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Carmack to Bring "Graphical Tour de Force" to the iPhone 105

Apparently developer John Carmack loves his iPhone and is still kicking himself for not having something ready to go at launch time. However, he has announced plans to bring a "graphical tour de force" to Apple's popular device. "But as for which one, the company isn't saying just yet, though given that the recently launched id Mobile division already has Doom RPG and the forthcoming Wolfenstein RPG to its credit, we wouldn't be at all surprised if Carmack will bring Quake or some flavor of Rage to the small screen as well. What's more, he's apparently considering the idea of tackling the MMO market on the iPhone down the line, though he admits that he's being 'conservative' and doesn't 'want to be in a bet-the-company situation' just yet."
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Carmack to Bring "Graphical Tour de Force" to the iPhone

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  • by bigbigbison ( 104532 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:26PM (#24389321) Homepage
    Here's the actual Forbes article [forbes.com] rather than a link to a website that links to the article.
  • by Joe The Dragon ( 967727 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:32PM (#24389417)

    I don't see FPS being that fun with out a buttons. A RTS / TBS may work good but not MMO / FPS / driving games.

    heroes of might and magic type games should work fine.

    • Who says an MMO has to be like those that've come before? Why not an RTS/TBS type MMO?

      As long as the developers can throw in meaningful persistence (most easily done with RPGs), I don't see any reason that an RTS or TBS wouldn't work as an MMO. Cavedog was doing something along those lines with their boneyard service for TA and the crusades for TA Kingdoms. Unfortunately, internet gameplay was still problematic and cavedog became an unfortunate casualty of bad management.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by EMeta ( 860558 )
      How many buttons do you need? Motion can easily be controlled by tilting & turning the iphone (tilt forward for forward, back for back, rotate clockwise & counterclockwise to do the same for the character, & tilt left or right for strafing). Then make 2 mostly transparent buttons on either side of the iphone screen. Put an extra transparent button in the middle of the top for a menu. I can't think of a racing game that would need more buttons than that; & I think most FPS would be set to
      • are the tilt sensors that precise in the iPhone? Is it as good as the wii? could we soon have the WiiPhone

        • by WiseWeasel ( 92224 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @05:22PM (#24392981)

          Yes, the tilt sensors are very precise, but you do get some random noise that you have to account for in your software. Current tilt-based games such as Labyrinth (marble table game) and Super Monkey Ball are very playable, and the motion detection is incredibly sensitive and quite realistic. An anonymous EA developer actually commented on the iPhone's accelerometer's characteristics as an input device in this story [gizmodo.com], where it is compared with the Wii remote minus the Motion Plus additions.

      • by Khuffie ( 818093 )
        Erm, the tilt sensor isn't that precise and controls will be ridiculous to get right. I really fail to see how people consider the iPhone to be a good gaming platform; it'll be good for casual games, but I don't see anything beyond that. Tilting the screen left and right makes it difficult to see the screen. 'Touch' buttons are difficult to find/hit in a game.
    • Actually I could see a driving game working if it takes advantage of the accelerometer... tilt left / right to steer, forward/back to accelerate / brake.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by antin ( 185674 )

      A FPS could work quite well on the iPhone, especially if they look at how the Wii Metroid did it. In Metroid you aimed with the pointer and the more you moved the pointer from the middle of the screen the faster it turned in that direction.

      You could do the exact same thing with the iPhone, always play with your finger touching the screen, and as you move your finger from the center look in that direction.

      If you constrained an iPhone FPS to only allow horizontal camera panning then moving your finger up and

    • by 4phun ( 822581 )

      I don't see FPS being that fun with out a buttons. A RTS / TBS may work good but not MMO / FPS / driving games.

      heroes of might and magic type games should work fine.

      They put touch sensitive virtual buttons at some spot on the screen. It works for me.

  • by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:33PM (#24389429) Homepage

    I gotta say I really like the idea of a game that combines the Star Wars universe with the world's most famous bike race. If they can pull it off, that is, and I have to wonder if the iPhone is really going to be the best target for this... wait...

    Doom RPG, Wolfenstein RPG? Okay, since I can't really imagine what that would look like ("you shoot the pinkie demon with the rocket launcher and hit for 100 damage"?), it does sound somewhat creative. Maybe, I guess. Not nearly as cool as "Tour de Force" though... :(

    • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @02:04PM (#24389939) Homepage Journal
      You're pretty close on what the Doom RPG was like. Carmack wrote about it some time ago, and the big point in his article was that although a lot of mobile phone hardware is actually pretty powerful, all of the carriers have ridiculous restrictions that prevent you from using it effectively. Most importantly, the maximum memory size was restricted down to a fraction of what was available on the phone and limited you to a very small palette of sprites/textures.
  • by AltGrendel ( 175092 ) <`su.0tixe' `ta' `todhsals-ga'> on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:33PM (#24389431) Homepage
    Can you imagine using the iPhone camera to capture the environment that you're in, like a street in NYC, and using that as a real time background for a FPS? It would put something like zombies in the image and real people in the image would be "hostages" that you need to protect or save.
  • Referring to Orcs and Elves.. '[it] never found an audience.' So it's not that a game or movie's mediocre, it's that it 'didn't find an audience'

    On a related note, where exactly would you play games on an iPhone? I know for a fact I wouldn't feel comfortable having an expensive gizmo like that out in the open for extended periods of time, where some tea leaf could grab it. And if you just end up using it inside, you might as well play games on a PC.

