Accidental Wii Suicide 1343
Paul Taylor noted a story that I would have thought to be an April Fool's Day joke a few weeks from now, which makes it only seem more tragic. A 3-year-old shot herself with a gun after mistaking it for a Wii controller.
Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is manslaughter. Whoever left a gun near a 3-year-old needs locking up.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also called being a responsible parent, not only for the gun part, but for the Wii part. Who lets their three year-old play shooting games on the Wii? I have a Wii and Xbox360 and my seven year-old does not play violent games. Any games which have any possibility of bad content which he plays are played with me there. He's a damn smart kid but I want to reinforce the right ideas and right values in him.
This father should be hung. Who leaves a loaded gun in the house, let alone on the table, let alone with kids in the house? And you know what? Kids like guns, even before video game consoles. Even if this kid wouldn't have played Wii she probably would have grabbed it.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Absolutely. I am a conceal-carry holder and I have a number of handguns. I also have a one year-old and a seven year-old. I have an electronic safe which all my guns go in, as well as trigger locks. It's called being a responsible gun-owner.
Glad to see some other people are...it's getting harder and harder to find people that take the extra steps necessary to keep things safe.
This father should be hung. Who leaves a loaded gun in the house, let alone on the table, let alone with kids in the house? And you know what? Kids like guns, even before video game consoles. Even if this kid wouldn't have played Wii she probably would have grabbed it.
Not just loaded, but with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked back. Unless someone wants to try to convince me that a three year old had the knowledge and strength to pull the hammer back...
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Interesting)
My best educated guess is that what happened was that the little girl was holding the gun upside-down and looking down the barrel, with her thumb looped through the trigger. Basically imagine holding a gun where the barrel is directly up in the air, and you've got your thumb against the trigger and are holding the bottom of the grip with your fingers wrapped around it. She squeezed to hold it tight, as it natural to do in that position, and shot herself. I've read a few cases of this position in holding the gun causing this accident. It's absolutely terrible.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
What happens if you don't have both hands free so you can chamber a round while fending off an assailant with the other hand?
If they don't have a gun, run away. Or hit them.
If they do, give them your money/car/whatever rather than put your life at significant risk.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
That is just fantasy. If you get into that situation where your weapon is not ready and your opponent is grappling, then trying to draw it only raises the risk of yourself getting shot in the scuffle. The deterrent purpose of the gun is already gone, since (in your scenario) you are already under attack, and there is also a significant chance that the assailant could snatch the gun from you.
Now step back, and reflect again: a gun serves primarily as a deterrent, which means it does not need to have a round chambered. Secondly, if you do need to fire it, it is a trivial act to chamber a round. Thirdly, if the weapon does end up in the hands of a person who plans to use it against you, then you have a few more seconds to react since the other person will try to fire on the empty chamber to his or her frustration.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
And I agree 100% that the father should have the book thrown at him. There's no excuse for an accident like this...
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
Not to mention the fact that if guns are in the household (even if locked up) the kids need to be educated about them.
That requires parenting, and that's far too much work for most people it seems. They would rather use a scapegoat like the Wii, violent videogames, and music instead of taking responsibility for their actions.
It's a horrible situation where someone innocent lost their life, but it's even worse when justice isn't made.
The law should have gray areas, but there's nothing that should keep this man from facing some charge, even if it is to remove his second amendment rights.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if guns aren't in the household, kids need to be educated about them. A fair chunk of the incidents that occur are when kids visit friends houses which do have guns and don't know how to properly behave if they come across them.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
yeah, because her dad is probably really well right now.
He's an idiot, but I dunno if he really needs jail. I'm sure the loss of his child is punishment enough.
I can't imagine how terrible being in his situation would be, sounds worse than jail.
What if he has more kids? What if it was an illegal gun? This guy needs some jail time.
Whether he feels bad about it or not there should be a severe punishment for this level of recklessness, negligence and stupidity. Just add a gun to that level of child care and it will never end well.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Whether he feels bad about it or not there should be a severe punishment for this level of recklessness, negligence and stupidity.
