This Year's Top Game Design Innovations 169
Next Generation has one of those end of the year 'top 10' lists we all love so much, with plenty of room for discussion on this one. They claim to have picked out the top 10 game design innovations of 2007. It's hard to argue with elements like Portal's portals or Mass Effect's conversation wheel, but was Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii really as good as a mouse-and-keyboard PC FPS? "When people ask 'How do we make a good shooter on a console' what they really mean is 'how do we make a shooter that feels as quick and responsive as a PC shooter on the console?' Apparently the answer is the Wii mote. I was blown away by this fact. Nintendo had always been the 'family friendly' console to me so I didn't consider the FPS ramifications of the Wiimote but clearly it's the best tool for the job. With some tweaking and some refinement down the line I could see the Wii (or a console with Wii like controls) becoming the platform of choice for hardcore FPSers, even over the PC. If this does become the case it will owe it all to Metroid Prime 3."
Wii FPS controls (Score:5, Insightful)
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Of course, you could also pull a Sony and just let the developers code for keyboard/mouse support, like they allowed with the ps2 and ps3. It seems alot of developers aren't making use of that functionality for some reason, beyond UT3's use of it. Why? No idea.
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It is for me. Its never been done right. I'd rather play them on the PC.
Autoaim can be just as bad at time. A happy medium between the two often works well though.
I hate auto aim... i want to shoot the barrel just behind the target its locked on. I want to shoot the caster behind the charging warrior... whatever... autoaim drives me nuts.
I -did- enjoy Eternal Darkness on the 'cube tho, and thought
Re:Wii FPS controls (Score:4, Interesting)
"was Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii really as good as a mouse-and-keyboard PC FPS?" This is an absurd question. The wiimote is twitchy as all get out. I know a bunch of people love Metroid 3, so I have to acknowledge that, even if I hate it, it's a successful and good product, but man that game is just not that good. I prefer the dual analog sticks, slow as they are, for moving about a 3d world, if I can't have a mouse. Also, the graphics on Metroid just seem pretty weak to me (and yeah, I know a lot of people think they are excellent).
I guess I may just have weird tastes in this, and more power to Nintendo for the new ideas, but I own Metroid 3 and most other major wii games (well, my kids do), and I really don't like them that much. They are basically obvious motion adaptations of well worn and nostalgic Nintendo greats. That's a solid biz model, but top design innovation? Well, ok, maybe it is, but only because there aren't many real innovations out there. This is like including the powerglove with all NESs. yeah, it's different.
And is a wiimote better than a sixaxis (granting that Sony gets no innovation points for knocking off the wiimote)? I guess. If you point it at the TV, it aims and twitches, and that's a feature only teh wii has, but is this a good feature or just a unique feature? Games like HVB are showing that the sixaxis can be pretty damn nice in the hands of a competent programmer (so sad that this is one of the best PS3 games, huh?).
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Do you get a lot of Sun in the room you play the Wii in? In general if I have those issues drawing the curtains fixes them ( sunlight screws up communication with the sensor bar).
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You prefer analog sticks? You may, but this has nothing to do with them being better than a Wiimote + Nunchuk combo.
The worst is that you only guess that a Wiimote is better than a sixaxis, when it's obvious!
I have both, I can confirm sixaxis is no match to a Wiimote, if only for the pointer.
And you add more nonsense like "is this a good feature or just a unique feature?"
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Re:Wii Sensor Bar tips. (Score:4, Informative)
Any infrared light source near the TV (or IRsensor on the Wiimote) could be disruptive. Lamps, Candles, and especially the Sun. The WiiMote uses the the sensor bar to triangulate position based on 2 steady points (provided by the sensor bar). If multiple sources are competing with the signal then it will confuse the Wiimote causing jitter. The Sun is the worse as it can blanket the Wiimote sensor with IR light making it impossible to detect the 2 points of the sensor bar among all the noise. So as an experiment you may want to close the curtains, blow out the candles, and turn off any lamps that may be near the TV to see if they are adding interference.
