The State of Video Game Regulation 154
Gamasutra is running an in-depth look at the regulation of video games in the US and other countries. They discuss the reasons for such legislation, such as child protection and intellectual property restrictions, as well as what gamers can expect to see in the coming years.
"Fairfield also points out combinations of laws, which, when put together make for strange outcomes. The biggest of these, for video games, is the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. In short, gaining unauthorized access to someone's computer and doing $500 in damages opens you up for criminal charges. It's good for prosecuting hackers, but it makes for a strange fit with social networking websites and user-generated content. That fit was especially strange when prosecutors weren't quite sure how to approach the widely publicized case of Megan Meier. The 13-year-old Meier committed suicide after being deceived and bullied by another girl and her mother, Lori Drew. Unable to find a good way to approach the issue, prosecutors charged Drew under MySpace's End User License Agreement, effectively giving MySpace the power to dictate criminal law."
Obtaining digital items through extortion (Score:3, Informative)
There was a case in the Netherlands where kids obtained some items in Runescape through extortion of another kid. This is also punishable just like "normal" theft according to the judge (if you can call theft normal).
Link to article in Dutch: http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/7/Misdaad/article/detail/38458/2008/10/21/Rechter-straft-jongens-voor-afpersen-in-computerspel.dhtml [parool.nl]
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I should probably add that the kids didn't do this in the game, but outside the game with actual contact between the kids (they were in the same school)... although the items were only digital.
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I really am troubled by the prosecution stretching one law so badly to make up for the fact that there was NO real law on the books against what she did.
In the past, the person was let go. Yes, that sucks, but, if there is no law, there is no crime. Usually a law gets passed to prevent/punish it next time.
Stretching an
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I don't understand how one can say, "No laws apply". There are laws against stalking, and laws against libel/slander of other individuals. The mom might only spend a year in jail for these minor crimes, but that's still better than nothing.
Also there's vigilante justice.
If my daughter was killed by a bunch of bullies that's bad enough, but another parent? Who should know better than to gang-up on an underage teen??? I'm afraid I'd suffer a case of "temporary insanity" against said parent.
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But see...Lori Drew was NOT charged or convicted of these things. They had to go out of their way to stretch other, non-related laws to try to get her on 'something'. It is the stretching that is the problem....now that unrelated law has more power and is interpreted
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Remember, it's only inevitable (Score:5, Insightful)
when you accept it as such.
I don't see why they should regulate video games any more than they regulate the content of books.
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I don't see why they should regulate video games any more than they regulate the content of books.
Do you think they should regulate movies any more than they regulate the content of books?
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No, I don't.
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Do you think they should regulate movies any more than they regulate the content of books?
No, I don't.
Would you be interested in a copy of Mein Kampf: The Game?
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Re:Remember, it's only inevitable (Score:5, Funny)
photoshop for dummies: the video game.
They did that a long time ago. It was called Mario Paint.
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Mein Kampf: The Game?
ID software is waaaay ahead of you. By about 17 years. Hitler lost, remember? ;)
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I thought so. We disagree on that.
The way I see it, innocence protects somewhat from all but the most detailed descriptions in a book. A movie most of the times describes in almost perfect detail anything it depicts.
As I see it, games should have exactly the same laws (for those kind of things) as movies.
For reference, my opinion about books (pure text) is that they should have no control at all and that any problem with their free distribution, even a minimal one, should be treated as a serious attack on f
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Who are you trying to protect?
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So none at all, then.
Re:Remember, it's only inevitable (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a slight difference that puts games more in line with films - graphics and the removal of the need for an imagination.
Give someone a book containing a sexual or violent scene and they require some imagination to make an image of it. For some people the same words can provoke lesser or greater images. For games and films you get it laid out in front of you with full colour and everything, so there's less ambiguity to the detail.
Books tend to self-regulate based on vocabulary as well - put complex words in your books and you're not likely to get many kids reading them, but put it in a film and it's accessible to loads of people who wouldn't have read a text version. Lord of the Rings is a great example - how many pre-teen kids would manage to read LotR and how many like the film? There's nothing terrible in LotR for sexual/violent content (there's violence, but nothing excessively described) but it still aims itself at an audience based on the vocabulary it uses.
