Bethesda Unveils New Co-op Dungeon Crawler 218
Bethesda Softworks took advantage of the recent Game Developers Conference to take the wraps off a new game called Hunted: The Demon's Forge that they're partnering with development studio inXile to create. It's planned for the PC, Xbox 360, and PS3, though no release window has been set. It's a third-person action game with a swords & sorcery setting, and it features two heroes as they fight their way through monster-filled dungeons. The game is designed such that two users can play together online (no split-screen), each controlling one of the heroes. ShackNews summed it up thus: "From what I saw, Hunted rolled up ideas from a number of different games to create its modern reinterpretation of the dungeon crawl. There was the raw action appeal of wading through waves of goblins, spiders, and related denizens. The skill system and weapon upgrades bring in the character development side from a role playing game. And the co-op design with its warrior and archer dynamic introduces the reward of playing together like an MMO."
Can't quite pinpoint... (Score:4, Insightful)
I read some of the previews of this game and I am cautiously optimistic but a couple of worries:
1. "the raw action appeal of wading through waves of goblins, spiders, and related denizens" sounds an awful lot like Dynasty Warriors/Musou series and while I understand some people are into that, and that's totally fine, I find the games terribly boring. I could be reading too much into the phrasing here, but it's hard to pinpoint what this game is trying to do exactly.
2. To me, the current gold standard for a dungeon crawl is Demon's Souls. How are they going to top DS's brutality and innovate features?
Re:Can't quite pinpoint... (Score:5, Funny)
How are they going to top DS's brutality
Easy!
bloodSpurtAmount *= 10;
and innovate features?
Uh...
bloodSpurtAmount *= 20;
Re:Can't quite pinpoint... (Score:4, Funny)
Too bad the German (and IIRC Australian) version will be locked at
bloodSpurtAmount*=0;
So I guess no innovation for the nannystates.
Are you kidding? (Score:4, Insightful)
2. To me, the current gold standard for a dungeon crawl is Demon's Souls.
I'd say that the current gold standard for a dungeon crawl is Diablo II. Nothing else released in the past 10 years has even come close.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I've been playing Sacred, Sacred Underworld and Sacred II recently with a friend as online coop. Definitely worth playing, some things have better depth than Diablo II, other things worse. Diablo II runes were better.
They are massively big and long games, the click and bash gets old after a while though and doesnt help with RSI. That's no different to Diablo II though.
Re: (Score:2)
I played all Diablo and Sacred episodes. The one thing that Diablo II had and Sacred lacked was online games with the character stored on the server and gameplay running on the server. People figured out how to predict gambled items and such, but apart from that, provided that you played on closed battle.net, Diablo II was cheat-free back in the day. Sacred on the other hand was so buggy that Sacred Plus was released for free, and there were all kinds of cheats based on manipulating the game state in memory
Re: (Score:2)
Torchlight is a decent game, but I think TitanQuest gave Diablo II a far better run for it's money.
Re: (Score:2)
It's a matter of how you approach the game. If you want fast action, then Diablo II is better than your typical roguelike. If you like to be surprised by things you didn't expect well beyond the first two weeks of playing a game, then a roguelike may be better. But of course you do have to accept the necessity to buy scrolls of Disguise Self As Artichoke. And the often ridiculous (by today's standards) graphics, if there are graphics at all.
I don't even think these are mutually exclusive, I enjoy both types
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
2. To me, the current gold standard for a dungeon crawl is Demon's Souls. How are they going to top DS's brutality and innovate features?
To each his own. I actually bought two copies of Demon's Souls because I imported the wrong language at first... and I figured it would be more fun if I could understand what was going on... I didn't. Replaying the same level over and over again to complete it isn't what I'd label fun. Also, logging in to play with a friend and having some ass hole join your game to kill you because he needs the black "karma" isn't fun.
Re: (Score:2)
To each his own. I actually bought two copies of Demon's Souls because I imported the wrong language at first... and I figured it would be more fun if I could understand what was going on...
Homer: Hey, how come you never play your guitar any more?
