Stardock Evaluates DRM Complaints, Updates Gamer's Bill of Rights 279
Earlier this year, we discussed the Gamer's Bill of Rights, a document put forth by Stardock CEO Brad Wardell to address what he felt were the unacceptable characteristics of the gaming industry. ShackNews reports that Wardell has taken feedback from gamers, developers, and publishers, and updated the document accordingly. One particular area on which he focused was DRM. Stardock also published a customer report that examines the issue in greater detail (PDF). MTV's Multiplayer Blog fans the flames of the debate by asking if anyone is embarrassed about pirating video games.
So... (Score:2, Insightful)
When are they going to add another important point to the bill of rights:
11. Gamers shall have the right to play the game on the platform of their choosing.
Obviously, this whole bill of rights deal is for PC's and not consoles.
Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So... (Score:4, Funny)
>I'd like to see WoW on the commodore 64...
Done:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/moltencore/ [worldofwarcraft.com]
Enjoy it while it lasts!
I want my Halo 3-on-C64 port (Score:4, Informative)
Not a bad idea, but needs a rethink.
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Why not? They could use NAT, and free up some IPs for the rest of us to use. It would be a nice gesture of support for the Internet.
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Nintendo should be forced to license their IPs out to their arch-nemeses? (I mean, aside from Sega ;) Companies should be forced to release ports even for systems that can't handle the load?
I think he already addressed that when he said PC and not console.
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Yeah, you get to work on recoding every game out there to play on all platforms.
Moron.
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12. If a gamer owns a copy of a game for 1 platform they shall be able to download versions for all other platforms at no extra cost. (I.e. I buy a game for windows and they release a linux version, I should not have to buy the game twice).
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This I agree with! I didn't do my research well enough when I bought my mac. Imagine my surprise when I realized that most of my games that I planned to play would have to be bought again just to play them on my mac.
Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
Or have limited funds and resources, and want to put those funds and recources into games for your biggest market.
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I've got no funds, and I'm targetting Mac OS X and Windows initially, and maybe XBLA/WiiWare later. The first step is choosing a multiplatform framework (I'm using Playfirst's Playground SDK [playfirst.com]) or even a cross-platform library to develop your own framework (like SDL [libsdl.org], OpenGL [opengl.org] and OpenAL [creativelabs.com] as appropriate).
Limiting yourself to one platform limits your potential customers. If you start with multiplatform at the beginning of development, it doesn't take much more time/effort (look how Blizzard works, they ship Mac
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Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher. They have some desktop productivity products or something... but have become more famous for their consumer-friendly approach to PC gaming. Brad Wardell is taking advantage of the anti-DRM hype going on post-spore to build up a lot of respect for himself in the hardcore gamer community.
I suspect that this heiritage of developing for Windows only, as well as their relatively small scale as a publisher, leads them to a.) keep t
Re:So... (Score:5, Informative)
No, Stardock started as an OS/2 game publisher in 1993, they didn't touch Windows until 1998. See: http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/article_sdos2.html [stardock.com]
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It was a decent market until MS screwed WinOS2_32 by requesting memory at the then 2GB limit for Office 95, which effectively removed OS/2 from business consideration as each process was limited to just a paltry 512MB at the time and O95 was not backwards compatible with any previous version of Office. You had to jump through at least 4 hoops to save a document in a previous format, every time. And you had to install a "translator" for O95 that you had to download by going through no less than 6 links on MS
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We'll they're pretty small, and shuts up the "will you develop for x" requests/complaints.
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Majority of customers of a Windows-only publisher want them to do Windows software? Now that's a startling revelation.
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Even more shocking is the fact that by only developing for windows you are forcing people who wouldn't normally choose windows to have a copy just to play games, and as such re-enforcing the illusion that there are too few other users of other platforms to both porting the games.
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Still not a big market, though.
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They never asked me. And I have bought some of their games. I would of told them I would prefer mac games over windows games. In fact now that I have only a mac (and no licenses of windows) I don't prefer mac games, I require them.
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Just another thought. This gets even sillier when you see the success EA has has by developing for windows while keeping cider in mind. Their games tend to run fairly well on my mbp using cider. I'm not sure how much change has to be made to keep a game working on cider, but I'd suspect not much.