    • You mut live in a shitty neighborhood or something. Anyhow, does your PC have an accelerometer and a touch sensitive display?
    • by timster ( 32400 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:49PM (#24389693)

      Is it just me, or did you just divide the entire Earth into two categories:

      1. Places where you're likely to get robbed, and
      2. in front of your PC?

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by jollyreaper ( 513215 )

        On a related note, where exactly would you play games on an iPhone? I know for a fact I wouldn't feel comfortable having an expensive gizmo like that out in the open for extended periods of time, where some tea leaf could grab it. And if you just end up using it inside, you might as well play games on a PC.

        Is it just me, or did you just divide the entire Earth into two categories:

        1. Places where you're likely to get robbed, and
        2. in front of your PC?

        I'm still wondering about what kind of tea leaf jacks your iPhone.

    • by fistfullast33l ( 819270 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @03:23PM (#24391197) Homepage Journal

      I know for a fact I wouldn't feel comfortable having an expensive gizmo like that out in the open for extended periods of time, where some tea leaf could grab it.

      Haven't ridden a New York City subway lately? Like in, say, the last 5 years? Earbuds everywhere. And quite a few video iPods, iPod Touches, and iPhones with movies too.

      • by croddy ( 659025 ) *

        I know it's an insular place, and it's hard to keep a good handle on just how much of the world is outside it. But try to remember, please, that 99.9 % of people do not live in New York City.

        Really. 99.9 % of people. Check my math if you care to.

  • by writerjosh ( 862522 ) * on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:37PM (#24389497) Homepage

    How about a game where you stand in line for hours in front of the Apple store waiting to buy the new iPhone? You can watch your character sit for hours doing nothing in the hot sun looking at his other Apple gadgets. The more time that goes by, the more chance he has of losing his job because he played hooky from work to sit in line all day. When his "hooky" bar gets depleted, he loses his job.

    "Oops. You just got fired!"
    Play Again?

    • Everyone knows iPhone users don't have jobs.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by rwven ( 663186 )

        Hey, that's a dirty lie.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by bigbigbison ( 104532 )
        They must be trust fund kids then if they can afford the phone and the monthly bill...
        • by abigor ( 540274 )

          Yeah, $199 sure is a lot of money. Or maybe you should consider a getting a job that doesn't involve wearing a paper hat and asking people if they want fries.

          • by haystor ( 102186 )

            Yea...it's only $199.

            Even if that were true, it is still a lot of money to replace a phone that already works.

            Of course, I don't have a mobile phone. You have to be really important to pull that one off these days.

          • I was replying to the person that said that the people who stood in line all day to get an iphone could get one because they didn't have jobs not commenting on how expensive I thought the phone was. Personally the free phone I got with my contract is good enough for me.
      • They love their jobs, the prey to steve every day.

      • In Soviet Russia, everyone knows Jobs has the iPhone Users. Oh wait...

    • What happens if you find your boss in line?
  • In Objective C?? (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by joggle ( 594025 )

    Uggh, I'd hate to be the guy having to port all of that old C code to Objective C. That's cruel and unusual punishment if you ask me, regardless of how much money you get paid for it.

    • Re:In Objective C?? (Score:5, Informative)

      by argent ( 18001 ) <(peter) (at) (slashdot.2006.taronga.com)> on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:48PM (#24389677) Homepage Journal

      The only part that needs to be converted to Objective C is the part that creates and manages the game's viewport. THe existing game logic and models can remain in C or C++ (or Fortran=Fortran+1, or "ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL"), and the user interface would be rewritten from scratch for the iPhone regardless.

    • Re:In Objective C?? (Score:4, Informative)

      by mmkkbb ( 816035 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:52PM (#24389751) Homepage Journal

      If you were porting something that's been written in C to Objective-C, you wouldn't need to change much. Only the points where your code absolutely must call objective-C library calls, really.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Quake and Doom were developed on NeXTStep 3.3. On hardware with less computational power than an iPhone.
    • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @01:59PM (#24389845)

      Uggh, I'd hate to be the guy having to port all of that old C code to Objective C

      First of all, Objective-C is a pretty nice language with a lot of good features. It's hardly torture to use it.

