Turbine Responds To DDO Community Protest

Zarrot writes "Turbine has listened to the community and backed away from the partnership with SuperRewards that we discussed yesterday. Quoting: 'Based on your feedback, we're stepping away from the "Offer" category for now. We'll keep exploring alternate ways for players who want points to get them. We'll also continue to innovate in pricing and accessibility because that's who we are. As of today, the Offer Wall is coming down. We'll collect all the feedback we've received over the last few days and will use it to guide future decisions.'"

I was glad to hear this

[dschl]

Thank-you Turbine, for bringing down the Wall so quickly in response to customer concerns, and for apologizing to DDO players. That helps immensely.

Apologies are few and far between these days, and it is refreshing whenever a corporation actually says they are sorry.

I enjoy playing DDO, and I hope that the apology will help mitigate the harm to the game caused by this incident, and I also hope that the game population will continue to grow.

Re:

[the_Bionic_lemming]

You have to be a member of their community now to read the previous forum post of the complaints. I thought that was a bit whiney of them.

At least it's not as bad aas what Mythic did earlier this week.

Re:

[sopssa]

But it wasn't mandatory, was it? They did implement the feature badly, but there was other ways to pay too right?

Re:

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Yes, you can buy points to buy premium content (pay2play zones or power ups or items), or you can pay the monthly fee like the good old days and get all the zones (and some bonus points per month).

That's not the point. The option should not involve scammery or even the appearance of scammery.

I still don't want WeatherBug anywhere near my computers even though it's been legit, apparently, for years.

Re:

[crashumbc]

I still don't want WeatherBug anywhere near my computers even though it's been legit, apparently, for years.

When did it go legit? I haven't worked desktop support for years but I STILL go into convulsive fits I hear anyone mention it or I see it on a computer...

Re:

[dschl]

Other ways to pay? Certainly. But nothing should have been sent to the scammers just from viewing a page hosted on Turbine's site. That was a severely bad implementation problem. The other problem was Turbine associating with a company like SuperScamSpamRewards in the first place.

There are 3 type of account on DDO. VIP is a regular monthly subscription that gets access to all content and most account features, along with 500 Turbine Points each month. Free to Play pays nothing, can access a good subset of c

Re:

[Moryath]

No kidding. Reading the full post, it's less a "oops we learned our lesson" and more a "oops, we need to find a way to dress it up so less people realize we're working with SuperSpamScamRewards" post.

They need to learn the lesson: DO. NOT. ASSOCIATE. WITH. THOSE. PEOPLE.

If we could target enough companies to make them block off SuperSpamScamRewards and their brethren, then "businesses" like SuperSpamScamRewards would cease to exist.

Re:

[SBFCOblivion]

At least it's not as bad aas what Mythic did earlier this week.

Could you fill me in please?

Re:

[mujadaddy]

Multiple (a dozen or more) billings of your Warhammer account.

Re:

[poetmatt]

it sounds like it's entirely possible that management didnt' think there would be a huge outcry. good to know they've realized otherwise.

Re:I was glad to hear this

[dschl]

I think that management had a rosy picture in their minds [slashdot.org], that was dispelled by the cruel, harsh light of reality. The original post appears to only live in Google's cache. Unclassy.

Here's the full link from the DDO forums [ddo.com] front page (obtained from google cache [googleusercontent.com]):

Get More FREE Turbine Points with New Offer Wall!
April 12, 2010
Want to get your hands on more Turbine Points? Visit my.ddo.com/getpoints, log in, and check out the latest offers from our friends at SuperRewards. Simply complete a qualifying offer and SuperRewards will credit your account with Turbine Points* to use in the DDO Store! This new feature is just another way for players to get points in addition to earning them in-game or buying them directly. Unlike earning or buying points, however, players may complete offers right on the website and do not need to be logged into the game.

This new feature is an addition to our current DDO Store system and does not replace the existing ways you already get points. We will continue to add new offer providers and payment methods in the coming months - if you have a preferred payment method, we’ll probably support it. For now, the fastest and easiest way to get guaranteed points is still to buy them in the DDO Store directly from Turbine.

Enjoy!

Frequently Asked Questions:

Q. What is the offer wall?
A. The offer wall at my.ddo.com is a feature that allows players to earn Turbine Points for completing offers from various Offer Vendors.

Q. What’s an offer?
A. An offer is an advertisement for a product or service that typically requires you to perform an action. That may include registering for a newsletter, signing up for a subscription service, or buying a product. Offers may also include market research such as surveys, online focus groups, and more.

Q. Do I have to do this?
A. Of course not! This system is provided as a service to those who would like more Turbine points and who prefer not to pay for them in the traditional fashion.

Q. What about my personal information? Is it safe?
A. We do not share any personal information with the offer vendor other than an anonymous unique ID and an e-mail address for your receipt to be sent to. This information is not transmitted unless you participate in the offer wall system. You may be (and probably will be) asked to provide additional information to complete an offer. Turbine has no way to control what happens with that information or how it is handled. We recommend that you use your discretion when signing up for offers. As always, protecting your privacy requires vigilance.

