Civilization V To Use Steamworks 295
sopssa writes "2K Games today announced that Civilization V will be using Steamworks for online matchmaking, automated updates, downloadable content and DRM for the game. Steam's Civ V store page is also available now, revealing some new information about the game. There will be an 'In-Game Community Hub' for online matchmaking, communication, and for sharing scenarios between players. While including Steamworks might put some people off, it might also indicate better online gameplay than in the previous Civilization games, where it was almost impossible to have a good game without playing with just friends."
Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Funny)
The thing that really sucks about this is that Civiliation has always been my go to game when my internet connection is down.
Next they will take away HOMM, and I'll be stuck talking to my family or something when internet goes down. (shudder)
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I pay to have more problems?
I'll wait and see.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Insightful)
That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a row of boxes sitting on a shelf with Civ1 - 4/Warlords. If they put something on there that is a problem it will be the first cracked version that I've downloaded for free.
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Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, you're assuming that the DRM is legal in the first place, which it isn't. It removes your ability to make back-up copies as allowed by law.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think your correct that it isn't a right at all, it's simply something that's legal to do. There's a big difference between something being a 'right' and something being legal for you to do. For example, it may be legal to drive at 35mph on a community road, but that community might put in some speed bumps that makes maintaining that speed difficult. You could even say nearly forcing you to slow down. Maintaining that speed is perfectly legal, but it isn't a right that cannot be impeded.
I'm not a lawyer
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Informative)
You can make backups of Steam games, not to mention that you can re-download them as many times as you want, even on different computers. You can also play them offline, so I don't see what your problem is.
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You can make backups of Steam games, not to mention that you can re-download them as many times as you want, even on different computers. You can also play them offline, so I don't see what your problem is.
You cannot install a steam backup without steam. You cannot use steam without updating it. You cannot update it without a network connection. Thus, you can not restore a steam backup "offline", you can only unpack it. The difference is playability. That's what the problem is.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you resell your game?
Can you activate your game without Steam?
If one day Steam goes down, how long will you still be able to play your game?
Can you, with a straight face, and with honesty, claim that a Steam game is 100% under your control? Can you answer this last question without "but"s?
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It's vastly more satisfying to thumb your nose at the pointlessness of the DRM by downloading the superior cracked version even if philosophically it's better to just not buy or play the game.
They'll blame the lost sale on piracy and lobby government for more draconian laws either way.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Interesting)
And that's exactly the problem with piracy these days. People think that restrictive DRM warrants an illegal download while the only legal solution to your problem would be to simply not play Civ V at all if you don't like the DRM.
Depends on where you live. Buying and installing a patch that removes the DRM is also legal in many places. And I think that where I live, not buying but downloading a complete cracked version is also legal, as long as I don't use torrent to do it (because then I'd be uploading at the same time).
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Copying is not the same as stealing.
Laws dealing with stealing have been around for thousands of years and far more proven in their long term usefulness to society than copyright laws.
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Why is this flamebait?
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People think that restrictive DRM warrants an illegal download while the only legal solution to your problem would be to simply not play Civ V at all if you don't like the DRM.
If I'm not going to buy the game in either case, playing a pirated copy doesn't cause the producer any loss of profit.
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If I'm not going to buy the game in either case, playing a pirated copy doesn't cause the producer any loss of profit.
In a sense that's true.
However, are you familiar with the Tragedy of the Commons?
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I choose to buy games simply because we don't have another renumeration method for game devs.
So, uh... other than "If I want to play the game they made, I should give them money", what's your alternate renumeration method?
If possible, name one that still allows for games on the scale that take a team of professional developers working full time for a year or more to create.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a row of boxes sitting on a shelf with Civ1 - 4/Warlords. If they put something on there that is a problem it will be the first cracked version that I've downloaded for free.
If it ends up being broken because of DRM, why not buy the game so the developers get their cut and then download the cracked version? You get an easy-to-use version, the developers get their cut, and everyone is happy.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Insightful)
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or somebody happens to break into your account and they disable it
Happens to break into your account? How does that happen?