Exactly. Using that judgment, every person who recklessly drives and kills someone should be let off the hook because "they feel horrible about it." The same analogy can be used for any other situation where someone feels remorse for their actions.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, the correct analogy would be every person who recklessly drives and kills their child should be let off the hook.
Killing a stranger would make me feel horrible; killing my daughter? I can't even begin to imagine.
Not saying that I agree with the original assertion, but your analogy is a little off.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd say that to the police too if I was so f'ing stupid as to leave a gun out for a 3 year old to find. What do you expect him to say, "I've left it on that table 100 times before and this never happened"?
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yea, I could understand forgetting about a loaded and primed muzzle loader, but a "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" Pistol!!! (big scare quotes)
Sorry, you obviously have no idea what that means. I don't know of any pistol made for home defense that is not semi-automatic.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is an issue of deterrence. The person involved in this case is already suffering enough , but the other people who dont think about gun safety need to know that carelessness leads to accidents leads to severe punishment.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
So you want to punish him for what some other completely unrelated people _might_ do?
Yeah....that sounds like a country I want to live in......
Re:Stupid comment (Score:4, Interesting)
apparently it wasnt in this case. This is something that could be taught in a gun safety and licensing class. Even when you have a reason to want to handle a weapon, when the potential threat is clear, dont just put the damn thing down and walk away.
What about the situations where a kid is shot but not killed , or the situation where the gun discharges and misses completely? To me, these situations are the same, with a different result. The actions should end with some punishment, not dependent upon the results of the actions.
If you leave a gun where a child can access it, and manages to discharge it, you dont become not guilty of something heinous because you got lucky.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think any amount of jail time is worse than the heart tearing pain caused by the loss of a child through your own fault? I'd say he wishes his son killed him instead right now. Jail time is going to do nothing.
The mistake your making is the assumption that a person who leaves a loaded firearm around a 3 year old child gives a crap.
He should receive a heavy custodial sentence not to make him feel bad, but as an attempt to get people to take a little more care over where they stick their firearms. This idiocy needs to be stamped on hard when ever it occurs even when the end result is the death of a small child.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
The stepchild is the one that aimed the gun at herself. Seriously, even if it were a toy gun... what kind of game was she playing?
I've seen kids point a toy gun at themselves, just because that was the easiest way to fire it, with their thumb, not their index finger.
Do you think a three year old knows what a gun can do? Even if she has seen it being fired? No way that they realise what will happen. Plus they don't have a clue what death means.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Make no mistake about it, prison in the USA sucks for the most part. It's not a rehabilitation program. For many folks, its a death sentence, whether that's what the courts ruled their punishment to be or not.
Cheers.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
First of all, it's not her father, it was her step-father. Secondly, something doesn't feel right about this. There just happened to be a fully loaded gun with a bullet in the chamber that's exactly like a rare wii controller. If the mother was just 'three feet' from her child when it happened, didn't she notice her climbing up on to the table and struggling with the heavy metal gun? He just happened to be investigating a prowler?
I'm not saying this wasn't an accident but perhaps the adults were more involved than they claim. If I was the police I would be pushing them a bit harder. Ultimately though, what difference does it make.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
He's an idiot, but I dunno if he really needs jail.
He may not need jail, but he *DOES* need to be disallowed from owning or handling firearm.
I'm sure the loss of his child is punishment enough.
No, it isn't. This guy has proven he does not deserve the right to own a firearm. For the safety of everyone around him, he should be convicted of criminal negligence causing death (or whatever the Tenn. equivalent is) so that he can be banned from owning or posessing a firearm.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can a 3 year old do it in the manner the mother described?
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
You can adjust the trigger resistance. It's generally inadvisable to lower the resistance past a certain point, because it makes it more likely it will go off from bumping against things, but I think it's likely enough that a guy who leaves a gun out with his toddler around is liable to have the trigger resistance questionably (if not illegally) low.
I am by no means an expert, but I live in a mother-in-law apt in the back yard of a gun lover.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
What I want to know is why the safety wasn't set on the gun.