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Fine by me if they make that statement, but then I will make the following statement: they can get along without my business.
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Alright. But don't start complaining if I pirate the game.
If there is no official support for my platform, why should I pay a company that doesn't think I'm important enough.
Bzzzt, wrong! How exactly are you going to play this pirated game if you don't have a platform that supports it as you say?
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Yeah, I really do feel your pain, but I still don't agree with the way you're going about it. The thing is, if you're going to try and make your platform support the games, rather than get the games companies to support your platform, it's actually going to make it less likely for them to bother making a linux only version. It's like a two edged sword scenario - you need the support to be able to switch, but then unless you really do become a large part of their customer base then they're not going to bothe
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I really want to drive a Murcielago but I only like railways, I don't use roads. However, Lamborghini don't make Murcielagos for railways. Those bastards!
Oh well, they better not complain when I steal one and mod it to work on a railway track. They don't support my platform, why should I pay a company that doesn't think I'm important enough?
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Alright. But don't start complaining if I pirate the game. If there is no official support for my platform, why should I pay a company that doesn't think I'm important enough.
Why is this such a popular response? If [Game Company] doesn't do [whatever it is I want] then I'm going to pirate the game.
If you have issues with certain things these companies do be it lack of Linux support, or excessive DRM, you aren't granted some right to get it without paying for it. If you feel that strongly about it, please, don't pay for it. I refuse to buy music by the big labels for exactly this reason. But if you are going to boycott a product you don't get to have it anyway just because you
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Not that I'm condoning or condemning this response, but...
The rational behind that statement (in most cases on the Bell curve) is that the person making the statement has already purchased the game, and quite possibly several other games from the same company. When they say "whatever it is I want", they usually mean "install, work properly, and not mysteriously stop one day".
And by "pi
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And by "pirate", they mean "go to a third party to get a working version of the game I've rightfully purchased".
I'd like to have a non-industry source do a good in-depth study of this. But the poster to whom I was responding sounded far more like he was going to a third party to get a working version of the game that he had no intent on purchasing. I didn't mention it in this thread, but I don't have a problem with people who torrented say, Spore, after they bought the game. I think we'd all be better off if they simply boycotted it, but they paid for it and I'm fine with that.
I have a problem with the people who d
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That makes no sense whatsoever. If the game has flaws you find objectionable, why do you want it? If you want it, why aren't you willing to pay for it?
It constantly amazes me the justification people come up with for piracy. I generally buy my media and software (if there is a charge for it), but sometimes I pirate stuff too. I don't pr
Embarrassed? (Score:3, Informative)
Embarrassed? No. I know that I will gladly purchase a game that I feel deserves my money, but I have a great appreciation of piracy for allowing me to preview a product freely in advance. Developers are not losing any money on Piracy from me. I truly wish that were the case for everyone, and we probably wouldn't be in this predicament.
But who can honestly say those who pirate rampantly are going to buy the damn games anyway? Most of them I assume are kids who don't even have an income in the first place.
Regardless, though I'm certainly not embarrassed by that, I am increasingly afraid of losing my job, or suffering some other form of corporate backlash. I WORK in the damn game industry. Pretty much everyone I know downloads games, and buys the ones they like. But in the last few years it's gone from something that "everyone does", to something "everyone does unofficially".
Something that still confuses me are the kids nowadays that come in chanting copyright slogans and poo-pooing on people who bit torrent stuff. That grade-school brainwashing really does work wonders...
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:4, Insightful)
I still hassle my roommates for pirating games that I worked on. While I'd never see any of the revenue myself (it's not like we get royalties or anything), it still really bothers me.
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It doesn't bother me more if I worked on it, I just think it provides me with a more compelling, more personal argument for why they shouldn't download them. My friends who have modded PS2s with probably hundreds of dollars of stolen games on them - that bothers me, but I know nothing I say to them will change their minds. But if they have to stand in front of me and tell me why they didn't value my work on their enjoyment, I think that at least makes them think, which makes it worth bringing up.
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:5, Insightful)
When an game is sold $60, it is sold here in Europe for 60 Euro. You do the change back and tada: $100. :(
Now "Hundreds of dollard of games" start with only 1
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When an game is sold $60, it is sold here in Europe for 60 Euro.