Another issue is distance, if you have a rectangular living room you may have issues with the Nintendo Stock sensor bar after 10 feet or so. (or if you are too close IE: less than 3 feet from it will cause issues)
I hope that helps.
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I've been waiting for a good 3rd party sensor bar that might actually glow a bit brighter. You mention the "Nintendo Stock sensor bar" and imply there are better sensor bars out there. Have you had any success extending the practical range of your
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Thank You ! (Score:2)
This sensor with its AC adapter should be able to provide a brighter IR signal for better long-distance remote control. I've got it on order, thanks again!
Christmas lights (Score:2)
You probably wouldn't think much about it, but those little bulbs are just about the same size (and IR intensity) of the sensor bar's IR LEDs. So, for the holidays, you'll need to be careful to switch off the tree/decorations before you load up a game. In our house, we just put the tree on a switch, as Mario Galaxy is getting serious playtime.
Happy Holidays!
Wii Controls are already better than PC. (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't have that issue with a big screen. I wonder where that line really diverges, is it bad on say 19" TV, but Sweet at 42"+ ? Dunno. It was pretty easy for me to pick off people in the distance on my projector and I have a 92" screen on that.
I know I'll get flamed to hell for this, but unlike the article I think the Wii Controls are already better than the PC's (and there is still room for improvement*). The Advanced sensitivity on Metroid Prime 3 is "Nearly, but not quite as sensitive as a mouse", but for what little sensitivity is lost, the Analog on the Nunchuck kicks the shit out of WASD, and there is simply nothing that can compare on the PC with the visceral immersion of the Grapple gun.
Using your left arm to throw a grapple on you're opponent's shield, then jerking your arm back to pull the shield out of their hand so you can blast them with your arm cannon is something you can't get elsewhere. Add that with full analog movement, and you have an experience that not only rivals, but betters the competition.
*Games are already improving on the design, play Medal of Honor Heroes 2 and customize your aim sensitivity to achieve mouse level precision if you like.
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The "experience" might be better, but the controls might be worse. You might have more fun playing with the wii controls, but do they actually let you win as often as you would playing with mouse and keyboard? The only way to know is to let PC and wii players duke it out online and see who wins the most.
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That would be an extremely silly definition of 'better' and 'worse'.
The -experience- is what's important.
If you could play with a keyboard and mouse against someone who was ACTUALLY inside a 'star trek holod
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Re:Wii Controls are already better than PC. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wii Controls are already better than PC. (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that the controller doesn't exist separately from the game, and games are designed around controllers.
Consider how you move, jump, and climb, in an FPS with wasd? Its all *automated*! You run to a ladder and push forward and your avatar slings his gun and climb upwards. The designer removed all sorts of things from having to individually move your feet and arms and coordinate those actions, to having to sling your gun.
The holodeck sim has let the designer put all that stuff back in, and made the experience more immersive. So now if you pit a holodeck player against a keyboard and mouse player, but forced the keyboard and mouse player to individually move hands, feet, fingers, torso, etc, they'd be almost unable to move.
So, the keyboard and mouse is only a "better" controller if the game **compensates for the controller** and automates moving, running, climbing, etc.
But its a pretty arbitrary place to set the automation. And its set there because it creates 'reasonably easy control while allowing for reasonably challenging play', and that's a game design choice. Some games make you push a key to climb, some make you put your gun away, some games have auto-run, some games simulate fatique and have it affect your reticule size etc...
The keyboard/mouse could have even more automation, and do auto-aiming, auto-headshot, and auto-jump, auto-run (oh wait... autorun is already an option on most titles, and auto-aim is pretty common too...) that would make the game even easier to win than it already is; would that make it a 'better control scheme'? Does it make you a "better player"?
Alternatively if the keyboard mouse scheme did LESS compensation then the holodeck guy would suddenly start winning. If the keyboard mouse scheme does NO compensation, and you had to use the keyboard/mouse to articulate all your limbs then the only way you'd beat the holdeck player is if he laughed himself to death watching you try to aim your gun at him.
The point is that the 'controller' isn't just the hardware, its the software that interprets the controls, and the software part is pretty arbitrary. If a console player has dual analog sticks but the game auto-aims while the keyboard/mouse player has to cope with a reticule that floats around trailing the cursor instead of being the cursor... would keyboard/mouse still be superior?
