Striking Writers May Work on Games 124
The ongoing Writer's Guild strike may soon impact even the games industry. While most of the copy writers working on games are not a part of the guild, via Eurogamer comes a Variety article about a possible Hollywood writer's migration to other media. "While the WGA has made no secret that it would like to eventually cover vidgame writing, it hasn't pushed the issue yet and is allowing members to work on games during the strike. 'It has been an interesting shift," says one tenpercenter who focuses on vidgames. "The literary agents are now saying, 'Why don't we get our clients over there during the strike?' even though in the past they thought the money wasn't good enough or the work is too demanding.'"
Is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Is this good or bad? (Score:5, Funny)
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At least they won't work on The Sims The Movie (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not making this up, there really seems to a The Sims movie in the works... If hollywood can screw up game movies with single paragraph plots, what the hell will they do with a game that HAS NO PLOT?
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Wait, that sounds alarmingly like
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I have a snippet of the script, if you're interested...
Angelina Jolie: Mwa hama mu mu gunya! Do do do do. Manna manna.
So touching. *weeps*
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I can even imagine the screen writer trying to pitch it to the various production companies only to be told "WTF?!?"
To which he replies:
"Ok ok ok
Pleasantview is one of the most delightful neighbourhoods to live in, everybody is happy, the grass is always green, children are always well-mannered. But newcomer Andie starts to uncover the 'real' p
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Simple: You go with the old standard "human gets trapped inside virtual/alternate/fictional reality universe, and must find a way out". For examples, see Tron, Chronicles of Narnia, Spy Kids, Pleasentville (particularly this one), Remote Control, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, and many many more.
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There are soap opera writers in that crowd, aren't there?
Re:Is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
The union's fight is not their fight - soap operas don't sell DVD's or get watched online.
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Yea this could get very bad.
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*cough* Resident Evil Outbreak *cough*
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Line them all up Pink Floyd style and let's have all of them shot.
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The reason I have no sympathy for striking writers (aside from the fact that I don't think BOOK authors have unions and I don't want to hear a bunch of starving artists cry about being starving artists while the rest of us have REAL jobs for a living) is that there are very few writers who deserve to have their jobs. Much less negotiate stronger contracts.
Line them all up Pink Floyd style and let's have all of them shot.
I sort of agree most Hollywood stuff is dreck but writers are the lowest on the Hollywood totem. Good ones can make extremely good entertainment (Canon O'Brian penned arguably the best Simpson's episodes. After he left it's been down hill.) Having a union evens out the wages so it's not multi-millions for popular ones and pittance for others. It enables people who can tell stories to be employed. I personally think that no matter what you do around 80% or more of everything is crap. So by enabling more peo
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It already works that way. If you write bad shows/movies that don't get watched, the show gets canceled and you're out of a job. Shows that don't get watched don't get rerun and don't sell DVDs, so no residuals either. And as reputation-based as the entertainment industry is, if you have a habit writing flops,
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This is not always true. Firefly got canceled during the first season, but the DVDs sold like crazy. It makes sense that writers still want to get paid if their creation does better on DVD than on TV.
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Actually, this is kind of what the strike is about.
Right now, film and TV writers get paid "residuals", which are analogous to the royalties paid to a novelist. A TV show that is a huge hit and is constantly rerun generates more residuals than one that only airs
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First off, I should say that I'm a WGA member, but I'm not speaking for the WGA. This is all my opinion. That out of the way:
We aren't crying about be
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That is probably the most singularly incredible example I have seen in my lifetime of the quality of writing of a professional writer!
[Sorry, that was mean, but still had to say it. It's funny, laugh...
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You're not buying it, are you?
Ah, well. Worth a try.
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What's WRONG WITH YOU!?
I wouldn't worry either way (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh boy... (Score:1)
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Great... just what I needed. (Score:3, Funny)
Honestly though, most of my favorite works in gaming have involved professional writers really taking the time to craft a great work of fiction in a game (especially Planescape: Torment.)
