Tensions Rise Between Gamers and Game Companies Over DRM 447
Tootech recommends an article at the Technology Review about the intensifying struggle between gamers and publishers over intrusive DRM methods, a topic brought once more to the forefront by Ubisoft's decision not to use their controversial always-connected DRM for upcoming RTS RUSE, opting instead for Steamworks. Quoting:
"Ultimately, Schober says, companies are moving toward a model where hackers wouldn't just have to break through protections on a game, they'd also have to crack company servers. The unfortunate consequence, he says, is that it's getting more difficult for legitimate gamers to use and keep the products they buy. But there are alternatives to DRM in the works as well. The IEEE Standards Association, which develops industry standards for a variety of technologies, is working to define 'digital personal property.' The goal, says Paul Sweazey, who heads the organization's working group, is to restore some of the qualities of physical property — making it possible to lend or resell digital property. Sweazey stresses that the group just started meeting, but he explains that the idea is to sell games and other pieces of software in two parts — an encrypted file and a 'play key' that allows it to be used. The play key could be stored in an online bank run by any organization, and could be accessed through a URL. To share the product, the player would simply share the URL."
Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Interesting)
continue moving away from PC games as a whole (since the console market is somewhat more secure
The sad, slow, and painful death of PC gaming.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the big names go away and leave the PC gaming industry, that would be good for PC gaming as a whole. We would see indies take over and fill the vacuum with original IP, and not just another FPS sequel.
Piracy? NWN1 did something which did well at stopping piracy in the long term, and that was eventually chucking the CD-ROM DRM and requiring a valid and unique CD key to play multiplayer. No matter what, the pirates will be cracking the game anyway, might as well just keep them from using network services which legit players would use. This is a simple DRM mechanism, and it does an excellent job long term.
Already, the big names treat the PC platform like crap. Might as well just show them the door, let them have the uber locked down console market, and let Blizzard, ID, and indies with something original to write take over.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
Already, the big names treat the PC platform like crap. Might as well just show them the door, let them have the uber locked down console market, and let Blizzard, ID, and indies with something original to write take over.
Blizzard? I'm not sure they really deserve that anymore. Yes, they create good games still but think of some of the recent annoyances.
no LAN play for SC2... SC2 is linked to one and only one battle.net account ever (effectively getting rid of resale and eliminating multiple people being able to play online via one copy of the game)... bnetd. etc
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're forgetting the worst thing Blizzard is currently doing. Region locking. Someone with a US copy of SC2 simply cannot play with a friend in Europe as each copy is region locked to one online server. It's destroying the international pro-gaming scene which is what Starcraft is meant to be all about.
The reason they do this region locking isn't to prevent piracy either. It's so they can charge a different price in different regions. Maximising short term profits at the expense of pro-players support.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
What's worse is that they're not even providing all languages in all regions. Living in South Korea, yet not being fluent in Korea means I can choose a low-ping version I don't really understand, or a high ping version I understand. Multiple e-mails to blizzard resulted in a round around and a suggestion I just buy a copy so that I can contribute to some suggestion thread to recommend they smarten the hell up. No. Fuck you Blizzard.
You have completely and utterly gone to shit and should be embarrassed of what you've become.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, it's nothing new, and nothing unique to Blizzard. Back in '99, I moved from one continent to another, and brought with me my copy of Baldur's Gate. When I bought the "Tales of the Sword Coast", it would not work on my copy, because it was region locked. I had to go to napster to find an illegal copy of it. Bioware support refused to replace either of my copies -- they wanted me to re-buy the software because I had moved.
That's the true face of region locking.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Interesting)
i hear ya
recently LAN thing backfired quite nicely - there was a tournament at gamerscom or whatever that was called and battle.net lagged few times not to mention dropped connections in a best of 3 showmatch. There were thousands of people watching it live and via internet and players were lagging and dropping. Epic F.A.I.L.
I read the forums from time to time and I really hate how when some rather clueless casual player asks '- there is only one profile, how can i share it with my brother?' fanboys counted in dozens rush in to inform him he's being cheap and should fork out 60 bucks for his brother too, because sc2 is the best thing since sliced bread. It doesn't matter that these brothers have only 1 pc.
