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XBox (Games) Bug Microsoft Entertainment Games

Microsoft Extends Xbox 360 Warranty To E74 Errors 142

Last month we discussed reports that Xbox 360 consoles were experiencing an increased number of "E74" errors. Now, Microsoft has announced that they're extending the three-year warranty originally designated for "general hardware failures" (read: Red Ring of Death) to include E74 repairs as well. From the support page post: "... we are aware that a very small percentage of our customers have reported receiving an error that displays 'E74' on their screen. After investigating the issue, we have determined that the E74 error message can indicate the general hardware failure that is associated with three flashing red lights error on the console. ... Microsoft will refund to customers the amount paid for an out of warranty repair due to a general hardware failure associated with the E74 error message."
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Microsoft Extends Xbox 360 Warranty To E74 Errors

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  • Pinto of console (Score:4, Informative)

    by rarel ( 697734 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @03:42AM (#27583237) Homepage
    This has got to be the Ford Pinto of consoles. I can't believe people are still spending their hard-earned cash on such a badly designed piece of go-se.

    It's one thing to understand your console may be bricked at some point during its lifetime, but when you know it will, and it could very much be when you open the box...

    Warranty or not, I don't get it. The whole 360 mess is a shame of epic proportions.

    • Re:Pinto of console (Score:5, Informative)

      by Renraku ( 518261 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @03:49AM (#27583273) Homepage

      Most of my friends are 360 owners. 10, maybe 15 people, in person.

      I'm pretty sure that every single one of them, with the exception of one of of them, have had to send their 360's back for repairs.

      Multiple times.

      The people I know that have PS3s (about 7) have never had to send their system in for repair. Nor have the people that own Wii's (about 5).

      Microsoft may have the most market penetration, but I have to wonder how much its costing them to replace 80% of the original 360's with new hardware.

      • Replacing ~8 million consoles? I have no idea how much that cost! =P Can anyone here do the math?

        • by noundi ( 1044080 )
          I think we're missing a pretty important factor: production cost.
          • at this point, they may be making a slight profit on the 360, but they originally sold it at a loss. So you could estimate it costs them the retail price (which varies due 10 or so different configurations).
            • by Threni ( 635302 )

              What, it costs them hundreds of dollars to make each one? Why? What's the expensive bit? The power supply? CPU? Perhaps you're adding up the amount it cost to design and test the code and divvy that up amongst the number of units sold? (It would certainly make the first box sold very expensive).

              • by iocat ( 572367 )
                Most of the ones they send out to replace broken ones are refurbs, not new systems. I'm surprised I haven't gotten one of my own back yet, to be honest, given that I'm on my SEVENTH. As for why people keep buying and playing them... absent the hardware issues, it's an awesome system with great third party suport and the best "friends list" capability.
      • Microsoft may have the most market penetration...

        Under what definition of 'market penetration' possibly puts the Xbox 360 above the Wii? I mean I think more sales, the faster rate of sales, and just about every other statistic (your gran has one) is a bit more real evidence than the sample size that is your friends.

      • Re:Pinto of console (Score:4, Interesting)

        by V50 ( 248015 ) * on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @05:08AM (#27583587) Journal

        I own all three consoles, and, interestingly, only my Wii has had to be sent in for repair. My PS3 had a small issue with filesystem corruption, but that was easily fixed with the recovery menu (with no data loss, I may add.)

        Oddly enough, my 360 (green Halo 3 edition) has been the only system of mine to never have had a problem. Certainly, my experience is an exception though, I know far more people who have had their 360s RROD than anything else.

        Actually, I'm the only person I know who has ever had a problem with their Wii. The laser got stuck and wouldn't go up all the way. It could only read Gamecube discs, and Wii games up until the laser had to move.

        To be fair, Microsoft has been reasonably good about fixing 360s, and it's cost them quite a bit. I do wonder if MS partially anticipated this, and accepted it in order to get the 360 out a year early.

        • by neomunk ( 913773 )

          I had a problem with my Wii too (sounds like something I should be saying to my doctor, but I digress), the laser got dirty or something and stopped playing Super Smash Bros Brawl (because it's 2 layer, I think). After searching on the internet for likely causes I discovered that it's a fairly common problem. Well, it's what USED to be called a "fairly common" problem before the XBox360 redefined "fairly common" to mean "almost everyone".