Bart: I'll tell ya the truth, Dad. I wasn't good at it right away, so I quit. I hope you're not mad.
Homer: [sweetly] Son, come here! Heh heh heh... [Bart sits on Homer's knee] Of course I'm not mad. If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing! You just stick that guitar in the closet next to your short-wave radio, your karate outfit and your unicycle, and we'll go insid
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm guessing it'll be a lot like Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance (and the sequel.) Just based on the blurbs I've read.
Re: (Score:2)
How are they going to top DS's brutality and innovate features?
Maybe by making it less difficult than smashing down a brick wall with your forehead? That way, us filthy casuals with lives that keep us from enjoying the subtle nuances of replaying game sections ad nauseam can enjoy it
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Easy. Like other recent Bethesda RPG projects, there will probably be a mod kit. Want the game to behave more like Demon's Souls and less like a traditional modern western RPG? You can make a mod for that.
Extensibility very nearly always beats what you can come up with in-house.
Bad idea for the future (Score:2)
The game is designed such that two users can play together online (no split-screen), each controlling one of the heroes.
Wonderful! I like nothing better than to play RPGs that are going to stop working in 5 years!
The problem with all these online console games is servers are going to be turned off far sooner than with PC equivalents (chances are, servers for WoW are going to be up in 2020 and beyond) making the game almost unplayable. Even with PC games, you can host your own server, you can't do that really with console games.
I don't mind paying a -bit- of money for games that are going to go away in 5 years, for
Re: (Score:2)
Did you miss the part where it said PC?
How many games (Score:2)
Re:How many games (Score:4, Informative)
Diablo II, Morrowind, Final Fantasy VI, Half Life 2... I could keep going, but I think you get the idea.
Maybe I'm just sentimental, but I like to break out my old favorites every few years.
Re:How many games (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
CIV is only 4.5 years old though. It would be on my list as well, but Civ 5 is scheduled to come out right around CIV's 5th birthday, and knowing me I will probably switch to it then, as I have with every prior Civ title... :)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Loki Linux port of Heroes of Might and Magic III to pick my most recent indulgence. Which is usually followed by playing Loki port of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, the most appropriately acronymed video game name ever. :)
Sure sentimentality is a big part of it, but the sign of a great game is the ability to pull it out after many years, already knowing everything in it, and having a fun time. Nostalgia works best when not confronted with the reality that your hazy, rozy memory thinks of. The best examp
Re: (Score:2)
Only the good ones. I'm playing through Ocarina of Time right now. Still brilliant.
So... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So... (Score:4, Insightful)
Like Gauntlet, only with RPG stats and more power-ups?
Holy shit, yes!
I've been trying to figure out what it was that Diablo brought to the table as far as genre is concerned over roguelikes. What else was it drawing influence from?
Then you come along and say what should have been obvious. Diablo = Rogue + Gauntlet. Randomly generated levels in an RPG based around leveling up and equipping your character, combined with a real-time button masher throwing yourself against an endless horde of largely identical enemies. And thus was the "Diablo clone" genre born.
Why can't I play with my buddy on the couch (Score:5, Insightful)
The game is designed such that two users can play together online (no split-screen)
Well why the fuck not? Online is great and all but I become increasingly annoyed by the fact that I can play with my buddy who is 300+ miles away but the instant he comes over to visit we can't play without doing some wacky setup with extra TV's and consoles. Seriously is it that hard? I've dealt with splitscreen multiplayer since the NES so why is it so hard to find now?
Re:Why can't I play with my buddy on the couch (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Huh? Why'd I have to buy one at all? Got no DVD burner?
Oh! You mean ... erh, ok, never mind, I wasn't here...
Re: (Score:2)
BAM. Two game sales, and a simple and reasonable method to include split screen.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You're making assumptions.
You can play Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance with two players without split-screen. It just moves the camera to keep both of them in view.