I'd like to know your opinion on online banking.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Insightful)
In most countries if your bank account is compromised there's regulations to protect you.
If on the other hand you have a large number of games the steam admins can simply confiscate your property and you have no recourse.
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Spyware with keyloggers that steals logins of all kinds, usually. Hell, they'll even rob WoW characters of equipment these days, not to mention webmail accounts and (obviously) online bank accounts.
That was exactly my thought.
What I can't imagine is even thinking about my steam games after someone has emptied my bank account.
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Banks use static passwords where you live?
My bank requires me to enter a new number each time on a small keypad, and it produces a unique response, so a keylogger won't do much good.
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It works until you tire of the game and want to sell it
Nobody ever tires of Civilization.
Just.. one.. more.. turn..
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When I first got steam, I was on dialup. When you install Steam, you have to update it. These during-install updates are downloaded with no resume facility. I had to actually take my computer to someplace with broadband in order to even install Steam. Once you have it installed, the updates (or purchased games) are downloaded with resume, but that's only after the initial update.
Further, Steam backups can't be played without installing and updating Steam as well, assuming it's not already installed. And kee
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I have already preordered Civ V, but this makes me a bit worried.
I have never played a game that uses Steam, so I don't know if it's bad or not. I'll definitively keep an eye on what people are saying.
But if it turns out to be too bad (for me), I'll just cancel my preorder and not get the game at all. There are plenty of other games out there (including Civ 4)
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It's not bad. After a while, you'll find that Steam has some distinct benefits.
Like when I buy a new computer, it'll download and install any of the games I want to play. No disks. I have played Steam on machines that lacked an optical drive entirely.
Get past the extra hassle of having to wait until the Steam client logs in (unless you set it to offline mode) before your game starts, but that only adds a couple of seconds to the game start. On my game machine, I
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It's not bad. After a while, you'll find that Steam has some distinct benefits.
Like when I buy a new computer, it'll download and install any of the games I want to play.
Agreed. I just built a new computer and reinstalling my steam games was a breeze.
My biggest complaint with steam, which is really with some of the publishers who use it rather than Steam itself, is that some games have extra DRM in addition to Steam such as Games For Windows Live (GFWL). I've only bought one game through Steam that uses GFWL, Red Faction: Guerrilla. I don't recall the Steam purchase page mentioning that I'd need to create a separate account and be signed into it as well in order to play
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It's quite annoying. You always have to start the Steam-client to play. For some reason you cannot copy&paste passwords so you have to always type it.
This is not true. You can create direct links to your games so that you don't have to start the steam client to play. It also has the option to remember your login, which has never failed me either. You have to enter your password only once and then it simply keeps you logged in, even if you shut down your PC.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Informative)
That direct link will still first start Steam. And steam in offline mode doesn't work as well as a lot of people claim. When I was playing the game Torchlight my ISP sucked big time and had a very unstable internet, or no internet connection at all. Due to the fact that the PC was connected to an internal network I had to wait for the Steam connection to timeout before it allowed me to go into offline mode, so I had to wait 5 minutes before the game would start. If I simply disabled all network connections on that machine it would prompt for offline mode within a minute. Another problem is that steam constantly tries to go out of offline mode. One time it managed to get through to the steam servers and saw there was an update for Torchlight. The result, I could no longer play Torchlight in offline mode because there was an update I was required to install. Of course with my ISP still sucking big time I could not download the files.
During this who crappy ISP period I regularly used tethering through my phone (using tetherbot) to browse the web, read email, etc. But what I couldn't do was tell Steam to connect to the proxy so it could access the internet so that I could finally unlock the game again.
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Never happened to me.