Or in the UK for £60 = 70eur = $120 :(
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There's a significant lack of respect for my work inherent in the statement they make by stealing a game I've worked on. The way it comes across to me is, "I know you spent hours of your life working on the thing that's entertaining me right now, and I think those hours were worth a total of zero dollars."
There's also what I say below, that it's a more compelling argument against game piracy when you have to talk to someone whom your actions are directly affecting.
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a significant lack of respect for my work inherent in the statement they make by stealing a game I've worked on. The way it comes across to me is, "I know you spent hours of your life working on the thing that's entertaining me right now, and I think those hours were worth a total of zero dollars."
That is not their statement, that's your assumption.
Most hardcore pirates that I know are very much into promoting cool stuff and sharing it with others because they think it is really cool. They don't waste energy on crap. In part it gives them status in their community when they are able to turn people on to something impressive. This behavior seems to be normal human nature - sharing cool stuff regardless of what it is - is an inherent part of the human social animal.
You can choose to feel insulted by it, but feeling that way won't change anything and it makes you unhappy in the process.
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Most hardcore pirates that I know are very much into promoting cool stuff and sharing it with others because they think it is really cool. They don't waste energy on crap. In part it gives them status in their community when they are able to turn people on to something impressive.
That'd be great and all except EVERYTHING gets cracked, crap or not. My only rule of thumb with piracy these days is that if the publisher wants me to feel like a criminal then their wish is my command.
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:4, Interesting)
Without getting into the absolute nonsense of industry piracy figures (I mean I'd be counted in the figures for pirating Spore, except I bought it as well. I just wanted the crack to avoid the DRM.) Piracy currently offers a more attractive product. I've read LOADS of people having problems with Spore when used from the legit copy. Not ONE problem with the cracked version.
Sure, I can understand developers wanting to protect their titles, but it has to be transparent, and it seems with each passing phase of software protection, more and more people are being screwed out of playing the game they've bought due to the DRM. And of course the pathetic irony is you can't return the game, "because you may have pirated it".
I started using cracks regularly when Neverwinter Nights wouldn't load for after a certain patch. (1.27 I think. Maybe 1.29.) That was where I basically said "Enough" and have cracked every piece of software I've bought since. (Except in the case of Stardock and the like who don't use DRM.)
It really is at the point though where I'm about done with the PC gaming industry. And I have no interest in the consoles, so mainstream PC gaming is pretty much "game over" for me now. Endless lack of imagination, endless expansion packs, endless DRM... It's just not worth it anymore.
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And when you paid miney for SPORE, you monetarily encouraged and told EA that DRM is perfectly acceptable. That is wrong.
The only thing that any of these big companies understand is LOSS OF MONEY. That's it. When it hits their bottom line is the minute they care. Corporate charter demands only that. Badmouthing them and then buying it just encourages them.
The proper answer to what EA has one: Pirate it, and give it to every friend who indicates that they would like to play it. Hit them in the pocket book.
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No, what bothers me is that I intimately understand the direct connection between piracy of a PC title en masse and the ensuing lack of employment of people who worked on said title if it underperforms "as a result". I'm not saying I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale - actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees - but piracy does hurt real people who make games, and therefore also dampens the quality of PC
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I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees
and
It's a real problem out there.
What is the problem? You said it yourself that it's not a problem and then turned around and said it was.
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Not every person who pirates a given game would buy it if they could not get it for free.
A fair number of casual pirates would, in fact, buy a game they wanted to play if they could not steal it.
Piracy adversely affects the PC Game industry by providing a disincentive to publishers to publish on the PC platform, and indirectly affects the lives of game company employees whose companies receive lower revenues due to pirated copies.
My personal guess is that 30-40% of pirated copies are lost sales, and the rest either eventually buy if they like the game or wouldn't have the means/convenience to purchase it if they could not steal it. But I'd need good, real methodical data on that (which frankly doesn't exist) to speak more authoritatively.