          Nintendo is good about fixing it though.

        • I also own all three consoles. I've had a different experience with them, though.

          I'm on my second Wii. The first (purchased on launch day) died after a month; apparently with WiiConnect24 on, the system overheated and damaged the video card. I was told I was the first in Canada to have this problem; it became more widespread a bit later. No problems since (though it hasn't seen much use lately).

          The first 360 I purchased scratched disks. I returned this to the store immediately. The second eventually re

      • by Ash-Fox ( 726320 )

        Most of my friends are 360 owners. 10, maybe 15 people, in person.

        I have 31 gamer friends:

        31 have PCs (4 have more than one gaming PC too)
        6 have 360s
        14 have a Wii
        2 have a PS3

      • When my friend bought his the first 12 he got did not work out of the box.
      • MS isn't sending new hardware, they send you back a refurbished machine. Its a lot cheaper to send out someone else's crappy machine than it is to send brand new hardware. Some people have reported getting back their exact same broken hardware, still broken (multiple times).

      • How would they know their PS3s are broken if they don't turn them on?

      • The people I know that have PS3s (about 7) have never had to send their system in for repair.

        Well, let me fix that for you. [] First and second generation PS3 blu-ray drive failure rate (90 nm generation) is high. Nobody knows how high because Sony has not admitted the problem. Sony charges $150 to fix it, and pretends they do not know exactly what what failed and why. It is just amazing to me that somebody at Sony thinks it makes business sense to burn its early adopters this way.

    • Re:Pinto of console (Score:5, Informative)

      by RogueyWon ( 735973 ) * on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @04:28AM (#27583441) Journal

      The reason why people are still buying 360s is because it has the games. Of the three consoles, the 360 has, for the moment, the best all round coverage of genres and styles to satisfy most people who consider themselves to be gamers. The PS3 is slowly making up lost ground here, with a few genuinely excellent exclusives like Valkyria Chronicles, but right now, it has no racing game to match Forza 2, no Western RPGs to match Mass Effect and no Japanese RPGs to match Lost Odyssey. Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII will probably go some way to closing those gaps, but neither is due for imminent release.

      But yes, the hardware situation is pretty dire. My 360 red-ringed on me the other week, just outside of the 3 year warrenty. I didn't make a big fuss out of this, as I'd been considering buying an Elite anyway. But what really did frustrate me is how, for a console known for catastrophic rates of hardware failure, the process of transferring all of your content to a new console is still an absolute pain in the backside. You either send off... via *snail mail* to Microsoft for a transfer kit, or you transfer your Xbox Live account manually, redownload your XBLA games via the most hideous, user-unfriendly interface imaginable and then try to transfer your saves by swapping back and forward between hard disks and using a memory card. Except that some games have restrictions on their saves that don't let them be moved to a memory card (presumably to prevent people from cheating in *single player games* by downloading saves off the net).

      A couple of changes are badly needed here - first, a simple, one-button "redownload all of my previously purchased content" option on the Xbox Live interface. Second, a complete lifting on any restrictions regarding the copying and transfer of save games. Oh, and while you're at it MS, add an online form for requesting the free transfer kits. Because they way you do it at the moment, one might almost get the impression that you were actively trying to discourage people from sending off for them.

      • by Bert64 ( 520050 ) <bert AT slashdot DOT firenzee DOT com> on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @04:38AM (#27583487) Homepage

        You get screwed by buying a flakey console that has died on you outside of warranty, and you punish the company that screwed you over by... buying another console?

        Get a third party RROD fix kit and see if that works, chip the box at the same time so you can make backups of your games in case the machine decides to shred them (as some have)... And complain, no company who sells you sub standard products should be rewarded with another purchase to replace the original failed product.

        • Meh, the original had seen a lot of use and, as I say, I'd been pretty close to deciding to go for an Elite anyway. The 3 years warrenty on the new one should comfortably carry me over into the next console generation.

          Back in the last generation, I had 2 Gamecubes die on me (one just suddenly refused to go past the initial splash screen, the other had that little flippy-lid-thingy torn off by an overenthusiastic 8 year old who was visiting over Christmas). Having to replace dead consoles isn't actually a ne

          • This is correct. I bought my 60GB model just as the 80 came out, and it went tits up (Im one of the very few) It wouldnt read anything. The little bubble would look like it was trying, but nothing would load.