In that case, I'd just block steam in the firewall.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Insightful)
The most annoying thing is that if you raise the issue of these awful design problems steam fanboys leap in with shit like
"nobody with dialup/tethering plays games"(bonus if they link to a steam poll showing that yes in fact hardly anyone with dialup uses steam),
"THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH STEAM",
"HURR HURR HURR, GET A BETTER ISP"
Etc etc
the fanboys are far far more iritating than the devs.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Funny)
For those wondering about the stunningly arrogant and annoying fanboys I was refering to whos personality problems far surpass any problems with the platform please see exibit A above.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Informative)
You can disable the auto-update of games to prevent this.
Though I'll admit that it's annoying as hell that I can't play the older version of a game while the new version downloads...
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(Not sure if you're dense or just one of those fanboys HungryHobo talked about a few replies earlier. But I'll bite.)
Ok, so I have to disable all updating of games and go into offline mode before my ISP is starting to get network issues. And during that time I should never ever turn off my computer, or at least not close Steam. Because when Steam starts up it demands to go into online mode.
Also, after a few days in offline mode Steam will try to get back to online mode.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Interesting)
It's quite annoying. You always have to start the Steam-client to play.
It autostarts as you click your game icon.
For some reason you cannot copy&paste passwords so you have to always type it.
I don't even know my steam pass. I entered it once, maybe years ago.
There's supposed to be an offline mode but that disables itself all the time and you have to log in to play.
Disables itself?!? I download the game, set it as offline and that's all.
It's one of the more cumbersome DRM systems because it comes with all those useless bells and whistles.
I think you have a problem with your steam installation, or your computer. I've never encountered nor heard about the problems you speak about, and some sound pretty strange; it's as if you lost the configuration every time, or something. I'd check the properties of your steam folders.
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By any chance do you connect through a single always-on high bandwidth network connection?
Never move between networks?
Steam has all those problems.
Laptop users and people who sometimes lose their net connection hit the problems far far more.
If you have any kind of network connection(say a lan or low bandwidth connection) then steam will decide you don't really want to be in offline mode, kick you out of offline mode and then lock itself up because it can't connect to the steam servers.
or even better- it'll
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When I use offline is to take the games on the laptop on work trips. I do it in case the hotel's connection is down, or something. So it seems to be the opposite situation of what you describe.
Anyway, the having to reset the offline state, having to reenter the password, etc, really seems more like one of those new Windows system folder protection idiocies.
I don't really manage steam so much, but I think the connection related problems you describe may be corrected by just blocking steam on your firewall wh
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I don't really see how it could be a windows folder problem.
"blocking steam on your firewall "
Which is great if I think of this before it locks up because it can't find the steam servers, requiring me to find an open net connection before I can go back to using offline mode.
It's an odd and (one would think) easily fixed minor design fault which leads to a surprising amount of frustration.
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I have to agree with parent. STEAM works pretty flawlessly for me. Online/Offline and on three different computers.
Lately, it works even better, because games can write settings to the cloud. So my latest config settings for some games auto-magically appear at my other home when I log in there. Same with the laptops.
I've actually had my remote home PC in 'offline' mode for steam to play Bioshock or something, and left it in Offline mode ( still playable) while my main PC in the city was online and I could i
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Steam DRM isnt that bad it even got an offline mode when your net connection is down.
Steam have always let you have your software on multiple PC's but only allowed to be logged in at one place.
the steamworks intergration with the save games is going to be interesting tho.
Of all the DRM I've seen Steam is the one least obtrusive I've seen.
It also lets you download a game which you bought on DVD through your net connection if you have registered it with them ala "Supreme Commander 2"
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I buy all of my games on Steam now. I might get a couple from Good Old Games, if I can find some I like.
Off topic: Does anybody know if there's an online store offering System Shock 2 for dow
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With everything that is going on these past few years with DRM, I do not disagree with you whatsoever. More power to you.
This is directed to all Slashdotters, not you. I've said it before, I think we should stop think of PC games as owning them, and treating them as rentals. That's how the companies are treating us, so we should respond in kind. And I don't mean to just roll over and accept it. I mean the following:
Only buy games, new or used, at a rental price-point. When there is a special on Steam like w
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Write to Firaxis and let them know.
