Bobby Fischer Is Dead At 64 377
A number of readers wrote in to make sure we know that former world chess champion Bobby Fischer has died in Reykjavik, Iceland, where he had lived since 2005. No cause of death was given.
If all the world's economists were laid end to end, we wouldn't reach a conclusion. -- William Baumol
Did He Go To Heaven or Hell? (Score:2, Funny)
Why such hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
That and a few other choice comments attributed to him make me want to say, good riddance. It is such a travesty to see such greatness overshadowed by blantant and raving bigotry. I don't care how good at chess he was anymore, the world doesn't need to celebrate assholes like this just because "they were once great"
It really sounds like he succumbed to hate and had to disappear at times simply because he knew he couldn't exist in the real world
Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, the man succumbed to mental illness. Hopefully you're never in a position to pass any meaningful judgement on people who have these kinds of issues.
Or what would you tell the readers on this site that lay claims to having Asperger's syndrome or a close relative of such? Would you tell them that it serves them right and that they're just a bunch of misfits?
If anything Fischer's legacy outside of chess should be to show people that extreme talent and insight in a small area gives no one any special insight into anything else. Maybe actors and singers should take note of that.
Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
And PHDs, Pastors, MDs or anyone else highly educated speaking of fields like an expert where they aren't.
Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
Fischer's demise is oddly similar to that of Luzhin from The Defence [wikipedia.org] novel by Nabokov. The main character was also a genius chess player that was drifting between the clear mind and the insanity. What's even more odd is that the novel dates back to early 1930s.
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Bigotry is a mental illness, wouldn't you say?
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Yeah, he really does, a cursory glance at his own homepage [att.ne.jp] should be enough to confirm that.
I mean, holy crap -- this is not your regular hatemonger. Even the Icelandic government, which gave him Icelandic nationality to get him out of detention in Japan, is "filthy dirty CIA-controlled" because the prime minister refused to personally intervene in his personal banking conflict.
Poor man, he knew not what he did. The pressure clearly got to him. Let's rem
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Yes, I long for days of yore, when politicians were experts who had deep insight into their subjects and consistently made good choices.
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dealing with mental issues (Score:5, Insightful)
Every four years I vote in the American presidential election.
Pat Robertson... (Score:2)
And it seems every year more so...
My wife, who is a nurse, made a comment about wondering if he might be suffering from mental illness.
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We have a ton we just don't know yet. It's going to be an interesting trip.
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You can't imagine what it was like in his head, nor can I. If you don't have full capacity of controlling your mind, how can you be held accountable for what it does?
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Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Insightful)
That and a few other choice comments attributed to him make me want to say, good riddance.
He was certainly a huge dick, and a bigot to boot. But AFAIK all he ever did was rant and talk. Not exactly someone you wish dead. In a word, "Mostly Harmless".
I have to say, the world is a slightly less interesting place with Bobby Fischer not in it.
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Hitler gassed a lot of Jews personally, did he?
Oops, I lose.
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rj
Re:Why such hate? (Score:4, Interesting)
It makes no sense at all to discuss his pronouncements on current events as if there were any possibility he would express any understanding of their human dimensions. It's not hate, it's indifference. And it's not really very far removed from the kind of indifference that is politically acceptable because its common. The only reason people don't sound so callous when they discuss war or economic policy is because they're tuned to the same wavelength as the others around them. They know what kinds of real things seem real and what kinds of real things seem unreal to the people they're talking to, hardly the kind of nuance you'd expect a mind like Bobby Fischer's to grasp.
Bobby Fischer had pretty good reason to hate the American government. The indifference to the suffering of others thrown in with that is not particularly shocking, and the fact that he let it show publicly just demonstrates his utter lack of tact, a quality that in all probability he never felt the need for. The antisemitism was just garden variety self-loathing, obviously ugly as well as bat-shit crazy, but not so incomprehensible.
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The only reason people don't sound so callous when they discuss war or economic policy is because they're tuned to the same wavelength as the others around them. They know what kinds of real things seem real and what kinds of real things seem unreal to the people they're talking to, hardly the kind of nuance you'd expect a mind like Bobby Fischer's to grasp.
Huh. That's probably the most insightful thing I've read in months.
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I'm just curious, how can you possibly make such a statement? Self-loathing? crazy? You've obviously made many subjective defamatory statements against this dead man, but these particular ones I believe deserve some explanation.
We have a particular people who have never lived in peace with their neighbors in the entire history of their existence. Are we to believe that everyone wh
Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Informative)
Fischer's mother was Jewish, which technically makes him Jewish. It is probable that his biological father was Jewish as well.
Therefore being an anti-semite is a form of self-loathing for him.