Recently blizzard announced that 1st name change is free (because many people were not aware of permanence of their handle and typed some junk to play, just like in sc1 where you could have multiple nicknames), but they will charge later. Price is unknown but to charge few bucks for running an sql oneliner? Seriously?
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they refuted that rumor already, besides even if it was true, pro players would have to train in a high lag environment and then play tournaments with low lag which wouldn't make any sense.
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Right.If a product has DRM,I don't buy.Hit the bastards in their pocket book,they'll learn REAL FAST.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes. They'll learn to blame poor sales on piracy and use that to justify more DRM, copyright lobbyists, etc. etc.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:4, Insightful)
If the big names go away and leave the PC gaming industry, that would be good for PC gaming as a whole. We would see indies take over and fill the vacuum with original IP, and not just another FPS sequel.
What you will get is a flood of low budget - low risk - casual games.
Already, the big names treat the PC platform like crap
The big names have treated the single player PC gamer rather well of late: Bioshock, Dragon Age, Fallout, Mass Effect, etc.
As for iD, whatever the merits of Carmack's game engines, he hasn't released a genuinely innovative or significant PC game in the last ten years.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah and I seriously disagree with Dragon Age being a console port. I've played both PC and PS3 versions, and the PC version is head and shoulders the better platform. The console versions lack some features (the "tactical camera", "move here" orders, and orders to multiple party members in a single pause), and the PC version has nothing holding it back. The console ports are still playable, they're just more frustrating because of the imperfect interface.
OTOH, Fallout 3 might not be a port, but a couple small things sort of give it the feel of having mild consolitis. Still a fun game though.
More humble bundle? (Score:2)
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And I just can't see everyone playing FPS/RTS on controllers, or everyone stopping playing FPS/RTS, or everyone buying keyboards and mice for their consoles.. And it's hard to imagi
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trusted hardware is incredibly old, it's not "around the corner", it's been here for years. However, it's only for enterprise, because if you actually had trusted platform enabled on your PC by default there'd be antitrust issues and to say heads would roll is an understatement. It will never happen.
plenty of consoles can and do have keyboards and mice, because they use USB now. why is this some magic surprise? The issue is that consoles have nowhere near the graphics capability of a PC, so adding a keyboar
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:4, Insightful)
Pretty unlikely, since PCs have both larger installed base and far lower cost of development than any console. They are also technologically superior, so the most ambitious games - especially complex simulators and strategy games - simply can't be done on anything else.
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console market more secure? hahahahha.
you do realize that pc gaming and console gaming really isn't that different as a concept, right?
trying to say that a console business is a bigger industry or whatnot is just looking at apples and oranges, because the business itself is not similar.
Consoles are 100% drm by design.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget:
DRM writers can write drivers; they can be cracked.
DRM writers can use hardware dongles; they can be virtualized.
DRM writers can demand use of servers; the servers can be emulated.
DRM writers can download items in pieces; the chunks can be put together via snapshots of a filesystem and memory.
For every item, there is a counter. Every dime spent on more Draconian DRM means a dime less spent on making the game suck less. And to me, some of the big PC companies which sell DRM with a game attached needs to start spending their cash on quality of releases, not new DRM schemes which will get cracked anyway.
Re:Is he bloody stupid? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's one more serious oft-overlooked problem with DRM. For every copy of DRM'd software they sell they spend money every time somebody calls or emails with an activation problem. There's an on-going cost of maintaining servers and software to keep giving permission for installs. Basically, over time, their profits are getting eaten away by their own customer service. Sadly I think it'll take a couple of years before anybody realizes the problem with this. Heh.
Not just that (Score:3, Insightful)
DRM also costs money in and of itself. If it is your own, you pay someone to develop it. If it is third party, you pay a per copy license fee. Either way you pay someone to implement it in the game. The more complex and tricky the DRM, the harder the implementation. Some extreme ones, like the Cubase protection, does dongle checks on almost every operation, even opening menus. Lots of extra coding to make that happen.
Also of course if the DRM is invasive, it may cost sales. I won't buy Ubisoft titles with t
Yes (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately, many publishers really ARE stupid when it comes to DRM. They think it is a fight they can win. Also they get focus on the wrong thing. They want to reduce piracy at any cost, rather than focusing on increasing sales, which is what matters.