I recently bought the complete Civ IV specifically because it has no DRM what-so-ever, I like the game, and want to support further development. When I heard Civ V was going to have DRM like this, I sent a note to Firaxis saying that I certainly wasn't going to be buying the game if it's crippled by DRM.
Let them know that it's backfiring and will actually cost them sales.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Insightful)
Who modded all the "It's just Steam" posts in this discussion flamebait? From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements). I take Steam over Ubisoft's intrusive always-online DRM (with nothing to gain) or SecuROM/StarForce that install hidden kernel drivers in your system any day.
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Insightful)
From all the DRM systems out there, Steam is the least intrusive one and it actually gives you more value to the game (community, in-game browser, archievements).
That's pure fanboy nonsense.
There are many less intrusive DRM systems out there. I've had many games with online activiation DRM systems that ever only showed me a single "activating game once" window that was gone after 5 seconds, never to be seen again.
You complain about DRM systems that install drivers, yet happily install Steam system-wide.
Steam is one of the most intrusive systems out there (forced use of a client, adds a second DRM layer on top of whatever the publisher already has, forced management of game installations, integration into OS, offline mode that wants to go online whenever it feels like it, total dependance on Valve to be able to play games, etc.).
All that community stuff just adds to the burden of the DRM.
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Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Insightful)
Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
I call bullshit on that. I regularly use Steam from school, my apartment, and my parents house and on many different machines. My brother also logs into my account to access my game libarary and vice versa.
Really the only ban is for cheating on VAC secured servers and games. Even if you get banned for cheating, it's still possible to play on non VAC secured games and servers.
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I have never heard anything about this. Can you provide a link or citation other than annecdotes? I have never had an issue with Steam. In fact, I was house sitting for my parents a few weeks ago and when I got bored I installed Steam and purchased Deus Ex for around $10. Since then I've had Steam install the game on all my other computers at home. The only thing missing is a way to synchronize s
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Steam is slightly better than the absolute worst of the DRM systems yes, but it still can take all your games away if you so much as look at it funny. Even SecuROM or StarForce can't do that. If you travel with a laptop, I suggest you buy your games somewhere else. Steam has a tendency to lock accounts that log in from multiple IP addresses. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
Visa is slightly better than the absolute worst of the credit card systems yes, but it still can take all your buying power away if you so much as look at it funny. Even MasterCard or AmericanExpress can't do that. If you travel with a credit card, I suggest you get your card somewhere else. Visa has a tendency to lock accounts that make payments from multiple geographical locations. 'Cause, you know, that's a crime.
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This is a stupid analogy because you can tell your bank you're going to another city, state, country or whatever that you know to be suspicious, but there's no mechanism for doing this with Valve. If I tell my bank (in writing) that I'm going to another country, then they'll avoid locking my account for transactions in that country, even if there's also transactions going on in this one (for example, automatic payments.)
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:4, Insightful)
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Reminds me of some of the arguments used by some people to justify the some of the most egregious of the previous US adminstration's measures.
Basically it boiled down to "It's not at all bad
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Did you read your post?
ramming a stick in my foot is so bad because a piece of glass would have been worse.
Seriously that's your logic.
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"It's just steam."
So it only removes resale rights, allows them to take it should thy choose to, forces you to stay current to play, monitors your play, makes it so only one game at a time can be played.
It drive me up a wall that while I play DrakenSang, my son can't play a different game I paid for. I great leap for me would be making it a game server.
It's not 'just steam'. it's a tool to remove your rights.
Due to the risk, I only bet games on steam that are at least half off. That's the risk/cost ration f
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When a user installs your game, the DRMS server collects information from the customer's computer that uniquely identifies it. The collected information is used in combination with the metadata regarding your executable file to generate a custom binary, that checks that it is running on the user's computer. If the user changes the configuration of their computer such that the CEG checks would fail to identify the computer, the CEG system will automatically generate a new executable file for the user, and update their game installation. These checks occur whenever your game is run, regardless of whether the computer is connected to the Internet or not. In addition to examining the user's computer, the CEG system will detect tampering with the executable file, and will conceal its workings from reverse engineering.
