Videogames Doomed for a 'Comics-like Ghetto'? 354
At the Newsweek blog LevelUp, journalist N'Gai Croal wrote this week about the sometimes-precarious position of videogames in popular culture. The frustrations of legislators, lawyers, and 'pro-family' groups aside, the popularity and record sales of the gaming industry would seem to indicate rising stock for gaming as an art form in the US. And yet, there are some folks who see gaming as just another fad, which in some time will be equal in popularity to comic books or tabletop roleplaying. N'Gai starts to form his response by noting that learning to play videogames is considerably easier than developing an appreciation for literature of any kind. He then goes on to note that the (oft-cited) lack of weighty subjects in gaming is more due to the 'pop culture' nature of the hobby than the medium itself. "Popular fiction generally outsells literary fiction. Summer blockbusters generally out-gross arthouse films. Is this any different from, say, Call of Duty 4: Modern Combat out-NPD-ing BioShock last year, or Madden doing the same to Shadow of the Colossus in 2005?" He discusses some ways to address that, but do you have any solutions? Or are games doomed to be the playthings of adolescent boys for the rest of the century? (And yeah, I resent the 'comics ghetto' label too.)
Not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
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You might want to educate yourself [wikipedia.org]
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When The Tetris Company screws with Tetris (Score:4, Interesting)
- infinite spin [ytmnd.com] (explained [tetrisconcept.com]),
- spin triples [ytmnd.com] (explained [tetrisconcept.com]), and
- a randomizer that lets you play forever [ytmnd.com] (explained part 1 [tetrisconcept.com] and part 2 [tetrisconcept.com]).
It's a good thing that there are still fan games that let the player screw back [pineight.com].Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Interesting)
OK I'll bite:
The Bard's Tale
Wasteland
Pirates!
Nethack
Dune 2
Master of Magic
Warcraft
Civilization
Tie Fighter
System Shock 2
Half-Life
GTA Vice City
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Bear in mind that Shakespeare was not writing solely for a sophisticated, intellectual elite. He's rightly remembered as one of the crowning glories of human cultural achievement, but when he sat down to write his plays, a large part of his thought was given to how the material would play in front of the half-drunk crowd in the pit in the Globe.
Shakespeare's genius was to create superlative works of art which still appealed to the mass market. He blended in cheap puns and sight gags along with his sophisticated plots and deep philosophical allegories, and made it all work perfectly. That's something we've yet to see in games - we have the occasional Planescape: Torment, but when we do it's never a hit - but then, we rarely enough see it anywhere else. Shakespeare is the kind of thing that happens once a century or so, and gaming's only been around for thirty years.
That is the problem of games. (Score:2, Interesting)
No wonder nobody is taking it seriously as an art form.
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Unfortunately, Looking Glass Studios closed their doors several years ago.
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They are everywhere. And with everything, to each his own. Show me a Rembrandt, play me some Bach, recite Shakespeare. What if they don't speak to me? What if I find no value in them. Perhaps it's not for a lack of looking. Perhaps there isn't any and someone at some point decided to make something up to sound enlightened and the masses just followed along.
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An artist can work as a waiter during the day and write his great novel at night. When he is done with the novel, after a few years, he can take a couple more years to be reco
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Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
Like the old joke about watching movies; I'll wait for the book to come out.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
As another thing I just remembered.. try out a decent MUD sometime. A MUD (Multi User Dungeon) is a multiplayer text based RPG, a few of them aspire to be roleplay oriented (as opposed to combat oriented), and have some nice prose in their world descriptions that make the game world feel like a living book.