Nowhere does it say, "there's no split screen, SO THEREFORE YOU NEED TO SHELL-OUT FOR A SECOND CONSOLE YOU SUCKER!! SUCKER!!!!!" which seems to be what you're reading there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously is it that hard? I've dealt with splitscreen multiplayer since the NES so why is it so hard to find now?
Could be because split screen uses more resources like they state in the article or because split screen needs more development time, etc.
Explain how your point is valid for the PS3 and 360 but didn't apply to the NES and other consoles.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Rendering split screen takes up a huge amount of resources. Think about it.
That also applies to older consoles, and newer consoles have faster hardware to handle the hit if they so chose. I have thought about it.
You're rendering everything twice and then applying lighting shader models to both.
Yes, and since you are rendering to a smaller area with less pixels, you can get away with a smaller polygon count and other shortcuts. It won't be twice as much work.
If you're trying to push the graphics on a first gen game then you're not going to be able to when you're doing split screen.
True. Also applies to older consoles, but newer games tend to try to tax the hardware more (whether it's an attempt to out-bling the competition or lazy optimising or abstraction overhead) so I'll give you th
Re: (Score:2)
Diablo Clone (Score:3, Interesting)
The skill system and weapon upgrades bring in the character development side from a role playing game. And the co-op design with its warrior and archer dynamic introduces the reward of playing together like an MMO.
It is another Diablo clone. Oh, and having two people play together makes it like a massively multiplayer online game? Right.
I don't see a single thing that wasn't in Diablo over a decade ago, let alone something innovative.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, and having two people play together makes it like a massively multiplayer online game? Right.
No. They said that you get the reward of being able to play together with a friend like you would in an MMO. Not that this constitutes the game BEING an MMO.
Re:Diablo Clone (Score:5, Informative)
"Diablo clone"? The proper term is "roguelike".
Now get off my lawn!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not saying I wouldn't play this because he got the terminology wrong, I'm just saying he got the terminology wrong.
Anyway, Diablo was a roguelike, so if it's "close to Diablo", then pretty much by definition it's close to Rogue. The idea of calling things "clone of [well known game]" is distasteful to me though, I think it discredi
Re: (Score:2)
Shouldn't you be getting off the lawns of the D&D crowd? or the crowd of lords and barons that played wargames with their miniatures, and their wooden sticks for moving multiples at once? Or the generals who did it with soldiers or slaves? For everything there's always a precursor. The word Diablo here is used as a reference point, not the PERFECT reference point to you.
Re: (Score:2)
I believe that you are taking the whole "get of my lawn" think a bit too seriously. In case you are new here, it is supposed to be a humours jab, indicating both at the same time that someone is lacking the perspective or experience you have, and acknowledging that you are being an old fart (of the type that often complains about kids on their lawn) and probably unreasonable. The correct response, if you wanted to correct my perspective, would be to mention D&D, or whatever, and explain that it was I
Re: (Score:2)
I believe that you are taking the whole "get of my lawn" think a bit too seriously.
They took issue with you claiming "Diablo clone" is wrong and "Roguelike" is correct, not with an attempt to continue what many consider to be a lame meme involving turf.
In case you are new here
Says someone with a higher UID to someone with a lower UID (irony of myself doing the same is noted).
You are taking what I intended to be a comical jab, and use it as the basis for a serious, and non-trivial discussion.
Perhaps you could just voluntarily get off their lawn? ;)
Re: (Score:2)
Rarely have I seen that indicate anything reliably. ;)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Diablo clone"? The proper term is "roguelike".
Well to be serious for a moment, as a lover of both Nethack and Diablo II, I'd say it's worth distinguishing between these two genres. The things that are commonly called "roguelikes" are clearly aping rogue, and the Diablo Clones with their emphasis on real-time combat are clearly aping Diablo, by intent if nothing else. Diablo clearly owes a huge debt to Rogue-likes, but I wouldn't say it is one simply because it shakes up some of the fundamental gameplay p
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody. Personally I think there's a place for a more forgiving roguelike a la the chunsoft games, but nethack is the most played roguelike.
Re:Diablo Clone (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Given the Elder Scrolls 3&4 and Fallout 3 experience... virtually 0.