Should still be able to play it while offline, it would only require an internet connection when installing or after changing your hardware.
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Yup, and the beauty of it is that it actually WORKS :D
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my go to game when my internet connection is down.
Mine is Dwarf Fortress. No mouse means I can even play it on the car (better while someone else drives) or while waiting on the airport.
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Steam has an offline mode. You should only have to go online once to activate it.
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I can imagine hardware changes to be a problem but how does it know there are updates without you being online?
I know about the updating the games I have set up as offline, but it notices only when I'm actually online, so I can download the updates. I fail to see the problem.
Either you're offline (or just dont let steam connect), and you get no update notifications, or you're online and connected, in which case you must download the updates, which I would, anyway.
I can see a problem if, for some reason, you
Re:Civ was my offline game (Score:5, Interesting)
thing is that steam is utterly retarded when it comes to network connections.
If there's *any* kind of network, no matter if it's just a point to point between 2 laptops, a local lan with no net connection or anything which looks like a network connection then steam will decide that you don't really want to be in offline mode, obviously you made a mistake when clicking "offline mode" and so it kicks you out of offline mode and freaks out because it can't connect to the steam servers and locks itself up.
Even worse is when it does this while I'm using my edge dongle (very low bandwidth) and it decides that it absolutely positively has to download the 100mb patch for that single player game I was trying to play before it will even think about letting my play it.
If you've never experienced problems with steam then you're on a high bandwidth, high reliability, always-on, unrestricted net connection.
In that situation steam is the best thing since sliced bread.
Otherwise steam has very very real problems and hordes of dedicated fanboys who deny those problems even exist.
"Either you're offline (or just dont let steam connect), and you get no update notifications, or you're online and connected, in which case you must download the updates, which I would, anyway."
This tells me how little thought you've put into this.
I'm on 3 different networks regularly.
1: home, DSL, steam is pretty good on this except when it decides I really really need that massive patch for the game I want to play in single player.
2: university wireless, steam doesn't like this at all since it can't get at the steam servers but there is an active net connection so it decides I don't really want to be in offline mode then locks up because it can't get at the steam servers.
3: wireless dongle when I'm traveling, if I make the mistake of trying to play steam without first pulling out the dongle it will decide I need all the latest patches.... over an edge connection wherever I may be.
this is where steam really goes to shit.
uncommon:
4: I'm on any kind of LAN without a net connection or if my ISP goes down.
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If there's *any* kind of network, no matter if it's just a point to point between 2 laptops, a local lan with no net connection or anything which looks like a network connection then steam will decide that you don't really want to be in offline mode, obviously you made a mistake when clicking "offline mode" and so it kicks you out of offline mode and freaks out because it can't connect to the steam servers and locks itself up.
They fixed that in the new Steam client.
At least the changelog mentions offline mode fixes, and it did work for me in a scenario you describe (network with several boxes and a router but no Net access + offline mode).
No, I'm not a Steam fanboi. I've ran into problems with offline mode in the past, largely the same as yours.
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Because sometime updates take stuff away, or change the game in a manner that isn't fun.
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You can play Steam games in "offline mode". I do so frequently. It works great :)
While I loathe DRM, the Steam DRM is so non-intrusive compared to the competetors that I can live with it just fine. Since I started using Steam a few years ago I have spent more money on games than ever before...
Of all the DRM schemes to use, this is the one I would pick if I had to make a choice as a consumer.
Steamworks is offline friendly. (Score:3, Insightful)
Steamworks on other games like Torchlight just serve to add features, not remove then. In Torchlight it redistribute your savegames. So you can start a game on the Netbook, and wen you get home, continue that game on the Desktop.
I don't know you, but this sounds like a good feature to have in Civi.
And you can play Torchlight offline. The whole Steam thing can run offline.