Q. Where is SuperRewards’ Privacy Policy located?
A. Online at http://www.superrewards-offers.com/super/privacy [superrewards-offers.com]

Q. I have a problem with X Offer or Y Offer Advertiser. What do I do?
A. Turbine provides no direct support for issues with our offer providers. If you have an issue with something related to the offer system please direct your inquiries to the Offer Vendor.

Q. Who is the Offer Vendor?
A. Our first partner in this program is SuperRewards. Their support information may be found at http://www.srpoints.com/help [srpoints.com]

Q. I have more questions. Who do I talk to?
A. The detailed service FAQ for the offer wall is in our public KB at http://na6.salesforce.com/_ui/selfservice/pkb/PublicKnowledgeSolution/d?orgId=00D8000000 [salesforce.com]

Re:

[Rhys]

I'm not 100% convinced by the apology.

And the "Come back to Asheron's Call" mail that arrived shortly afterward was ... poor timing.

Re:

[dschl]

Everyone makes mistakes. That apology was merely the first step in rebuilding trust. Turbine will have to tread carefully for a while to come, as many of their players will remain watchful, if not outright suspicious should anything similar arise in the future.

I'm taking it at face value, unless given evidence otherwise. It's not 100% for me either, but it got them into the 80's or 90's for now. When I compare Turbine's response to almost any other organization that has made a mistake that affected me, it w

Re:

[sortius_nod]

As a casual DDO player, I see this as a win for Turbine and a win for the community. It's true, you rarely see heartfelt apologies from companies, let alone game companies.

There's this attitude that seems the prevail these days that denying any fault is the main course of action for these kind of events. I'm not sure if it's to cover their arses from being sued, or for some reason companies think it's limits damage of their "image" to try and worm your way out of it.

I know, for me, if I see a genuine apolog

Re:

[feuerfalke]

FTFT:

Overall it was a poor user experience that was not up to our standards, and for this we apologize.

Re:

[CorporateSuit]

Quit thinking you deserve one.

Re:

[Reason58]

Quit thinking you deserve one.

Oops. Looks like you forgot to check the anonymous coward box before submitting.

Re:

[Sinryc]

What if he felt he didn't need to check it. The company decided to do something, the public didn't like it, so they changed it. For a free game. I repeat that. For a free game. Anyway, I'm glad they apologized, but you can't always think someone who doesn't go along with group think is a troll.

Re:

[poetmatt]

free game has nothing to do with it. Why do people focus on shit like that? It shows a lack of understanding of what they do.

Even a game which is for free, still has things which can be paid for. Also, all of that requires a userbase and/or customers. Screw those customers, and well, there goes your money too.

Re:

[CorporateSuit]

They didn't insult your mother. They didn't cause the death of one of your children. Your name wasn't slandered, and you have as many fingers and toes today as you had last week. You have no need for someone to grieve for your negligible losses in order for you to recuperate. You were getting exactly what you were paying for -- there is no apology neccessary to complete your transactions.

They tried to increase the revenues it takes to keep these games alive, while providing (what they imagined to be)

Re:Disappointed

[Toonol]

Simply, you don't understand the situation. They put a link to malware and scams on their site, and encouraged their customers to go there. They sent your user ID and email address of everybody who even looked at it to the scammers, even if the user accepted no offer.

If you have pre-cache turned on, your email and userid was sent even if you never left their site.

Actually using any of the offers, if you were so foolish, would result in malware installations.

You have to question either the competence or the ethics of any company that thought that was a good idea. I'm more prone to question their competence, in this case.

Re:

[poetmatt]

I love how he didn't reply to this. Somehow people think this is somehow more "ok" with a free game, even though it's blatantly unethical in any form.

Re:

[dschl]

Learn to read then. From the DDO site [ddo.com], emphasis added:

There were also technical issues that raised valid questions about security. Overall it was a poor user experience that was not up to our standards, and for this we apologize.

Sure, I would have phrased it differently, but you can bet that the corporate drone who approved this debacle in the first place died a little inside even thinking about those words.

While not a perfect apology, it is good enough for me.

Why did Turbine respond to this...

[Orga]

I'm curious what makes this company different or the protest different from other instances of the same wholesale of userbase information to any bidder. Is Facebook going to respond like this to user protests when they sell off their user information? Google? Is there anything we can learn form this circumstance that will allow a userbase to better deal with mischevious company practices?

Re:

[ShadowDragoonFTW]

I think the only thing we really learned is that Turbine isn't a bunch of soulless jerk-asses purely after our money. They actually care about the consumer enough to listen to their concerns. Frankly, I always liked Turbine, and it actually shattered my image of them when I heard they were making this deal to begin with. But, now that they've backed out of it so quickly, it's given me a little more respect for them.

Re:

[Monkeedude1212]

I'm curious what makes this company different or the protest different from other instances of the same wholesale of userbase information to any bidder

In this case, DDO would lose its customer base. Facebook and Google don't have many alternatives with an equal product where selling the information isn't still occuring.