As far as the premise of this article goes.. what a load of crap. People have always played games. Humans enjoying leisure time not a fad. Games have opened up a whole new realm of possibilities for our leisure time, and their scope keeps widening (look no further than the Wii for example, though then look at Grand Theft Auto IV and be amazed at the way a whole city has been modelled and the amount of different activities you can do, from just driving around admiring the view, to playing pool, delivering pizzas, yada yada..). But meh.. if you want to close your eyes to the possibilities here then go ahead, keep to your linear little books, keep letting someone else do your thinking for you
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Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Informative)
I would be curious to see a comparison of total man-hours spent enjoying WoW or EVE vs total man-hours spent watching a production of a Shakespeare play. Wow has about 6.5 million players, [arstechnica.com] if we assume a safe average of 100 hours played per player [parc.com] WoW has been played for 605 million man-hours. Meanwhile, In 1600 the population of London was 200,00 by 1700 the population of London was about 600,000 [demographia.com] So assuming every single person in London saw two productions of Shakespeare every year, that's only about 200 million man-hours of Shakespeare enjoyed in 100 years. I would say that by some measures WoW is already a greater cultural influence that Shakespeare.
I really roughed in these numbers (but do have sources), if someone who is better at figuring these things would be so kind as to try to supply some better total estimates I appreciate it.
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err. 650 million man-hours...
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Well we'll see if people are referencing and playing WoW in 400 years, then we can compare it to Shakespeare.
Personally I don't think that millions of people mindlessly drooling at a screen like zombies playing a game they probably hate and only play because they're addicted and just have to get that next sword/armour/scroll, counts as cultural influence, but that's just my opinion.
WoW won't go down as a classic,
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Games have always been about competition, one way or another. Those games which are only single-player are, in a way, an aberration--sure, Final Fantasy games are wildly popular, but the people who buy 'em tend to like the 'interactive movie' aspect.
It's no real surprise that a game that offers extensive competition would outsell a game that, ultimately, requires you to sit alone for long periods of time. Beautiful graphics and engaging stories are a great thing, don't ge
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Not everyone wants to compete in a game, either....or at least not in the fashion you are referring to. I play games to see EVERYTHING. I love RPG games because of how much there is to see. I do every side quest. I save and pick various paths to see how they are different. I don't have a problem with walkthroughs and cheats (in single player RPGs - but only when stuck) because I'm more interested in seeing all of the content than I am in feeling like I "beat" the game.
Layne
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, this is true. I'd rather play a game like Mass Effect than sit through any kind of passive entertainment. The interactivity adds a level of entertainment that no movie can match.
People need the social aspect of games. They need to compete against each other. If you don't have some sort of socialization and competition in a game, it's not going to sell nearly as well as one that has those aspects.
I think you're projecting. You may need the socialization and the beer and pretzels aspect to enjoy a game, but if I'm playing a game, I'm doing it to avoid people, not to spend more time around them than I already have to. I've been there and done that w/r/t being a socially oriented person and it just doesn't interest me anymore. Different strokes, etc.
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I love Halo, but for me, the backstory just gets in the way of gameplay.
It's a FPS at heart, so why do I need to know how and why the Flood got on the ring?
I'm with Vasquez on this one... "I only need to know ONE thing, man... where they are!"
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Just in case you needed a fix. I'm not trying to exacerbate your addiction, honest...
Wii and Guitar Hero.... (Score:2)
Video games are still relatively new (Score:2, Interesting)
If video games see a similar development, maybe in 50 years or so they will be seen as wholesome entertainment for the whole family?
Entertainment, and education (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Entertainment, and education (Score:4, Interesting)
supply and demand (Score:4, Insightful)
Right now, the gaming industry is moving a lot of units. There are also a lot of really good games out there now, too. Is this because it's a lucrative market or is the market lucrative because of the good games? Again, an argument that really doesn't matter to anyone that's not trying to get ad clicks.
In summary, if you like to play games, play them. If you don't, no one's forcing you to. No big deal. Life's short. Get some fresh air now and then too...
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And also console games are made. What a waste if you cant upgrade them and make content for them (and no, DRM does not count, ask those xboxers).
Ill look at your games if the following occurs..
