African Americans and the Video Game Industry 646
An anonymous reader writes "African Americans spend more money and time playing video games than whites, yet only 2% of game developers are black. This past week, MTV's Multiplayer blog interviewed five black game industry professionals for their perspective on race in the industry. Intelligent Gamer summarizes and highlights portions of this lengthy series of interviews."
Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who cares?
I never knew there had to be any specific percentage of "African-Americans" participating in any activity.
And yes, "African-American" is a downright stupid appellation. Can you call a black child born in Denmark "African-American"?
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only the US has a peculiar obsession with separating its population into ethnic groups.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since Denmark was mentioned, maybe you should read some news--there have been some major riots and political happenings there over religion/race within the past month!
I'm by no means claiming the US is perfect--it's not. But look at Australia--beach riots a year or two ago over Muslims. Look at France--ghettoization and discontent from Muslim/African populations that is hard to find an equivalent of in America in the last several decades. Balkans--banned from soccer matches for racist taunts. Chinese--discrimination against Uighur and Tibetan citizens. And where I've come across the most openly racist (against black Africans) people--Egypt. People don't even pretend.
Hell, if there is one constant across the world it's racism..
FWIW, I've heard Cuba actually has a remarkably egalitarian society--at least with regards to race--but it's so hard to hear reliable things about Cuba that I don't know..
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
What!
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Classifying people in such a way doesn't make sense. The only thing you can generalise about African Americans is that their skin is black. Grouping them into a sub-culture based on their ethnicity is really stupid, and a testament to the persisting prejudice that runs through the US. This is a perfect example of modern, widely practised, racism.
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Therefore, being born in Ethiopia and naturalized a Columbian makes one African-American.
Any other definition erodes the common language we rely upon. To simply call one an 'African-American' because of skin color implies that 'African-American' is a color which it is not but a hijacked term for what it really means. Might as well call people 'Red Armadillos', 'Striped Rhinos', or 'Musky Badgers' becaus
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Besides, you miss the point: by classifying people in this way, we presume that they share commonalities (such as culture or "rules" as the GP puts it) when in fact these things are stereotypes.
Put simply, why is an American with African heritage an African American, when a white American with European heritage is simply American?
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
The term "African-American" [wikipedia.org]
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Fact: That still doesn't mean everybody with black skin is African-American or that the term is any less nonsensical or over-used.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Fact: anyone who prefaces a statement with "Fact:" sounds like an arrogant jerk, even if they are right.
Any argument is implicitly presented as a truth, stating that it is fact is redundant.
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It is no more complicated than that.
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Would we get that same viewpoint from an aboriginal?
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
One of my classmates from high school spent five years in Alice Springs doing AIDS counseling for the local aboriginal population. He'd say you're full of it.
You might find that the young urban population is relatively tolerant. But from everyone I've talked to non-urban Australia is one of the most racist societies out there.
However, this is all word-of-mouth and hearsay so it proves nothing
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
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[Eldridge Cleaver Tone] We grind and we grind all day long only to have our gold stolen from us by these white pig 'developers'. They are afraid of an empowered, 31337 black guild. They are afraid of a dark Azerot
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Regarding black Americans and the notion of "well, let's just call them black Americans." True, you could do exactly that. But how is it more accurate? I'd venture to say that there are extremely few black people who are truly "black" skinned, and lots who are on the pale side of brown. They're just called "black" by convention, even if it's not 100% precise. Furthermore, America doesn't equal the USA, it's two continents. We call USA-ians "Americans" also by convention. There's no escaping it, we're stuck using a non-precise moniker one way or another. "African American" is just one more, and happens to be the one that people generally find less offensive when compared with Negro, Afro-American and nigger. It leads one to wonder, is the constant self-righteous outrage over the term "African American" based on logic (I've argued here, no) or based upon an anger that the blacks among us have the gall to object to being called whatever the hell we feel like calling them?