Ryan Fenton
consider some of the top selling games... (Score:3, Insightful)
Or consider games such as halo 3, crysis or the grand theft auto series where the storyline is important. But it is the design of the game that is ultimately more important and provides a framework within which the writers work. In other words, the value-added of a hollywood writer in this case seems limited.
In each of the above examples, I see the involvement of sit-com and action-movie writers as a big negative. The story line in games can be silly at times ... but never as stupid or lame as in the vast majority of tv shows and movies out of hollywood.
Yes I can see you logic (Score:2)
Games sure could use some great writers, perhaps we could talk to these Hollywood/tv writers and ask them if they know any, you never know, they might have bumped into them at some time.
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And while some games don't need a scriptwriter, there are a lot that would have benefitted from a bit of talent. Not all games are shooters or strategy games. RPGs are actually pretty popular, and require a lot of material.
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such as world of warcraft or the madden football sequels or civilization. How much value could a hollywood writer add to the storyline?
... but never as stupid or lame as in the vast majority of tv shows and movies out of hollywood.
Or consider games such as halo 3, crysis or the grand theft auto series where the storyline is important. But it is the design of the game that is ultimately more important and provides a framework within which the writers work. In other words, the value-added of a hollywood writer in this case seems limited.
In each of the above examples, I see the involvement of sit-com and action-movie writers as a big negative. The story line in games can be silly at times
A lot of games could really use a dialog rewrite. some of the dialog is terrible. Off the top of my head Marvel Ultimate alliance could. Of course some movies Movies [imdb.com] Could as well.
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Alpha Centauri, Star Control 2 (Score:2)
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Screenwriters vs. Authors (Score:5, Insightful)
[generic response] (Score:5, Funny)
<elitist crap>
<broad general dismissal>
Sorry, my own writers are on strike, but I see everyone else is busy mad-libbing their own attitudes toward their hate of all things sitcoms and reality tv as if that's all there ever was out there. You think you're gaining some kind of "cred" with your oh-so-jaded attitudes?
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Such as?
OTOH, it's hard for me to feel any sympathy for someone who wants to be paid for the same work over and over again.
I bet a lot of aircraft factory workers would like to get paid every time a ticket is sold.
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Studios get paid for the advertisements shown with every television show aired, no matter how long it's been in syndication. Why not writers, actors, directors, and the other creative people?
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Now, as far as original writing, off the top of my head, on public channels we've got Ugly Betty, which may be a copy of a Latin soap opera, but is nonetheless original and creative writing. We've got The Reaper, which is some of the most hilarious writing since Buffy. There's The Big Bang t
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Oxymoron (Score:2)
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If you're going to troll the trolls, you need a more subtle lead in.
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conglomerates? (Score:2)
Today on VR!!! (Score:1)
remember kids, VR is the only tv show where you choose who's the skank, the psycho-bitch, the alcoholic, and what loser is actually gonna win!!! and stay tuned for Extreme Anime Fights right after our show!
copyright emeraldfoxx corporations 2007
lol!
Welcome Writers of "The Office" (Score:4, Insightful)
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Hollywood writers are good? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Indeed - everyone should go to the bookstore. I totally agree. Or rather, let them stay home and gel on their sofas...I'll gl
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I remember seeing a lecture by Kevin Smith once talking about how he was contracted to write a superhero movie (An early incarnation of what was eventually Superman Retur
Who said game writers were that bad? (Score:1)
Guilds, Associations, Unions, etc. (Score:2)
If companies were allowed to collude on prices the consumer loses, and thus the economy loses. Why is it that no one seems to be able to see that when individuals collude on wages businesses lose, thus the consumer loses, and finally the economy loses?
Here in Utah there was a raging debate recently about how to "fix" public education by allowing a voucher system. The argument was that this
Re:Guilds, Associations, Unions, etc. (Score:4, Informative)
Southern California? Having lived there, I can tell you unionization had very little to do with not having brick houses. California doesn't have brick houses because they fall down in earthquakes.
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This has
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In India the government used to (until rather recently) highly regulate all imports and exports to protect the local economy and the local impoverished population. Of course after many years they've
Re:Guilds, Associations, Unions, etc. (Score:4, Informative)
Frankly, that statement just doesn't hold water. Neither the individual part, nor the fix wages part have much grounding in reality.
