for years now, I can run it under wine and get better fps than windows in some cases :P.

Anyway, the point is that they didn't actually take the time to write a native client, its simply packaged with Cedega, so this isn't really anything to praise them for.
I just thought I'd mention that because they don't until it actually starts installing.

Re:It uses Cedega on Linux

[QuantumG]

If more games companies (*cough* Blizzard) would test their stuff with WINE and support it, we'd have a different PC industry.

Re:

[aztektum]

Wow, no shit. Thanks for illuminating that for me.

You know if more game companies (*cough* any of them) made native clients we'd have a different PC industry too.

Re:

[QuantumG]

It's a completely different proposition to ask a company to add another platform to their test set than it is to ask them to make a brand new build with a brand new part of the code tree just to support a minor platform. They already have to test WinXP and Vista (and maybe Win9x and WinME if they wanna support those south american markets), asking them to add WINE isn't that much of an ask.

Re:

[timmarhy]

you fail to understand that the problem isn't blizzard, it's directX, which currently doesn't 100% work under wine http://www.winehq.org/site/status_directx [winehq.org]

it's insane to expect blizzard to start supporting it's game on such an unpolished platform.

Also, MS provide very good tools for migrating your applications from XP to Vista. Can you say the same about Wine?

I have no doubt blizzard have looked at the numbers and found supporting a linux version to be unprofitable.

Re:

[Moridineas]

Blizzard has simultaneously released Starcraft, Warcraft3, and WoW for Mac and PC--on the same CDs even. They have excellent mac ports--if you can even call it a port.

Clearly it's not DirectX holding them back...

I do however agree with you that for Blizzard a linux version is highly unlikely to be profitable--especially considering the number of linux-ONLY people who would buy WoW. Most linux people who are gamers are going to have a windows box / boot to play games on already.

It's more complicated than that

[Rix]

Lots of Linux users who *could* but don't want to dual boot just to play a game are going to be attracted to any MMOG that offers them official support. Smaller games (like EVE) have more to gain, because there's a lot larger pool of people who might sign up who haven't, where as large games like WoW have pretty much saturated the market of people who'd like to play it. Blizzard offering official support wouldn't give them many new subscribers, it would just please their existing Linux using playerbase.

Re:

[Moridineas]

Wow, I didn't mean to upset you, it's really not worth getting mad over this, especially when we mostly agree!

The point--that you've apparently completely and utterly missed, or misunderstood--is that WoW runs on OpenGL, and without DirectX, on the Mac! There's already a complete, well-supported and well-running version that runs without DirectX. Furthermore, you can even run WoW on windows without Direct3D, using the openGL rendering engine. if you can run it OpenGL on windows, you can do it on linux with

Re:

[kcbanner]

Your wrong. I can play WoW under wine just fine, getting better FPS than in windows. WoW has an OpenGL option, next time don't start yelling before actually reading things.

Re:

[dbIII]

WoW under wine isn't going to work

I've just spent half the weekend playing it that way. I run it with the line "wine WoW.exe -opengl".

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[lordofthechia]

But nothing beats a native client.

And I agree, believe me, I agree, but it's a step. When people can pick up game boxes at their local retailer and see under supported systems "Windows, Mac Os X, and Linux" it will help establish Linux as a credible alternative for gamers. The more people see "runs on linux" or "works well with linux" the more people will be willing to try this Linux thing.

Once we get big enough, then yeah, we'll probably get native clients (or more, lets not forget the Id games), but until then, I'm happy with these ste

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[EvilRyry]

There are quite a few games that are targeted to SDL and usually have Linux ports, such as the Quake series, Doom series, and Unreal series.

I don't think the instability of WINE is really hurting, if a company was really concerned about it they could ship the game with its own packaging of WINE to ensure compatibility.

What we really need though is more manufactures using tools like SDL. They'll find out with a little planning, they can make a single code base portable between multiple platforms which will e

Re:

[grumbel]

### IT be nice if they were native, but the chances of game companies writing/porting against a more agnostic target (like SDL) are practically zero.