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The pirated version will allow to play without internet connection ;)
IIRC, you can also put steam in "offline mode" and then play without internet connection. But to do that you must be logged in the first place, so it's only a valid method when you're planning ahead of time to do that. If your ISP/router/whatever goes down you're fubared.
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Offline mode. You have to be online on Steam to download the damn thing in the first place, but once it's installed you just set it to offline mode and play away. It won't stay like that forever, but are you seriously telling me that you won't be online with Steam running in the background (even if just for a minute) for more than about 30/60/90 days?
I don't buy games that have stupid DRM because I do play offline, but I've spend hundreds of pounds on Steam lately because their system is the only one that
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"It takes literally minutes to reinstall 9Gb of game from a Steam Backup if you suddenly get the urge to play it again, or you can redownload it if you lose your backup."
Too bad those minutes are around 300-400.. At least, that's my experience (games with many small files kill Steam restore - even on SSD)
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I call bullshit of the highest order.
I have recently deinstalled and reinstalled from backup about 7-8 games, totalling Gigabytes of data with 1000's of files and it never took more than a handful of minutes (and most of that was churning to load the setup program into memory before it actually did anything). This is not a top-of-the-range laptop by any means, bog-standard cheap 320Gb hard drive. Its filesystems were made two years ago and haven't been defragged etc. *EVER* and it was going from one parti
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Totally offtopic moderation curiosity, feel free to ignore.
Several similar posts in this thread, saying essentially "I use steam offline and had no problem with it" have been simultaneously modded exactly once as flamebait. I suspect it's the finest example I've yet seen of a single guy using the "-1 disagree" mod with his entire pool of modpoints. :)
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Karma may a bitch, but meta-moderation is a poxy whore with a truncheon. He'll get his.
What, it start with Steamworks? (Score:5, Funny)
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My first thought was: Steam tech in Civ? What'll they think of next? Horseback Riding?
Sid Meier, deity ; ). (Score:2)
But but ...
I still haven't won Civ 3 C on deity level yet.
The C5 graphics/movies look stunning, but multiplayer Civ, which I've never tried in years of playing, seems like an extremely tedious business.
I turn off "see friendly moves" on large maps because i think the AI's turn takes to long.
Imagine having to wait for two (or five) human players. And I tend to play "one more turn" for about ten hours occasionally.
Any experienced online Civ players care to explain how that works? Do you play one turn per day
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Achievement: (Score:4, Funny)
Your phalanx unit successfully defends against an attack from an enemy battleship.
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That's actually rather normal. The phalanx unit hunkers down, digs foxholes and caves. Good luck mr. battleship.
(the problem of course being how the phalanx ends up sinking the battleship)
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while pounding away at the cliffs, one of the big guns overheats and jams, the shell in the chamber explodes setting off a chain reaction that sinks the ship
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Or of course a night insertion by the phalanx special forces team that scales up the battleship with knives between their teeth and murder in their eyes.
The rest is history.
shameful (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, here's to the first game in the Civ series I don't buy.
I second that (Score:4, Informative)
Civ 5 was going to be my first PC game purchased in literally years (besides the humble indie bundle [wolfire.com], who could pass that up? But I'm talking about going to a store and buying a box.) But I am diametrically opposed to Steam's attack on First Sale law, and will not purchase any game which uses Steam again. I already went through it with Half-Life 2; I did not find any of the mods worth playing, so to me the game has zero replay value, and I would like to re-sell it, but I can't, even though I bought it on a disc at the store. Just say no to Steam. I will not be paying for Civ 5.
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Do not forget that steamworks DRM is also included on boxed copies.
Re:I second that (Score:4, Informative)
Do not forget that steamworks DRM is also included on boxed copies.
What part of my story about buying Half-Life 2 in a store and not being able to resell it led you to believe that I would not understand that the DRM was included with boxed copies as well? The truly abusive thing about Steam to me is that you can't even play a backup without installing and updating Steam. Steam 'backups' are not backups because they are not playable. So I can't sell it, and I can't play it? What the heck did I pay for? Shelf space? Die, Valve, Die.