Granted you still get books that are sexual or violent to greater and lesser degrees, but they've never been regulated and since most books are probably PG on content but for older readers based on vocabulary then there'd be a backlash from those used to books not being regulated/age rated.
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> There's nothing terrible in LotR for sexual/violent content (there's violence, but nothing excessively described) but it still aims itself at an audience based on the vocabulary it uses.
No terrible violent content? People get stabbed to death with swords, shot with arrows, set on fire, drowned, etc. I don't have a problem with these things, but let's not pretend that LotR is not very violent.
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I don't see how you can equate a simple statement like "Ozgnikt stabbed Frumbumnìr" with a moving image showing blood spurting everywhere and shit and giblets all falling out.
Now if it was Sven Hassel and not Tolkien it would be closer. But still different.
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Poor FrumbumnÃr, I knew him well.
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> I don't see how you can equate a simple statement like "Ozgnikt stabbed FrumbumnÃr" with a moving image showing blood spurting everywhere and shit and giblets all falling out.
I didn't. I just said that the books contained a lot of violence. I never in any way suggested that the violence in LotR was the same as people stabbing eachother in a moving picture 'showing blood spurting everywhere and shit and giblets all falling out', although now I feel the need to point out that IMHO books can do a bet
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That's because you're taking the most minimal text description you can think of and comparing it to the goriest visual film image you can think of, instead of recognizing the fact that both media are capable of the same range of detail.
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I did. But it was Tolkein we were talking about. It's a long time since I've read any (for shame!) but the most detail I can remeber is when some stunt cops it from a greeny - something along the lines of "his mail collar withstood the blow, but the force broke his neck".
Hardly James Herbert, is it?
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I didn't say there was no violent content, I said that nothing was terribly violent in that there's violence but nothing is excessively described. As other people pointed out, there's a difference between "X stabbed Y" and an animation of it complete with images of how to do it and the blood, guts, etc involved. That's probably the main difference between film/games and books.
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That was in reply to someone who said:
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say any more. Are you?
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I've got more of an idea of what I said than you, given that the first quote (which you attribute to me) wasn't me and the second quote (which you attribute to someone else) was me ;)
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Maybe that's a better way of describing what I meant about "books need some imagination" :)
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Considering the project was begun by a professor of literature and mythology for the entertainment of his children, your example is not very good.
Good
+1 Brilliant!!! (Score:2)
Bringing accountability to Government means actually saying what you think [slashdot.org], not just accepting that you have no voice...
Incidentally - the Internet & Web is the most effective tool for "having a voice" that the Human Race has ever had, why do you think China comes down so hard on it?
Don't just let Governments (or other people in power) pull the wool over your eyes with crap because it makes their jobs easier... Speak out!! (within legal boundaries)
Remember people, we live in Democracies (well, alot
Re:+1 Brilliant!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
> Remember people, we live in democracies (well, alot of us do!), you don't just have to bend over and take it unless THE MAJORITY AGREES
Fixed that for you.
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Re:+1 Brilliant!!! (Score:5, Funny)
you don't just have to bend over and take it unless THE MAJORITY AGREES
And usually that only happens in prisons.
And some greek islands, if we trust some old travel books.
myspace legal guides .flv (Score:5, Funny)
Before you freak out, please read this post as sarcastic.
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of the way the Drew / Mayer case played out. OTOH, the summary slips in one important fact that seems to have escaped media attention previously: The law they used is predicated on $500 of damage being done.
That doesn't make it right, but it is worth paying attention to the details. Those who say "every web site can write criminal law now" are -- albeit perhaps unintentionally -- exagerating. MyEvilWebSite.com can say "you must write a thank-you note to the webmaster every time you a
I for one. (Score:4, Funny)
Believe that we should start executing people for breaking their EULAs.
It's the next logical step towards a beautiful future.
The Subject Is Video Games (Score:2)
But the topic is MySpace. That's quite the tangent, unless there's a MySpace video game. Wait, there ISN'T, is there?
Can you *imagine* what the MySpace game would be like?
::shudder::
Re:The Subject Is Video Games (Score:5, Funny)
Can you *imagine* what the MySpace game would be like?
I don't remember the final score, but Dante wrote a detailed review.
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Thanshin wins the thread.
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Can you *imagine* what the MySpace game would be like?
