Gaming Without a Safety Blanket 79
Hugh Pickens writes "IGN has an interesting interview with Tom Bissell, author of the recently published Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter, in which Bissell uses his experience in investigative journalism and as a war correspondent to describe his years playing games. Bissell talks about the difficulties in describing gameplay to non-gamers. 'A lot of casual games sort of submerge their storytelling to an almost subliminal level while upping the gameplay sophistication,' says Bissell. 'Writing about pure gameplay is tough. ... I say in the book that's one of the most suspect things about the form; a game with [an] incredibly dopey story but a really compelling mechanical set of resonances can still be a great game. I don't know if there's really a way to talk about that with people who aren't sold on the form.' Bissell adds that it's easier for many to find meaning in the more traditional delivery systems of entertainment and compares writing about games to the difficulty in describing rock & roll to an older generation. Bissell's background as a war correspondent, traveling to regions of conflict, has also translated into the games he likes."
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A story is not an essential part of a video game at all. Sure, it is for RPGs, but you can subsist entirely off of gameplay with arcade games.
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Don't forget FPS!
Quake had no story and took the gaming world by storm.
Re:That can be true for anything (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem with the games market is that graphics and branding are ultimately what sells games and until the audience can become more sophisticated, the vast majority games never will.
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Yes but standards change, the punters keep demanding more and these days a FPS game with no story, just violence and the occasional puzzle would likely be panned by critics and economically flop.
Problem with the games market is that graphics and branding are ultimately what sells games and until the audience can become more sophisticated, the vast majority games never will.
TF2.
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AVID TF2 player here (MPC/PCG server) (Score:2)
The gameplay, like C&C renegade (one of my favorite, if short lived, team FPS games), is AWESOME.
The graphics? Like C&C renegade was back then, are way past their prime. TF2 has been out for like 5 years. If they did nothing, but rebuild the engine the game sits on, and updated models and texturing, they'd have another hit. I'd re-buy it in a heart beat.
Be mindful that it doesn't mean I don't like playing it. Quite the opposite:
I can snipe w/ the best of them when on at least a mediocre
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Quake had no story and took the gaming world by storm.
Quake's story [wikipedia.org] was largely irrelevant, but it was there.
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Well, I must admit that did a hell-of-a-job conceiling that story...
Very well done.
(or did someone make something up and put it up on Wikipedia? We'll never know now :( )
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Horsefeathers.... Nobody reads the README files...
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A good RPG should stand on its gameplay, not the story. For that matter, there are few RPGs that have a decent story by any measure. It's the planning and execution of battles that really makes an RPG. I'd use Nocturne as an example. The constant churn of demons that make up your party, each with different strengths, really keeps the gameplay compelling. The story itself has an interesting premise, but it's really poorly developed. It was the gameplay that kept me going for 90 hours. If I want a good
Re:That can be true for anything (Score:4, Insightful)
And if I want good gameplay I'll go out and play a sport.
Sorry, but I *hate* that "read a book" phrase. Gaming is what it is due to the relationship between all its components, it's not merely about gameplay just as it's not merely about graphics or storytelling.
Re:That can be true for anything (Score:5, Insightful)
A better analogy would be a movie with an amazing story but really bad special effects. The core of a game is its gameplay, the story is just there to help it along. The core of a movie is the story, the special effects are just there to help it along.
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Can't be, he said amazing story.
Jesus Wept. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. This is what is wrong with games today. This guy gets it.
Re:Jesus Wept. (Score:5, Insightful)
Whilst that sort of display is cringeworthy, AC 2 was one of the better games I've played in ages.
It had lots of action, required tactical thinking from time to time, looked amazing, minor puzzle elements, immersive gameplay, extras (stupid stuff to collect) that prolong it's appeal somewhat....
I dunno, maybe the attitude there is all wrong, but AC is to me a good example of a game that got it pretty damn right.
Re:Jesus Wept. (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually I'm not sure it is cringeworthy after all.
I *do* like airborne assassinations....
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Assassin's creed is Prince of persia in different clothing with some modifications, AC1 was horrible. AC2 was what AC1 should have been. But AC and PoP have a lot of cross over.
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I *do* like airborne assassinations....
But is that something you would say - or would enjoying explaining - to a less receptive audience than the gamer's forum on Slashdot?
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>>>AC-2 had lots of action, required tactical thinking from time to time, looked amazing, minor puzzle elements, immersive gameplay, extras (stupid stuff to collect) that prolong it's appeal somewhat.... I dunno, maybe the attitude there is all wrong, but AC is to me a good example of a game that got it pretty damn right.
>>>
Speaking as a gamer since 1977 - sounds boring.
POINT: One person's masterpiece is another person's tradein.
For me a near-perfect game example would be Zelda Ocarina of
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90% of the time, I play games for the story. Assuming the controls don't suck, if a game has a good story with good pacing, I'll play it through.
But the other 10% of the time, I just want fun game mechanics. That's anything from Bejeweled to Prototype to Flower.
