Microsoft Docs Indicate Future Xbox 360 Support For USB Storage 130
Internal Microsoft documents obtained by Joystiq indicate that its Xbox 360 console will gain support for USB storage devices some time this Spring.
"According to the document, the USB mass storage device must be at least 1GB and the system will do a compatibility check. 'The system partition occupies 512 MB of space, and by default the consumer partition occupies the remainder of the device capacity, or 16 GB, whichever is smaller.' Upon inserting a blank USB storage device, 'consumers are offered two choices: "Configure now" or "Customize."' The 'Configure now' option will use 'the entire device capacity, up to the maximum of 512 MB plus 16 GB,' meaning, regardless of the overall size of the device you're using, the Xbox will only enable 16 GB of usable, non-system storage. The 'Customize' option will allow you to 'preserve some pre-existing, non-console data on the device' such as music."
There have also been rumors of a new, smaller form factor for the 360, and hacker Ben Heck has given his thoughts on some leaked motherboard pictures.
Orly? (Score:5, Funny)
I'm surprised I haven't seen PS3 fanboys laughing about this before.. it's even worse than not being able to watch DVDs on your Wii's DVD drive..
Re:Orly? (Score:5, Funny)
>>I'm surprised I haven't seen PS3 fanboys laughing about this before.. it's even worse than not being able to watch DVDs on your Wii's DVD drive..
Or, uh, PC gamer fanboys, who have been able to use USB drives with their gaming boxes since ~1998.
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Yep, but they don't tend to chip in so much and so obnoxiously in these console wars.
Disclaimer: I own a PS3, Wii, DS, PSP and used to love PC gaming too but have no need for it at the moment.
The next Wii Menu (Score:2)
it's even worse than not being able to watch DVDs on your Wii's DVD drive..
wiibrew
Watch Wii Menu 4.3 break your homebrew.
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And then watch it be fixed in under 24 hours.
Or, alternatively, watch me not update.
That was my original goal once I got WiiBrew installed. Sadly, I had a friend gift me several WiiWare titles. I never could get the store upgraded alone via WiiBrew, so I ended up just upgrading my Wii. I only used WiiBrew to add watching DVD movies and streaming video from a network share. As I also got a 360 at about the same time, I did not mind loosing the DVD playing on my Wii.
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And then watch it be fixed in under 24 hours.
4.0 to Bannerbomb took over a month.
Or, alternatively, watch me not update.
No updates, no new games. If you're not playing new games, why not buy a cheap DVD player? And watch new consoles come with the new firmware. Remember the old days of PSP hacking, when people would analyze the boxes to find a sign of what firmware they came with?
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No updates, no new games. If you're not playing new games, why not buy a cheap DVD player? And watch new consoles come with the new firmware. Remember the old days of PSP hacking, when people would analyze the boxes to find a sign of what firmware they came with?
It almost seems like you are cheerleading their efforts to break someone's setup. The constant updates that these companies are throwing at us now are getting ridiculous. I don't like the idea of not owning the equipment in my home.
If this were an
Programmer art (Score:3, Interesting)
It almost seems like you are cheerleading their efforts to break someone's setup.
Once I was looking to develop Wii homebrew games myself. But then I saw two drawbacks.
First, I ran into the so-called "homebrew complexity wall", where a lone developer with a day job will lack the time to provide both high-quality code and high-quality art. In order to replace notoriously bad programmer art, I'd have to charge for my game in order to afford to pay an artist. Reactions to the sale of copies of BootMii-related tools show that the Wii homebrew community likes to keep it strictly non-commer
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(BTW, in the off chance that anything I just posted provides inspiration (ha!), all these images are hereby released under creative commons.)
For one thing, which Creative Commons license [gnu.org]?
For another, all Creative Commons licenses are incompatible with all GNU licenses because unlike CC licenses, GNU licenses do not allow authors to require downstream reusers to remove attributions to the author. See Wikisource discussion [wikipedia.org]. As for whether code and other parts of a video game form an "aggregate" that does not require license compatibility, I'm not sure what the GPL [gnu.org] means by "separate and independent works, which are not by their nature extension
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When you wear out the drive (Score:4, Insightful)
Better yet, why buy a cheap DVD player? It's redundant.