Even if you could make a 100% uncrackable DRM it wouldn't be useful is said DRM was so invasive that nobody was willing to purchase you game. You've have stopped piracy, but killed sales. It would be like a store so determined to eliminate shoplifting that they sealed all exits except one and had armed guards strip search all customers and employees. It'd probably work but nobody would shop there so in the end it would be worse than doing nothing at all.
I'm quite sure the reason Ubisoft is changing is because their DRM has probably cost them sales, as well as costing a good deal of money to administer. I know I'm two of the sales they lost. I was planning on getting Assassin's Creed 2, since it looked like the first one but with the annoyances taken out. Also Settlers 7 looked interesting. After hearing about the DRM, I wrote them off. I didn't pirate them, they've been cracked despite the "server side processing" shit, I simply played other games. There's no lack of good games out there, I lack the time to play them all so if they want to be assholes that's fine, I'll just spend money elsewhere.
What publishers need to concentrate on is DRM that is non-invasive. I'm not saying DRM is worthless, I'm sure there are people who are cheap and won't pay if they can easily get away with it, but you want to make it so that the DRM doesn't hurt legit users, but actually helps them. Steam is a good example in that regard. If you get a Steamworks protected game, it is to your benefit not to crack it. Reason is when you register it on Steam you get all updates automatically from good servers, and you can redownload it as you please, again from fast servers. It actually improves your experience, makes things easier. So even if someone doesn't care about doing the right thing, the easy of use, their laziness, can convince them to pay.
If companies wise up and start focusing on increasing sales, by making things better for legit users, rather than trying to decrease piracy, I think it'll go a long way.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yea, except when you want to play real classics like Independence War, or Myst.
Good luck with that.
(it's still a great service, but their 100% compatibility statement is garbage)
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Steam is just more drm bullshit in my opinion.
I am voting with my wallet. DRM in any form, no sale.
When will these pea brains figure this out. I can just as easil
Re:No DRM for me (Score:4, Informative)
Direct2Drive takes forever to get games patched with the rest of the community.
STALKER comes to mind. For over a year I was stuck with 1.0005 thanks to D2D refusing to get off their asses and demand a patch for digital distribution customers so they could be patched with the rest of the world at 1.0006 (which was OFFICIAL and yet D2D said it wasn't an official patch at all.) Steam had 1.0006. D2D didn't.
I got my $15 refunded and bought the physical disc for $9.99. Patched to 1.0006 and haven't looked at D2D since.
Re:No DRM for me (Score:5, Informative)
3. Can I backup games downloaded from GOG.com? Yes you can, and as a matter of fact we strongly recommend you do so - backing up your stuff is a very good habit, you know? Because our games are DRM-free, as soon as you download the setup file, you can back it up on a DVD or your external hard drive without hassle. Plus, as our installers are wrapped in nice exe files, you can save them in one folder and create a nice local backup of your games library! And if you forgot to backup your purchased games, fear not. You can always re-download them from our website for free - see below for more info. Sure, downloading will take a little bit longer than launching an installer from your backup disc, but that's no big deal.
4. Can I re-download my purchased games? Is there a limit to the number of re-downloads? You can always re-download games bought at GOG.com via the "My account" page. Also, there is no limit to the number of re-downloads, but please remember that you're not allowed to share your GOG.com account with other users as only you are entitled to download games from your account.
Also if you have more than one computer they don't have a problem with that either:
9. Can I install one game both on my laptop and desktop PC at home? Yes. We are not limiting the number of installations or re-installations as long as you are installing your purchased game on PCs in your household. So yeah, if you've got a render-farm in the basement, you might actually break the world record for the number of legal Fallout installations in one household. However, if you think about installing your game on a friend's PC or sharing it with others then please don't do it, okay?
GOG using the best copy protection evah (Score:3, Funny)
However, if you think about installing your game on a friend's PC or sharing it with others then please don't do it, okay?
(emphasis added)
..., well, it works for me
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Good Example: GTA4 (Score:5, Insightful)
Overreaching DRM and poorly written interfaces upon interfaces are the death knell for PC gaming. I am sorry, but they just keep getting worse, and worse and worse. Albeit the gaming experiences might be improving, the overall software experience is absolutely terrible. The amount of disneylandish crap pc game devs are pumping into games to mimic the consoles is absolutely infuriating, and doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I'll say it. I love PC gaming, but it is definately an industry that will die if they don't all get together and streamline some of the bullshit. Steam is the closest thing we have, albeit still is one more interface you have to use to get to another interface to start/load/join a game.