I'm also vaguely curious as to what sort of shooting game the kid was playing that involved pointing the gun at himself....
Not unless the gun was modified a bit, or the three-year-old was a teeny little Hulk Hogan. Trigger pull on otc firearms is high enough that your average small child won't be firing it.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
Trigger pull on otc firearms is high enough that your average small child won't be firing it.
Really? Are you sure about that? I own several guns, and have shot several more. None, AFAIK, have been modified after purchase; the trigger pull is as it was set at the factory. Some of them have trigger pulls that require a decent pull; others have very, very light trigger pulls -- such that yes, a small child could shoot them. I have a 9mm that has a rather hefty trigger pull if it is not already cocked, but when shot single-action, has a relatively light trigger pull. I now own my dad's old .22 rifle that he used to let me shoot when I was about three (with his help, of course). The lightest of the bunch is my .300 Win-Mag rifle, which would probably fire if you sneezed near it.
And yes, for the record, I keep them locked so my daughter can't get to any of them.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Interesting)
What I want to know is why the safety wasn't set on the gun.
It looks like the firearm in question is a S&W .380 Sigma. It is "double-action" only: each pull of the trigger draws back the hammer to fire. There's no external safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson#Sigma_series [wikipedia.org]
I haven't been able to find anything that indicates the weight of the trigger for that gun. I'll venture that it's probably about 6-8 pounds, but some DA guns are as high as 13 pounds.
I'm also vaguely curious as to what sort of shooting game the kid was playing that involved pointing the gun at himself....
As you and several others have mentioned, it's unlikely the child would be able to pull the trigger with her trigger finger. And I suspect that's what happened: The child picked up the firearm by mistake and tried to pull the trigger. When it didn't work, she fumbled with it and pointed the firearm at herself as she pulled the trigger with her thumb.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the handgun was cocked, it wouldn't take much force at all.
Bottom line, idiots who leaved cocked, and loaded weapons laying around are the issue (it doesn't even matter if there are kids around or not). He fails the gun safety IQ test.
Careless? There are many things in life you should never be careless about - firearms is one of them.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sure I must be misunderstanding you. If the safety is engineered such that a 3-year-old child can discharge the weapon in any case, then it's not a safety.
A safety on fire arms are meant to keep the gun from discharging when dropped, de-cocking or while being unloaded. They are not meant to keep kids from discharging fire arms, that is what gun locks and safes are for.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
And when you are careless with your car and you accidentally kill someone you are rightfully arrested and convicted for vehicular manslaughter.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Interesting)
After reading the article, I have to respectfully disagree about this case. It does seem like this is criminal negligence on the part of the stepfather as well as the mother. They neglected to teach their child about the dangers of firearms, and by letting it play with a realistic toy made the situation worse by making it seem harmless. This is on top of the grossly negligent way the firearm was left loaded and unsupervised.
Still, I don't think further punishment is necessary because it won't have any preventative effect. The guy isn't likely to make that mistake again, and the chance that prosecuting him will scare others into being more careful is also just not there. But yes, investigate, find out what went wrong and how to avoid a repeat.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
He should be convicted of felony manslaughter.
Wave his jail time, but the felony means he can no longer own a fire arm.
Clearly he isn't responsible enough to own one.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
ANYONE that knows anything about firearms already knows that you store unloaded, with a trigger lock or in a locked box and with the safety on.
Only he uneducated idiots say they have to keep it loaded and ready for home defense. I can open my lockbox, load the clip and be ready to fire in 12 seconds from the time I am awakened in bed until I hit the floor. I buy the right tools for the use http://www.safetysafeguards.com/site/402168/product/GV1000CDLX [safetysafeguards.com]
Anyone that owns a handgun and does not keep it locked up is a disgrace to gun owners everywhere.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad it works well for you. In case you were unaware, the US is more than 10 cities whose names everyone knows. For those of us who live in the great expanse that is the midwest, the nearest police officer is often many, many miles away. Yes, I'll sit around waiting for that police officer to arrive while a burglar who decides he doesn't want a witness bludgeons me to death with the crowbar he used to break in, that sounds like a great idea!