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Piracy adversely affects the PC Game industry by providing a disincentive to publishers to publish on the PC platform, and indirectly affects the lives of game company employees whose companies receive lower revenues due to pirated copies
As you said yourself: no substantial data exists. If you believe that you're getting paid less because of piracy then it may just be because your employer wants you to believe that. An employer who doesn't pay you what your worth? That's unheard of. And, no disrepect, but to even guess that "30-40% of pirated copies are lost sales" is just that... a guess. My personal guess would be about 1%. So, who's right?
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I meant more that I have friends in the industry whose teams have had cuts after revenue for their PC game wasn't high enough, and that there was high piracy on that particular game. It was a couple years back. I'm not underpaid, and I wouldn't stand for being swindled into getting underpaid either. ;)
And you're totally right, it is just a guess - and maybe being inside the industry instead of outside skews my perception. I'd love if an academic institution could run studies on it that were unbiased so w
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Hell, I think that if they could not be pirated, then sales would be less then they are now.
I believe this for 2 simple reasons:
1) The pirates who would pay would also be attracted to any competing free games instead and those would become even better than they are now (see the argument that should MS ever really turn the screws on their product activation, that would just boost linux usage).
2) The pirates who do pay - as in they treat a bootleg like an extended demo - won't even bother to risk their money
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Personally the games I aquire via means other than retail are extended demos, if I like I buy. However there are some games I have that I wouldn't say are good, they are amusing. I would never in a million years buy them, but as I aquired them for nothing I will play them.
It is not lost revenue as the companies would have it, as I never intended to purchase the game, nor would I ever purchase it, so how is that lost revenue?
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Most game companies make a repeat of Quake or Unreal. Boring. Yet another FPS with 10 new weapons, or addon of vehicles, or different "classes" dont make the main idea of first person shooter any better. I have plenty of fun with Q3Arena and Unreal Tournament... and they run on every machine including Intel GFX cards.
The interesting games like Spore are intentionally dumbed down and will be released later as "add-on packs". Yep. They're probably already done, but they wait so they can charge yet another 30-
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You are delusional if you really think only 1% of people who spend days downloading ripped copies of crysis, who own a machine that will play that game, would buy it if they couldn't pirate it.
Pirates always kid themselves they wouldn't have bought the game, because if they don't tell themselves that they realise they are just stealing.
(Insert lame and totally retarded comment about !I just copied it!111 here)
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have good news. I found someone who stole one of your games, and he has agreed to mail you back the bits you're missing. I just need a return address.
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3-40% of pirated copies is a silly number, where would that kind of money come from? All the pirates I know already spends alot of money on games/movies/music, they can't materialize money out of thin air to pay for the content they're currently pirating.
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That's rather irrelevant, if they want to pirate they will pirate because nothing can stop them. The point is that 40% of pirated games can't be lost sales because that kind of money doesn't exist.
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No, what bothers me is that I intimately understand the direct connection between piracy of a PC title en masse and the ensuing lack of employment of people who worked on said title if it underperforms "as a result". I'm not saying I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale - actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees - but piracy does hurt real people who make games, and therefore also dampens the quality of PC titles and the enthusiasm for the platform across the board.
It's a real problem out there.
The counter-argument to that is that DRM hurts your customers in very real ways as well, while it has little to no impact on pirates. Hell, I can't even play my copy of UT2004 now because I lost my CD key last time I moved. What else do I own that I could permanently lose just because I can't find a little card with like 16 characters on it?
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Hell, I can't even play my copy of UT2004 now because I lost my CD key last time I moved. What else do I own that I could permanently lose just because I can't find a little card with like 16 characters on it?
Boo-fucking-hoo.
Exactly what prevented you from making a backup of those "16 characters"? Definitely not Epic, but you act like it's their fault. And since it's their servers you connect to they have every right to have you authenticate with the CD key they supplied with the manual - is that too much to ask?
Sorry, but it's not as if CD keys themselves were copy protected in any way, shape or form - it takes like ten or fifteen seconds to make a backup by typing them into a text file that you back up with th
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Exactly what prevented you from making a backup of those "16 characters"? Definitely not Epic, but you act like it's their fault. And since it's their servers you connect to they have every right to have you authenticate with the CD key they supplied with the manual - is that too much to ask?