To answer the parent post's question directly, obviously black people in Denmark aren't African-Americans, just like Russians aren't Poles, even if they wind up in the same country. But if by chance a black person from Denmark moves to the US and gets called African-American, it's not going to cause the universe to self-destruct. Real world categories are heuristic, not absolute.
As for the pic of Chiwetel Ejiofor, who cares? Oops, maybe some ijit misidentified him as African American. What does that prove? I accidentally called my Scottish friend Irish one day, According to Genius Maddox, I guess my dumb mistake means that Scotland and Ireland don't make any sense.
Now, on to people of color. No argument from me: that's nauseatingly P.C.
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Wow, that's stirring up a hornet's nest. I'm calling BS, or at best "matter of taste", on that one buddy.
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Who cares?
I never knew there had to be any specific percentage of "African-Americans" participating in any activity.
And yes, "African-American" is a downright stupid appellation. Can you call a black child born in Denmark "African-American"?
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
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There is a common expectation that all races of humans of people have equivalent intelligence. There is no scientific basis for this assumption.
If you feel unconvinced by it, replace the word "intelligence" with "athletic ability" and see how you feel. I do hope that this does not bring the racists ou
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've told my Ethiopian (and decidedly black) boss that the clients I'm expecting are black, or reminded him that it was the black couple I'm refering to, not the Filipino or Chinese or White couples he saw me with earlier.
What other distinction am I supposed to make? "The tall people with dark hair and brown eyes"? From his office 40' from the front door he can observe their skin colour and estimate their height but their eyes are a tad more tricky.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
He has no problem being called black.
He also has no problem walking into bars declaring: "Where are da white wimmen at?". He thinks this (and the whole movie) is hilarious.
Only once did we run into trouble. Some 2nd generation+ born in America African descendants decided he wasn't "African enough". Some native tongue (No clue what it was) and some bouncers quickly ended that.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know that I've vocalized it but I've often wondered where the white women were at when I walked into a bar.
Let's devolve everything down to race. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Is this really surprising? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't this the natural result of the socio-econic situation of said racial group in the US, the high cost of college in the US, and the fact that most employers in said industry want a college degree?
Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is not about color, this is about money.
If you want to talk about race, talk about why more african-americans are poor. The games thing is just a symptom.
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Exactly. More african-americans are poor, and video games are a very cheap form of entertainment. Also, poor people have less educational opportunities. This is not about color, this is about money.
That certainly is a major factor, but I'm not convinced it is the only one. There is a lot of self-segregation in many industries. This is not to say that people are consciously being racist, just that race is also a social/cultural differentiator. I've worked places where one project team or division was almost entirely immigrants from Malaysia. Another place I worked had greater than 50% of the team graduated from the same University... one 600 miles away. Programming is one of those industries where pe
Re: Is this really surprising? (Score:5, Insightful)
What you are saying is the same thing Jack Thompson says about violent video games. Rap music doesn't turn you into a gangbanger any more than playing Counter Strike trains you to be a violent killer. Frankly, I am surprised you were modded up by the same people who would probably mod you way down if you were agreeing with Mr Thompson. Oh well...
Re: Is this really surprising? (Score:4, Informative)
This is a field of research that has gained a lot of attention in recent years, and a lot of good books have been done on the subject.
This is an up-and-comer:
http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Anticipation-Psychology-Expectation-Bradford/dp/0262582783/ref=pd_sim_b_title_4 [amazon.com]
There have been several studies done verifying that listening to complex, harmonious music (i.e. beethoven, bach, mozart, iron maiden, gnr etc.) sparks intelligence and creativity, while listening to someone talk over a one beat drum machine (e.g. Nelly, NAS) lowers intelligence and dulls creativity. Playing a musical instrument is even better for you. Just do a quick search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=music+makes+you+smart [google.com]
As a matter of fact, Beethoven's 5th and 6th symphonies (opus 67 and 68 respectively) were written back to back and demonstrate the process of intelligence increase in musical form, with the crisis starting at the knocking of fate at the opening of opus 67 and traversing through the ex-stasis experience and ending in harmony in the pastoral symphony. The fact that listening to Beethoven dramatically increases intelligence has been proven time and again (http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Thinking-Principles-Creative-Problem/dp/0761506489).