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MP3's controls were just fine on our 32" CRT. I stand about 6-8' away from the TV when I play, and while I will admit that the nunchuck's accelerometer is a bit twitchy (e.g. when trying to grapple a shield off something), I never once had a problem with the aiming.
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Any time I sit on the couch, I'm guaranteed that at least one dog will join me there within 3 seconds of the time my butt hits the cushion. Let me tell you, attempting to shoot Space Pirates with 80 lb of highly energetic canine in your face adds a whole new meaning to "Hypermode." Worse yet, the nunchuck "grapple" movement, to a dog, looks like "human threw something - go fetch it!" At least if I'm standing, I can fend them off.
Sometim
Re:Wii Controls are already better than PC. (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry if I was unclear. I was not commenting on customization as an innovation in this particular game, rather I was commenting on how MoH Heroes 2 (with its' customization options) can actually reach mouse levels of sensitivity on the Wii, and how that was an improvement on the Metroid Prime 3's (Still wonderful) controls.
Thanks.
What I really wonder (Score:5, Insightful)
So what we came up with was: a trackball. No, really.
Think a standard console controller. Say, a Dual Shock, because everyone knows it. But it's the same principle for an XBox pad, Dreamcast pad, Gamecube pad, whatever, really.
Now think replacing the right stick with a small, thumb-operated trackball.
Think about it. A trackball has much the same advantages a mouse has, because it _is_ a mouse turned upside down. You can turn around 180 degrees at the flick of the thumb, and stop on exact pixel you want to. The problem of joystick vs mouse is really that moving with a joystick can be very fast or very accurate, but not both at the same time. A mouse lets you do both. So does a trackball.
So, really, why doesn't anyone do just that?
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It'd probably be great for a hardcore player that's spent a lot of time with it, but I think it'd be very frustrating and difficult to start with. But still, I'm surprised too that I haven't seen a product like that before. Maybe it does exist somewhere.
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I would LOVE to see a controller like this simply because I I would like a way to ditch my keyboard for gaming.
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I've written a fairly extensive article on this at my blog: http://hansonvideogaming.blogspot.com/2006/10/levelling-playing-field-mice-and.html [blogspot.com]
In short, if the graph of rotational speed vs stick deflection looked like a U instead of the more common V, twin-stick players could get both the precision and speed that a mouse provides.
Anyone who's played a shooter on a laptop using the "eraser" pointer stick and with mou
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Whoa (Score:2)
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Maybe that's why I'm much happier with the Wiimote than I am the Dualshock or the Xbox360 controllers. I've never gotten comfortable with the thumb-controls on the newer controllers -- I always used my pointers for the D-Pad l
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http://www.bodielobus.com/ [bodielobus.com]
Hans
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However, center-mounted trackballs involve the pointer and middle fingers. These are your two most precise digi
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Metroid controls were great (Score:3, Insightful)
Metroid Prime 3 hit a weird spot. The first two Prime games certainly featured first person shooting, but didn't play anything like an FPS game. They played like an adventure game with a different camera angle. Prime 3 moved much closer to the FPS realm. If you're an FPS fan, you'll probably like the beginning and end of the game and tolerate the middle. If you're a Metroid fan, you'll probably feel the reverse.
There's no doubt Wiimote+Nunchuck beats the keyboard part of mouse+keyboard. Precision moving and jumping is far easier with an analog stick than with a keyboard. If like me you rarely play FPS games, the Wiimote is easier to use than a mouse. But my gut feeling is over time, the mouse would be slightly easier to be precise with as it's on a flat surface rather than being held in the air.
Of course, I play for the adventure, not the shooting, so I just left lock-on turned on, which means for the most part you only had to aim at bosses. If you found a good sitting position where you could rest the Wiimote on your knee and aim from there, you might be able to beat a mouse in precision.
Re:Metroid controls were great (Score:4, Insightful)
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No, the hate for jumping in FPS games is that you can't see what the hell you are doing -- you can either see where you are jumping to, or where your feet are, but not both, so one way or another you always feel as though you are jumping blind.