Game companies have their own portable toolkits, they don't need SDL. Just look at the consoles, completly different platforms and APIs, yet the companies don't have much trouble porting their games all around. The hard part about Linux isn't porting a game, but supporting it in the long run and for that the Linux gaming market is just to small to make it profi

Re:

[Bert64]

And why would anyone bother writing native linux programs?
You'd end up with everything running through wine, which is hardly ideal... Wine programs stick out like a sore thumb alongside other apps on linux/mac. Wine will always be one step behind microsoft's implementation too.
What we need, is a clean stable cross platform binary specification and api set, especially now that pretty much everything is x86 compatible. Think of it as java, but using native code.

Re:

[grumbel]

### What we need, is a clean stable cross platform binary specification and api set

Well, in case we ever get that, you can bet that it will be based on Win32.

Re:

[_|()|\|]

I don't think it's correct to call the Mac port native, either. It uses Cider, which is basically the same thing. In some cases, it is possible to use one game's Cider wrapper (e.g., Heroes of Might and Magic V) to run other Windows games, although a no-CD crack may be required [macworld.com]. I've also read on some forums that the registration program for the Mac version of Madden NFL '08 does not recognize it as a Mac version. You have to register as if you're running Windows.

Re:

[Yvan256]

Indeed, if it really was a native OS X program it would also run on my PowerPC G4 Mac mini.

EVE on the Mac? Not really.

Re:

[kindbud]

Until this patch, EVE running under Cedega or anything else was not a supported combination. Now it is. Stop whining, it's supported. You have a problem running EVE on Cedega, it's now OK to make a bug report and it will get some developer attention.

It formally supports Cedega and Cider..

[Nazlfrag]

They've worked with Cedega to bring 100% compatibility and official support. It also works on wine and crossover if you're happy with no official support. There is nothing misleading in the announcement, they never claimed to do more than this, which is all you need to get it running on linux or intel-based macs.

EVE vs Vendetta

[x1n933k]

I can't speak for EVE since I am a Mac user and never played the game however the idea, game play and such seem an awfully like Vendetta Online who natively support Windows, Linux (64Bit too), and Mac and looks great. Not to mention a great backstory.

It is also quite cheap compared to other online games. Can anyone vouch for EVE being any better than Vendetta? Although I quit playing VO it was one of the few MMOs that still support PPC.

Cheers,
[J]

Re:

[drspliff]

Vendetta is a poor and shallow game compared to EVE, one of my flatmates was an EVE Online addict (and quite successful EVE hacker)

Re:

[toriver]

(and quite successful EVE hacker)

Thanks for reminding me why I left that sorry excuse for an Excel spreadsheet with an animated background.

If it doesn't have a monthly fee

[Sycraft-fu]

It probably isn't a real great MMORPG. You can look at this from many different ways: Maybe the great ones charge because they can, maybe charging allows them to maintain the infrastructure and manpower needed to run it, whatever. Point is that you generally find that the no monthly fee games aren't the great ones. A lot of the time it's a situation like Diablo 2. Where there's a lot of multiplayer, but it is little isolated worlds sort of, not the real massive worlds that everyone is in that you get from g

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[FlyveHest]

While VO is pretty impressive as a project, mainly due to its low developer-count, it lacks sorely as a game, and even more as an MMO.

I tried playing, and after 4 of my 8 hours of trial, I felt like I had seen it all (Mining, mission running, transporting), except for PvP, because I hadn't had a single encounter with another player.

And, as far as I could see on their webpage, there was a staggering 27 people logged on when the server was at its max .. I've been in Team Fortress 2 games with more players tha

Re:

[Raumkraut]

While "Vendetta Online" has already shipped, the game is still considered to be in beta status by both its users and its developers, and many defining qualities are still only in the stages of early planning.

So the difference between VO and practically every other MMOG is just that the developers are honest?

Re:

[The Analog Kid]

Every MMORPG can be considered beta in some respects. It's not like WoW developers never change classes around and encounters to tweak everything. (though they've made the warrior class the exact opposite of what their aims were, to not just be a meat shield, so much for that).

One of the only MMOs worth playing.

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't change the rules to cater to the lowest common denominator, unlike WoW and other MMOs - it follows a specific vision, and users can either adapt or leave.