I thought there was - don't they call it "Second Life"?
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But the topic is MySpace. That's quite the tangent, unless there's a MySpace video game. Wait, there ISN'T, is there?
Can you *imagine* what the MySpace game would be like? ::shudder::
Myspace is a video game. You don't think it's real do you?
If you don't want your kids to play these games... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most kids are bright enough to tell fiction from reality, and the ones who aren't are likely to get into trouble anyway.
I hesitate to say it, but George Carlin was right - "Wait, the kid who eats too many marbles doesn't get to grow up to have kids of his own? Good. Fuck 'em."
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Exactly. The ones who have problems with video games are the ones who have problems anyway. I played 18 rated games in my early teens and I worked out okay because I knew that there was a difference between reality and fiction. If you don't know that then films, books and even childhood "role playing" games like "Cowboys and Indians" can have pretty much the same effect and cause you to th
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The danger is not so much as the child not knowing the difference between fictional and real. But the fact at young ages kids get emotionally connected. Even non-violent games, they get very angry when they loose candy land (a game of chance). But with Video games the child really gets emotionally connected the game, and normally really connects himself with the characters, and when he plays outside of the game he usually plays the video game that he is connected to. Leading them to do dangerous activities,
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If a kid breaks another kids arm when playing with a baseball bat, he's learnt a damn hard lesson and won't d
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You've got a point. I'm 24, I primarially grew up without many video games, and the ones I had most people would call acceptable due to the shockingly bad graphics.
When I was a child...
I grew up without GTA yet I stole.
I grew up not watching violent tv/movies/games yet I got in fights... a lot.
I crashed bikes, fell in black berries, teased kids, got teased and put myself in all sorts of dangerous situations.
People and children have always done this and always will. There is nothing wrong with it. In fact, I
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I never hesitate to say that George Carlin was right. He was always right.
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Boo the Dictator (Score:2, Funny)
Boo the Dictator Bush at several events while dodging Sheeple, Cronies and Zombie Service agents. Victory at the end of each round is celebrated with a pitcher of ice cold beer, a big fat blunt and a porn magazine.
Rated "E" for Everyone as everyone should know IT IS JUST A FUCKING GAME FOR CHRIST SAKE!
Brought to you by Trollcom.
Why is so hard for people to read TFA? (Score:2, Insightful)
"effectively giving MySpace the power to dictate criminal law." is a load of rubbish, people need to read TFA before making statements like that. Lori was prosecuted for using a fake account to ILLEGALLY HARASS and VICTIMISE A MINOR!
The prosecution used the available and existing laws to ensure some sort of punishment for this crime as it generally fell into a non-existing law area. No laws were changed, no laws were trampled on. Unless people sign terms of agreement anywhere, AND intend to mis-represent th
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No. If people sign terms of service anywhere AND break them in any way causing a minimum of $500 damages they have to fear criminal charges for unauthorized access.
intend to mis-represent themselves -> Not limited to that. More generally, break a ToS.
victimise minors to the point of physical/mental harm or death
Re:Minimum of $500 damages (Score:2)
1 Copy of a Hanson's "mmBop" song, or the billable hour when the lawyer laughed and spat coffee all over a brief?
Solution is simple (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, the solution is simple. Just do it like they do in NZ. Exactly the same system for video games as for movies. Effectively it just becomes the following:
R18 - Sexual content / Drugs / Extreme violence - GTA
R16 - High levels of violence - UT
M - Medium level violence, alcohol, etc - Baldur's Gate
G - Everyone - Tetris
It's illegal to supply anything with an R rating to someone under the R rating age, even if you're their parent. Nice and simple, and you never have problems with people claiming they didn't know what their kids were playing.
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Dude, that sucks. Why should the government dictate what games parents are allowed to give to their children? I played many games that would be considered R16/R18 when I was younger than 16, and many of my friends did the same, and none of us became crazy drunken women-beating drug-dealing axe-murderers.
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Wow, that's a great solution, let the government be your kid's nanny so you don't have to be concerned about ever making decisions for them.
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I don't follow. What problem is this rating system intended to solve? Can you demonstrate that there is a problem to begin with?
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We could do something like that in the US, but first we would have to change the Constitution.
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But hey, I'm ok with some random industry group effectively having censorship powers over an entire class of media, aren't you?