Metroid gets around this thr
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Its not just level design, Metroid also automatically looks down a bit while you jump, which helps orientation and in addition it has very 'sticky' edges, so even if you miss a jump by a bit, you still make it to the other side safely, because you 'stick' to the edge and can make it up.
All that said, even with all this I still consider jumps in FPSs to be pretty annoying, not only are they harder, because you can see less, they are also simply less fun,
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I used to think that helped, but Prime 3 doesn't do that (at least not with the controls set to advanced sensitivity), and I didn't find jumping any harder in that game. Prime 3 had its share of precision jumping - for example, freezing the fuel gel spouts usually resulted in a pretty small area that you could land on.
in addition it has very 'sticky' edges, so even if you miss a jump by a bit, you s
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I've never cared to see where my feet are. I don't see that being an issue unless the level designer made the platforms way too small.
Metroid gets around this through good level design.
Good level design makes everything better, bad level design makes everything worse.
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Or the jump large enough that the only way you could make it was if your feet were at the very edge of the platform when you jumped.
Turoc, the epitome of annoying jumping puzzles in FPS, demonstrated this frequently. The correct jumping procedure was: line up to target, look straight down at your shadow (no visible feet of course), run forward, hit jump when the center of t
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Never found that to cause a problem in Metroid.
Are you saying you never cared in Metroid where your feet are? Because it certainly matters in some other FPS games, and it 100% matters in true platform games that are either 2-D or 3-D 3rd person. It doesn't matter in Metroid because they made it not matter...
Yes, in the Metroid Prime games I've never really cared where my feet w
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I've never found that to be an issue. If I can see the target before I jump, it's not hard to do. Even if you can't see that well, as long as you've got analog controls you can fine tune well enough in the air to compensate as long as you were close.
Metroid Prime worked in part because the platforms simply had a unified distance
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there is a notable lag between action of the mote and action on screen. partly due to the wi fi partly due to the slowness of the motion sensors.
No there is not. Unless you're able to see each of the frames displayed by second, which I doubt.
Let me guess, you have a HDTV, right?
The only lag seen usually comes from the TV processing. So you have it backwards actually:
the more precise your controller is, the more you will detect the lag induced by your HDTV processing.
The only time I saw lag on my TV was with the Wii on my HDTV, which now I play in game mode, and I don't see any lag anymore. I got my HDTV after the Wii, and never had any lag on the o
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No there is not. Unless you're able to see each of the frames displayed by second, which I doubt.
Let me guess, you have a HDTV, right?
The only lag seen usually comes from the TV processing. So you have it backwards actually:
the more precise your controller is, the more you will detect the lag induced by your HDTV processing.
The only time I saw lag on my TV was with the Wii on my HDTV, which now I play in game mode, and I don't see any lag anymore. I got my HDTV after the Wii, and never had any lag on the old CRT one.
And keep in mind that my HDTV was advertised with 5 ms refresh, so as most HDTV are advertised for worse, even in game mode, I'm sure they're still laggy.
The lag is not present with a 360 nor my PS3 so no it is not in fact my TV. (6ms)
The sole thing on which I agree is the "more intuitive to learn" part, which is the main goal of controllers on consoles.
So the Wiimote + Nunchuk combo wins hands down.
Then, precision is better with the Nunchuk than with a keyboard, which should be obvious to you, as the Nunchuk has an analog controller, that keyboard doesn't have, and the Nunchuk is designed to be operated easily without looking at it, while the keyboard is not.
The only way in which the Wiimote loses to the mouse, is precision, and not by much, but as it's on the Wii, which doesn't have high resolution like on a PC to begin with, this point is moot, for now at least.
WASD is basically been burned into my skull for over a decade. It is every bit as precise as the nunchuk due entirely to how ham fisted many console games are with controls. I've noticed lag in RE4, Rayman, Zelda:TP, have yet to play metroid 3.
Wii mote in first person shooters (Score:5, Interesting)
The only reason it's usable at all in Metroid Prime 3 is because the Z button auto-locks your view onto the target.