People are creatures of habit and their personalities are shaped by the things that they do. You will become your rituals(see: wilson's 23rd law). Of course, your personal experience will be different from everyone else, but chances are that if you are listening to this on a constant basis it's going to have a deep, life-long effect on your personality.
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Playing a musical instrument is even better for you. Just do a quick search:
http://www.google.com/search?q=music+makes+you+smart [google.com] [google.com]
I did. That search returns just as much information contradicting your point as supporting it. This one says: [msn.com]
Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:4, Informative)
You seem to be saying (2), but I'd argue (3) with an emphasis on (1).
I know from personal experience that one can listen to gangsta rap and be a doctor or lawyer. Hell, you don't even have to be black. That's only one data point, but there you go. My daughter watches Dora but that doesn't mean she's going to be an explorer.
Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't this the natural result of the socio-econic situation of said racial group in the US, the high cost of college in the US, and the fact that most employers in said industry want a college degree?
Nonsense. I'm in Canada and the High School I went to was full of lower class people living in bad apartments and rooming houses. The people who moved on and did something with their lives were the ones who showed motivation and determination; nothing to do with skin colour.
Man do I ever get tired of hearing these stories about how the poor blacks can't afford college because society is holding them down. I went to school with Blacks (African and West Indies alike), Whites, Asians, Indians (both from India and the Native Canadian variety), Sri Lankens, Pakistanis, Europeans and a whole host of every other "ini" and "ean" you can imagine. Some had their parents paying their way but most were there through part time work, savings, grants, scholarships, loans and student lines of credit. I don't care where you're from or what your background - if you want something you work for it. If you don't, sit around and complain about how unfair life is.
But hey, let's make sure to placate "visible minorities" by giving them specialized scholarships [google.ca]! Or, if you're not dark enough but you have the right set of genitalia you could always apply for a scholarship for women [google.ca]! When did scholarship money become about what a person looks like rather than their drive, ambition and abilities anyways??!
Hint: you're CANADIAN. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing the black people you grew up with, poor and otherwise, didn't grow up in an entirely-black-and-Latino ghetto, weren't marked by heavy urban accents, and probably didn't even have to grow up in an area with utterly failed justice and education systems.
If you honestly think that your initial economic situation doesn't have any impact on educational level and success in life, you're a moron.
Re:Hint: you're CANADIAN. (Score:4, Insightful)
So you believe placing further stigma on a person's race relative to their career is going to help, or hurt this cause?
I'm not going to get into a pissing match over who has the worst schools because that could go on all day. Justice systems? Ditto. As for urban accents? Yes, I've seen people cling to ghetto slang to the point where they steadfastly refuse to speak anything approaching proper English. I've seen these people fail miserably. I've also seen many people from "urban ghettos" emerge with a fair to excellent command of the English language succeed in life.
So how is it exactly that oppression is holding these people back? Are there really droves of white men going around forcing these people to call every one of their peers "bro" or "niggah" or "homie" and thereby preventing them from entering the workforce in a meaningful way?
The implied ad hominem aside; didn't you read the part where I said I completed high school in a lower class area? Socio-economic progress to these people was installing a CD player in their $200 car, if they could afford a $200 car in some cases.
Yes, I watched groups of people who preferred to smoke drugs, skip classes or become sports obsessed jocks and also groups of people who worked hard and avoided all that nonsense. Guess which group broke free from their poor socio-economic upbringing and guess which ones now serve hamburgers (or reside in jail)? Hint: Many of the aforementioned have served me various foods and beverages since commencement. I'm sure that means I'm oppressing them, right?
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So how is it exactly that oppression is holding these people back? Are there really droves of white men going around forcing these people to call every one of their peers "bro" or "niggah" or "homie" and thereby preventing them from entering the workforce in a meaningful way?
You are right, there is nothing holding anyone back in America but themselves. The problem is a lot of them have the perception that they can't succeed, because of who they are. Everyone around them has the same perception, and no one is there to help them break out of it.