However, theres still a handful of MMO's out there not doing this, which one could easily jump ship for.

What a stupid comment

[SmallFurryCreature]

Turbine wants to get cash from its customers. And its primary customers ARE the players.

You are not a google customer just because you use their search or gmail. The advertisers are their customers. YOU are their product. They don't sell search, they sell eyeballs.

Facebook is the same. The people who use facebook are not the people with accounts but the advertisers who try to reach them. Facebook gets its money from advertisers.

And don't like it?

Then don't use it.

It ain't all that hard. If I don't want

Re:

[Monkeedude1212]

You are not a google customer just because you use their search or gmail. The advertisers are their customers. YOU are their product. They don't sell search, they sell eyeballs.

The same dynamics apply. If Google pisses off its "Product" base, and everyone goes over to Bing, Google will make less money because advertisers won't pay them as much.

Re:

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Or, more accurately, if Google started serving up ad links to similar scam sites, people would start fleeing Google, too.

Re:

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I suspect that Turbine backed down for two reasons: One, they had gotten in bed with a genuinely sleazy outfit, and pretty directly. The sort of sleazy and scammy that might actually go beyond "bad publicity" and in to "Attorney General who needs to polish his 'consumer protection' cred asking you some very unpleasant questions' territory."

Second, Turbine is basically small fry. Facebook, for instance, can be found in the dictionary under "Network effects, power of", right next to Microsoft and TCP/IP. U

Re:

[dschl]

Because Turbine was weak, they didn't have the resources or knowledge to go with a quiet and subtle way of selling you out, so they fucked up and chose a crass and obvious one.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. [wikipedia.org] I think someone screwed up in finance or marketing. An interview [ddocast.com] with the executive producer in March 2010 referenced this as follows:

Fernando also mentioned that Update 4 will include as-yet-unspecified "Character Bank Upgrades" and the ability to announce certain accomplishments in DDO to your Facebook feed. He also mentioned that Turbine will soon announce details of a deal with a third-party vendor to allow players to earn

Re:

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I would argue that, when somebody is in a position of responsibility, they ought to be held to the slightly less sympathetic variant on Hanlon's Razor(with apologies to Clarke, of course): "sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."

Re:

[dschl]

The DDO Forums damn-near literally exploded yesterday over this issue. Turbine got the message loud and clear, and saw that people were ready to vote with their wallets.

I don't expect altruism from a corporation, but I expect someone with my credit card information to be trustworthy, and to partner with trustworthy firms. This is a huge step in the right direction, and is helping restore my confidence in Turbine.

I would suggest that the typical Facebook user is quite different from a typical DDO player. Mos

Re:

[dschl]

Have you sought professional help? You should, really.

Re:

[bmk67]

Analogy epic fail.

Re:

[lgw]

This is why I like Turbine - Sony would have responded by closing the forums (and in fact has, in some games), and then banning players when the protests moved in-game. So, yeah, major mistake on their part, but I think they just got over it without any real long-term damage to their playerbase, simply by not compounding their mistake by being jerks about it. The apology helped out there as well.

Re:

[Aklyon]

no, the typical facebook user thinks they have to google "facebook login" to login to facebook.
Thats so far away from those guildmates of yours its uncomparable.

Re:

[dschl]

Search is promised for this year. Finally. There have been bug fixes with the monthly updates - mass heal was just fixed last week.

They appear to be trying and making progress. I would expect to see more this year, since the extra revenue from going Free to Play has only started to appear in the past 6 months, and it takes time to ramp up development.

Ideally, Turbine's goal should be to extract as much money from premium players like me as they obtain from VIPs. There are two ways to do this, but only one k

Re:

[lgw]

While DDO has some truly sad longstanding bugs, I've been very impressed that they occasionally fix some of them! It seems normal tha once the userbase gets used to any bug in an MMO, no matter how silly, the company stops caring about it. Turbine is at least making slow progress.

And IMO they've done an awesome job in their freemium model. I've played a variety of "free" Korean-style MMOs, and comparitively Turbine does a great job at putting items in the store that are very attractive, yet don't make yo

Re:

[dschl]

I think it was pretty fast, and an appropriate response. The wall came down. They said the words "we apologize".

I hope they don't make the same mistake twice, or allow any other major goof-ups like this to take place. I want to keep playing this game for a long time to come, and more mistakes like that could be fatal to the game.

Apology Accepted

[Jaysyn]

Apology Accepted. I really did need to clear off a little space on my hard drive, but I'll probably reinstall DDO eventually.

Re:

[Skuld-Chan]

Losing trust is probably the worst thing that could ever happen to a MMO...

Re:

[lgw]

Sony proves that losing trust is just the beginning of the bad things that can happen to an MMO! Fortunately, Turbine is classier than that.

Re:

[dschl]

Ever look at the UID range of most comments? It's pretty sad when the lowest UID of any commenter to this story is in the 50k range. I rarely comment anymore, and apart from stories that directly interest or affect me, and rarely read the comments either. Most of the time, I don't even log in, just scan the front page, and carry on with my day.