Tetris on drugs (Score:2)
Seriously, the solution is simple. Just do it like they do in NZ. Exactly the same system for video games as for movies.
The film and game rating systems in the United States already have a one-to-one correspondence: E==G, E10+==PG, T==PG-13, M==R, and AO==NC-17. The only way I can see that it could be made more like the OFLC systems in place in Australia and New Zealand would be if the ESRB were to refuse classification to any video game that would be rated R if it were a film.
R18 - Sexual content / Drugs / Extreme violence - GTA
[...]
G - Everyone - Tetris
But how would you rate Dr. Mario or Lockjaw: The Overdose [pineight.com]? They're Tetris-style puzzle games with thinly veiled drug references.
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And if it has content which is more extreme than the R18? Should it be banned? That's effectively what has happened in Australia.
Government has no place in dictating what ANYONE can and can't expose themselves to.
The laws don't stop them, they just inhibit business, and reduce the freedom of the law abiding citizen.
How's about we try and get equality for everyone, and stop treating people differently.
The question is more... (Score:2)
Why are needed "new" laws for "online"?
The current laws for "offline" would work as well, so why???
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Because a) the law makers don't understand the Internet and think it is somehow a completely different entity where existing rules don't fit*, b) they want to look like they're doing something and c) a good proportion of the general populace are in the same boat on point a) and demand or fall for point b).
.
* This is the same for parents who treat the Internet as some big nasty that'll cause their children to become drug-addicted psychopaths who get molested when the real-world rules of "avoid the bad bits"
New medium, new fear (Score:5, Informative)
Different societies have different value systems, and so different countries regulate different media in different ways.
What's important is that games get treated fairly against other media and regulated for what they are, not what scared, ignorant people worry they might be. The problem is that governments and legislators don't yet "get" games, and so fear and ignorance reign supreme.
As an example, in Australia, the government has a Classification Board that rates books, TV, movies and games. The Board is supposed to represent the values of the community and it generally does a pretty good job. Very few movies are refused classification (eg: banned).
Not so with video games. Games are regularly refused classification in Australia, largely because the highest classification for games is MA15+ - so if a game is considered only suitable for adults, then it can't be classified.
Yes, this is ludicrous and there's been a huge response from the local industry [abc.net.au] and a lot of local gamers. You can read more about it here [wikipedia.org] if you are interested.
The point I'm trying to make, though, is that games are not treated on the same level as other forms of media in Australia, because they're poorly understood by government as a medium - mainly because the people in government didn't grow up playing games. I'd bet there are similar issues to varying degrees in other countries.
Give it a decade or so and things will be different. Until then, we're going to have to keep putting up with emotive comments and costly ineffective legislation from politicians looking for cheap popularity amongst their ignorant and fearful dull-eyed constituents.
go away gov't (Score:2)
WTF? (Score:2)
Fairfield also points out combinations of laws, which, when put together make for strange outcomes. The biggest of these, for video games, is the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. In short, gaining unauthorized access to someone's computer and doing $500 in damages opens you up for criminal charges.
Sony rooted my PC, resulting in loss of hours of my time, well over $500 worth. Why aren't any of Sony's executives in prison?
It's good for prosecuting hackers
And another slashdot story asks about hackable digital co
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Meier case = travesty;hypocrisy of violence vs sex (Score:3, Insightful)
Firstly I (and many others) feel that the verdict in the Drew case was a travesty, set a horrible precedent and was the one of the absolute worst uses of the judicial system in recent years - the implications are huge and could affect all of us who spend a lot of time online. It was an abuse of the legal system in my mind, tapping into people's emotions about a tragedy to get a dubious legal ruling passed - it was a judicial lynch mob.
Secondly I am so tired of the double standard in video games in how any type of the most gruesome violence is permitted (with the rating system) but even a minor mention of sex or nudity and the game can;t be made. Sex has to be sanitized, yet you can blow someones brains out.
I love violent games as much as the next person, the generally are some of the best games out there - well made shooters are especially up my alley - loved GTA, but damn, it would be nice not to have to tiptoe around any sex or nudity (if it's appropriate). In games made for adults this should be an option. I am not talking about having those things just for the sake of having them, but am referring to the ability for a designer to make a game truly geared towards adults that isn't a lame excuse/attempt at porn. I would like to see the ability for AO titles to be viable, what that would be I don't know, but take the sex scene is GTA4 - they could have made those a lot more fun or funny had they had a little visual latitude.