Redundancy has its advantages [wikipedia.org]. When you wear out the drive in a $30 DVD player, you're out $30. When you wear out the drive in an unhacked Wii console, you're out $75 for a drive replacement. But when you wear out the drive in a $200 hacked Wii, on the other hand, you're out $200 plus your savegames. HackMii.com appears to be down right now (returning only "502 Bad Gateway"), but it ran a story sometime last year about Nintendo repairing a console with a dead DVD drive after warranty expiration and charging the owner for a whole new Wii because it was found to have been modded.
PC plugged into the wall (Score:2)
It's one less thing to have plugged into the wall.
Then why not just do your gaming, web surfing, and movie watching on a PC?
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Is this actually a problem for anyone? Who owns a Wii, doesn't own a DVD player but has a desire to play DVDs? DVD players are so cheap you just go and buy one.
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That may be so, but it doesn't explain why the Wii doesn't offer DVD playback even as a feature available for a nominal sum of money. Some people don't like having two devices plugged into their TV when the one they already own is more than adequate for the task.
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It's just a pain in the ass. It's much nicer to have one device that does everything. At my mum's house there is a freeview box, PS2 and a Wii. The TV only has 2 SCART inputs too - one of which is taken up by the freeview box. So if the Wii is plugged in and you want to watch a DVD you have to go round the back of the TV and switch the cables around (or use a switcher box as I'm sure some people want to point out).
Compare this to my PS3: I can play my music, watch digital video files, watch TV (with the Pla
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The PS3 let's you plug any FAT formatted devices into the PS3 and read / write unprotected content to & from the device. You can also backup your files to a device assuming it has the space. What you can't do is use the disk for ad hoc storage of protected content except through the backup mechanism.
The MS solution appears to repartition the device. Presuma
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The Xbox plays media content from USB Mass Storage just fine. This is talking about storing game data (savegames, probably DLC and so on), which is at the moment only possible on the internal hdd or custom memory cards.
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Ah, that's not so bad then - but the artificial limitations are still pathetic money grubbing on Microsoft's part.
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It'll be because of region restrictions. I had to buy a region free DVD player to play some stuff. AFAIK they haven't started enforcing region coding on any blu-rays yet.
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I didn't say they don't have it, I said they haven't been enforcing/using it AFAIK. Now I know slightly better.
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Go check your PS3 box or any of the game cases, they'll have the region logo on the back it's a little square with a portion of a globe and a number.
I've yet to see a game disc that enforces this, however Downloaded content IS region locked, though only to the account (IE: you can us
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PS3 games DONT have region encoding...
The region label on the cover only shows the "intended" region where the game is meant to be played, but the hardware does not lock out a USA disc in a European PS3.
However, there may be a region issues in terms of Online/Downloadable content. However, thats entirely in the software and is up to the publisher.
Re:Ha Ha... (Score:4, Insightful)
I haven't had the DVD problem, although to be honest I've played maybe one DVD on the system. I've been doing a LOT of UPnP playback from my media server though.
Could you elaborate on what about the PS3 sucks as bad as the Xbox? For a long time I was on the fence between buying a PS3 or 360, especially once FFXIII for 360 was announced. In the end I went with PS3 due to Blu-Ray. I'm glad I did, the PS3 seems to be COMPLETELY different in terms of Sony attitude compared to most of their products in regards to weird nonstandard technologies.
Storage is USB with no "oddball" restrictions. (Just lack of support for "oddball" configurations.)
Cameras are USB UVC devices
Wired headsets are USB audio compliant
Wireless headsets are Bluetooth
Standard USB keyboards/mice work fine
The internal hard drive is SATA and nothing (other than maybe power/thermal limits - is the stock hard drive 5400 RPM or 7200?) restricts you from putting a bigger one in.
I've actually been very pleasantly surprised by the system compared to what I expected prior to owning it. Without planning it, I have a massive pile of accessories for my PS3 which were bought for other purposes.
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Except the shitty-quality screws Sony uses in the HDD caddy. Chances are you'll strip one minimum while changing the HDD.
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That only applies to the newer Slim version. however, they are just normal screws, easy to obtain. Nothing special.
But yeah, they fitted the "softer" screws to avoid people from damaging the thread on the HD from being idiotic. That was a common issue they observed fromt he earlier PS3, Joe sixpacks ripping the threads on the HDD due to overtightening, or misalignment.
Easier (and cheaper) to replace a screw than a HD.
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Try using a jewelers screwdriver set (you know, the ones made for tiny screws) and you won't have any problems at all. Frankly, it's scary (and sad) to watch those YouTube videos where people are using their 8" Phillips head screwdriver to work with small parts.
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Whoops, I meant to go back and reply to some of your other points after previewing, but hit Submit instead of preview.