Cheap - 30$ or so, you compete with movies and music... both of which can be easily gotten for free
Extensible - Do
Re:supply and demand (Score:4, Insightful)
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Who cares? Gamers do! The games industry do! Whether they're popular or not strongly affects our chances of playing video games in the future. Even if there is demand, the more demand we have, the more choices we will get in which games we want to play. In other words, popularity is everything to the future of gaming.
Education occurs whether its intended or not (Score:2)
Art (Score:5, Funny)
Everything else is just "folk art". But we just call it "art" to make the simpletons feel better. They aren't good enough to begin to understand Art.
Re:Art (Score:4, Funny)
Exclusive yes, expensive not. (Score:2)
I don't know what some folks have about exclusivity, to achieve something exclusive requires hard work and dedication.
If you think you are going to fully understand a fugue by Johann Sebastian Bach, an opera by Wagner or a painting by Michelangelo just by being stupid and don't making any effort, well, be my guest, I am nobody to i
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I think some kids are on your lawn, you'd better go scare them off.
Violence (Score:3, Insightful)
Not everybody is even good at the gameplay mechanisms required. Portal is intellectually challenging with its puzzles, but the coordination required makes it hard for a lot of people to play it. I think adventure games had this right all allong: a simple interface, gameplay that involves puzzle solving and curiosity, and the opportunity to create a good story driven by the player. Instead we have shoot shoot, a cutscene with story here, shoot shoot more shooting.
It's gettign better, but it's not there yet.
Re:Violence (Score:4, Interesting)
The majority of games are of the puzzle/Tetris variety. Bejeweled was far more popular (in terms of users, and hours played) than the top-rated FPS, and I'd guess that MS Solitaire comes pretty close behind it.
Re:Violence (Score:5, Interesting)
I bet the 2 most popular games, in terms of man-hours spent playing it, are minesweeper and solitaire.
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video games as art? (Score:5, Informative)
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070721/COMMENTARY/70721001 [suntimes.com]
There are some good thoughts in there even though Ebert is definitely in "Get off my lawn" territory.
I love the Half-Life series. I think there's a lot of wit and intelligence and creativity there that you don't see in a lot of other games. But every time I sit down to play a new episode I inevitably think: "It's just a First Person Shooter." Portal gets even higher marks for creativity. The way they develop the GLaDOS character and the use of plot twists and the out-of-left-field use of music is brilliant. But is it art?
I guess I tend to think of video games being "artful" rather than "art".
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To a large part art is vetted by time, just like all things. We really don't kn
At the risk of sounding elitist... (Score:5, Insightful)
As an example, after hearing so much about the Sandman chronicles, I browsed through one. I found the art disappointing, and the story mildly interesting. However, it was still miles beyond any of the DC and Marvel comic books next to it.
Yes, there are great examples of American comic artists - Frank Miller comes to mind. But they are the vast exception in a sea of mediocrity.
This is also why I think that videogames will escape ghettoization - they are a worldwide phenomenon, and this alone will prevent them from sliding into a state that is as narrowly focused as american comics. To some extent, I think they already have. I can think of a number of games that are more art than game - Psychonauts, for one. Okami, for another.
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~Jarik
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http://forbiddenplanet.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/P%20Craig%20Russell%20Ramadan%201.jpg [forbiddenplanet.co.uk]
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Personally I wasn't impressed with much of Sandman before "Dolls House" where it looked like every issue had another DC character forced into the story for some sort of crossover. Once again however Sandman finished about ten ye
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You can extend this argument to classical music BTW:
The ba
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there's no feeling (Score:3, Insightful)
he looked at me and said "maybe you and i aren't as affected by it because we actually read".
the cinema, theatre, and music can all be as deeply stirring as a good novel. comic books don't seem to get it most of the time, but there are "graphic novels" that attempt to speak in an adult way about adult situations.
games are just another popular art form, for better or for worse.
Re:there's no feeling (Score:5, Interesting)
Moreover games are an EMERGING popular art form, most emerging art forms are effectively shunned by the mainstream art world until they BECOME the mainstream. Video games as a medium are only a few decades old, and as a MASS market medium only a decade or so.