            Long and short, i brought it back to walmart and wanted a replacement 60GB model, well... i had apparently bought the last one, with no new shipments of them in.

            I settled for an 80GB model with Motorstorm at no extra cost. WINNAR!!!!
          • The 3 years warrenty on the new one should comfortably carry me over into the next console generation.

            Personally, carrying me over into the next console generation isn't good enough. I want my systems to last until, at the very least, emulators are good enough to replace it. It's not like I'm going to stop playing the current games just because new ones come out.

            Back in the last generation, I had 2 Gamecubes die on me...Having to replace dead console isn't actually a new or uncommon experience.

            I've never had to replace a console. I still have my genesis in working condition. I have an old friend that still has the same Atari 2600 I used to play at his house when we were kids, and it's in perfect working condition. I do know multiple

            • by brkello ( 642429 )
              Then your probably shouldn't buy any consoles. Consoles that use discs are going to fail a lot quicker than the old ones that used cartridges.
              • Then your probably shouldn't buy any consoles. Consoles that use discs are going to fail a lot quicker than the old ones that used cartridges.

                Heh...I didn't feel the need to mention that the SegaCD plugged to my genesis is also still in working condition, but if you're going to argue that point, I guess I should. My Saturn and Dreamcast are also fine. I gave away my PS2 when I got a PS3, and as far as I know, that's also still working.

                Not to mention, of course, that the Red Ring of Death isn't being caused by optical drive failures.

                Seriously, the failure rate of consoles other than the 360 are pretty low. They do fail, and the optical drive ca

        • And write off the investment in games he's already made? In many cases, that investment is significantly higher than the cost of the console itself.

          And yes, the 360 is pretty shoddy hardware, especially the cooling design, but at least it's cheap. I could buy a new 360 every single year, and it would still work out cheaper than the money I used to spend on my gaming PC keeping it up to date.

          A friend of mine had graphical glitches on his original gen before it finally red ringed out of warranty - he's tried

        • You buy a [Ford|etc.] vehicle and it dies on you and they won't fix it. You buy another and it does the same. You don't buy [Ford|etc.] vehicles anymore, do you?

          Lots of people I know won't buy a Ford/GM/Toyota/whatever because of a bad experience in the past. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and that counts in any type of retail as well.

      • by KDR_11k ( 778916 )

        From what I can see the 360 has deeper coverage of the genres it has but many genres are missing completely. Or at least the games fail to point out that they are in a different genre because when I look at the store shelves it looks like they're all sports, racing, xPS and western RPGs with a few minor outliers that don't even make a dent, mostly due to a lack of quality (like the RTS genre which for some godforsaken reason pops up more and more frequently on consoles that only have analog sticks and NEVER

    • Re:Pinto of console (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Xest ( 935314 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @06:12AM (#27583839)

      I know there's probably not much point saying this to you seeing as you've decided to troll about the console without seeming to have actually ever owned one, but when it comes to I find it's still the better console for the games I like (I have a Wii and also a PS3 as well now - I finally caved despite the lack of price drop).

      When repairs are free and fast I don't see the big deal, yeah we shouldn't have to be without our consoles for a couple of days, but it's still the console I find that I keep going back to regardless and I figured I'd rather be without a console I enjoy for a few days now and then but keep playing it a ton when I do have it than it is to have something like the Wii sat gathering dust because you can only play so many party games, and a lot of the other games simply aren't as good on the Wii (FPS games, arcade games for example).

      The PS3 is a more solid piece of hardware for sure, but I've only had it a few months now and have long completed all the games I wanted to play on it (MGS4 etc.). The PS3 would have more longevity for me if I didn't also have a 360 because of the cross-platform games, but I'd rather buy them on the 360 due to often getting the option of better DLC, getting Live integration and achievements etc.

      Bitch all you want about the fact the console fails, the fact it inconveniences you for maybe a few days in 2 to 3 years is really not a big deal when it keeps you coming back the rest of the time.

      It's for this reason that Microsoft will continue to keep increasing it's lead on the PS3 at least.