For an example, go down to Union Square in San Francisco sometime. You will see a bunch of rich white people, a bunch of rich Asian people, and a bunch of poor black people. Imagine if you were a black kid growing up in that neighbor
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No, but it probably means you're a self-serving, materialistic asshole that has no problem stepping over people to make money.
Actually I've been slowed in my own career advancement because I take the time to impart my gained knowledge and wisdom on new employees rather than furthering myself, but that's really immaterial to your ad hominem approach so we'll move right along.
Nothing personal, just my observation. Those who succeed aren't smarter, nor do they work *harder*.
So success is nothing more than exploitation? Has nothing to do with knowledge or ability to work smart or hard? Interesting.
It's always convenient to blame poverty on behavior. The problem is I hear you saying - "If you just sell out your soul, your ethnicity, your language, your culture, and everything that makes you an individual person, you too can succeed!"
Did I say people had to sell out their soul or their ethnicity or language? Funny, but I don't recall making that claim. However t
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Sure, you are outraged by this, but yet you don't speak out on such things as alumni preference (at many schools it is officially part of the weighting that if your parents went to school there, you get a better chance). This has been directly shown to cause a sort of affirmative action for white people; but of course you wouldn't care about that; it isn't convenient for your argument.
I didn't speak out on such things as book costs, transit routes or the mascots chosen by the institutions because it wasn't relevant to what I was discussing either. So for your strawman I present a book of matches.
Now, to address what you've said; so? People in higher educational facilities prefer to have people in them who form some sort of heritage, or people who help fund the school and donate "wings" and libraries and the like. So?
Do you think it's unfair that retail businesses also offer prefere
Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:4, Insightful)
As a Canadian, I don't think you could even begin to know. I invite you to come down to South Carolina and see it for yourself. We do things like redistrict black people so that their votes don't even count.
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Re:Is this really surprising? (Score:4, Insightful)
Complaining is intended to achieve what, exactly? Is it going to make people realize the err of their ways and usher black people into the gaming industry and anywhere else they feel slighted? Or is it intended to them give extra incentives to blacks and other minorities so that when they do enter the work force they're resented by their co-workers? "Oh, (s)he's an affirmative action hire."
Strawman. Life is unfair for everybody starting the moment you're born. Get over it. You have two choices; sit and moan or get up and do something to make your life more fulfilling, for whatever definition of fulfilment you may have.
Oh boo hoo. There are still ignorant people out there. I'll ask again; does affirmative action help, or hurt the cause of minority acceptance in the work place?
Have you ever heard an otherwise racially neutral person utter a phrase like "Yeah, it's easy to get a job if you're a ${racial_slur}!"?!? Is it more fair to swing the pendulum in the opposite direction and discriminate against the Anglo Saxon Caucasian Males because we've had it so good up 'till now?
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In short, Studying and computer-programming are generally not cool. Basketball, and sports, on the other hand, are.
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Me, my dad was an engineer, and coincidentally(?) I did pretty much the same thing, went through college, and now make a middle-class living. It never really occurred to me to be a politician, or an entrepreneur, or a pro athlete. Even now I don't have a clue how one becomes those things. Could I become something different if I plunged in and figured it out? Probably (except pro athlete), but - and here's the point - I didn't. I traveled the road that was before me (which
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The only real way to "fix" this is to (a) make sure that discrimination is illegal, which we've already done, and (b) somehow eliminate the statistical correlation between race and poverty/education, which is a lot harder and will take at least a generation (and probably a lot longer, given how much we as a society suck at addressing the
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For some reason, there's this prevalent myth that you become a game developer by being a particularly hardcore gamer. ("We just finished level 3 and need to tighten the graphics a little bit.")
No one thinks that using spreadsheets qualifies you to write Excel, but people don't understand that you become qualified to code on Madden by taking lots of math, not by playing lots of Madden.