First of all, the union isn't about the individual. Its about the union, hence the name union. The union is concerned with seeing that all of its members get a fair shake. There is no individual action within a union, for better or for worse. The union instead goes by something like the strength in numbers principle, using the collective strength of its members together.
But equally wrong is your statement about fixing wages. The union isn't trying to fix wages - that would be communism. The union is just trying to ensure that the wage floor is adequate for full time work. In the example you were complaining about regarding the teachers union, the union wants to ensure that full time teachers make an adequate salary when they start. They don't restrict the maximum that their members can earn (how would they retain members if they did?) - they just want to ensure that their members all have livable wages.
It is also worth pointing out that countries who are doing better economically than the US (their numbers growing every day) tend to actually have higher rates of union membership than we do. For example, Canadian union membership is around 30% nationally, as opposed to around 12% in the US. But yet their dollar is worth more than ours, and their life expectancy exceeds ours. Oh, and their educational system is often more highly regarded than ours.
So you are free to hate the unions if you wish, but please, check your facts before you blame the world on them.
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If there were 100 teachers willing to work for 40,000, 50 willing to work for 30,000, and 10 willing to work for 20,000, why should we not be allowed to hire those bottom 10 at the rate they are worth?
Thats really two not the same question - what a teacher is willing to work for, vs. what they are worth. And I'd like to start by asking who would really want their kids taught by someone willing to teach for only 20k? Shouldn't the wage for a full-time job be at least high enough to discourage the employee (the teacher in this case) from needing to seek out a second job to pay their cost of living? If you only pay a teacher $20k in a city where cost of living is $35, they'll have to make the other $
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Thats really two not the same question - what a teacher is willing to work for, vs. what they are worth. And I'd like to start by asking who would really want their kids taught by someone willing to teach for only 20k? Shouldn't the wage for a full-time job be at least high enough to discourage the employee (the teacher in this case) from needing to seek out a second job to pay their cost of living? If you only pay a teacher $20k in a city where cost of living is $35, they'll have to make the other $15k somewhere. And that could well be a second or third-shift job that goes year round. This would of course eat into the time that the teacher should spend grading junior's homework and planning junior's lesson plan.
Sorry, but value is determined by market demand. Value is a subjective quality, not objective; your personal preferences or opinions are not universal law. Regardless, he only gave a rough example; price doesn't necessarily equate "skill". Different people have different wants and some may think the 20k is a better deal than what someone who may reject it might think.
And on top of that, if a school hires at $20k, what kind of retention would you expect them to have? If one school hires teachers straight from college for $20k, and another school 5 miles away does it for $40, how long will any teacher worth their salt stay at $20k? This is a big part of why inner city schools (and even first ring suburbs in some areas) end up with sub-par teachers; they're only willing and able to pay sub-par rates. However, the union assisting the wage floor actually helps this problem. I say this because if the poor schools don't have the option to hire teachers at $20k, they will subsequently need to raise money to pay the base wage.
Sometimes businesses hire low entry wage and raise the salary if they wish to keep the employee. Imagine that! And If some schools don'
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Sometimes businesses hire low entry wage and raise the salary if they wish to keep the employee.
Except that some schools don't have that option. If the school doesn't have the money to increase the teachers' salaries - because the board said they must pay teachers X wage even though another is paying 1.5*X - then the district loses the teacher.
If instead the district is told that teachers won't work for less than 1.5*X, then they have to come up with the money - either raise funds or reduce other expenditures and salaries. Hence the union-set minimum salary is actually helping because it aids
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Which government exactly is it that's breaking up unions? Please let me know, I'd like to sign up.
I'm not going to say that you're narrow minded like the GP, merely under-educated. Please take a basic economics course from your local college. When the teacher and the textbooks say pretty much what I and others have just said, and
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Which government exactly is it that's breaking up unions? Please let me know, I'd like to sign up.
Try the current government in the US. You could start by going back to the actions that Ronald Reagan took against air traffic controllers in 1981, when he fired over 80% of the unionized workers. Similarly, the Bush currently in the white house has tried to revoke the right to strike from the US Postal Service.