As a parent I totally understand how and why people are concerned about violent games. I play a lot of games I wouldn't want my daughter to play until she is old enough to understand certain things. The biggest issue I would have with these sort of games is the same issue I have with TV and some movies when it comes to kids, and it the desensitization to violence and the pain and suffering of others. I think that can do a real disservice to the humanity inside a person if they grow up constantly witnessing violent acts.
However, with all of that said I think that it is a parent's job to monitor what their kids see and buy and put it in the proper context.
I do think that the voluntary ratings system is the way to go....The absolute worst thing that could be done is censorship of game content by the government - it would especially be pointless because it's not like it would have an effect on TV (which is much worse). Censorship doesn't solve anything - it's bad enough that the industry self censors based on what they think will sell or be controversial.
Parents who aren't digitally literate could use a little education about these ratings and what they mean, but all in all determining what is appropriate for a child or the market isn't a government job, it's a parent/industry job, and for the record if given the choice between my child seeing explicit violence or explicit sex it's my feeling that sex is much less harmful.
Re:Meier case = travesty;hypocrisy of violence vs (Score:2)
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I'm sorry, but you're wrong - certainly you're entitled to your opinion about whaty happened to Lori Drew, I agree that she was sick and deserved a lot of things - but don't pervert our legal system to try to turn something that isn't a crime into a crime ex post facto.
The verdict on the other hand could affect a lot of people, it could affect me, so on that count you're just plain wrong.
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Are you suggesting that just because she did it online and under a false identity means that she shouldn't be held accountable?
Um, no. She should be punished for the harassment, not for signing up with a fake name. If the former is not actually a crime, then fix that rather than turning the latter into one. As it stands now, just about every Internet user in the US has committed a federal crime, so we should all hope we haven't annoyed any government officials lately.
And yes, if that means Lori Drew gets to
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It's funny to see people reacting exactly how the media and jurors in the case did - emotionally, without considering thhat there is a right and a wrong thing to do things, and that the rule of law HAS to be adhered to in all cases, ESPECIALLY in cases where the public feels a heinous wrong has been done.
We cannot compromise long held principles in a one of a kind situation just because we feel someone needs to be punished to to make an example of her.
Harrassment charges would have been fine. The woman is a
"Hackers"? (Score:2)
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On the other hand, as somebody who feels that there are certain types of games minors definitely should not be playing, I wish we would see more self-regulation from the games and retail industry, or at least some serious attempts to keep games out of hands of minors witho
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I guess parent used the wrong 'Reply' button.
Do you think these 'serious attempts to keep games out of hands of minors' should restrict a parents ability to buy games for their children? After all, age does not denote maturity ( which is also why I think the 'age of consent' is ridiculous' but that's another topic )
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Those who play games don't realize their loss. (Score:3, Insightful)
Those who play games don't realize that they are socially backward because they are socially backward.
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The biggest issue, it seems to me, is that people who spend a lot of time playing video games generally lack social skills. While everyone else was learning how to relate to the world, video game players were learning how to relate to video games.
Those who play games don't realize that they are socially backward because they are socially backward.
As I parent and actually remembering my teenage years that's a good thing. Why? Because if they are at home watching TV or playing video games, I know exactly wher
U.S. children often get little adult attention. (Score:2)
Children need a huge amount of adult attention. They need more attention than the adult just assuring himself that he knows what they are doing.
"During my teenage years those "not socially backward" kids as you would put them would be drinking, smoking, having sex..." That's because they got very, very little adult attention.
"... or sometimes partying." Par
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my POV is this: in the lunch buffet that is life, i want to try all the tasty looking things. its that simple. so while you think public school + church + family = fulfilling life (or existence), i think the opposite.
i worry that the existential realization will haunt your kids as they realize that there is much
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my POV is this: in the lunch buffet that is life, i want to try all the tasty looking things. its that simple. so while you think public school + church + family = fulfilling life (or existence), i think the opposite
Hey, it was through public school + church + family that I learned that all those apparently tasty looking things are "bad for you."
i worry that the existential realization will haunt your kids as they realize that there is much much more to life then being a good kid or pleasing god.