Look at the history of movies and movie making for example, how many directors, actors or script writers were recognized as artists in 1920 or 1930? Compare that with the explosion of the art form in the 50's and 60's. Note also the parallel between the censorship that occurred then with film that is now beginning with games.
People who DO look at the best of the gaming world as an art form and appreciate it as such are becoming more and more common, and as that progresses so will it's recognition by the mainstream art world. This is probably not something that will happen overnight, I expect it will take years or decades... but I wouldn't be at all surprised if 50 years from now there was not a gaming equivalent of the academy awards where some otherwise unknown will get the "Best Rendering in a Simulated World" and getting a script writing credit on the "Game of the Year" is as valued as much as one for a major film.
Patience Grasshopper, waiting is... you grok?Welcome to 1936! (Score:5, Insightful)
When film first began, it was a widely accepted fact that it would never be an art form. To a large degree, this was because people mistook temporary technical limitations for inherent artistic ones. "Film is silent and in black and white, and theater is in color with sound. Film will therefore always be an inferior version of the stage, at best." Indeed, film was generally seen as nothing more than lowbrow entertainment for illiterates, immigrants, and other types deemed inferior by meanstream society.
But then technicians solved more and more of the technical problems--allowing filmmakers to tell longer stories, and to film in more settings--and meanwhile, filmmakers were learning more and more about the possibilities of this new art form. Even before sound and color, you were beginning to have masterpieces that were recognized as works of art. Birth of a Nation was the first one, although it seems crude (and horribly racist) by modern standards. But by the time you got to the 1920s, people were making films that can still move modern audiences. Yet it took another decade or two for highbrow literary critics to catch on to this explosion of creativity.
The comparison to games is pretty obvious, I think. Technical developments are allowing better and better visual effects, and game makers are getting more and more sophisticated about exploiting the strengths of the form and working around the weaknesses. I would say that Doom was the gaming world's equivalent of Birth of A Nation--a work of tremendous energy that synthesized a whole lot of already existing elements into something that felt new and exciting. And I would say Deus Ex and Thief were like the films of the early 1920's--one day they will be classics, but when they came out, they were still part of a particular artistic ghetto. And now videogames are catching up to the films of the late 1920's/early 1930s--they are very sophisticated, and the outside world is just beginning to wake up to their merit.
One last thought: if commercial gaming began in 1972 with Pong, then the medium is 36 years old. If commercial film began in 1896 with the Lumiere brothers, then it would have been 36 years old in 1932. Which means that videogaming is evolving right on schedule. This means we can expect the Citizen Kane of the videogame world sometime in the next five or six years...
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But I can admit there are some problems with that comparison. Torment had classic characters, a fascinating story, and important themes. But it was still held back somewhat by technical limitations and a little bit of a clunky game engine. Maybe it is the 'Birth of a Nation' analogue... a promising glimpse at what might someday be done.
If that game had been done today, with the technical
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he looked at me and said "maybe you and i aren't as affected by it because we actually read".
Your friend is quite wrong. I've read a great many books in my time, and still do. I wasn't touched by the plot point of FF7 you mentioned, but I was extremely moved by the plot of the game as a whole.
If you aren't moved by the plot of something, it's rather pretentious to presume it's because you're too good for it (or some other similar sentiment), isn't it? Apparently the plot (or plot point) wasn't very interesting to you... but that has precious little to do with how much you read, it's just how tha
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On that note,to claim that books are more sophisticated or developed, etc is a bit of an unfair fight. Books and music have been around for centuries and centuries. Does it surprise you that they have diversified themselves more than comics and videogames?
Plus, I'd say that in the case of videogames there are real limits on what can be produced, as in hardware, input
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a friend of mine who is a fellow bookworm were talking several years back, and i told him about how i hadn't been touched by the plot of final fantasy 7 in the way that a lot of other people had (there's a touching bit where the female lead character dies and i had heard from several people who had said they'd been deeply moved by it).