Back to Q3A and CS 1.6.
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Re:Good Example: GTA4 (Score:5, Insightful)
Long term, I see Steam as the big rival to iTunes. I think they'll eventually start to carry movies, and eventually music too.
And as I've said before, I don't think PC gaming will ever have a chance to die. The line between consoles + TVs and PCs + monitors is very fuzzy even today (the XBOX and XBOX360 are already basically x86 PCs running Windows 2000), and in five or ten years it will disappear completely.
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There are some games where Steam can be a real pain in the ass, like in GTA4. You already have to be logged into both Rockstar Social Club AND Games For Windows Live; if you buy the Steam version, you literally have to log into three separate DRM systems to play the damn game.
Also, Steam is somewhat scary to me because I wonder what'll happen to my game collection should Valve eventually go out of buisiness or shut down steam (probably not in the near future, but it could very well happen eventually). I'
Re:Good Example: GTA4 (Score:5, Insightful)
To reword it into something more witty...
Detractors look at Steam, and see the DRM, resource usage and potential spyware.
Advocates look at Steam, and see the Digital Distribution, community features, automatic updates, and synchronized saves.
It's a matter of which seems more important to you, and I, for one, see the (relatively minor) DRM as worth the other features.
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Advocates look at Steam, and see the Digital Distribution, community features, automatic updates, and synchronized saves.
Don't forget, detractors also look at the automatic updates bit. Valve has seriously broken their games plenty of times -- in the old days, people would've reverted the patch and got on with things. Now they're forced to wait days or weeks for a fix.
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It's not a replacement for a brick and mortar store. At the store I can get a refund or at least credit towards a different game; steam? Tough shit because you're obviously a pirate or cheap stake that has already finished the game if you're asking such a thing.
When I asked for a refund because the game I bought that day was crashing on startup they re-directed me to this [steampowered.com].
The fuck? Don't w
Re:Good Example: GTA4 (Score:4, Informative)
It's not a replacement for a brick and mortar store. At the store I can get a refund or at least credit towards a different game; steam? .
Which store is this? I'm not aware of any store that will give refunds or store credit for a PC game unless it's still shrink wrapped.
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At any rate... there is something you can do. Buy your games with a credit card, and if you feel like Valve has screwed you over, call the card company and cancel the payment. It's called a "charge back" and people who know about it do it constantly to software companies. At least one developer/publisher I worked at allocated a strong percentage of their income for
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Tell them that according to the EULA they're obligated to give you a full refund.
Whether or not it's true is irrelevant - nobody reads the damn things.
Re:Good Example: GTA4 (Score:4, Informative)
Great idea brain genius, then you lose your entire account. It's in the ToS READ IT.
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Re:Good Example: GTA4 (Score:4, Informative)
And as I've said before, I don't think PC gaming will ever have a chance to die. The line between consoles + TVs and PCs + monitors is very fuzzy even today (the XBOX and XBOX360 are already basically x86 PCs running Windows 2000), and in five or ten years it will disappear completely.
Well, other than the fact the XBox 360 is PowerPC and not x86, I agree with you.
Consumer protection laws don't work with Steam (Score:3, Informative)
In countries where there are real consumer protection laws (pretty much all developed countries but the US), if you buy a game in a store and it doesn't work in your machine, you can easilly go back and get a refund (in the UK the magic words are "Not fit for purpose" and "Trading standards").
However, it's almost impossible to have your consumer rights respected by an online trader, especially one not based in the same country as you are.
This is why I don't buy games online anymore (unless we're talking abo
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I've got a different problem. The DRM in L4D and L4D2 kick me out sporadically while checking my SteamID. None of my other Steam games give me any such problem. This is most likely because I'm playing them under Linux (as they work fine under Windows on the same machine)... It's pretty aggravating when your 100% legal game works 100% under your OS of choice *except* for the DRM.
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They aren't pumping console crap into PC games - they are building games for crappy consoles and porting them to PCs! I was all set to purchase the latest Supreme Commander "sequel" until I found out they did this and the interface was dumbed for consoles! Oh and it was STEAM only - F that. No sale! I finally found my old CD for the previous game and I play UT2K4 when I want a FPS. How sad is it that i play a six year old game just to enjoy gaming on my computer? That's how bad it is now...