      FWIW, I've had my 360 since 2006, prior to the v2 consoles I had to get mine replaced due to the RROD issue 3 times, but here in the UK it was in statutory warranty each time so I could just return it to the shop, get it replaced there and then and come home with a brand new console with fresh new controllers. I've not had to get a replacement since the v2 consoles and I've not even heard of this E74 error so I'd wage a bet the majority of problems are resolved now judging from personal experience and that of friends with 360s. It was a pain having to get the licenses for my DLC transferred back then but that's a process you can do now automatically (meaning you can move content to a different console now if you wish). When I did have to phone up though I was given 3200 MS points each time which was nice. Effectively the failure left me with a net gain when the only inconvenience was a 10 minute journey to the retailer for a swap over and a quick phone call to an MS free phone number in the worst case. In all honesty, personally, and I mean personally, due to the experience I've had I'm not even sure I'd have been happier if my consoles hadn't failed - I'd have worn controllers and would be down about £80 worth of Microsoft points.

      I'm not totally defending the failures and I realise in other countries where consumer laws are less helpful meaning you actually have to send the console away it must be more of a pain but I really find the hardware failures a relatively minor fault when you look at it objectively. I've not found having downtime with the console any worse than say paying for an MMO subscription and having the servers bugger up for a few days (or weeks in the case of the old European Dark Age of Camelot servers), I've also not found it any worse than having to deal with crippling DRM on PC games which has prevented me playing some of them despite being legitimately purchased when I've wanted to.

      The thing is, despite the failures, the 360 is still the best console for many. It doesn't have the following of the Wii but it still has a hefty userbase and is increasing it's lead week on week on the PS3 quite well right now. For me, right now, the 360 and the DS are definitely my two favourite gaming systems.

      • The plural of anecdote isn't data, despite this thread setting out to prove otherwise - but between myself and 2 friends I'm aware of 6 or 7 xboxen that haven't failed once, the oldest of which dates back to about 2 months after launch. I've also been gaming since I were a nipper and other than vaguely missing Gran Turismo I've never felt the need to run out and buy a PS3 or wii. Keeping GTA PS-exclusive would probably have got me buying one though.
      • Bitch all you want about the fact the console fails, the fact it inconveniences you for maybe a few days in 2 to 3 years is really not a big deal when it keeps you coming back the rest of the time.

        Well, Microsoft's never really competed on quality before. They just work on being the lowest-cost provider, and it's worked out pretty well. You might be right. For me, $200 is a bit more than I want to pay for something 'disposable', but there's no denying they've sold a bunch of 360s.

        the 360 is... increasing

        • by Xest ( 935314 )

          "When you look at the actual sales slopes, and count the fact that a significant number of 360 sales are people buying a new console 'cause their old one died out of warranty or for issues that aren't covered by the warranty extension, that doesn't seem to be the case."

          I'm not sure that's true. Microsoft gave a 3 year warranty for the original consoles and the new generation ones seem to be as stable as either the Wii or PS3. Most failures would've been replaced in warranty with the new gen stable consoles

    • This has got to be the Ford Pinto of consoles. I can't believe people are still spending their hard-earned cash on such a badly designed piece of go-se.
      The thing is that the alternatives have thier problems too, the wii doesn't do HD and is generally targetting at kids/casual gamers. The PS3 is nice (I have one) but it's FAR more expensive than the xbox 360 (looking at one of the major retailers over here the base model 360 is less than half the price of the base model PS3)

      So for the gamer who wa

    • by Darby ( 84953 )

      I can't believe people are still spending their hard-earned cash on such a badly designed piece of go-se.

      I have a friend at work who is even ostensibly anti-microsoft who sent his back twice. When it broke the third time he bought himself a brand new one and gave the busted one to a friend (once it returns from repair). The rest of our jaws dropped when he said that. He's usually pretty smart, so when he did something that fucking dumb we were stunned.

    • Microsoft rushed the Xbox 360 to market for a plethora of reasons I've covered before.

      The long story short is the Xbox 1 was costing them money, due to intel and nvidia being assholes about the licensing of the chips used in the system.
      They also wanted to beat the PS3 and Nintendo offering AND they wanted to reach the Xmas audience (06 iirc?)