I said that
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The biggest issue, it seems to me, is that people who spend a lot of time playing video games generally lack social skills. While everyone else was learning how to relate to the world, video game players were learning how to relate to video games.
Those who play games don't realize that they are socially backward because they are socially backward.
As I parent and actually remembering my teenage years that's a good thing. Why? Because if they are at home watching TV or playing video games, I know exactly where they are, what they are doing, and what they aren't doing. During my teenage years those "not socially backward" kids as you would put them would be drinking, smoking, having sex, or sometimes partying. So I'd much rather my kids be "socially backward" in that respect. My wife and I don't drink or smoke, and we close and lock the door when we have sex. What other good example do we have to be to our kids?
My kids go to public school and get dragged to church by the wife. It's how I grew up. Why shouldn't that be enough outside the family socialization?
Yup. What's considered "Socially Backwards" is largely in the eyes of the beholder. Some think that a kid is "socially backwards" if he is not out playing football, baseball, or some other Jock Sport.
Then you look at something like SecondLife, which engenders lots of social interaction in "cyberspace". Are SLers "socially backwards?"
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As I parent and actually remembering my teenage years that's a good thing. Why? Because if they are at home watching TV or playing video games, I know exactly where they are, what they are doing, and what they aren't doing. During my teenage years those "not socially backward" kids as you would put them would be drinking, smoking, having sex, or sometimes partying. So I'd much rather my kids be "socially backward" in that respect.
From a parent's perspective of keeping their kids out of trouble, that makes p
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From a parent's perspective of keeping their kids out of trouble, that makes perfect sense. But you can go too far. *Most* kids left to their own devices would party too much, so society and parents try to discourage that. But there are a minority of kids (probably well represented on /.) who given the choice would spend almost all their time reading or studying or playing video games or other solitary activities. These kids should actually be nudged toward hanging out with friends and going to parties and
Oh, spare me. (Score:2)
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I know that if my teenage nephews wanted the most violent gory game on the planet I would have NO problem with buying it for them.
I have a problem with that. They're not your kids. If you feel so strongly about it, perhaps you could persuade your brother/sister on the argument of letting their kids play the games in question. I'm guessing that the parents have a problem with it and that's why the kids are coming to you.
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I'm off to play counter-strike and plant a bomb in a non-descript the middle eastern town...
Re:man the last election sucked (Score:4, Insightful)
Well.. according to the article, there were 2 laws made, and both have been shutdown.. Then it also talks about a Ca state law that is being fought..From what I gather, the industry is regulating themselves anyway.. I don't see what the hub-bub is all about.. The Constitution seems to be working just fine in this area.
As to "protecting" children... That is the parents job.. period. If I was a parent today, it would be up to me to decide when I felt they could handle the internet.. or to decide if I felt they had enough of a grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality to handle some of these games... Personally, I feel that any parent that has kids that are under the age of 16 or so surfing the internet by themselves are pretty shitty parents.
There is no kid safe internet.. and if people want that, they will have to build a separate read only internet with "approved" content.. until then, just keep em off it.. problem solved.
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Personally, I feel that any parent that has kids that are under the age of 16 or so surfing the internet by themselves are pretty shitty parents.
Yeah! If my parents hadn't (unknowingly) let me on the internet at age 12, I would never have gotten into contact with that guy from the chess club who wrote the chess-playing program which lead to me taking up programming.
Instead, I would have most likely just sat at home playing games instead of learning a marketable skill.
Had that been the case, I would have had two reasonable career choices after high school: turn my mediocre amateur musician skills into great professional musician skills, or study mat
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Hasn't anyone considered the possibility that the reason why children become aggressive when told to stop doing something they are enjoying, is because they were enjoying it?
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe he enjoys the DS or computer more, elevating it from argument/backchat to full on tantrum. The reaction is proportional to the enjoyment of said item.
Re: (Score:2)
Try giving him some warning time. Explain to him that it's almost time for X, so you have 10 minutes left on your DS. Remind him at 5 and 2 minutes. That should be enough for him to wind down and get unimmersed. This works well enough on my GF's daughter, she's 7 next month.
Of course, this has nothing to do with video games and would be the same for any activity a child enjoys.