I could lose the deed to my fucking house and get another copy of it. Yet I can't get another cd key to play a 50 dollar game? Something is fucked up.
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I doubt you bought your house in some random shop in a small box, or got it shipped by post.
Buying a house is a bit more sophisticated than buying a game... and the authorities (which will print you your new deed) know about it, which I doubt as far as your game is concerned.
Then again, getting a new copy of that deed isn't going to be free either - it'll probably cost more than the 9.99 USD you pay for a brand spanking new copy of UT2004 [amazon.com]...
np: Venetian Snares - Masodik Galamb (Rossz Csillag Allat Szuletett
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This is the best statement I have read all day. I fully agree.
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No, but if he installs a lock that I cannot replace myself or by hiring another locksmith, and then demands the same money to replace the missing key as it would cost to install an entirely new lock set, I would damn well complain.
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Thought exercise:
If the internet did not exist and you could not pirate any given game, would you
A.) Not buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?
or
B.) Buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?
If you're like most people, I'm guessing the answer is that sometimes you would do A, sometimes B. I know this is how I buy my games - If it's made by BioWare, Obsidian, or Blizzard it's pretty much a must-have, and if it's made by someone else but looks like it might
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to nitpick, but I was pirating WAY before I had internet access (actually, more then than now). As to your question: C) No demo=no purchase.
I won't pay for something unless I know I want it. If I buy meat from a butcher and it's not good, I'll get my money back. That option is not available to me as a consumer with software, so I try before I buy.
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Re:Embarrassed? (Score:4, Interesting)
My rule:
If it piques my interest (and most games dont), I'll go get a pirate friendly copy.
If reviews indicate that you infest DRM or other anti-user techniques in the software, I will NOT buy. I will instead spread the pirate copies that are fixed versions.
If I can ruin your business by reducing the money you will make, you MIGHT get the idea. If you dont, too bad. Not my problem.
If you respect the user in the regular copies, I'll make sure that others know about it and encourage them to buy. I'll most likely buy when I get the chance... if it's in reasonable grasp (box stores, your website with a CC) and a good game. Some times, what I think might be a god game, just isn't. They get deleted.
The key here: crackers and piraters here will not stop at anything to "do a challenge". You cannot defeat them. Instead, you can rally support by treating your paying customers honorably and respectfully. Many companies think that since they pay, they deserve crap treatment. Instead, the pirate copy users have less crashes due to drm and overall better user experience.
I've been burnt by crippleware that I couldnt return, nor could I play. I see no reason other than to download and try ON MY TERMS, as your industry has forced that upon us. And once I have the better quality pirate copy, why even buy?
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Thought exercise:
If the internet did not exist and you could not pirate any given game, would you
A.) Not buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?
or
B.) Buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?
If you're like most people, I'm guessing the answer is that sometimes you would do A, sometimes B.
If you're like me, you've been burned too many times in the past to ever trust most developers again. With only a couple of exceptions who I give the benefit of the doubt to, I have to try a game before I will decide whether to buy it or not. Even if I get home and it won't run at all, I can't return it.
Developers think that all they have to do is entice you with enough bullshit hype about how awesome their game is to get you to buy it, and then when you realize that they were bullshitting all along, they already have your money and you can't return it.
Even a demo can be made to seem awesome, and make you think that if you could just keep playing a bit further you'd get to experience the awesomeness that they've been telling you about for the last couple years. But you'll probably be wrong. Maybe I'm jaded now, but it's asshole developers (and really publishers more often than developers) that have made me that way.
Re:Embarrassed? (Score:5, Interesting)
Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to admit I'd bought a copy of Spore considering the limitations of the DRM and the fact that it's installed malware like SecureRom. The people who have torrented DRM-free copies are already laughing at the people who have already hit their 5-install limit.
Just like I'd be embarrassed if I had bought music from Microsoft or Yahoo a few years ago, then found out that they're shutting down the license servers so that I have no way of listening to copies of songs I've purchased. People who listen to copies of those same songs downloaded from Kazaa are laughing at them.
Pay attention to the lesson here folks. If you buy something that comes with copy protection, you are being scammed just as surely as if you were to send your life savings to the nice man from Nigeria that sends you so many emails. If there is no legitimate method of buying it that doesn't include DRM, then don't buy it at all.