If it wasn't for that feature, the controls would be hopeless.
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On the default "n00b setting", yes it does this. On "Advanced" the Z button locks the camera on a specific target, but gives you free range shooting ability anywhere. This is the way it should be played.
Re:Wii mote in first person shooters (Score:4, Insightful)
Advanced sensitivity + Z lock for me. It's an adventure game, not a shooter. Why make disposing of the wildlife time consuming when the terrain is your real enemy?
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Cus it's more fun. To me, anyway. Fortunately the game is designed really well and will still be just as fun for those who don't want to have to aim at the wildlife.
Re:Wii mote in first person shooters (Score:5, Insightful)
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People playing the game for the adventure, not the shooting. You know, the stuff Metroid games are known for.
It's like playing OoT with Z-Lock on; sure if you've never played a video game before it can be helpful, but it's more satisfying to actually become skilled at something like that
I'm assuming you mean Ocarina of Time here... why would you not use Z-Lock? It's just a different set of controls that work a lot better in certain situations. Not using
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I played about 1/3 of Corruption with Z-Lock off, then turned it on for the rest. I could handle it fine, but it just felt like work. I've never been a fan of precision aim
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I think you two are using different definitions of "Z-lock". Edwdig, this sentence:
makes me think you're confusing Z-lock with the whole concept of Z-targeting. Z-lock in OoT is when you don't have to hold the Z button to stay Z-targeted. Turning off Z-lock doesn't mean giving up Z-targeting altogether.
Or maybe I'm the one who's misinterpreting.
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Oh... I never knew there was an option to change that. Wish I knew that ~10 years ago
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If the system would suck without a Z button, but it DOES have a Z button, then you don't have a valid criticism.
Re:Why is there no -1 Wrong Moderation.... (Score:2)
Yes, It has that option if the thought of Shooters is too intimidating to you. This is on par with some of the "Auto-aiming" tricks used in other console and PC games to simplify it for a novice.
There IS a control option called "Advanced" that doesn
I'm a believer... (Score:3, Insightful)
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption is the closest to that organic movement I've experienced. It's still not perfect; the aim is a smidge twitchy, and it would be nice to be able to spin a bit more quickly. Those faults aside, it's deeply intuitive. No, it's not light-gun aiming, but neither is any other successful FPS scheme (rail shooters are the only games I've seen with light-gun aiming), so I don't know why anyone who's an FPS fan would complain about that. As I said, the slight jumpiness of the aiming means sniping isn't really do-able, but relative aiming is what anyone who has used a mouse control system is used to. Just hold the Wiimote at your side, where you're not tempted to look down the barrel, and let your wrist do the work...you'll adapt to it in an instant.
And yes, using the motion control for the grapple and combination locks and the like is *very* satisfying. Really, I highly recommend any FPS gamers out there to give this game a look. I think you'll like what you see.
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The Keyboard and Mouse is better then the dual analog control sticks. However dual analog is not jerky and mechanical. It is too slow f
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Kind of like real soldiers, so I don't consider that a loss. Almost all FPS are utterly ridiculous in modeling a human being. They model a cylinder with a bit of wobble and a gun, thats it. No legs or stuff that actually matters a lot in actual movement. What WASD+mouse has going for it is that it doesn't have restrictions, you can turn as fast as you want, you are not limited by the game, only by your mouse skills. Which might be i
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conversation wheel? (Score:2)
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"Let's talk this over."
"Can we do something else?"
"Shoot to kill."
Very straight forward. One's the nice option, once the intermediate option and the last is the knee-deep-in-the-dead option. Considering that dialog is often quite long, this is a far better option than displaying the entire text - not to mention that the latter option requires yo
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I'm not sure you really have less precision. How many dialog trees offer more than 6 options anyway?