      It was a smart move to an extent, that full year got quite the jump on Sony and of course let them 'flush out' the Xbox 1 which was a huge cost to them (at the expense

  • by BJ_Covert_Action ( 1499847 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @03:44AM (#27583243) Homepage Journal
    "The repair procedure will deprive you of your overpriced gaming console for more than two weeks which, though you legally paid for and own, you are not allowed to unscrew and open in order to clean out the excessive amount of obfuscated legal BS that came with the interior of your purchase. Have a nice day...."
    • by Imagix ( 695350 )
      Two weeks? My RRoD took them 2 months. First their online system lost my repair request. Then I called them and got the email that says my repair's been registered, but never got the shipping label to send them my unit. Then we arranged to have them ship me a box, which didn't arrive. Then a second box which finally did arrive.
  • 5+ years old, and they still haven't ironed out the bugs, erm I mean features.

  • It cost 2 Billion to cover the RROD, how much to cover E74??
    As a SHAREHOLDER I am very angry. What are we, a piggy bank?
    • by tb3 ( 313150 )

      You know what they say, a billion here, a billion there, and soon you're talking about real money.

      It was never more true than for Microsoft.

  • by SpazmodeusG ( 1334705 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @04:13AM (#27583375) []
    Only cause listed: "This problem occurs when the Xbox 360 console experiences a general hardware failure."
    So the original warranty covers general hardware failures and Microsofts kb article acknowledges E74 as a general hardware failure.

    So aren't they simply covering this under warranty because they have to?
    • by assemblerex ( 1275164 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @04:17AM (#27583401)
      This was always covered in consoles under one year warranty.
      After that you were SOL
      By increasing it to 3 years, they triple their liability
      and costs.
      Please think before you type.
    • by donaldm ( 919619 )

      So aren't they simply covering this under warranty because they have to?

      All companies normally carry out testing and quality assurance on all products they manufacture. By using fairly simple and some not so simple statistical analysis a company can determine the reliability and thus possible failure rate of a product over time. Once an acceptable failure rate is determined then the potential failure and subsequent replacement or repair of a product is actually factored into the total cost of that product to the customer over the so called warranty period, which can be anything

    • by KDR_11k ( 778916 )

      They previously offered an extended warranty for a certain set of hardware failures and E74 was not in that set.

  • Sale of Goods act (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DrScotsman ( 857078 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @05:08AM (#27583583)

    At least for us Brits, it's time we stopped relying on these warranties and go back to the good ol' Sale of Goods act, where goods must last "a reasonable length of time" and the liability is with the retailer. My brother keeps bringing his consoles back to GAME, and they just give him a new one except the hard drive (annoyingly meaning he has to be signed in to live to use content downloaded on a previous Xbox, but IIRC MS don't always give you your exact console back). Quick and easy. If enough people do this, it will eventually become infeasible for many retailers to actually stock the Xbox, and THEN Microsoft may actually do something.

    Okay that's wishful thinking and isn't going to happen, but considering it's usually a lot easier and quicker to take it back to the retailer than send it to MS, you should do it anyway.

    • I guess that retailers tend to have a different opinion on that one.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Crizp ( 216129 )

      We have something like that in Norway. An item is generally under one year warranty from the manufacturer (some items like washing machines come with a three-year warranty) but in cases where the product is "supposed to last longer" than the warranty you can demand to have it fixed for free -- mention the consumer ombudsman when talking to the company. Like a TV - if it fritzes after a year and two months, you CAN get it fixed for nothing still.

    • If enough people do this, it will eventually become infeasible for many retailers to actually stock the Xbox, and THEN Microsoft may actually do something.

      Perhaps they'll follow our American model of paying to have the law changed in their favor.

    • Re:Sale of Goods act (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sockatume ( 732728 ) on Wednesday April 15, 2009 @08:41AM (#27584671)
      You may want to tell him to use this site [] to transfer his licences, so he no longer has to be signed in.
    • by Xest ( 935314 )

      This is exactly what I did and as you say they just give you a new one.

      Regarding your brother having to sign in, that can be fixed. You can either phone up MS and get them to shift the licenses and complain so that they give you some MS points as an apology or you can do it yourself without the complaint on

      The retailers don't lose out when you return it to them, they just return it to Microsoft and claim back off of them. As such there's no real loss for the retailer in accepting returns and offeri

      • The retailers don't lose out when you return it to them, they just return it to Microsoft and claim back off of them. As such there's no real loss for the retailer in accepting returns and offering replacements.