There are cameras other than the EyeToy that work on the PS3?
The 360's headsets plug directly into the controller. Unfortunately, this means they probably have a proprietary connector.
Since Xbox 360 wireless controllers are Bluetooth, I'm assuming wireless headphones are too.
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Standard USB keyboards/mice work fine
Same applies to the 360.
no it doesn't.
Microsoft's guidelines prevent 360 games from shipping with standard USB devices for game input, including but not limited to USB joysticks, USB/bluetooth mice/keyboard(UT3 supports keyboard/mouse input, FWIW; UT for PS2 did the same thing.), etc.
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To answer some of your questions:
There are cameras other than the EyeToy that work on the PS3?
Yes any USB cameras that support the UVC standard will work, thoguh some GAMES may require the Playstation Eye.
the Xbox 360 wireless controllers are NOT bluetooth.
As for the other things, here is a comment i wrote for another story.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1587178&cid=31522810 [slashdot.org]
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The 360's headsets plug directly into the controller. Unfortunately, this means they probably have a proprietary connector.
From personal experience, they're interchangeable with 2.5mm earphone/mic headsets used by lots of cell phones.
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The extra plastic is an interface for the thumb board. Nothing big.
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DVD Upscaling (Score:2)
DVD upscaling also works, on the 360, DVDs look horrendous, with plenty of aliasing and interlacing artifacts.
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Hit Triangle, then View All to explore the iPod's directory tree on the PS3. That's for FAT iPods, not the older HFS ones.
Still Xbox 360? (Score:4, Interesting)
They're still developing new Xbox 360 versions? Usually after so many years, there appear new consoles. But this time it seems none of the big 3 console makers has any plans for this.
Another indication that processing speeds aren't really increasing anymore these days?
Re:Still Xbox 360? (Score:5, Insightful)
With the limited exception of assimilating certain things that used to be optional extras as they become cheap(eg. original PS2 had ethernet as an add-on module, by the time the PS2 slim came around, an embedded NIC was much more sensible than an option port), console makers don't really have much incentive to change specs too often, since they are generally trying to cut costs over the console's lifetime, and avoid fragmentation of the market.
However, while substantial spec changes are comparatively rare, and have historically proven to be a bad idea, most consoles go through numerous revisions(some fairly subtle, and visible only to people who care about inspecting motherboards in detail, others quite visible for marketing purposes, like the new PS3 design) that leave the specs largely the same +/- a few nonessential peripherals; but aim at reducing production costs and correcting flaws in older designs.
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Processor speeds are increasing. However they are irrelevant for most home-and-garden computer varieties. Heck, I actively look for processors that have less power and are smaller for home (Mac Mini vs. Mid-Tower).
I also work with a biomedics lab and I'm actively looking for a "quiet" 4-way or 8-way workstation which can also fit a couple of nVidia Tesla's - something you need a 1.5-2kW power supply for. I'm waiting for the new Xeon's to come out first though since they think the current generation 2-way qu
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Another indication that processing speeds aren't really increasing anymore these days?
They are increasing, hugely. Clock speed != processing speed, despite Intels' stupid Pentium 4 marketing.
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No more expensive memory cards? (Score:4, Insightful)
Does this means i can use my simple USB stick instead of a memory card to keep my savegames on? (i have two xboxes, so i need portability)
Either MS just killed their memorycard business, or this usb stuff is rather useless..
Also, YAY now you can just get the cheapest arcade xbox you can find, and a $10 usb stick, and have massive fun
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to a certain degree yes, but as i pointed out, i have two 360s, and i need to move my profile from machine to machine (along with saves). The only easy way to do this is to have the profile and saves on a memory card, which are frickin expensive.
Also, not all 360's come with a hard drive, the arcade/core version have no hard drive (later arcades come with built in 256mb flash). And again.. If you want to move around profiles/saves on the xbox, a memory card is the only easy way to do it (for profiles you co
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as i pointed out, i have two 360s, and i need to move my profile from machine to machine (along with saves). The only easy way to do this is to have the profile and saves on a memory card, which are frickin expensive.
Why not just detach the hard drive and transfer it? They're external modules, designed to be easily removed and replaced. I'll admit I've not tried this - perhaps it doesn't work - but this seems like the logical approach.
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Read the comment you're replying to, dumbass:
"You could also swap hard disks, but that doesnt allow you and your buddy to both use your own profiles at the same time)"
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The Xbox 360 Arcade has always come with a built-in 256MB flash. This was announced before it even came out.