No. My safety in my home is my responsibility, plain and simple. If I can facilitate it with my Tokarev or HK91, so be it.
Your choice of the phrase "wild west" is interesting; much of the midwest and west *is* still quite sparsely populated and effectively "wild."
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
What about an individual's right to defend him/herself? Call the cops. It works very well for us.
Which is a good and noble concept... except that the police are under no obligation to provide protection to any given individual. See Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981). Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers." The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen."
Or Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005). Jessica Gonzales had a restraining order against her estranged husband Simon limiting his access to their three children. He abducted them, and Gonzales repeatedly phoned the police for assistance. Officers visited the home. Believing Simon to be non-violent and, arguably, in compliance with the limited access granted by the restraining order, the police did nothing. She sued the Castle Rock police department and won a judgement of $30,000,000. By a vote of 7-to-2, the Supreme Court ruled that Gonzales has no right to sue her local police department for failing to protect her and her children from her estranged husband; the local officials had presented a history of court decisions that found the police to have no constitutional obligation to protect individuals from private individuals. In 1856, the U.S. Supreme Court (South v. Maryland) found that law enforcement officers had no affirmative duty to provide such protection. In 1982 (Bowers v. DeVito), the Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit held, "...there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen."
It works very well for you? Try suing the police for failing to protect you if you get robbed, assaulted, or burgled, and see just how much responsibility the courts say the police actually have to protect you.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Chances are very high it was loaded, round in chamber, and with the hammer cocked (and the safety off). The girl was three years old. Are you saying that she had the knowledge (and strength) to make that pistol ready to fire if it wasn't already like that?
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm quite aware of that, but the .380 caliber Smith & Wesson that (according to TFA) the child shot herself with certainly does.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
I disagree. A little switch doesn't do anything a little education doesn't do better.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
You just can't stop stupid with a switch. Like that one gun safety instructor who thought his gun was unloaded and thought he'd make a point by pulling the trigger with it to his head. It was loaded, and he's dead. You follow all of the rules, all of the time, or someday something will go wrong, and you'll be sorry.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
"It was proabably the middle of the night, everyone was sleeping. He wasn't thinking, or was thinking that he had put it away far enough, or that he'd wake up before his kid."
And left a loaded, ready-to-shoot firearm in the middle of the room like you would a discarded plate or an old newspaper. There's no excuse. And this is exactly the problem with gun-owning countries - it's the middle of the night, everybody's sleeping, he hears a sound, panics, he's ***not thinking*** straight, and ends up aiming at things with a gun... a banging door, a stray animal, a kid trying to get his ball back when his parents won't know (weird, yeah, that's a weird situation, but it happens), a partygoer who's accidentally stumbled into the wrong back yard, a neighbour who's jumped over the fence to see what the strange sound was in his friend's back garden...
It's a gun. It's used to kill things, and only to kill things. Don't ready it unnecessarily, don't leave it lying about, don't carry it unnecessarily, don't use it when you're not confident of your abilities and judgement, and keep it THE HELL out of the way of children, or even your whole family. For some reason people seem to think less of that than if he'd left an upturned lawnmower, with the safety features dismantled, turned on and plugged in, in the same room. To be honest, I'd have had a LOT more sympathy for the guy in question if the child had done something with a dismantled lawnmower rather than a gun... at least he *could* have a nearly-plausible reason for having the thing sitting in his house in that kind of state.
Even if we take the "home defence" argument - the pillock left the gun downstairs, with ammunition in it after his initial fears were calmed. If there *had* been someone in the house that he didn't see, he's just handed them a free deadly weapon with which to kill him.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, the father left the gun, but the mother was in the room with the child and the gun at the time of the accident, sitting at her computer. There's plenty of negligence to go around here.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Funny)
There's a loaded Glock 17 and EAA Witness in .40 on my coffee room table right now. One or both of them is always near me or on my hip.