As your friend mentioned, both of you actually read. This generally means that you've been exposed to a larger quantity of plot events and twists that some games are now beginning to implement.
The scene you mentioned where the character dies is considered a cliche and isn't as touching as it could be. In particular, I find it silly rather than touching because of the following:
Like comic books in America? (Score:2, Insightful)
Part of the reason why comic books, at least in the United States, aren't accorded as much respect as an art form can probably be traced back to the hysterical allegations of Dr. Fredric Wertham in his book Seduction of the Innocent. In short, he claimed that within those pulp pages, the amount of violence, of innuendo and sex, and the like would twist and stunt the growth of the children
d) All of the above (Score:5, Interesting)
My own take is that gaming is a very broad medium - possibly even beyond film. We see in the film industry a single medium containing both Requiem For A Dream and Dumb and Dumberer. Miller's Crossing and Sister Act 2: Back In The Habit.
Games (not "entertainment software", games, damnit) cover a similar spectrum, even if the high-brow fare is a bit thin on the ground right now. Such was the case for film when that industry was gaming's current age.
At this point in time much of the gaming industry occupies the same functional niche as pornography - people go home after an exhausting day at work, have a beer, demolish noobs on Team Fortress 2 to relax, and then go to bed. But the existence of pornography in film does not prevent that medium from providing works of real intellectual and artistic substance. Neither does gaming as pornography - both literally and metaphorically - hinder the development of deeper experiences.
I think if anything gaming provides the potential for experiences of greater power than film because we can develop both narrative-driven and sandbox experiences for our audience. We've seen the promise of the latter in GTA*, Oblivion, and I believe we'll see more of it in Spore. We've witnessed an outstanding achievement in the former named Call of Duty 4 - and my hat is off to Infinity Ward for such an amazing work. Beyond the singleplayer, massively multiplayer games can also provide a great range of experiences - from Ultima Online's open-ended fantasy simulation to Planetside's extremely structured gameplay.
We will get gaming to the level where it can be taken seriously as a work of art. We are getting it to that level. Right this moment. Your patience, please.
*I am a Take 2 employee, blah blah blah the opinions expressed here do not reflect the views of my employer etc. etc. ad nauseum.
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not a great comparison (Score:2)
You could probably make a decent argument that some genres of video games have already fallen into a 'ghetto'. Flig
Lack of weighty subjects? PSHAW! (Score:5, Funny)
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The Perfect Setup (Score:5, Insightful)
As a species we've been playing games far before we started reading, and surely we will continue far after we stop.
Art? Maybe. Culturally Significant? Yes. (Score:2)
Most games are not art. Some games come close, most do not. It simply does not matter. A more important and useful question would be 'Are Vidoegames culturally significant?'. There are many things that are culturally significant that are not in any great way considered art.
World of Warcraft is not art in and of its self. But you can say that it is a common experience s
Maybe If Kids Learned How To Read... (Score:3, Interesting)
So?
My son is so incredibly happy that he's picking up reading skills that the Nintendo and my wife's computer are almost growing dusty from lack of use while he spends his time reading dinosaur books, and Calvin & Hobbes. True, hardly great literature, but the fact is just because something's easier to do doesn't mean it's going to win outright.
Then again, maybe the issue isn't the kids... let's face it, movies with substance, with a message, with depth and meaning don't tend to make a lot of money, and thus either don't get made, or only get shown on select screens for two weeks, and then fade into obscurity. Transformers made HOW much money?
Narrative is much much older than gaming (Score:2)
This author is making a false assumption.
Narrative entertainment has many forms, and has evolved over thousands of years. From oral tradition, to plays, to books, to film, to comic books, etc. What do all these forms of entertainment have in common? Passivity. The viewer exercises no control over
Lowest Common Denominator Marketing (Score:2)
Unfortunately the business people (as opposed to the creative minds) will have the ultimate say in ho
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You could work your way up from mayor of your town to president of the world. You could choose which bribes to accept, who to lie to, and all the other fun things that come along with being a politician. Tell me that game wouldn't kick ass if it was done right.