Here we go. (Score:4, Insightful)
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No matter what I want to believe about merit and talent, there is an underlying "how did you get in, here?!" sentiment floating around the development industry when it comes to blacks doing design and engineering work.
Yeah, unfortunately I've seen that, too, in a couple of technical fields now. Sometimes I think people showing that sentiment may not even be consciously aware of it, which makes it hard to do much about it (and it certainly wouldn't make me feel better if I were receiving the negative consequences of someone's unconscious bias).
It is a real shame that we as an industry can't just be above all of this a hire people based on there capability.
Based on what I see on Slashdot and The Daily WTF (I certainly choose high quality, un-skewed data sources, don't I?), it seems that some people making the hiring decisions can't
Re:Here we go. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is exactly what affirmative action has turned into; rather than give those a real opportunity to those who work hard for it, it became just another way to 'milk the system', so instead of having those most capable, you end up favoring those who are the loudest (regardless of color).
You may refer to this as the 'soft bigotry of lowered expectations'. You might think that it's yet another racist thing, but can it be really racist when those directly responsible for it are your from your own race?
As long as you have 'reverse discrimination' (which is what affirmative action effectively is), you cannot and should not complain that you're not evaluated on your own merits. Don't blame the industry; blame the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons.
here we go again (Score:5, Insightful)
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Have you listened to yourself lately? We need a -1:Hypocrisy modifier.
You could make the same point with less words....
A: Shut up!
B: How dare you tell me to shut up. You shut up!
A: No you shut up!
B: No you!!!
A and B: SHUT UP!!!!
How about we let EVERYONE have their say. Depending on the intent, the point of view that this is
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What the hell is wrong with a community that instantly rejects any suggestion of racism
NOTHING. Nothing is wrong with them, because a) we're all tired of hearing it, b) the situation is changing, gradually, but it is changing, c) the problem is often somewhere else, like equal quality of education, d) many of us "young adults" live in multi-cultural and multi-ethnic societies, and in the tech industry work with people of many races, and it is the older generation who insist on repeatedly highlighting what they see as racism, thus further fueling the segmentation of groups of people based on
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That's
stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
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Stop with this racial coddling (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally work with people of all races from all over the world, and though I can't say I have absolutely no prejudices whatsoever I certainly do not consciously discriminate against anyone because of their ethnicity. And I think a very large percentage of the current/next generation are the same - we're growing up in multi-cultural environments with mixed ethnicity and we're learning to value our differences rather than look on them negatively. It is the older generation who still wants to talk about the past, who still wants to talk about stereotyping and martyrdom. TFA does nothing to break from the conventional mold, and it's infuriating to me.
I could go on. If we want to end racial bias and under representation, I support the free market model: Provide people equal opportunities not by artificially advantaging one group above another or by continually highlighting racial under-representation, but through a good education across all people, and simply let things work themselves out over time. The problem will obviously not go away tomorrow, but does that really mean we have to keep highlighting it today, over and over, repeating the same old talking points?
Re:Stop with this racial coddling (Score:4, Interesting)
And like everything else, discussions about under-representation aren't always economic. Right now I'm directly affected by a form of ethnic under-representation: I'm in need of a bone marrow stem cell transplant [healemru.com], and as a black person I have a much lower chance [aachac.org] of finding a matching donor than a white person -- the odds of two people's human leukocyte antigens (HLAs) matching are much greater if they're of the same ethnic background, and blacks are severely under-represented in the Canadian, American and UK bone marrow donor registries.
So should I not bring that up because it's somehow racist? It's a fact, and people can't fix it if they don't know about it. This has a direct bearing on my life, and the lives of other black people (and Asian, and Indian, and...) waiting for transplants, so I want to see more headlines about this kind of under-representation, not fewer.
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I'm white, and was raised in a good middle-class home. My use of language, my body language, my preferred attire, my attitudes, my ethics, and my social expectations are all in line with what professional white employers are looking for, because I was raised in a similar environment to them. There's a generational difference, but it's one that any competent employer is expecting.