Because you never know when it's needed. The only time it's "unnecessary" to have some form of self defense handy is when you're already dead.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
i'm just wondering which war-torn 3rd world country you live in to need 24h firearm-level self defense...
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Funny)
America.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
i'm just wondering which war-torn 3rd world country you live in to need 24h firearm-level self defense...
I have a similar setup...and I live in war-torn Atlanta, GA.
Your guns are worthless... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're gonna die from a hearth attack or a stroke. Possibly cancer.
Stress does that to ya.
Re:Your guns are worthless... (Score:4, Funny)
You're gonna die from a hearth attack or a stroke. Possibly cancer.
Stress does that to ya.
You're right. If someone attacked me with a hearth, any guns I might have would be useless.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because you never know when it's needed. The only time it's "unnecessary" to have some form of self defense handy is when you're already dead.
Sir —
I've been to many dangerous places around the world, and on numerous occasions I have been in situations where my life has been threatened. However not once have I been in a situation that would have been improved by my possession of a loaded handgun. Similarly, I've trained people in the special forces in hand-to-hand combat, but not once have I ever felt a need to resort to such skills in a threatening situation. That being said, I believe it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it – but more often the capacity for force is merely a facade that lulls people into a false sense of security, depriving the well-armed person of a defence that would actually save them: wits. Wits are an unparalleled form of self defence, and they compare decidedly well to force in their ability to protect one in the most dangerous and unpredictable of situations and in the relative absence of collateral damage.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
You are stupid. and need to not be allowed to have a gun.
unless you live in cracktown and have a home full of crack AND a sign outside advertising the crack is inside you will NOT get a suprise stampede that you need to gun down instantly. You will have a LOT of warning before you need to pull a trigger to defend yourself. Even in a situation where you have them at your door trying to kick it in you have time to grab the clip, slap it in and cock the gun and have time to take a deep breath and get in a kneeling position to fire more accurately.
only complete idiots think they must be loaded, and ready to protect themselves. Even the military in a war zone will kick your ass if you go walking around with a gun ready to fire and you are not in an active mission where you are kicking down a door. at minimum you need the safety on even in a HOT zone on guard.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who's scared? I simply admit that shit happens, and am prepared to deal with shit happening to me.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Insightful)
Leaving? I'm sitting next to my coffee table. They're under my complete control.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
1. The parents purposefully sought out a rare game controller that looked like a real gun FOR THEIR THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER
2. Then the father LEFT A REAL LOADED GUN that looked eerily similar to the kid's game controller (by fucking design, I might add) ON THE COFFEE TABLE which is probably EXACTLY WHERE THE FUCKING THREE YEAR OLD KID TYPICALLY LEFT HER GAME CONTROLLER.
3. Then they are shocked and surprised she picked it up and fired it.
I generally would not advocate taking children from their parents but somebody might want to think long and hard about the wisdom of leaving the 1yr old in the care of parents so f**ed up it's not even funny.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
and, ideally, a ban on firearms in domestic environments.
I'm not giving up my rights because certain assholes are too irresponsible to educate themselves and their families on proper gun safety.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please detail all the circumstances when you have needed to defend yourself from your government.
We're waiting.
You are aware of how the USA came into existence, right?
What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the fact that there are no charges being pressed enrages me. The article says:
Law Enforcement: If You're a Gun Owner, You Have to Be Responsible
Or what? Someone will shake their finger at you?
Cheyenne Alexis McKeehan was a victim of either neglect, ignorance or willful intent of her stepfather. Which one, no one can ever be sure of. Regardless of the circumstances he improperly stored a loaded handgun in his home in reach of a three year old.
Saying "terrible lapse of judgment" and "be responsible next time" isn't enough for me. This man should be charged with child endangerment so that people take their Second Amendment Rights seriously and responsibly should they choose to exercise them.
Were I a prosecutor, I would push for the jury to see that going through the trouble to find a toy (not regularly distributed commercially here) for your child identical to the loaded handgun that you "happened" to leave on the table one evening is more than suspicious.