So he's right that people do get excited about fun game mechanics... And he's using that as best he can.
*snore* (Score:3, Insightful)
Bissell talks about the difficulties in describing gameplay to non-gamers. 'A lot of casual games sort of submerge their storytelling to an almost subliminal level while upping the gameplay sophistication,'
My eyes glazed over and my brain went elsewhere. Kind of like when someone really excited about gaming starts to ramble on about it.
My gaming serves a purpose for me - take my brain elsewhere for a while. Why do I expect that non-gamers should be able to relate to a game they don't play themselves? Even if they did play the same game, most things we relate to each other are going to be the same. Do we start a conversation where most responses are going to be "me too"?
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Do we start a conversation where most responses are going to be "me too"?
If we let that happen then AOL will have won.
Re:*snore* (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, why should you care about expressing anything verbally. In fact, when I read your comment, my eyes glazed over and my brain went elsewhere. Kind of like when someone who doesn't care one bit about something tries to explain to people who actually do care why their interests are dull and boring just because they don't get it.
Seriously, why is this pure expression of stupidity modded "insightful"? It doesn't have anything to say, apart from "I don't have any thoughts of my own, and I don't want any, and I don't want to listen to someone who has".
I've read a few chapters of the book, and it's pretty good.
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why is this pure expression of stupidity modded "insightful"? It doesn't have anything to say, apart from "I don't have any thoughts of my own, and I don't want any, and I don't want to listen to someone who has".
It actually says "I don't have any thoughts of my own, and I don't want any, and I don't want to listen to someone who has and I have mod points" ;-)
MOD WARS!!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, why is this pure expression of stupidity modded "insightful"? It doesn't have anything to say, apart from "I don't have any thoughts of my own, and I don't want any, and I don't want to listen to someone who has".
Right now, at least, his post is modded "3: Insightful" and yours is modded "4: Insightful" -- you're winning!!
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playing a few games here and there, but as soon as I read [...] My eyes glazed over and my brain went elsewhere. [...] My gaming serves a purpose for me - take my brain elsewhere for a while.
Please, feel free to take your brain elsewhere for a while next time you feel like writing a tl;dr version of tl;dr.
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That being said, I still think that someone should go and write the book that I imagined having been written in my previous post.
"gameplay" (Score:2)
Re:"gameplay": replace with 'horse', adjust to fit (Score:5, Funny)
I hate this word. Is it one word? Is it two? Who knows. But it's one of the few words we have to describe the stuff that goes on while you are playing a game. We need something better, or we need some dictionary to step up and add it.
horseplay - definition of horseplay by the Free Online Dictionary ... ...
frolic, gambol, romp, caper, play - gay or light-hearted recreational activity for diversion or amusement; "it was all done in play"; "their frolic in the
www.thefreedictionary.com/horseplay
To answer your conundrum: Gameplay is like horseplay, but less gay.
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Not to be confused with _ponyplay_!
Seriously.
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"Gameplay" is simply a word for the experience one has when playing a game. The more technical term for what forms that experience would be "game mechanic", "plot", "level structure", "controls", etc.
The OregonLive image caption (Score:3, Interesting)
Love the caption on the OregonLive image:
Tom Bissell manipulates the controller while playing "Flower," a mellow video game his nieces enjoy.
Ah... right, yeah, his "nieces."
Gaming is like dancing (Score:5, Interesting)
Gaming is like dancing [with your thumbs]. A lot of the mechanics are shared between games. A large part of the exhilaration is managing to get the end of a game without screwing up terribly. It's more nerdy (and possibly annoying) to some because the dance partner is a computer (more accurately, it's the game developers through a computer). It leads to the same sort of frustration that Garry Kasparov expressed about Deep Blue because many are more inclined to see the challenge presented as intended to remove the fun of the game. While I wouldn't go as far as to say that such a point never holds true (ie, there is such a thing as a game that's unreasonably hard), the challenge of a game forces gamers to improve which extends the life-long enjoyment of gaming. In the end, it's this attribute that keeps people interested in the long-term.
"We are merely sprites that dance at the beck and call of our button pressing overlord."
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Funny, but I always thought that the screwing will end the game was a given and the dancing was just some pre-screwing entertainment. In the end, the dancing merely was a g
The key (Score:3, Interesting)
There are way too many games that advertise and pride themselves on the quality of their hitboxes (better headshots!), the intricacies of their scoring systems (show everyone how well you can twitch!) and their rewards for being skilled with violence (only ten more kills before I unlock the headraper 3000!). Even worse is when the amount of nudity or sex in a game is treated like some sort of sacred phenomenon like in God of War.
I wait patiently for more games like braid, heavy rain, the monkey islands remakes or portal, although they may not all have the most amazing stories, they push the capabilities of the medium or are rewarding because of the way they make you think, their humor or their beautiful art style.
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One of the major hurdles gaming as an entertainment medium needs to overcome before it is taken as seriously as movies, theater and such by more than its major demographic is the pandering to the immature teenage obsession with sex and violence.