The openness and freedom of an old-school PK MUD combined with the concept of Elite/TradeWars/etc. make for an amazing, engrossing game.

Given its quality and lack of compromise, I'm surprised it's managed to survive so long.

I tried it

[satoshi1]

I installed the "Linux version" (just a .deb that installs a shortcut that then downloads a stripped Cedega engine and the game data), but it will not run for me. It displays the splash screen... and that's it. I got the same results when trying to run Eve under plain ol' Wine a yeear or two ago. Lame. The game is so beautiful, too.

No ATI support?

[zdzichu]

Why only nVidia supported? How they can go to Linux and ignore decent cards with available drivers (ATI r3xx, Intel), instead supporting binary only (thus really unsupportable) nVidia drivers? Why they ignore owners of older Mac Books Pro (with ATI cards)? Why they code support for nVidia instead of generic OpenGL renderer?

Re:

[NoodleSlayer]

Because there's a big difference between "available" drivers and decent drivers? ATi's linux drivers until recently were famously flawed, and I haven't heard much about the recently released set. And the code is for the generic OpenGL renderer, but you still need a driver to be able to interface between OpenGL and the hardware.

Re:

[atrus]

Intel probably boils down to a performance and shader problem.

You haven't used ATI's Linux drivers have you? The fact that they work at all is a miracle. The current open source 'radeon' driver only supports older (non X----) cards. The fglrx driver is a POS: buggy, unreliable- especially in 3d operations, and nowhere near the polish and functionality of the NVidia driver. Yes, the nvidia driver is closed source, but at least it works.

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

There's an opensource 'nv' driver that works pretty well with 2d although unfortunately you need the blob for openGL.

It has nothing to do with the driver interface

[Rix]

EVE (and anything else) would work fine with ATI drivers if they didn't suck. Cedega has done everything possible on their end, the rest is up to ATI.

Please AMD, just sack ATI's software side. Burn it down and start fresh.

Regnum Online

[A.K.A_Magnet]

Lately I have been playing a free (as in beer, optional "premium" content model) MMORPG which has a native client for GNU/Linux too (no client for Mac though). It's Realm versus Realm only, so it's extremely basic for the rest (no crafting, no non-combat skills, etc) but it's very good at what it is: a glorified chess-board for 50vs50 battles (there are three realms, a bit like DaoC). It's an indy Argentinian game developed by 7-8 crazies but it's getting better everyday. They don't advertise it too much be

It will run fine

[iregisteredjustforth]

Whatever you say, they have made an effort to make it easier to play the game on linux machines. Be fucking thankful that somebody is making an effort to reach into your tiny market, instead of whining that it's not perfect. Even if its not a native client, the game should run fine. People with decent computers can run 4 clients at a time in windows. If it was easy to make linux clients, and the money companies could possibly make by creating them was high enough, everyone would do it. The problem is there

It's not a native OS X port either.

[argent]

Glad you corrected the Linux client in the summary, but you need to do the same for OS X.

You're still implying that a Ciderized version of a Win32 application is "native" on OS X. It isn't, it's just another Wine-based port.

Am I mistaken? Mac "port" doesn't appear "native"

[analog_line]

I thought Cider was basically Cedega-for-Macs? No actual code was ported, they just created a DirectX compatibility layer for Mac.

Or am I wrong here? I'd love to think so, but I'm not sure.

Re:

[Darko8472]

Need I mention that WoW (and any number of Blizzard games) are already fully Mac compatible? Not Linux, admittedly... but it's a step in the right direction that's been going on for years.

Re:Hopefully

[LingNoi]

Because depending on wine makes you look like you don't care about your market and your relying on a third party such as winehq to make your game work.

If Eve brings out a patch that no longer makes it work under wine and 100 people send in hate mail then you can see why maybe a native client might be a good thing.

Re:

[tolan-b]

Unfortunately the new EVE client is actually just the Windows client plugged into winelib (hopefully optimised a bit too). Better than just trying to run it on Wine though, which has traditionally been a pain in the arse.

Re:

[Nossie]

"Blizzard wrote a Windows client for WoW that is ported to Linux with Wine for free"

So you didnt know that WoW was written on linux and working in beta before they moved it to windows then?