Of course, also judging by those experiences, and unless they uncharacteristically gimp modding, I'd guess that the probability of somebody doing it is hovering at 3... and not percent, I'm talking statistics: I predict that not only is the likelihood of that to be certain, but I further predict that it will be done at least 3 times over.
Last I checked there were still psychotic diehards out there modding and patching Morrowind.
Re: (Score:2)
The advantage of Diablo was how long Blizz supported it with patches. What are the odds Bethesda will fix any [...] issues [...] after release?
None. Fixed that for you too.
Re: (Score:2)
The advantage of Diablo was how long Blizz supported it with patches. What are the odds Bethesda will fix any [...] issues [...] before or after release?
None. Fixed that for you too.
And I fixed it again.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What I want to know is why not more than 2 characters. Even Champions of Norrath on the PS2 supported 4 in both local same screen and online.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey that sweater you're wearing is red like my uncle's car. Your wearing my uncle's car. Spot the difference?
Re: (Score:2)
Apart from the blatant spelling/grammar mistake, obviously.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey that sweater you're wearing is red like my uncle's car. Your wearing my uncle's car. Spot the difference?
Hey that sweater you're wearing is red like my uncle's sweater.
Hey that sweater you're wearing is red like my uncle's ugly sweater.
Apologies for diverting from the car analogy (hey, at least it made an appearance in this thread), but can you spot the difference now? They stated the feature was co-op (which by definition is already multiplayer) then went on to say it has aspects like a massive multiplayer (which adds absolutely nothing but a massive modifier, or in my example ugly).
Re: (Score:2)
No Split Screen? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dear Game Developers: Please bring back split-screen play as a standard. While Borderlands is great, we won't be playing it forever.
-----
My wife and I play on the couch; video games, too.
Re: (Score:2)
Baldur's gate was same screen, wasn't it? The only thing split was the inventory if I remember right.
I do agree though, I want more local coop games. I'd kill to get a sequel to Champions of Norrath as well.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess I should have specified... a proper PS3 sequel. I have a 20G, so I can play RTA again, but even with full BC included I just can't replay old games.
Re: (Score:2)
Why don't more people play it online! All those frakkin PS2 Snoblind Engine Diablo clones, and no one plays them online. Though part of that might be the fact that online play doesn't work if you play them on a PS3, the game doesn't recognize the virtualized Network Adapter that the PS3 presents to them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I count myself one of the lucky geeks with a wife who loves video games and one of our favorite types has been the split-screen dungeon crawl like Baldur's Gate.
Uh, assuming you're actually talking about Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, then it's not split-screen.
(Baldur's Gate is a 1-person-per-computer game, and a full-on RPG, not just a dungeon crawl.)
We won't be buying another TV and another PS3 to play games on, though, so I guess this is a game we won't be buying.
Dear Game Developers: Please bring back s
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know, there are many multiplayer games that work without split screen. If a Mario title can do it then a dungeon crawler should be able to do it too.
Abbreviations... (Score:5, Funny)
multiplayer MUD
Hopefully I can use my NIC Card to play some Local LAN network games as well!
Re:Abbreviations... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess I'll have to get some cash from the ATM machine to pay for all this - especially if there's DLC content. I hope I can remember my PIN number.
While I'm out I should probably pick up some new DVI interface cables and RAM memory.
Re:Abbreviations... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I've lost the will to live after reading these two posts. Thanks, guys. :(
So i guess you're SOL.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess I'll have to get some cash from the ATM machine to pay for all this - especially if there's DLC content. I hope I can remember my PIN number.
While I'm out I should probably pick up some new DVI interface cables and RAM memory.
::head explodes::
I used to have a real problem when people would do this, but I've learned to not let small things like this get to me. It used to be so bad that I would yell at the screen when my computer would boot into Windows 2000, as it says at the bottom "Built on NT technology"... NT stands for New Technology, Built on New Technology technology indeed!