Re:I second that (Score:5, Informative)
Correct me if I am wrong but I think steam lets you gift your games to other users so what is stoping you from doing that?
This:
In other words, Valve does not recognize your right to sell (or give away) a used toaster. Personally, I know people without a toaster, who would appreciate it if I wrapped mine up and gave it to them, even though it is lame. Steam was designed to prevent you from exercising your First Sale rights, period, the end. All this digital download shit is an incentive to the user to give away their rights. It's about preventing resale first, and about selling you games second.
Good move (Score:3, Insightful)
Good move, kudos to Sid and company for ignoring the idiotic knee jerk reactions seen on some message boards I won't mention. Requiring occasional (I have gone at least 2 weeks before) access back to Steam as opposed to having to keep track of some number of CD's _and_ being able to have the game installed on multiple PC's is a net positive IMNHO. The improved matchmaking sounds like icing on the cake.
Re: (Score:2)
I know I personally bought 2 copies of Civ IV, I have no idea where my copy of Civ III is, and I like playing older games. Steam = much easier access to my games. That may or may not be true for everyone, but then again not everyone is married to compulsive organizer who puts things where they make sense for her but are incomprehensible for me.
How long will it last (Score:5, Insightful)
I still play Civilization Call to Power. It is my all time favorite addiction. I don't pull it out often because when I do I can easily play all night and not even realize that dawn has arrived. But I do pull it out occasionally and I'm glad I can play it without worrying about whether the company will still let me.
I guess I'm bad for the games industry by enjoying a game that's so old, but I won't even contemplate buying a game with DRM because I just don't trust that I'd be able to play it long after it stops being the hit new thing.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
but I won't even contemplate buying a game with DRM because I just don't trust that I'd be able to play it long after it stops being the hit new thing.
You do know [wikipedia.org] Valve has promised to patch around Steam authentication if the shit ever does hit the fan?
USE STEAM BEFORE SLAGGING IT OFF (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously
Everyone who is slagging off steam, try it before you complain.
I have had ZERO problems with steam, before I was a sceptic and now I am a convert.
The auto-patching auto-updating goodness is worth its weight in gold.
Never had a problem playing offline or whatever.
Rebuild a PC? no issue, unlimited re-downloads, much easier to kick off steam and walk away than dig out masses of discs, then go through hours or hunt and patch, etc.
Games are CHEAP esp if you bag them on sale (GTA4 for 7 bucks USD, Op. Flashpoint Dragon Rising for 5 bucks etc.)
Put it this way: its so good and convenient that I buy games (on sale of course lol) that I can pirate in front of me. I see the pirate bay / rapidshare / usenet link in front of me at the same time as a steam sale. Guess who wins 10/10.
Steam: DRM done right - non intrusive, value added (auto patching, friends lists/voice/matchmaking etc., forget about juggling masses of CDs and cases), cheaper than boxed retail.
If you want to sell a used game then OK you are SOTL but thats the bargain you are making.
Re: (Score:2)
You missed the point.
DRM only serves to remove your right. Right to resale, right to do what you want with the game. It also puts you in a position of assuming you are guilty of a crime until you prove otherwise. It also becomes a nightmare is someone gets into your account.
Steam will ebcome standarde,and then there won't be the choice to not use it if you want to game.
It's nice for people like you who are happy to be their bitch in exchange for convenience, but for people who actually want consumers to hav
Re: (Score:2)
Until your post.
Unlike you, I have had non-zero problems with steam. I had a pretty shitty connection at the time, and several times the damn steam client wouldn't let me play CS:Source offline. I'm really not sure why, I didn't troubleshoot it, that's not why I bought the game. But that was years ago, things may be better now. I wouldn't know, I've never gone back.
It very well may be DRM "done right" or the best example of D
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
IMHO, Civ 4 is a much, much better game than Civ 3, independent of graphics, world geometry, or changes to technology trees. It introduces a bunch of new ideas, and it takes a bunch of ideas that were implemented in a half-baked way in 3 and actually makes them good.
YMMV.