And I can see your point about reading faster than listening, that's the case for me as well. On the other hand, for selecting my side of the dialog it does br
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The only problem with this system is when the actual response ends up saying more than you intended, which you would have known if it was fully spelled out. E.g. 'agree' turns into "I agree with Character X, and further more think Character Y is a blithering idiot for disagr
Super Mario Galaxy - Individual planetary gravity (Score:5, Insightful)
Video games have played with gravity in the past, but applying the concept of planetary gravity (with slightly non-realistic physics, but when you're orbiting around an ice cream cone, does it really matter?) to a 3-D platformer was the best idea I've ever played.
At some point I'm going to find the smallest, most isolated planet I can find and try to see how many times I can orbit it with a long jump.
That they did this without making me nauseous also deserves some sort of award. I seriously wonder how they did it.
Re:Super Mario Galaxy - Individual planetary gravi (Score:2)
Really? I've never gotten nauseous from any (non-VR) game before, not even from some of the weird infinite loops I'd fall into in Portal, but I actually feel sick to my stomach after playing Super Mario Galaxy.
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They removed some of the flexibility with the camera that Mario 64 enjoyed. With the camera more or less fixed, you didn't have to do a lot of mental compensation to figure out which direction to go.
(At least that's my humble observation...)
Re:Super Mario Galaxy - Individual planetary gravi (Score:2, Informative)
EVE (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm sure other companies have thought of upgrading their MMO's graphics engine. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I'm sure other MMO's have at least improved some part of their graphics. I think this top 10 list will find it's way in to my top 10 list of "Most Poorly Thought-out Top 10 Lists of 2007."
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And it goes without saying that the new zones use the new features.
Here's a shot from 2001..
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/everquest/eq/screens/eq_35.jpg [rpgamer.com]
And one today...
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/other/pc/eq/screens/eq57.jpg [rpgamer.com]
Blurry green texture vs tufts of grass, flat ground with ver
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Because, in addition to updating the rendering engine, they also re-modeled and re-textured nearly every object in the game, including every spaceship, starbase (exterior & interior), and stargate. That's almost everything in the game that a player would care about. I don't know of any other MMO that has attempted anything that ambitious.
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#5 - EvE Online? (Score:2)
Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
Unimpressed (Score:2)
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I haven't played Mass Effect, but I did play KOTOR and Jade Empire and the dialog system in Mass Effect looks quite a bit different. For one thing KOTOR and Jade Empire are awfully black&white, you can do good thing and bad things, but basically never anything in the gray area, which makes all the dialogs feel very forced and unrealistic. Also your hero never talks in either game, other then indirectly through your dialog choices, which isn't
Killing off single player is a good thing? (Score:2)
Yes, this generation of game consoles are the first to really take advantage of online connectivity and do it well, but forcing gamers to go online just to even play your game isn't exactly going to sell games by itself. Look what happened to "Shadowrun" after gamers learned it was multiplayer only... it flopped.
Aside from that, did this author completely overlook the MMORPG genre? This is about the only game for
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When users buy a next-generation game title, they expect not only better graphics, but better gameplay with more sophisticated enemies/allies to play with. When filling these characters' shoes with a human player isn't possible, game companies have to invest a lot of extra time and money into developing far more flexible AIs that can intelligently think for themselves on the fly, and do so with varying levels of
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Perpetual development (Score:2)
Blah blah FPS blah (Score:2)
Metroid Prime, at least in its original incarnation (I've recently (finally) finished the first, but not played 2 or 3) isn't an FPS in any meaningful sense. It's a first-person explore / puzzl
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1) A keyboard is strictly digital buttons. It's no where near as precise as an analog stick for movement.
2) Ease of access. You have plenty of keys, but a giant grid of keys isn't nearly as easy to use as something you wrap your hand around that has buttons placed so that they can be easily reached without confusion. Keyboard keys require more force and press down further than controller buttons, making them not as fast to hit. When you're trying to use 26 keys with one hand, it's easy for your h
Re:(Enter asinine subject you think is witty here. (Score:2)
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Ah-ha! Now I understand what people mean about an "American sense of humour". :-)
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Then Wacom came out with the Cintiq http://www.wacom.com/pendisplays/index.cfm [wacom.com] but to my knowledge they don't work either.
I read that without a d in the middle word of that URL and then started thinking that penis play would be a pretty neat game control mechanism, but discriminating against the girl gamer.