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Didn't Jesus say something to that effect? That ought to
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Be careful when discrediting others based on their flaws alone. Fischer is the archetype of chess masters, the platonic ideal of such.
I used to love to say to others, "Deep Blue never played Bobby Fischer."
Fischer's final years, much like Nietzsche, were fogged by mental illness. Give the man a break, and celebrate his achievements alone without besmirching his name. My god, placing such a n
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Re:Why such hate? (Score:5, Interesting)
I never said anything bad about Bobby Fischer, but judging from the articles I'm seeing, he's said plenty bad about me as a Jewish-American. Why should I shed tears over the guy? Or is it somehow different when you spew rhetoric against groups rather than individuals?
Re:Why such hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why such hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't want to defend his antisemitism (at all), but everything I've heard about the man suggests he might have been suffering from serious, and untreated mental illness.
In which case, I just try to have some empathy towards him and whatever was rattling around in his head. I have a cousin with Schizophrenia, and I wouldn't really judge him by "normal" rules for being accountable for his behaviour. In fact, his doctors have removed him from society mostly indefinitely, and have done so for almost 20 years.
It is entirely possible Bobby Fisher was somewhat delusional but still functioning high enough not to be under more direct care.
Sorry, this isn't from a Jewish perspective, so I don't mean to ask you to forgive what you cannot. Just trying to give a different perspective on the matter.
Cheers
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Like many artists, scientists, and other great thinkers his personal life was a mess, his personal opinions muddled and ugly. But his accomplishments will remain long after his death; immensely talented as a chess player and his victory during the height of th
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Re:Why such hate? (Score:4, Insightful)
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So Kasparov IS close to Fisher.
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God (Score:4, Funny)
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Turn in your geek card (Score:2)
It's checkm8! He's p0wn3d!
Truly Unfortunate (Score:5, Insightful)
From an admirable chess player early on, he showed signs of mental instability. But really, who hasn't from time to time? He made absurd demands to move Moscow closer to the ocean or make the sun set sooner for his convenience when he appeared at the famous game. I've read accounts that make him sound borderline autistic. Although he seemed to have much more cognitive powers
I wish I could erase the last half of Bobby Fischer's life from history. I wish he never touched a radio station's microphone. His proclamation that the September 11th attacks were "wonderful news [wikipedia.org]" and calling for the US to be destroyed, his several radio aired remarks against Jewish peoples and other disparaging remarks. Was this for attention? Was this really what he believed? I'm not sure what personally made him feel this way but living in Iceland under political asylum was not the way I wanted to see it end.
Unfortunate that he died. Even more unfortunate that he never came around to apologize and promote chess in schools and everywhere. We'll miss the young Bobby Fischer and always be a little confused about what happened to make him cross that fine line between ingenuity and insanity. Rest in peace, Bobby Fischer.
Re:Truly Unfortunate (Score:5, Interesting)
While two cases don't make a solid trend, you wonder how many slip under the radar.
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Ask the FBI, I'm sure they have a list somewhere.
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Fischer had some problems, but he had an absolutely amazing mind. He had some issues with the US Government. I've always suspected that they put a lot of pressure on him during his match with Spassky-- I can see why that might have made him sour towards the US. His hate of Jews seems to stem from his mother (who was Jewish), but nobody really
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Acute mental illness. For some reason, many people with paranoid schizophrenia find an outlet in antisemitism, like John Nash of A Beautiful Mind fame. I think the harshness of Fischer's comments should be tempered with consideration of the fact that he just wasn't well in the head. This is not a courtesy I extend to Mel Gibson.
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It still surprises me that people don't see a connection between the two. Could anyone become a chess grand master without being at least a little obsessive, autistic, or both? Is it possible to spend so much of one's life being the acknowledged best in the world at something as sophisticated as chess and not become rather self-centered as a result?
Better to
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We'll miss the young Bobby Fischer and always be a little confused about what happened to make him cross that fine line between ingenuity and insanity.
Bobby Fisher was somewhat deranged, but he was mostly egotistical and self-centered. There's a huge difference. Both halves of his life are defined by arrogance, egotism, and a belief that the world revolved around him. I think "autism" is trotted out far too often as a free hall-pass for people who just happen to be very good at something, and because
He should've played Go. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:He should've played Go. (Score:5, Funny)
Cause of death - Kidney Related (Score:5, Informative)
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here's his real homepage (Score:5, Informative)
mental illness is sad. 1 beer a day will not cure dementia.
Fischer was truly epic in his takedown of the Russian "machine". Then the American politicians screwed him for playing the immortal game during a temporal war.