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You just gave me an awesome idea! imagine this: Sim Politics.
You could work your way up from mayor of your town to president of the world. You could choose which bribes to accept, who to lie to, and all the other fun things that come along with being a politician. Tell me that game wouldn't kick ass if it was done right.
You just gave me an awesome idea! imagine this: Sim Suicide.
You could watch people play Sim Politics (or hey, even the real thing!) and then feel compelled to shoot yourself in the face.
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You could choose which bribes to accept, who to lie to, and all the other fun things that come along with being a politician.
Indeed, in a truly realistic simulation. I think we are seeing some of this in some online virtual worlds already, like terrorism (in the form of griefers [wikipedia.org]) and fraud (not living up to trade agreements). IIRC, I think the online version of Sim City was more politically based.
Sadly, I speak mainly from theory now, since I have very little time for games.
What is Art? Who Cares! (Score:2, Insightful)
As artists can't even agree on what is and isn't art when they're talking about art, it's unlikely we'll come to an agreement with games, but even if the vast majority of games are just there to be popular and fun, there will always be the Frank Millers and others who aren't as popular, but continue to create not because they just want the money, but because they want to actually create something artistic (choose some definition of art: your choice). Even if they don't sell as much, people have a natural in
Frankly... (Score:2)
Just ask grandma... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Does grandma read comics?
2) Does grandma play the Wii?
Translation... (Score:5, Interesting)
Odd - since quite young children seem to enjoy being told stories (which sounds like "developing an appreciation for literature" to me).
So, perhaps the translation is "The videogame industry has yet to fully develop a parasitic industry of critics who 'appreciate' video games by writing pretentious deconstructions of them".
Currently, so-called "reviews" of video games are just descriptions of what the game entails, whether the gameplay is compelling and the quality of the technical execution. Anybody who has "developed an appreciation for literature" knows that proper reviews are smug little essays designed to impress upon the reader the reviewer's extreme wit and cleverness while scrupulously avoiding saying anything informative about the actual work under review, but citing myriad other obscure works in the clear expectation that any worthy reader will be familliar with them all.
Once the videogame industry has evolved such critics, all that remains is to ensure that all 5th graders are forced to write 1000 word reports on the influence of the depiction of dwarves in "Colossal Cave" on the works of Scott Adams then videogames will be accepted into the pantheon of true art.
Comparison to chess. (Score:3, Insightful)
Games can be important, of interest to all people, and held in respect. Their "artistic" role however is generally to act as an inspiration for, or a metaphor within, a work of art. You'll be able to find references to chess in every art form humankind has ever devised. A game of chess could be animated, delivered in 3D with incredible graphics and audio, with chess pieces designed by a world class sculptor moving on a board designed by a reknowned architect, against a backdrop painted by a famous artist, to a soundtrack written by a talented composer, orchestrated by a genius and performed by a philharmonic orchestra. You could devise some sophisticated plot that is reflected in the almost infinite variety of moves the game allows.
And yet, most would still call it a game rather than a work of art. All the "art" mentioned is simply window dressing for the game itself. The chess pieces may be sculpture, but are not part of the game of chess as such.
So what would video games need to achieve recognition as a serious art form? I don't think we'll know until we've reached the point they've earned that status. Then we'll look back with hindsight and go, "This is what it means for a games to become high art". But I'll take a stab at how we'll know we've reached that point. Once lead game designers start to achieve general recognition for their games and their meaning, just as everyone's heard of Shakespeare, Dickens and Hitchcock (insert locally relevant artists here...) then video games will have achieved the same status as "art".