      But I doubt you'd know much about it, given that you do not realize you can mix C and objective C freely. Only the UI has to be objective C. Even that doesn't really have to have much objective C, just the bits where you make use of the UI frameworks... in a game you'd be doing mostly OpenGL anyway.

      • by joggle ( 594025 )

        I've looked at some of the old Quake code and saw a fair amount of assembly in addition to ancient C code that I'm sure would need to be modified to work on an iphone.

        I seriously doubt you could just compile that old code without some fairly significant modifications to make it work correctly.

        If you think it would be easy, try looking at some of the code they've open-sourced and try giving it a shot.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Fross ( 83754 )

        I don't know about you, but as a one-time C programmer, 12 year Java programmer, I HATE Objective C. The syntax is all fucked up, it has a whole lot of really weird design decisions that seem to be made simply to provide a workaround to some problem, and I find the documentation for the SDK lacking. Yes, there is a lot of it, but I've tried to use it, and it's been a complete pain in the ass.

        For an example of a design "feature" of Objective C, you can extend/override a class. Any class. A class you don'

        • I found writing some simple iPhone apps absolutely trivial. Of course, I used these new fangled thing-a-ma-jigs called them there tutorials and such. Yeah - I know. Crazy talk.

        • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @05:29PM (#24393077)

          I don't know about you, but as a one-time C programmer, 12 year Java programmer, I HATE Objective C.

          I was a Java developer for about that long (or perhaps longer, I was doing some Java back around 1.0), and prior to that also had a lot of C and C++ and Lisp (mostly elisp) along with Scheme. The iPhone SDK is the first time I've done anything serious with Objective C, and I really like it.

          For an example of a design "feature" of Objective C, you can extend/override a class. Any class. A class you don't even have source code access to. A class you don't even have package access to - it happens dynamically. Scary, important classes such as the base class. And you don't even do it IN the class, just another random file somewhere. Before anyone says that's useful, that rather destroys the whole concept of encapsulation.

          This in NO WAY breaks the concept of encapsulation. It only enhances it. By being able to wrap ANY class in code of your own choosing, or adorn a class with new methods - you provide a powerful new range of composition abilities you don't easily have in Java (though you can do something similar with reflection trickery and interfaces).

          It's also what allows for private method definitions that cannot be seen through your header file.

          Yes it's dynamic. All of Objective-C is dynamic to the hilt, and that means there's a lot of stuff the compiler will not warn you about. But that can be OK, because the tradeoff is extreme flexibility and that is useful too. It means you can express some ideas in fewer lines of code and the less code there is the less room for error.

          I'm sure the rest is that I don't like XCode either, but reading through the docs and writing some simple iPhone apps has been painful mostly because of the language and the lack of documentation (it really lacks a "here are all the tools you'll need to use to make an iPhone app", eg I completely found the UI editor by chance)

          To me that says you are not reading the right documentation. I have found the documentation fairly extensive, and at least one of the introductory iPhone programming tutorials on the iPhone developer website builds a Hello World from scratch using Interface Builder. That aspect is well explained in at least a few documents, you have not read enough if you did not know about IB apart from accidentally launching it.

          I would read ALL introductory material on iPhone development on the iPhone dev center, including the UI guide. You need those as a grounding. Skimming some books on Cocoa to understand the Foundation classes (which the iPhone also uses) is a very good idea to know of the capabilities of things like NSString or NSDateFormatter.

          And if you use properties for a lot of stuff, even the syntax will not be so unfamiliar...

          Also I would look around for introductory material on XCode. Try watching some of these videos [cocoaheads.org], especially the XCode ones (in fact probably only those). If possible, try to find an iPhone Dev Camp [iphonedevcamp.org] near you and attend (it's this weekend, there are seven satellite locations). There are also a number of books on using XCode, one of those might be good to go through.

          Lastly I recommend totally understanding the retain/release model, and coming up with a set of procedures that you always follow. In my case for any class local variable, I always make a property for it and mark it as "retain". Then I always use that to set the value, even inside the class - that way I know dealloc can clean it up, and I'll never forget to call retain when I need to. There are times when you'll need to release an object as a result but it's better to leak a little memory than to have unstable references lingering in code - the performance tools can track down leaks pretty well. Just be consistent in your approach and you will not make many mistakes.

          • by Fross ( 83754 )

            To me that says you are not reading the right documentation. I have found the documentation fairly extensive, and at least one of the introductory iPhone programming tutorials on the iPhone developer website builds a Hello World from scratch using Interface Builder. That aspect is well explained in at least a few documents, you have not read enough if you did not know about IB apart from accidentally launching it.

            I started on the iPhone SDK pretty early on, and didn't find any such tutorials. There was sample code (I learned what I knew by dissecting that), there were a bunch of videos essentially glorifying the sdk but not providing any real demos - called the "iPhone Getting Started" videos, and nothing that actually demonstrated what all the tools were and how they worked to build soemthing from the ground up.