In chess you don't have to die young to leave a good looking corpse you just have to get out of the spotlight while you're ahead. (Britney Spears take note.)
Well we have his radio rants happy about 11-9 but at least no bad chess games out of his prime.
she has more time in the spotlight (Score:3, Funny)
I think Britney Spears' chess career isn't over by a long shot. Remember that brilliant opening she made in her first game in last year's USCF championship?
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his real homepage
Was that really his own homepage, and was he its only webmaster? What is going to happen to his homepage now that its webmaster is dead? Will it just disappear like its webmaster after the server is left unpaid or unmaintained?
Just as we keep books published by dead poets and other authors, perhaps we (the Internet community) should have a way to preserve webpages of dead people. This is going to be of much more importance as more and more people get creative on the Internet (this is not to say that I
Checkmate Indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
"Checkmate", from the Persian "shah mat" meaning, "the king is dead".
Nintendo? (Score:2, Troll)
Yes, I know I'm pissing my Karma away posting this.
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I got half way through your first sentence and automatically assumed that you automatically assumed that it was Commodore related.
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I think most of us were too busy admiring the fact that 64 equals the number of squares on a chessboard.
Bobby Fischer (Score:3, Insightful)
Bobby Fischer was a great man of nothing.
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Really? I didn't know you had to be a humanitarian to be a great chess player, or to offer that skill to generations that followed you.
The chess-playing world will still be studying and learning from his games long after his bigotry has been forgotten and glossed over.
He had chess pains just before he died (Score:5, Funny)
He was just a Pawn in the struggle between Kings and Queens
thomasdz
One year for every square. (Score:5, Interesting)
Cause of death... (Score:4, Funny)
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One of the variants he played (and in fact adapted from an earlier chess variant) was called Chess960, in which the initial placement of the pieces is one of 960 random possibilities that still conserve the poss
cause (Score:2)
Disturbed Genius (Score:2, Informative)
To those many Americans wh
Mental Malfunction (Score:3, Interesting)
Lets not remember the man for his faults, which boil down to misapplied genius if not true biological mental illness. Instead, let's remember the man for the great intellect that he possessed, and let his later political endeavors serve as reminder to us all of what can happen when we analyze the world from too great a distance instead of simply living inside of it.
Vivere in pace, Mr. Fischer, wherever your soul now resides.
Boy's Life (Score:3, Interesting)
As for Fischerandom Chess, I had a similar idea years ago where each side arranged their first row into their own preferred order, which was then revealed to their opponent at the commencement of play. It was a combining of Chess with Stratego that I called Modern Chess. Of course, my idea never caught on since, unlike Bobby Fischer, I Am Not A Chess Grand Master.
I'm sorry that his views over the later years became so hard to justify, or even understand in any rational sense, but I'll always remember my first contact with his name.
I guess he checked out, mate. (Score:2)
I wonder what he was like as a person and what his legacy will be.
Did he write any books or teach anyone or found any institutes or foundations?
Did he have any children?
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We warned, tho, it's not for the casual chess player. I read it at a point when I studied a lot of chess and considered myself (and was considered by others) to be a pretty good chess player. As far as chess books go it's a pretty hard read. Also note that according to one of the Amazon reviewers that there are several editions of t
On the 23,425th day God said ... (Score:2)
Fischer versus the New England Patriots (Score:3, Funny)
A story from Bobby's youth.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bobby was living in New York City as a teenager and playing chess at an amazingly high level. He was also, clearly, a mentally troubled young man, and many of his chess playing friends noticed the instability as well as the genius. A number of friends convened a meeting and discussed taking up a collection to try to get Bobby some professional psyciatric help, which it was clear he needed even then. The meeting is going along, and most agree to encourage Bobby to get help.
Towards the end of the meeting, someone asks "What if Bobby gets well and stops playing good chess?" The meeting then breaks up and nothing ever came of it.
In many ways, Chess is about black versus white. My former chess teacher always prefered that we use the terms "light" and "dark" squares, rather then black and white, and I think it makes a very apt metaphor for Bobby's life. He lived some of his life on the light squares, accomplishing one of the greatest mental-athletic endeavors of all time. For this, he is rightly lionized as one of the great geniuses of the 20th century. He also led many of his years on the dark side of the board as well. Homeless in Los Angeles. Travling around penniless and without recognition for over 20 years. Finally reaping considerable financial rewards in Yogoslovia at the cost of his freedom.