Re:

[kcbanner]

First of all, nothing is better than a native port. I don't care if it runs "fine" under wine. Maybe the shaders don't work, maybe there are graphical glitches. I want games companies to care enough to compile the damn thing for linux. All they have to do is just lose the dependency for silly windows libs, use OpenGL, its 10x better than directx in my opinion.

Re:

[Bert64]

What's really needed is a cross platform binary standard and standard set of APIs...
If you could download one binary, and run it on any OS with an x86 compatible CPU. Like java, but using native code etc.
It would also make a lot of sense for games companies, write the game once and get windows/mac/linux/solaris/bsd ports for free, since your coding to the cross platform standard instead of any particular OS.

Re:

[Macthorpe]

OpenGL isn't broken in Vista.

Re:

[JohnBailey]

Why would companies spend resources on a Linux version of their software if their software works with Wine just fine? Blizzard wrote a Windows client for WoW that is ported to Linux with Wine for free. What more can a company want than someone else doing the work for them for free? Any company that spends vast amounts of resources to port a product to Linux when it can be emulated with wine just fine probably isn't making good business decisions anyway, and won't stay in business long. On the flip side, Wine could very well be hindering games from being 'Linux native' because wine is capable of providing the performance needed to get the job done. There is no incentive to provide such software for Linux users because they can use Wine.

Because Wine doesn't always work consistently. An upgrade can break some apps that were running well with wine, and a native client is going to work better. Games are also much more likely to do something low level that hasn't been thought of which could cause problems with Wine.

There doesn't need to be vast resources devoted to porting a game from one platform to the other. They don't have to write the whole thing from scratch..

The majority of the work is already done, and if the system is well designed,

Re:

[The Analog Kid]

The majority of the work is already done, and if the system is well designed, the game is practically platform agnostic already. All the animations, the meshes, the skins, the sound and music files are all independent of one particular platform, and if the engine is developed properly, the resources involved are minimized.

I'm guessing in this case they designed their game for Windows and Linux/OS X were an afterthought. If they designed their game for portability there would probably be a native Linux port.

Re:

[dnoyeb]

Eve is written in stackless Python. So its not as windows dependent as one might think.

Re:

[JohnBailey]

I'm guessing in this case they designed their game for Windows and Linux/OS X were an afterthought. If they designed their game for portability there would probably be a native Linux port. I dunno if a company like Loki can survive now, but even then with a MMORPG patches have to be released simultaneously or you risk pissing off some of your customers (and really it's unfair to them to do that). Holding back your patches to have all the platform on the same page risks the customers growing tired of waiting for new content. I would guess for a MMORPG its really better to have an in-house team to manage the Linux port, but that is expensive vs the amount of people playing the game on that OS. If Linux has 3% of the total userbase then only a fraction of the 3% would playing the game.

I meant that for a yet to be written game, it would be much more practical to start with a portable system. Develop on Linux, Mac, Windows, Xbox and PS3 all from the same code base. Many companies are already doing this with consoles and computers, so an extra platform or two will bring in more profit.

As to the user base. Of the entire 95% that Windows is reputed to have, not every windows user is a gamer. I think you are severely over estimating the market.
The Windows majority is made up of 98, 98SE, 2000

Re:

[C0rinthian]

This is why I think Wine is a bad idea. It's a cop-out. The fact that you can hack up programs to run on something other than Windows is no excuse for failing to support the platform. Wine gives developers less incentive to make platform independent software, and that's a BAD thing.

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

You're not in the target demographic of the Mac. I'm not going to say what the target demographic actually is other than that it's the people for which the best applications for their jobs have traditionally been on the Mac.

Re:

[antime]

It's also not a native version, it uses Cider like all the EA "ports" that have been released recently.

Re:

[Tragek]

I suppose the real question is: HOw does it run. I'm really disappointed though that it keeps getting bandied about as a native port, when it clearly says it's not.

Re:

[WilliamSChips]

I wish more games were designed with SDL from the ground up.

Sure

[Rix]

Buy an Nvidia card and the curse is over.

Re:

[jjohnson]

We've switched HermMunster's coffee for pure metamphetines. Let's see if he notices...