The model it replaced, the Xbox 360 Core, didn't have a hard drive.
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Does this means i can use my simple USB stick instead of a memory card to keep my savegames on? (i have two xboxes, so i need portability)
What I would like to know if they'd support memory card readers. I can play music on Xbox 360 off USB drives, but not SD memory cards through an USB card reader... which is a little bit silly, because to my Linux box, the card reader just shows up as a yet another USB mass storage device. (I haven't tried the photo app on 360, which sounds like it could conceivably support card readers.)
Either MS just killed their memorycard business,
And good riddance to that! Console-specific memory cards suck, standard card formats rule! I cheered when I found out that
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Yes it does, and yes they have. The assumption is the upcoming 360 slim doesn't have space for the memory card slots.
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Oy (Score:5, Interesting)
So you can connect an external storage unit, but it'll only use 16GB of it? That's a bit less then the size of the smallest 360 hard drive, which they don't even sell anymore.
I guess they don't want to cannibalize their outrageously priced upgrade drive business.
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Actually, once you've lost space to the various cache partitions the 360 wishes to have to speed up your loading, and the ones that are required to offer compatibility on XBox 1 games, the useable partition for saves / installs / whatever on a 20Gb 360 drive is only about 13.5 Gb. So this isn't as bad as it sounds.
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For comparison I've upgraded my PS3 with a 320GB internal drive for installing games and recording TV, and I regularly connect up external USB drives to transfer media or save games. Any FAT32 formatted drive works, including my 500GB Passport.
Microsoft are really fucking people over here. Big surprise..
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Although given how rife savegame hacking is on the PS3, it does demonstrate that MS aren't _completely_ talking out of their backside when they claim this is why they have until now not liked third-party memory units. I'm guessing there will be some barriers to playing around with the data in these custom partitions.
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And savegame hacking is a problem how?
If people want to ruin their game experience by cheating or whatever, that's up to them.
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And savegame hacking is a problem how?
If people want to ruin their game experience by cheating or whatever, that's up to them.
It's not the ability to ruin your game experience as much as the ability to run that of your online opponents.
Re:Oy (Score:4, Insightful)
Any online game that allows a savegame hack to affect online play violates the "do not trust the client... EVER." mantra.
Violating that mantra almost always leads to crap multiplayer with rampant cheating for one reason or another. When I first saw Crysis' description of why they separated DX10 players from DX9 (more powerful systems to perform physics calculations on, implying that world physics was *offloaded to the client*) I was worried that multiplayer was going to have some cheating problems. Boy was I right... I played multiplayer for about a week then uninstalled Crysis. It's NOT good when someone can change one XML file and make their pistol bullets do 9999999 damage and their vehicles immune to all weapons fire.
How to not trust a nondedicated server? (Score:2)
Any online game that allows a savegame hack to affect online play violates the "do not trust the client... EVER." mantra.
In all but MMO games, one of the clients also acts as the server. Whom should the players trust?
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Many companies have server infrastructure that handles things to make cheating and save games harder.
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Maybe it has changed, but for a long time, most games had "dedicated" servers.
Yes, you had to trust the server admin, but at least they would have incentive to "play honest" - otherwise no one would use their server. Since dedicated server admins usually have a bit more invested into hosting a server (in terms of bandwidth, etc), they're less likely to screw around.
Client-side cheaters, on the other hand, can be douchebaggy on any server.
Also, as someone else said, a lot of games have hosted servers for no
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Computations such as physics should occur on multiple clients
The physics are computed identically on multiple clients. Save hacks would only change the set of items that a player carries into a match.
and if the results don't agree to within a specified error, the clients in the minority gets booted.
So if the server is run on the same machine as one of the cheating clients, what would stop it from aiding the cheater?
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most multiplayer games are locked, most major releases have been locked since trophies actually
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I'm very unhappy with this situation. I really preferred portability of my game saves over trophies. I don't really play online so I could care less about that aspect of it.
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Were you only playing single-player titles, I couldn't care in the least, although it does rather indicate why people don't care about Trophies as much as they do Achievements. When you use it to create an unfair advantage in multiplayer games, it reminds me of the worth of my Live subscription fee.