People underestimate how much implicit learn
Re:Stop with this racial coddling (Score:5, Insightful)
You position is basically like saying, disabled people in our town choose not to use the subway - the fact that there's no wheelchair access in the station has nothing to do with it.
If there's no disabled person to be seen in the subway, and no black in a cube farm, we need to ask ourselves some questions - and simply asking the questions is not fueling discrimination, but helping us understand the problem, if there is one.
Single elven female warrior (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's pretty obvious that the problem is not people pushing themselves to softly... 95% of all characters in any popular media are heavily clicheed. Even though every single game designer, author, movie director, musician and whatnot would really like to do better. But you don't get project funding for better, you get funding for dependable and predictable sales. As "they" say: It's a hit driven business (with "it" being just about everything).
Characters must always meet expectations so that no one changes the channel because they don't understand the plot anymore after fetching beer from the fridge. Consequently any clearly identifiable group is badly misrepresented in popular media.
Also, Slashdot readers, you just have to love this quote from the article:
Knock yourselves out...
Obviously (Score:4, Funny)
Not a suprising result (Score:2, Insightful)
The take on GTA (Score:5, Insightful)
So... he's saying that blatant stereotypes are okay, as long as they are not of black people? Am I missing something?
I've seen all three games. I'm Italian. My wife is Latina. And I'm not offended by any of it. But this interviewer seems to be saying that my lack of offense is because there is some fundamental difference in the race portrayals... I thought it was that I can choose to be offended or to be entertained by any of these blatant, joking, stereotypes.
I don't get it.
Well... (Score:2, Interesting)
Apart from that, I don't think anyone should be offended by being call
Rationalized view on things (Score:2, Insightful)
Author: Areala
Any time you bring race or gender bias into any particular medium, there's going to be problems. And while I can certainly see that there is a disparity, the first thing one has to look at is that numbers don't tell you everything.
Being female, when I was growing up, I heard all the time about how w
What about blonde-haired developers? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not enough white's in rap music (Score:5, Interesting)
what? (Score:3, Funny)
I wouldn't mind having more women around the office tho
so?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
The funny thing about the geeks of my generation, is that most of us don't really care about race. You're a noob if you don't know how to recompile your kernel, not because you happened to be born a specific hue.
Didn't everyone get the memo that the media doesn't really represent the people anymore? There isn't much to get over.
Re:Yes please (Score:5, Interesting)
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Probably first order statistic is that few people from poor backgrounds are working as game designers with the statistic that there are few black people working as game designers reflecting this rather than anything else. Now if you wish to use this as an example that there is economic disparity between white and black americans, then it might be valid to do so though there are vastly better statistics that could be used to show that than number of black game developers (doctors, university graduates, etc)
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On the flip side, immigrants of European descent are able to benefit from the system of prejudice that benefited the majority white population. Right ?
Re:Yes please (Score:5, Insightful)
You're joking, right? You think your grandparents' economic and educational opportunities have no effect on where you are now? Poverty is usually multigenerational.
Re:Yes please (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:who cares (Score:4, Funny)
What a crock of **** (Score:5, Insightful)
Who modded this crap insighful? Where did you get that , Cliched Quotes R Us? I know plenty of coders who are perfectly normal people , in fact I don't think I've ever met one who was the alleged stereotype aspergers and I only ever met one who I'd have called socially stunted.
"In comparison, most black people and women I've come across, tend to be more outgoing and sociable."
Women tend to be more outgoing than men. Black people ? It varies just as much as whites or asians. Are you just making this up as you go along? sounds to me like you've never mixed with anyone and are just going by the lyrics on your Craig David albums,
"because there are a lot more interesting things to do in this world if you don't mind interacting with regular people."
Yeah , like not posting trite made up crap you pulled out of your arse on slashdot.
Whoops... (Score:2)
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Quoting your own experiences is not stereotyping. Let's say EVERY black person I met was a good cook, and I said that. That doesn't mean I'm "stereotyping" black people.. merely relaying my experiences.
Sorry for the pedantic response, but that's my own minor bit of autism coming through
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=)
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Especially the indians!