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My PlayStation (original) games have DRM, have worked for over a decade and I have no reason to expect they won't continue to work for as long as my hardware holds out. Not all DRM is bad. For dedicated gaming platforms (where you're never going to have the need to use the media on a different device) DRM is a good thing as a locked-down platform makes cheating drastically harder. I wouldn't even want to play a game on-line without a platform with strong DRM. I gave up on PC gaming because of the cheaters.
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So if you don't have income you can decide to not follow the rules? Does that mean kids should be allowed to sneak into theaters or into concerts? The problem really isn't that people who normally wouldn't buy the product, it's that if they allow those people to pirate, many of those who would buy will also pirate.
pride shame (Score:5, Insightful)
But what's keeping all those gamers out there who don't pirate their games from standing up and saying they pay for what they play? From making not being a pirate a point of pride?
I paid for Spore. The DRM crashed my game. The seemingly incomplete game was enjoyable for as much as it accomplished. But I feel like a sucker for having paid money on it. I don't feel pride; I feel a small twinge of something akin to shame. I helped Electronic Arts dumb down a game (so they can piecemeal add-ons to eventually yield a complete game, sometime in the future) and distribute it with DRM (which interfered in my gameplay, which the pirated version would not have done). I helped them because I can't control my addiction to gaming.
That's why the cultural front would be a losing battle. To do the "legal" thing, I have to feel slightly embarrassed and used and out of control.
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The game crashed, what makes you assume it was the DRM?
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The game crashed, what makes you assume it was the DRM?
The game was stable up until the space stage, then it started crashing on me and caused me to lose many hours of progress. Buried in the crash logs was mention of a particular dll. I went searching for an explanation of what that file was for. Turns out, there was already an article written that explained that dll, SecureROM, and its relation to Spore. http://www.arsgeek.com/2008/09/09/how-to-remove-securom-spore-dasmx86dll-issues-and-some-great-drm-free-alternatives/ [arsgeek.com]
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I feel the same ; I bought Mass Effect (only when it came down to half it's published price, but still, I didn't like myself).
It's a great game, but I felt ashamed to be supporting EA. I also felt uncomfortable with the activation scheme - it's definitely dampening my ardour for a new GPU, because that will require me to burn an activation.
Games are the only things keeping a "real" Windows install on my disk now. I need Windows for work, but I'm prepared to run it in a virtual machine if necessary. The soft
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a) Be strong! Not only will I not purchase these products, I will not use them in any way. A total boycott.
b) Be pragmatic! The publisher will label me a lost sale due to pi
Their stuff sounds worse than DRM (Score:3, Interesting)
Their games require you to run "Impulse", and the "Impulse Dock", which is a browser-like client that only talks to Stardock. It has blogs, downloads, and such, and is required for updates to their games. It's like one of those background services required to run many games, only it's in your face.
This is progress?
Why marked as troll? (Score:4, Insightful)
The parent is correct. Their games do require you to run their Impulse client to download game updates.
A recent update to Impulse did actually install background services without asking the user's permission. This was their solution to slow app launch times, by invisibly launching the service at boot time, rather than actually fixing the problem.
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And to make matters worse, for me it started *slower* with the background service running.
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I gotta agree, I don't mind the concept involved so much as that simply find Impulse to be a particularly bad piece of shit. I find the UI unintuitive, I find the UI ugly, it's slow, it has visual bugs, it has bugs period, it has a lovely random jumble of settings, it doesn't tell me what it's doing (ie: reading all 6gb of game data while saying it's "downloading" an update), etc.
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Hello, first sale doctrine? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I purchase a copy of the game, I *DO* own it. Otherwise, I have the right to get a replacement and or refund if my CD or DVD gets scratched. Does that really happen? I don't think so.
If we gave money and got a CD, it's not a license. It's a sale. Especially when you go to the website and see the words "purchase", "order" and "buy". See Vernor v. Autodesk [citizen.org]. A good review of the decision is available at http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080523-court-smacks-autodesk-affirms-right-to-sell-used-software.html [arstechnica.com]
So what DRM is really about, is an attempt at circumventing the first sale doctrine. Therefore, it should be declared illegal.