Finally, people note that Bobby in his later years was an anti-semite and said some truly disturbing things. Yet that's not how I see it. Rather than spiteful, his ramblings should be chalked up to the mental illness that clearly ravaged his brain throughout his later life. Just as the deranged homeless man on street should be pitied, so should Bobby. He lived in the largely Jewish chess community of New York for years, and while he may have had issues, his hatred of Jews only reached full blown proportions as his mental health declined. Clearly, he did not suffer fools. But I see no evidence that his dislike for stupid people was anything other than color/creed blind until later in life. Truly, these were the untreated manifestations of the illness that his chess colleagues recognized all those years ago in New York.
RIP Bobby, and I hope that you find the peace in the next world (whether that be in the big chess board in the sky or simply as worm food) that eluded you in this one.
Game of the Century (Score:4, Interesting)
You can see a version with commentary [bobby-fischer.net] or an interactive chessboard version [chessgames.com].
Re:reason for death (Score:5, Informative)
re:reason for death (Score:3, Funny)
ed
Re:reason for death (Score:4, Funny)
Re:reason for death (Score:4, Funny)
You know, if Fischer knew he might die there, he could at least have had some fun by writing on his hand something like:
Fischer B
Was Hijacked
In Rekjavik ICL
16.1.08, 21:00
Came to ICL
by fly BA 504
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His death, is a loss to the chess world but every time someone does the King's Pawn opening we will be paying a slight homage to the man.
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Mourn the passing of his younger self, and feel free to despise his older self.
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Mourn the passing of his younger self, and feel free to despise his older self.
Fans of the Highlander series are especially adept at selective memory such as this.
Who is mourning? (Score:2)
He beat the Soviets at their own game in the middle of the Cold War. Think Jesse Owens and you may understand how massive was his victory (and before some idiot even suggests it, I am not comparing both men, but I am certainly comparing their respective achievements and what they meant on the day).
To sit down and replay some of his games is pure magic, and that is why chess is so magnificent, be
i think someone's character (Score:2)
look at michael vick, or oj simpson: because they played well at a game they should be excused for their character issues?
that's what i hear in your statement to me about bobby fischer
his chess playing ability, no matter how genius, does not eclipse the judgment that must be passed on his hate and bigotry
where did i spit on anyone's grave? (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjbaSVXUq5c [youtube.com]
dude (Score:2)
you simply attack all bigotry, in all its forms
bobby fischer spewed hate. therefore, he is worthy of censure. it really doesn't get any more complicated than that. any other hate spewed anywhere else by anyone else does not excuse him
Re:Good Riddance (Score:4, Insightful)
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He came out of obscurity once, in 1992, to play Boris Spassky. Obviously Spassky was a grandmaster (once you've earned the title you don't lose it) but he wasn't "the" grandmaster (whatever that might mean - did you mean "world champion"?). Spassky was not a particularly strong GM by 1992 (at least by elite chess standards). There is no compelling reason to believe that Fischer was the best player
Re:Greatest player of all time (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't correct. From 1963-68 for a variety of reasons (some of them relating to his religious beliefs at the time), he rarely played, but he played well when he did play. Then in 1969 he got serious about competing for the World Championship and returned to full time active play. After winning the championship in 1972 he essentially permanently retired from chess by simply refusing to play again, coming out of retirement only in 1992 to beat Spassky (the guy he defeated in 1972 for the championship) again in a rematch. Spassky at this time had long stopped being a top notch player and was probably at best in top 70 or so chess players, possibly even lower than that. So to say that Fischer "would come out of obscurity to beat whoever was the current Grandmaster" is completely inaccurate, but he certainly did disappear again.
By the way, there are many "Grandmasters" in chess. While compared to average guy on the street they are chess playing geniuses, there are at any time multi-hundreds of grandmasters in chess. I've known of US ones who were quite good on the US scene and absolutely nothing in terms of their international standing.
While many Americans would love to believe that Fischer was the greatest chess player ever, certainly it was really Garry Kasparov. If some thought that Anatoly Karpov (the man that Fischer lost his title to in 1975 by refusing to play) was better than Fischer, I wouldn't argue it. Karpov was a truly great player. Fischer was truly excellent, but he only played a very limited number of openings with both the white and black pieces. Kasparov and Karpov excelled at all openings with white and black. One of Fischer's favorite defenses with black, the Benoni, has been mostly discredited since his championship title in 1972. The Benoni basically is a losing defense for black if white plays what is called the "Four Pawns Attack" against it. This method of attack by white has never been successfully answered by the black pieces. In fact, this attack is so fearful that most Benoni players will transpose into the Benoni from other openings only after it becomes impossible for white to use this method. No grandmaster is brave enough to start the Benoni from the first move for fear of white adopting the Four Pawns Attack against it. Fischer was a specialist in a very limited repertoire of white and black moves and Karpov and Kasparov could play anything. I'd personally place him 2nd of all time behind Kasparov.
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