Or were you either not born or not awake during the Reagan administration? I'm inclined to believe that you know at least enough about it that you credit him personally with taking down the
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Athletes, etc, make a lot of money simply because of market forces. If you don't like it, then tough; that's the way it'll always be, because of supply and demand.
In the case of airline executives, in particular, the compensation is not based on the forces of the market and what it can bear. If it were, then the airlines would adjust their CEO compensation before asking for government money to bail their sorry selves out.
Instead, the CEOs set their own salaries to beyond what the market can bear, and they expect the market to adjust accordingly to accommodate their "needs".
And thanks for the comment about crying into a pillow - I'm still laughing at that on
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We don't prevent price fixing in our society because there is something inherently wrong with it, in and of itself. We prevent it because, as a whole, it is detrimental to the majority of citizens for the benefit of the few. Essentially, it is prevented not because it's inherently wrong to fix prices, but because it hurts society.
Now, consider the same argument with wages. Does it hurt society to enforce a minimum adequate wage? No, and if you want t
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It does hurt society to have a minimum wage. By setting a floor on the amount a business can hire at, the number of employees, and thus the number unemployeed, is off from what the market could handle. Does a teenager working at McDonalds earn $6 an hour for the company? Sure, but would the McDonalds not be able to offer better service if it could hire two
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Nonsense! Our destitute country has carried such burdens long enough! I suggest that we immediately find a way to harness this vast, untapped resource that is our nation's retarded. Clearly, a giant city-sized,
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There but for the grace of God go I.
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First of all, the union isn't about the individual. Its about the union, hence the name union. The union is concerned with seeing that all of its members get a fair shake.
No, it's about seeing that all of its members get an unfair shake (if by "shake" you mean compensation).
In a fair free-market scenario, quantity of labor supplied would equal quantity of labor demanded. Elementary macroeconomics states that when the supply
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No, it's about seeing that all of its members get an unfair shake
Please elaborate on this. I'd like to know how you feel the unions see that their members get an unfair shake.
However, when labor suppliers (unions) are able to collude on wages and labor demanders (employers) are not, that creates a situation that disproportionately favors the suppliers, artificially driving up costs (wages).
Thats an interesting viewpoint, but I disagree with your description of the situation. Indeed, there are few examples remaining outside of education where the people looking for labor are obligated to work with the unions. And even in that example, I've seen districts that hire substitutes from outside the unions, sometimes to longer than usual time frames.
Furthermore, your statemen
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Have you ever heard of prevailing wage? I work for a company that receives the bulk of its profits from government contracts. We often hire workers in a local city, we pay them what they demand, because there's only so many construction companies. Often times the contractor will hire union workers, often times not. We also have our own install crews that aren't unionized. We can't, however, pay them what we like. Dependi
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Yes, but it's colder there and they say "aboot" instead of "about". As long as we're going off on unrelated tangents.
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Back in the day I could pay my workers in company money, good only at my company store, and that was alright. I had no incentive to provide for their safety or continued well-being, and if my workers got uppity and tried to form a garsh-darned union, I c
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But I tip my hat to you, sir. It looks like the best feedback we can take from it is that the staunch anti-union guys here won't touch it.
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Won't ever happen (Score:1, Insightful)
How about a game based on the Heroes TV series? (Score:1)
I'm all for the writers getting the $$$ they deserve...the studios are doing everything they can to take down all of their material from p2p sites and YouTube so they
Because... (Score:2)
The effect on the game industry. (Score:2)
Jabs at bad writers aside, I'm interested on how the WGA covering video games could change the industry.
Like most programmers, its rare that video game programmers see any residuals for games they worked on. I'm not saying this isn't fair, I get paid for the work I do, but if game writers, voice talent, and artists all start getting a piece of the action why not programmers?
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You're probably right.
I have to admit, I don't know much about how unions worked in the movie/TV industry. I assumed that everybody had to be part of a union to work in it (from director to the lunch wagon driver).
There are no residuals in games. (Score:2)
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