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The problem isn't that it's just you. Namely, achievements on the 360 are a big thing. They're competitive, and a bit of a status symbol (before anybody starts yelling at me about that let me just say that I'm stating it like it is - my 360 hasn't been turned on in over a month and my game collection is pretty small - about 8 games total). If you can hack your savegames, then you can "earn" achievements on Xbox Live that you didn't technically earn. That gives you an unfair advantage against others in t
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Some games do restrict copying of savegames. Others don't. I don't see why it should matter anyway, it's up to the player if they want to miss out on half of the game by cheating.. personally I don't usually mess around with cheats until I've completed the game properly.
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16.5GB ought to be enough for anyone.
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I guess they don't want to cannibalize their outrageously priced upgrade drive business.
I figured they'd go for something like an optional SSD in the same form factor as the hard drives. Should be good for some high margin.
Strange Sizing (Score:5, Insightful)
The 'Configure now' option will use 'the entire device capacity, up to the maximum of 512 MB plus 16 GB,'
So who sells 16.5 GB USB sticks?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Strange Sizing (Score:5, Funny)
I'll care... (Score:2, Insightful)
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/10180/ [steampowered.com]
Here's your ladder out of hell (and into another).
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Last time I checked, the 360 itself supports USB mouse and keyboard.
Which means the developer decided not to support it, or you just never tried it.
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Games are not allowed to be controllable via mouse/keyboard although the system does support them for entering text etc. The PS3 is the same, FYI. There are a number of reasons for the restriction, some good some bad.
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PS3 has no such restriction.
UT3 plays with mouse and keyboard just fine.
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Huh, didn't know that. Thanks for the correction :)
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Also, I use a custom built PCB that reports as a standard USB HID joystick and works just fine for Street Fighter 4 and generally as a PS3 digital only device.
(For more info: google: Toodles Cthulhu PCB)
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You have articulated your argument very well. I see clearly now the intelligence you bring to the table and I have no choice but to change my stance on the subject.
You win this time...
The 16GB limit (Score:3, Interesting)
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There's a program out now for the iPhone via an external cydia repo that emulates a usb drive at whatever size and specs you like. It's all stored in a virtual container. Let them set this up however they like - emulating that setup on the iphone will happen in 3, 2,...
Re:The 16GB limit - Karma (Score:1)
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the PS3 remains "unhackable" not because of Karmic justice or amazing copy protection but because of 3 simple facts:
-the Xbox360 was released a year before the ps3, so it had 1 more year to be hacked and 1 more year to make its game library more appealing (increasing interest in hacking it)
-the PS3 had a pretty uninteresting game library up until about a year ago, the install base was also pretty low compared to the other consoles until recently
-the Blu-Ray is a pretty good anti-piracy tool, pirating a ps3
Not very useful (Score:2)
Already has mass storage support (Score:5, Informative)
My xbox 360 has a 250GB external USB drive attached to it that is used to store copies of home movies.
Although the article isn't as clear as it could be, this is really about adding support for Xbox downloadable content to use USB storage.
Oh, and for a laugh - currently the Xbox can't read NTFS format drives. FAT isn't suitable. So... use a mac, format as HFS+, and the xbox will happily use them.
16gb partitions? (Score:2, Interesting)
what about cheating? (Score:3, Interesting)
When MS dropped the hammer on Datel's large, 3rd party memory cards, they said they had to do it since those devices allowed cheating. That is, they were read/writable from non-Xboxes since they used SD cards for storage and thus you could easily mod saves.
How does MS square that with this action? This device is read/writeable from non-Xboxes since it's regular USB, isn't it?
I personally never believed that MS' actions were for any reason other than to protect their revenue stream. But can't really go back on their story now, can they? Can Datel sue over something like this if they do?
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It may be read/writable but you can bet bet your a$$ it will be encrypted. You can probably only copy stuff to it from an Xbox and vice versa. Stop those cheats hacking their saved games.
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Hmm. That's an interesting point. But if the Xbox can write the data in an encrypted form, then that means the Xbox knows the encryption key and thus it can be extracted and put into software on a PC to write it and presumably read it too.
The extraction may be difficult (in fact I would expect it to be), but it's possible to do so.
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What do you think the hackers have been trying to do for the last five years? ;)
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They could address the issue by using encryption, checksums, and so forth. Of course, they could have done that for third-party cards too, but if they weren't planning to support externally read/write-capable devices they wouldn't have had a need for security on the data. Now that they are adding such support, it's *possible* that they will also add such encryption.
Cable Card readers (Score:1)
Just proof of how awesome Sony is doing (Score:2)
Despite their year lead and their supposed superior list of games the PS3 has zoomed up on their ass and has a slim chance of over taking