Re:Hello, first sale doctrine? - it gets worse. (Score:4, Insightful)
Go read up on copyright, as part of the 'deal' that is copyright, the rights to the item are supposed to become public after copyright runs out (which is getting longer and longer, but that aint the point).
With DRM, how exactly is the public going to get their free access that has been bought and paid for by supplying (through the state..) the protection of the product during its copyright life?
Any copyright holder who uses DRM that does not time out at the end of copyright is reneging on their half of the contract that is copyright, so why should they get any protection through it?
State Copyright OR Private DRM, I say. No state protection for DRM!
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That's a rather good argument I think. Anyone that uses DRM should lose their copyright automatically since they've accepted the burden of defending it themselves.
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I noticed that "Gamers should have the right to resell the game" was put in the list of "Illegitimate complaints" with the justification "Not saying reselling programs is right or wrong, only that it is not the function of DRM to make it hard or easy to do this, it's a separate issue."
Regardless of whether the function of DRM is to make this easy or hard, with most current DRM systems, reselling the game is made hard as a side-effect of the DRM. Whether or not that's intentional is something we could argue
not anymore (again) (Score:2)
When I was in school, I didn't feel bad about it because I didn't have the money anyways. 50 bucks for a computer game? I would've had to save 2-3 months to afford that, and very, very few games lasted that long before I was done with them, so it wouldn't have been a sustainable model.
Later on, when I could afford games, I bought most of the ones I played. And that was ok. I was occasionally unhappy because it sucked, which is a lot worse if you paid for it, but it was mostly ok.
But ever since the game indu
How about a DRM Bill of Rights (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Right of Free Use: If you limit number of installations, the publisher MUST provide a "revoke" tool.
What it entails for the publisher:
The Publisher is allowed to limit the software's installation to one or more computers based on their hardware configuration and registered online ("Activation"). They must provide a free stand-alone tool, preferably on the same distribution medium, that the User can use to de-authorize previously activated computers. The total number of Activations and De-activations must be unlimited in number, but can be limited as to number of uses in a particular time period.
How It Would Work:
When you install a game, the software must be activated online as is the standard practice today. However, what this Right provides is a method for the User to de-activate an installation so the software can be transferred to another computer, either due to hardware failure, upgrade or resale. This tool needs to be provided free to the user, preferably on the CD/DVD with the game (or downloaded if the game is purchased through digital distribution) and must be stand-alone. De-activation would require proof of ownership (the CD in the drive and the CD-key should be enough), and would display a list of all computers authorized to run that software. The User could then select the computers to be de-activated. Note that this tool does NOT have to be run on the Authorized computer, or require the Authorized software to be installed. In order to prevent misuse of this tool, the Publisher can allow only a certain amount of Authorizations/DeAuthorizations per day/week/month, but cannot limit the TOTAL amount of de-Authorizations.
2) Right of Activation: If the publisher requires Activation, they must provide some assurance of method to bypass this should the method of Activation no longer be available.
What it entails for the Publisher:
The Publisher is allowed to require the User to Activate their software through the method of their choice. But if that method should no longer be available (be it due to technical or financial reasons), they must ensure that the user can continue to use the software they paid for even though the Activation service is no longer running. This assurance can take many forms; a legal promise to release a patch should the Activation Servers be taken down and a waiving of rights to take legal action of any third-party who rights software to allow the same, or a universal "key" that is held in escrow, to be released only should the Activation servers go down, that allows installation and use of the Software without Activation.
How It Would Work:
Basically, the Publisher needs to provide the User with a "back-door" that can bypass the Activation requirement should they chose to no longer allow Activations, either because it is costing them too much money or they are no longer in business. The best way for the User is if the Publisher has a patch or some sort of universal serial number that allows the User to bypass Activation; this patch/key is held in escrow until the Activation Servers go down and is then released to the general public. Of course, this may dramatically compromise the usefulness of the DRM, so other methods can be used, for example: providing source-code and funds that can be released to pay a programming team to successfully develop a patch after the fact. Alternately (but least palatable to the User) the Publisher can simply promise to release code and not prosecute should a third-party (e.g., a "cracker") want to develop some method to bypass the Activation (but, note, they must provide enough code to make this a possibility)
3) Right to P
Re:How about a DRM Bill of Rights (Score:5, Insightful)
I already have a DRM Bill of Rights.