Once they have, we'll be able to look back to now and consider where it all started. But currently, it may just be that even examples of great art direction (I liked the atmosphere of Thief, personally) is really just great interior decoration for a game. Current technology does not allow for the finesse of expression of actors in a film, or oil paints on a canvas, after all, and rarely do you feel the game has been designed to tackle complex dramatic themes - most plots and scripts are fairly cliched, frankly. This could all change however as technology advances and designers / directors are freed up to work on the art rather than the mechanics of their creations.
Re:Comparison to chess. (Score:4, Insightful)
Video games simply can be so many different things that there really is no limit in what they can do. They can be as linear or as flexible as you want them or as playful as you want them. They can be a toy or a teaching tool or both or something completly different. They can even be a social meeting place.
Well in that case... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll leave determining what and what isn't art to the professional intellectual masturbaters
Re:You know what the best games are?? (Score:4, Funny)
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And no, We dont like GoldenEye much. We all agree that we hate Do-ya-blow with a passion, and never played MoO (read about it).
Magic is one of our favorites though. They like to pla
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His infinite sapling-deck was always a...favorite.
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Re:Label maker. (Score:5, Insightful)
Kids don't read comics anymore. Most comics readers _are_ over 30. I'm 23, and most people I see at the comic shop are older than me.
Re:Label maker. (Score:5, Informative)
Kids don't read comics anymore. Most comics readers _are_ over 30. I'm 23, and most people I see at the comic shop are older than me.
Now American comics, the print kind sold in stores, they petty much suck. Heroes in spandex, boring plots, recycled everything, yuck. But if you take a look at the manga section in bookstores, it's off the charts. There are plenty of young people reading comics, even girls! But it's manga they're going for. Since the American comics aren't developing a new audience, they have to enhance the value for older readers to keep them coming back, like the tobacco companies spiking the nicotine in ciggies. And that means more masturbatory aid females, more fan service, more pandering, just to keep the books moving. It doesn't help that rising prices have pushed comics out of the casual purchase territory for today's teens.
As for pencil and paper RPG's, the demographic is there, same as always, even bigger than before! But they're playing the games on computers now. Video games are poaching those dollars.
There are so many more companies competing for dollars compared to when I was a kid and compared to the previous decades before my time, it's even crazier. DVD's, video games, CD's, MMORPG's, cars, ipods, laptops, computers, not to mention books, comics, etc, too many things to split the entertainment dollar amongst.
Now if they want to talk about video games getting ghettoized, just look at the Wii. Old folks play it. Over the holidays, my sister brought her Wii along and the whole family enjoyed it. It's the first video game system my mom's liked since the Odyssey from the early 80's. Nintendo proved the market is there, companies just have to get inventive about serving it. Same goes for the comics. No self-respecting geek gamer wanted a Wii but it looks like the market is bigger than that. No self-respecting comic publisher would want to trade spandex heroes for yaoi but the girls are buying it up in droves. There are ways to make money, they just might not be the way the industry leaders want to make it.
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Re:Label maker. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the problem with American comics is that they just don't know when to end them. Ok, so you've got a character that's really popular like a Batman. Well crap, it would be best if you just rotated writers every few years and let them tell stories with beginnings, middles, and ends. When they try to keep the same thing going on for 50 years, you end up with continuity problems that make the dogma of the early Christian church look coherent. With something like Archie Comics, people accept that they're in a perpetual time warp where everyone is a teenager in an idealized 1950's world even though modern appliances appear. But when you're talking about a long-running American comic, everything goes to stupid-ville.
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eComics (Score:2)
I'd say this is because kids don't go to the comic shop, kids download eComics from torrent sites. Digital scans of comics distributed as comic book archives being read with specialized comics viewers are getting more and more common. eComics don't need physical storage space, are easy to carry around provided you have a laptop and don't have any wear and tear.
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I have that misconception that comics have to be about superheroes and villains and whatnot. And, Maus was required reading for our high school elective class studying Jewish history. I'm not Jewish, but it was a fascinating class. We were going to have a guest speaker who survived the death camps, but he was too frail to do so... That portion of our history is literally d
You forgot Daredevil (Score:2)