            Like I said, I only found the IB as I was trying to work out what the other files in the Hello World dir

            • Like I said, I only found the IB as I was trying to work out what the other files in the Hello World directory were, and how I could affect layout and such with them. Nothing before then showed me even the concept of using the IB for laying out UI elements (and as someone new to Cocoa, I didn't know what the environment was).

              The main document I was thinking of that mentions IB is "Creating iPhone Apps" [apple.com]

              There's less in that than I remembered on using Interface Builder - but basically any book or article that

        • Unfortunately, no one can publish any good iPhone development books or resources because of the NDA Apple has in place for the SDK, compounding the problem you bring up.

      • by p0tat03 ( 985078 )
        You forgot to mention that Objective-C is a strict superset of C, which means *any* C code will compile on it (assuming you don't have any odd dependencies). Build a UI layer in Obj-C (which you'd have to do anyways) and you're set. I'd hardly even call it "porting".
    • by jandrese ( 485 )
      Objective C is closer to C than C++ is. Porting the code over wouldn't be that bad.
      • by mini me ( 132455 )

        Objective-C is C with some extensions. C++ is a language of it's own.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by ArsonSmith ( 13997 )

          Objective-C is C with some extensions. C++ is C With a lot of extensions.

          • Re:In Objective C?? (Score:5, Informative)

            by Graff ( 532189 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2008 @04:49PM (#24392503)

            Objective-C is a strict superset of C [wikipedia.org], any C code will work just fine as part of an Objective-C project.

            C++ is not a strict superset of C [wikipedia.org], although a lot of the incompatable C++ syntax has been added back into C as of late. Even with that there are still a lot of gotchas when switching between C++ and C code.

            Honestly I've found Objective-C to be very powerful, intuitive, and easy to use. C++, although powerful, has a lot of tricky syntax and ideas behind it. It's a great language for experts and because it is a statically-typed language it is fairly quick, but I think Objective-C is a much better programming language overall. Oh and even though Objective-C is a dynamically-typed language you can still run it fairly quickly by "freezing" some of the method calls and making them static. This gives you the freedom of choice between the ease of a dynamic language and the speed of a static language.

            Apple has also worked it so that you can use C, C++, Objective-C, and several other languages fairly transparently in a single project.

    • Only the low-level parts of the code that interact with the APIs need to be Objective C. Just like you can mix C and C++ together in a single app, Objective C can be mixed as well.

      And BTW this is no different from Mac OS X development. A lot of cross-platform apps are C and/or C++ with thin wrappers for interacting with the Cocoa API.

    • I guess you didn't know that Doom was originally written on NeXTstep? Or that the original level editor was a NeXTstep .app?

      http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Development_of_Doom [wikia.com]

      And it's trivial to call pretty much any sort of code from Obj-C anyway.

      William

  • So is a "graphical tour de force" putting on a big turban and cracking stupid fortunetelling jokes about the iPhone on The Tonight Show With Johnny Carson? Well, at least it'll get Ed McMahon off the unemployment line for a while.
    • He was on "Celebrity Family Feud" last week, though he didn't give many (if any) answers. (That is, he was Xed when time ran out.) The prize money was for charity, but they may have gotten normal SAG money for appearing.

  • A Graphical Tour de France?

    Will Lance Armstrong be in it?

    How about Neil Armstrong?

    Maybe Stretch Armstrong?

    I think the Hulk Should be in it too!

    Does my mind wander? Sorry, I thought I was posting on YouTube!

    • by 4D6963 ( 933028 )
      Crap you beat me to it... Oh well, as I like to think, if an idea that occurs to me has already occurred to someone else, it probably wasn't such a great idea anyways!
  • Come on, ya know thats whats coming . . .
  • I was quite dissapointed that the article made no mention of that.

  • With soundtrack provided by Kraftwerk
  • Why keep wasting time on mobile telephones when Id Software could be pushing the Wii to its limits instead?

    • Why waste your time pushing the Wii to its limits when Wii Sports has already done it!

      *Zing*

  • So we can expect another tech demo from Carmack and not a game?
  • It will be good to see Quake finally running on a mobile device [slashdot.org]. Maybe someday they'll even have a go with Quake 2 [slashdot.org].

  • I think im the only one to point out that with a jailbroken iphone 3g or 1st gen with 2.0 firmware the installer cedega has a quake package to download, its pretty cool. the controls are a little difficult mainly cause it doesnt support more than one touch at the same time atm but its pretty fun and runs at full speed. has a similar one on my old ppc device, they even had quake 2 and 3 for pocketpc, 2 was too slow to play though and 3 was a slideslow but still, thats pretty cool. you could also play multipl

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