If you have children, invest in a home security system before a handgun, folks.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the fact that there are no charges being pressed enrages me.
Are you a parent? There's absolutely NOTHING they could do to the guy that would be worse than losing a child. I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up comitting suicide intentionally, with the same gun. I can't imagine how much this guy's hurting right now.
I'd also betting his marriage is over. Yes, charges of child endangerment could be filed, but no punishment is going to change anything; no punishment that state can inflict will come close to what he's done to himself.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Interesting)
But the fact that there are no charges being pressed enrages me.
Are you a parent? There's absolutely NOTHING they could do to the guy that would be worse than losing a child. I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up comitting suicide intentionally, with the same gun. I can't imagine how much this guy's hurting right now.
I'd also betting his marriage is over. Yes, charges of child endangerment could be filed, but no punishment is going to change anything; no punishment that state can inflict will come close to what he's done to himself.
I am a parent, and my eyes tear up thinking about a child dying, mine or one I've never met - they are all tragedies. However, in this case the *stepfather* left a gun around that killed a child that wasn't his. He may or may not be suffering, and it should be investigated.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not what law is for.
The parents have been punished enough by the natural consequences of their own actions. What purpose could it possibly have to add an artificial punishment on top of that?
Re:Here's a list (Score:4, Insightful)
So, a man who does not intentionally do anything wrong--no malice aforethought--deserves to be stripped of effective self-defense tools for the rest of his life? Because of a lapse of judgment that will already be haunting him for the rest of his life?
His right to self defense does not override our right to be safe from negligent idiots. He's already shown himself to be too irresponsible to handle a gun. This is one area where it's not ok to learn from your mistakes. You must think ahead about the consequences of your actions. He was unable to do that, and it cost a life. No second chances.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:4, Interesting)
Were I a prosecutor, I would push for the jury to see that going through the trouble to find a toy (not regularly distributed commercially here) for your child identical to the loaded handgun that you "happened" to leave on the table one evening is more than suspicious.
Yeah. A stepfather wanting to get rid of his/her stepson or stepdaughter isn't exactly unheard of.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
Law Enforcement: If You're a Gun Owner, You Have to Be Responsible
Or what? Someone will shake their finger at you?
Or your daughter might accidentally shoot herself. If punishment is intended to deter or rehabilitate you, what more do you think they really need? Any punishment now would just be for the sake of making these people pay.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm just glad it was their child. The real tragedy is when someone leaves out a gun, and their child shoots someone else's child.
That's pretty fucked up, it's still an innocent child with the whole world ahead of her. Don't devalue a life because of poor decision on the parent's part.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder... (Score:5, Funny)
Did a dog pop up from behind the bushes and chuckle afterwards?
Re:I wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope you don't have any kids. I'll bet they turn out to be little crybaby porkers, allergic to everything because they were kept inside like prize housepets, the kind of rotten shits who throw piercing tantrums in public and have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the car just because you didn't buy'em their fifth candy bar of the day.
Why is the wii controller even mentioned? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is the Wii controller even mentioned in this freakin' story? The kid shot themselves with a loaded gun left laying around by the parent. This has nothing to do with the Wii, and everything to do with some dumbfuck leaving a loaded gun laying around with a three year old in the house. I don't care what you child does for fun, leaving a loaded gun all willy-nilly where the child can reach it is the height of responsibility.
We don't need gun control, we need idiot control.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Irrelevant (although having guns in the house AND having a controller shell that looks like that is a bad idea). The point here is a moron left a loaded firearm where a kid could reach it. The fact that the kid managed to shoot herself implies that it was left with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked as well...I doubt a three-year-old could do anything with a gun beyond pulling the trigger.
That makes this go from tragic and avoidable to just plain despicable.
Re:Why is the wii controller even mentioned? (Score:4, Insightful)
The idea that she was picking it up so she could play a game on the Wii seems a stretch at best, even if it looked similar to the controller. Hell, even a three year old would be able to tell something wasn't right just by the difference in weight between a plastic game controller and a real gun. The fact that she apparently pointed the gun at her own chest and pulled the trigger suggests she just found a new toy and was screwing around with it...