Re: (Score:2)
I hate to break it to you Mr. Grammar Nazi, but you actually failed. Hardcore.
NIC is Network Interface Controller.
Nice try though.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
From WikiPedia [wikipedia.org]:
Starting in April 2007, the company began using its original name, Kentucky Fried Chicken, for its signage, packaging and advertisements in the United States as part of a new corporate re-branding program
Bethesda Games (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Poor combat is only one of many problems with Bethesda's recent schlock. I found a site [google.com] the other day that explores the deepest problems with Oblivion (as well as Fallout 3, seeing how that's basically just a mod for Oblivion).
I'm not much of an RPG fan. I mainly like twitch combat games; shooters. The only RPGs I've enjoyed playing are Fallout 1 and 2. However, these two games are easily in my top 5 favorite games of all time. I've played them each at least 15 times, way more than any shooter.
When I g
Re: (Score:2)
Who says we don't? And what is a "proper RPG" anyway. We don't really know, because nobody ports the games you might consider "proper RPG's" for us nowadays. And even if they do, they're Japan only like that PSone port of Ultima Underworld.
There are a few console games here and there that feel a bit more PC RPG inspired.
Screw you, Bethesda (Score:2, Interesting)
Will the PC interface be a XBOX port? (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
What was the last game you played that was ported from consoles and not come across like one? Half baked options interfaces that beg for point-and-click but can only be accessed with the keyboard (or, more moronically, by moving the mouse around to move around the menu, then hold veeeeeeery still when clickin... oh shoot, guess you moved the mouse a little and now instead of "save" you had "quit"...) and jerky, unimaginative and very unintuitive mouse controls (that would work perfectly if you had two stick
Re: (Score:2)
You have just described Games for Windows down to a T.
If they just called it XboxPC or something you would have expected half-baked ports and rough edges. 'Games for Windows' is just insulting. I've played games that were made for Windows thank you Microsoft, and these don't count.
more co-op (Score:2)
Finally!
Cooperative multiplayer has been ignored for too long by the games industry. There's one reason I played Borderlands at all, and that's cooperative multiplayer done well. I'm so glad Bethesda is finally going that direction. I've always wanted cooperative Oblivion. Well, one can hope... maybe Eldar Scrolls V... please?
Re: (Score:2)
Who is this Eldar fellow and why is he scrolling V?
Original Demon's Forge (Score:2)
...was a game almost impossible to complete without a hint book.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/demons-forge [mobygames.com]
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I checked WoW lately at a friend's who still plays. With that groupfinder option, it doesn't really feel "massive" now anymore either, you only get to see 4 other toons whenever you go crawl down a dungeon. So I guess Bethesda is dead on.
Re: (Score:2)
So instead of a 5 man party I can have a 25 man party. Feels almost like a FPS game in 32vs32 mode. Just without the vs32 part.
And, be honest, what's trade/chat other than a glorified lobby? Unmoderated lobby to boot.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason they found it necessary is that they've designed WoW more and more around mind-numbing repetitive grinding of intolerably easy dungeons. They need to stop pushing the "kill this same guy once a day for the next week and we'l
Re: (Score:2)
Given how "well" Borderland's multiplayer worked for PCs (at least if you weren't willing to let your pants down completely in front of the internet), it could well be with more multiplayer...
Re: (Score:2)
Except people figured out fairly quickly how to switch it to 3rd person display, and it has too many RPG elements to be called a pure shooter...
Re: (Score:2)
split-screen is horrible stupid lame crap.
How about: if you can't design your game to work on one screen, don't bother releasing co-op mode.
Yes, split-screen is a quick hacky work-around for FPS, but for a 3rd-person game, just move the camera around or have the player who has dropped their controller to go get more cheetos drop off the screen until they come back.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
For a two player game, two player split screen sounds appropriate.
I'd love to play this game with my boyfriend, but alas, we have only one TV, one xbox, and - if we purchase it - only one disc.
So, unless the single player is singularly compelling, I can write this game off my list already.
Re: (Score:2)
It had great music, good graphics, acceptable gam