Two words: "Twilight" and "Transformers".
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One of the major hurdles gaming as an entertainment medium needs to overcome before it is taken as seriously as movies, theater and such by more than its major demographic is the pandering to the immature teenage obsession with sex and violence.
You forgot the only metric that matters: money. Games are there.
Re:The key (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to the mature obsession with sex and violence that is pandered by movies, theater and such?
Hollywood panders to obsession with violence. European "art" films pander to obsession with sex. Some pander to both. And how could they not? Apart from titillating the senses, almost all human behaviour is driven by either lust or survival instinct; you can't have drama without these elements. If anything, having a greater focus on sex and sexuality in games would allow far greater storylines with better rounded characters, not to mention enable all kinds of dramatic options in both conflict and its resolution.
You aren't going to find any medium where sex and violence aren't at the central focus, because they are the focus of human existence.
God of War is very tame and nice compared the original Greek myths. What should they had done, copied Disney's Hercules?
Beautiful art style, yes... Care to guess which two subjects have been the main focus of art from the very first cave paintings to modern-day painters, sculptors and such? And, for that matter, the subject matter of most humour? Or pretty much every story?
Games are slowly but surely moving from being kid's toys into mainstream entertainment, and that means they're going to get a lot more sex to go with the violence. You can dislike it, but it's what all mainstream entertainment has been made of for the duration of entire human history, and prehistory too. And I, for one, am just fine with that.
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Movies find public approval over video games because for every exploitative film in a given year, there are just as many if not more artsy films and movies to satisy every type of moviegoer. Until videogames get an even distribution of exploitative or pandering games to th
Not "the" key, "a" key, perhaps. (Score:3, Insightful)
For every "Casablanca", there are 10 "Dude, Where's My Car?"s, "Grandma Got Her Funk Back"s and "Under Siege 2: Dark Territory"s.
For every "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" there are 10 "Harold & Kumar"s, "Cheech & Chong"s and "American Pie 3"s.
Similarly, for every "Portal", "Braid" or "Monkey Island" there are numerous generic first person shooters where yo
But pure gameplay IS story telling! (Score:2)
There is no actual difference between story telling and gameplay. In that they are both experiences with the exact same structure (This one [radiantempire.com]). Else it would not be fun.
Only that one is formed by defining generalized laws that allow movement inside the fun area, while the other is pre-scripted to the mindset of the writer.
The whole discussion about games “lacking stories” is pointless. Games are a generalization of pretty much everything we do for fun. Films, stories, art, sports, interesting cont
Sheesh.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I just want to play a game like that! Is there any around?
You mean, aside from actual roguelikes?
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It's modern Cowboys and Indians (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was a child we used to play "Cowboys and Indians". The kids would break into two groups, one the cowboys, the other Indians. It was by definition roll playing with simulated violence. There were rules; for example, the cowboys had guns and the Indians had stealth. Rules and parameters were establish and followed, if not, "NO FAIR...or YOU CHEATED" were declared.
Modern computer gaming, such as the First Person Shooter, (FPS), is an extension of this. In fact, if you can recall being a child and the various imaginary games that children play, I.E. Pirates, Fortress, Capture the Flag, Tag and so on, modern gaming is an extension of these into a modern format with the use of computer technology. You can think of your computer as both a playground and a referee. Of course it's highly evolved and segued into genres, but if one distills it down to a non "gamer" essence, I think one could find a frame of reference based in the beginning of "play" its self.
Wow, (mod up) (Score:2)
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When I was a child we used to play "Cowboys and Indians." It was by definition roll playing with simulated violence.
Simulated at a very high level of abstraction - ham-bone theatric - and arguably less violent - and far less sadistic - than the conventions of a Warner Brothers cartoon.
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A Warner Brothers cartoon smacked of adult influences I don't think out of malice or neglect, but from the fact that most households were of one television at the time. There, entire families would hunker about their television akin to a primal family about the campfire.
Hence one would find the humor skewed up a notch or two above what might suffice for a child, not necessarily trying to appeal to a larger audience, but to appease them. Suffering through a child's program as an adult shouldn't be a painful
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None of the classic Warner Brothers cartoons were made for TV. They were made to be shown as short subjects before the main feature at movie theatres, and were written that way because people of all ages went the movies.
Like Country music line dancing (Score:1)
"a game with [an] incredibly dopey story but a really compelling mechanical set of resonances can still be a great game."
Story vs gameplay (Score:2)
'Writing about pure gameplay is tough. ... I say in the book that's one of the most suspect things about the form; a game with [an] incredibly dopey story but a really compelling mechanical set of resonances can still be a great game. I don't know if there's really a way to talk about that with people who aren't sold on the form.'
Yes, this is exactly the problem, trying to describe games in the wrong terms and evaluate them in the wrong framework. We all probably agree that great games are great due to game
A more comprehensible metaphor (Score:1)