        While Microsoft would reimburse the retailer for the actual console, I imagine that just like when you're taking the faulty 360 back to the retailer you don't get reimbursed for travel costs (except very rarely), there will be some kind of overhead cost for the retailer that Microsoft is not reimbursing them for. On an individual basis that loss might be small, or as you said not a "real loss", but it might become massive when you consider how many defective consoles there are.

        No good examples are coming t

        • by Xest ( 935314 )

          I think the reason we get ripped off in Britain is partly to cover these costs. I think they make enough profit to be able to factor the costs you mention in and then some on top compared to other countries who get everything cheaper so although you're right it may take a cut out of what they could potentially make, they still make more off UK consumers per console than almost anywhere else in the world even in such a scenario.

  • Is the fact that it is so damn noisy. The fan is bad enough but the fact I will be watching a video from my computer and the drive is spinning. WTF is that for?

    • by Ash-Fox ( 726320 )

      Is the fact that it is so damn noisy. The fan is bad enough but the fact I will be watching a video from my computer and the drive is spinning. WTF is that for?

      It's to give you the xbox experience.

  • Sucks that I have to wait for the box to come in over the long weekend. Funny, mine was a month within its year warranty anyway, so I was lucky either way, but I think it's funny that it clunked out so close to the warranty expiration date.
    • I thought I read somewhere MS stopped sending coffins in the US? FWIW, I own all three, the Wii died once and took about 6 weeks to get replaced. It was kind of a suprise because we never really use the thing. The 360 died twice, once was a 2 week replacement and the other was due to a power supply failure. The people at the call center weren't much help in troubleshooting that. The PS3 has never been repaired, but it's really just a blue-ray player for us. The 360 gets by far the most use. Best onli
  • I've officially missed the warranty boat. I picked up my 360 on 1/1/2006 and have not had a problem with it. It is the only console I own and it acts as my main DVD player as well. It is consistenly used and has not faltered. I'm not sure what the difference is, because everyone I know is either on their 3rd or 4th replacement.

    They think it has something to do with the woodgrain faceplate.

    I would be interested to know how many people HAVE NOT had a problem with this console? They're usually the least

    • Mine made it 2 years and 5 months before the RROD last month. I was actually pretty happy about it, since the timing of my purchase made it seem like I had one of the more problematic batches, so I was hoping it would crap out before the warranty expired. Factor in that the console they returned to me was far far quieter than the one I sent in, and that this isn't really the time of year for blockbuster game releases and I'd say it actually worked out pretty well for me.

  • Does this mean I get my $100 back from when my 360 broke two weeks after the warranty expired and I had to get it replaced?
  • The sticker on the side clearly said to only use E85.

  • Microsoft has discounted the entry-level Doesn't-Do-Much Xbox 360 to $200 from Friday, $50 cheaper than the Nintendo Wii. (This will translate to a GBP250 price point in the UK.)

    "We are thrilled to be the first next-generation console on the market with a big 'Microsoft' logo on it to reach $199, a price that invites everyone to enjoy Xbox 360," said Aaron Greenberg, marketing marketer for Xbox. He says this will cause a "smash and grab" mentality amongst consumers. "And not 'grab and smash' as they throw

    • umm over here in the uk right now (prices from and rounded to the nearest pound) the xbox 360 ranges from £130-£210 depending on model, the PS3 is £300 and the wii is £179

      The base model xbox 360 has been cheaper than the wii over here for some time afaict.

    • "Trying to make wiis fast enough to keep them in shops"

      I can go to any one of the big box stores here and find one no problem... Your post is a year and a half too late
  • Got mine back last week from repair, which was less than two weeks total. Came with a one-month Xbox Live card. No charges at all. Much quieter, too.

    My system was out of warranty, had three red lights, and had been opened on an attempted repair by me.

    Having been very dissillusioned, Microsoft has now somewhat redeemed itself.

    • Obviously they are getting good at fixing those machines, I guess practice makes one perfect. Often good care of failed product can lead to a great word of mouth advertisement.

"If you lived today as if it were your last, you'd buy up a box of rockets and fire them all off, wouldn't you?" -- Garrison Keillor