It's called Thepiratebay. No DRM. Working cracks and good serials. No anti-user crap.
Why pay to get punished when pirating works better?
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Piracy, unlike throwing garbage doesn't really harm anyone!
Unless you work for a game company whose revenues are down, copies pirated on the main torrent sites are way up, and is a publicly traded company so may legally be required to lay off employees to shore up their balance sheet...
No, people don't pirate to save themselves 60 $us that they could pay, they pirate because they simply wouldn't be able to pay for it, or maybe because the game has been so horribly ruined by DRM that you need to pirate it in order to actually play it.
Categorically untrue. I'm sure many people do pirate a game because they wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, and I know I've used no-cd patches to make my media last longer, but I'm JUST as sure that people do pirate games just to avoid spending money on them, even if their bud
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Mmmm... you've mad that assertion a few times in this discussion. Just out of interest, do you have any specific examples of good, well publicised games that sold poorly, but for which the torrenting counts were high?
T
Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (Score:5, Insightful)
I love it when Americans make the tipping analogy, because it's so apt. You are aware that the American system of tipping is insane, right? The rest of the world think you're all fuckin' nuts when you go on about this stuff. There's nothing normal about refusing to pay your staff a reasonable rate and then demanding the customer get involved in compensating them.
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I like the tipping system here.
I've been at restaurants where waitresses invade my personal space by touching me or rubbing on me while handing other diners their food, and I just refuse to tip them because of that. Usually they do it because they think it gets them more tips if they make me want to have sex with them. That kind of manipulation really pisses me off. Remember that this is an example of why I like the tipping system.
Another reason why I like the system here is that if I really like the servic
Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (Score:4, Insightful)
The tipping system in the US is insane. Waitresses should be paid normal wages, and should get tips only as reward for good service (or physical contact, for those so inclined).
I stray into off-topic land (Score:3, Informative)
There's nothing normal about refusing to pay your staff a reasonable rate and then demanding the customer get involved in compensating them.
I can only quote you in the name of truth. The moment the UK government found out that was happening here they started taking steps to make it illegal [guardian.co.uk], as it damn well should be.
Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (Score:4, Interesting)
No, being a decent waiter is the waiter's job, and they don't deserve any extra for doing what they're supposed to do. If they don't earn enough then they should go and demand more from their employer.
A tip is not a tip if it's mandatory. A tip is used to reward exceptional service. Simply serving food or mechanically pouring a beer or cup of coffee is not exceptional service. Now, when a taxi driver spent a while figuring out how to fit the large CRT I had bought into the car and helped me carry it up, that was very exceptional service and appropiately rewarded.
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In my county (in Indiana) you have to pay for recycling even if you do not recycle. So in this analogy. I have to buy EA games even if I don't play them.
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We'll have to see how their GPG release goes, though. Stardock has real integrity to date, such that I see genuine word-of-mouth support for them on all manner of forums, pushing Sins and Gal Civ and The Witcher: Enhanced Edition (through impulse) instead of DRM laden titles.
I think they know they have real money value in these values if they stick to them, and they'd be foolish to throw away that money value, especially since they limit themselves to the PC market only (where piracy is much more rampant).
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Stardock has real integrity to date ... pushing Sins and Gal Civ and The Witcher: Enhanced Edition (through impulse) instead of DRM laden titles.
Except for the fact that Impulse/Stardock Central is DRM...
I will explain it again, and post a link to the image if you don't trust me. I cannot freely move my Gal Civ2 Files from one PC to another without having to re-install or activate. It will come up with a message about the SID not matching the hardware when I delete the sig.bin and/or move the files to my Wine box:
Wine: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5128/screenshotgalacticcivilex5.png [imageshack.us]
Windows Activation Screen: http://img257.imageshack.us/img2 [imageshack.us]
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Re:Face it (Score:5, Insightful)
It's be fucking nice if they did release source code. What's the harm? Carmack did it.
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It's slightly ironic that that very ad in the beginning of DVD's is why a lot of people pirate. The pirates get their movies commercial free.