Or: Gun was on coffee table (where most wii controllers are kept), she walks up to it in such a way that it's pointed at her, she grabs with her thumb on the trigger (thus able to use a much stronger pull on the trigger), and tragedy results. In this scenario, she never had to lift the gun, just depress the trigger. BTW, when a child of 3 realizes something is different, it means "fun fun fun", not "something's not right, perhaps I should exercise caution" They only exhibit caution for instinctual fears.
Shot herself, you mean (Score:5, Informative)
Suicide, my ass! (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF is wrong with you submitter? This is negligent homicide by the family. They left a loaded, cocked, pistol on a table where a three year old can get it. A three year old does not have a concept of life and death, and does not commit suicide. By throwing around the S-word you're taking the blame off the people it truly belongs to: the parents. People who cannot treat firearms with the respect they deserve should not have them.
Already the news is making an issue out of the fact that it's a Wii-related death. It's not. It's a loaded gun left out in the open. It doesn't matter if the Wii gun "looked" real, it wasn't. You can have a real, pink, Hello Kitty revolver there. It doesn't matter. A loaded and cocked gun was left where a curious child can get it.
Re:Suicide, my ass! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Suicide, my ass! (Score:5, Insightful)
All of them incriminate the parents equally. There are a few common sense rules of gun safety which get violated far too often. Obeying them religiously is a good idea. For anyone unfamiliar, here are the utter basics:
I don't know how a 3-year-old girl was able to shoot herself. But there are many, many types of pistols on the market, some of which are not much heavier than a Wii controller even when they're loaded, particularly those chambered for .22 Long Rifle cartridges. The real point is that it doesn't matter what kind of gun it was or how a 3-year-old was able to mistake it for a Wii controller (which itself is mostly speculation since, had there been any witnesses to the kid's supposed mistaken thought process, you'd think they would have stopped her from playing with a loaded gun at some point before she shot herself). What does matter is that a child is dead because someone didn't follow the most basic rules of gun safety.
How fucking stupid... (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have to be to leave your gun out with people in your home, let alone a child? Dad wasn't allowed to do anything upon entering our home after work, not even take off his shoes or coat, until he walked straight to the safe and put his gun away. If he ever forgot, Mom would have kicked his ass out of the house faster than you can say First Post!
Typical /. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's good to see that the /. editorial bias is still very much well and truly alive. What's the point of this story (especially posted under games?) if it isn't to exploit one family's tragedy to promote the political ideology of the /. gatekeepers? I guess common decency and good taste are not among their core competencies.
Poor choice of everything. (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, this wasn't an "accidental suicide", it was an accidental death.
Second of all, putting "wii" in the title is highly misleading and is typical of today's media which is more interested in tabloid journalism, trying to grab everyones attention by assuming all your readers are more responsitive to these kind of headlines.
My respect for Slashdot just went down a few.
How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:4, Interesting)
Really? A toddler pulling the trigger of a .380? A toddler?
I smell bullshit.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? A toddler pulling the trigger of a .380? A toddler?
I smell bullshit.
Good point!
AFAIK, S&W only makes one .380, the Sigma 380 [wikipedia.org]. This gun has no manual safety, instead it's a double action-only pistol with a long, heavy trigger pull. An eight to ten pound trigger pull. It's hard to believe that a toddler could have managed that.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:5, Informative)
It is pretty suspicious to me though that the article says the mother was just 3 feet away. How can one be 3 feet away from both a 3 year old and a loaded pistol and not realize it? And even worse, what in the hell was the stepfather thinking placing a loaded weapon on a table with children in the house? My gun is never out of my control unless it's locked up in it's safe. As with many other posters, this was gross negligence on their part. I'm not sure I agree with a call for criminal charges though as he's got to live with it for the rest of his life knowing his negligence killed that little girl.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:4, Informative)
Dude. A .380 is a light pistol. I doubt a toddler could chamber a round, but picking one up and pulling the trigger are well within their capabilities.
"Nintendo" and "Wii" in all the headlines.... (Score:5, Interesting)
... But you have to read the article to see "Smith and Wesson". Unreal.
I can see where the conversation gets muddy when someone commits a violent act after playing violent video games. Not saying anything about that beyond that its at least an interesting topic. But when a TODDLER finds a LOADED GUN ON A COFFEE TABLE and SHOOTS HERSELF WITH IT are we really going to try to blame it on VIDEO GAMES?!?!?!
Suspicious Death (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm with the crew that says this doesn't add up.
1) Stepfather goes out of his way to buy obscure Wii controller that looks like the handgun he owns
2) Stepfather leaves loaded gun on coffee table in the living room, presumably where the Wii controllers sit. (Not in the bedroom, not on a shelf, etc. Even if he's lazy, you would probably leave a loaded gun somewhere other than your living room.)
3) Stepfather leaves the gun on the coffee table with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. (This is important because a 3 year old probably wouldn't have the strength to overcome the hammer action and pull the trigger otherwise.)
Too many "coincidences" here. That's all I'm saying.
As a responsible gun owner... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's get this out of our systems: The parents were horribly irresponsible and deserve to be charged with some kind of crime. In most states (including mine) it is a felony to leave a weapon where a minor can gain access to it.
That being said, as a responsible gun owner, I don't like my son to have guns as toys. Toy guns are safe. Toy guns never hurt anybody. Toy guns teach every bad habit that gun safety teaches you not to do. Kids literally think guns are toys and can be handled cavalierly.
From the time he could talk I have drilled my son that when he sees a gun, what does he do? "Run away and tell a grown up." What if your friend wants to pick it up? "Run away and tell a grown up." What if your friend has it first and wants to show you? "Run away and tell a grown up."
Just read the story (Score:5, Informative)
The dad was an idiot, though. I don't see him recovering. As for it being accidental? I couldn't speculate, but to all of the people saying that a kid couldn't pull the trigger... Kids have two hands, remember?
Some people watch too much TV (Score:4, Insightful)
This man makes a horrible mistake that will likely haunt him and his family forever, and all some of the people here can say is "I'm upset that he hasn't been charged," or "he should be locked up."
Because that's the solution here...For the state to lock the guy up. Yeah, because incarceration has worked so well to fix all of the problems in our utopia called America.
As if jail time going to bring the girl back, or undo what happened.
It was a horrible accident, and yeah, as a gun owner the man should have known better - but accidents happen. People forget to follow proper procedure on occasion, and on this occasion that error led to this accident.
Trust me, if there was anything fishy about this situation or about this guy they would have him locked up.
The parents should be left alone. The LAST thing they need is for the state lock them up after something like this happens - there is no worse punishment than what they are already going through.
Then I am sure we'll have the usual crowd ready to throw all of our rights under the bus with the tired, old, ridiculous "let's ban guns" argument - you know, because criminals that are ready to kill or rob or break every law inm the book will definitely decide to obey a new gun law because.......because why?
The only thing that I would hope for out of all of this is that it serves as a sobering reminder how very important safety and following procedure is when you are dealing with any tool that has the capacity to kill or maim (firearms, vehicles, power tools, electricity, etc)...
In addition to firearms safety, this is as much about home safety and "childproofing" as it is anything else.
Re:Media Hysteria (Score:4, Insightful)
However, I do believe the model in question is double-action only, which means requiring a very long trigger pull that ought to be beyond the finger strength limits of a 3-year-old girl, so who knows just how "accidental" this really is.
Re:Gun was owned by STEPfather, not father. (Score:5, Insightful)
Divorced guys know ALL about this scenario. The ex's new boyfriend doesn't have the fact that they are his kids programmed into him 24/7
In my experience, ex's new boyfriend has the fact that they are *Not* his kids programmed into him 24/7, by either the kids (tween-teen), or by the mother (if they're single-digit age).