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Ditto. I was disgusted with the bullshit you have to install to play GTA4 on PC. I wish I'd known about it beforehand because I would have just pirated a copy of it instead. Felt so violated by the install process that two days later I formatted my PC (just to make sure I got rid of every last piece of crapware it put on my system - I don't trust "uninstall" when they're pushing invasive DRM) and threw the game away. I've purchased every GTA game on PC up to this one - I won't be buying another. Congrats Ro
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"Shoulda looked at the reviews [google.com] first I guess."
GTA4 appears to be the highest rated game of all time across all platforms. Not sure looking at reviews would have helped you avoid it, unless you enjoy F-rated games. I don't personally get the high ratings it enjoys, but facts are facts.
reselling used digital copies? what? (Score:2)
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Only if it's their games. If it's a third party publishers game [stardock.com] you're still screwed because the publisher can simply say there isn't a problem and deny the refund..
It's been done already (Score:4, Informative)
I bought a copy of Neverwinter Nights when it came out and... well, they actually did with the game the very same thing the article is suggesting.
You have your CDs with your serial, which you use to install as many times as you want, and Bioware actually allows you to store that Serial in their servers, protected by a password.
Do you feel like sharing youre game? Just lend your CD key to someone, which could just mean to lend them the password for your account with bioware. Also, if you lose the damn booklet in which it came printed, or if you're just not at home, you can always retrieve your serial from their servers, provided you remember the password.
Now THAT's what I call value.
On an unrelated topic, they also ported their game to linux after a while. You didn't even have to buy it again! Just download the installation package for linux (yes, download, for free, from their servers), use your windows serial and you're all set. Suffice it to say it worked like a charm.
Re:It's been done already (Score:5, Informative)
Uhmm no offense but they only 'ported it to linux' due to the fact that they'd lied about linux support right up until 2 weeks before release, promised it would be out by the end of the month, then kowtowed for 6 months while really putting it out while all those people who bought it release day on the promise of linux support VERY SOON started to discuss class action lawsuits against them for false marketing.
But that could just be me. And you'll also note Bioware has not had a single game *SINCE* that supported linux, even though a number of other games used derivatives of the engine.
- A Former Bioware fan.
I see what you did there. (Score:2)
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Well if you're never going to play offline, why are you so upset about a system that requires you to be online?
I know there are plenty of other issues with DRM, but I really don't see how this would be one of them for somebody who thinks playing offline "would be pretty much useless"
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Considering the fat sacks of cash Valve is raking in from Steam? Not likely.
Besides, the customer base is large enough that they COULDN'T shut Steam down without a class-action lawsuit. They're already on shaky ground, legally terming it a "subscription service" to bypass various first-sale laws. Even if they won the suit, they would have lost millions in attorney's fees. It may have been possible several years ago, but Steam has a critical mass of users. While that's a good thing for Valve, in that it make
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Steam's offline mode works for LAN gaming, and might work fully online, depending on the game. For something not using the Steam server browser, RUSE probably can't tell what mode you're in.
And I, for one, never play RTSes online. Too many obsessive experts, too hard to find someone who just wants to have fun. LAN gaming with your friends works for that.
No problem (Score:2)
Ruse sucks - so you don't have to waste any time on it (was demoed on steam)
They're bringing back the dongle! (Score:2)
God Almighty, I thought that damn thing was gone forever.
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Download caps may hit games hard some day with drm (Score:2)
Download caps may hit games hard some day with drm systems and any kind of on live system will run of that fast 5 Mbps can hit the comcast 250 gb cap fast.
How well does the Ubisoft system work with dial up or satellite internet. For one thing any thing like on live is out for them.
Call it what it is. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Alternative to DRM"? No, this is just another form of DRM.
I like what Steam offers. I think it's a fair trade. I'm still not going to call it something other than DRM.
You know what the "alternative" to DRM is? Not putting fucking DRM on your products!
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I can live with Steam's DRM. It's hassle-free and as long as Steam is around, I can play all my games, wherever I want, without any discs. Great! Now if only Steam let you transfer your licenses to another Steam account - that would be solid GOLD. Even set up an online store where you can sell or trade games with other players, with Steam (and the publisher) taking a percentage of the sale. Steam would replace EB Games. :P
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I like my physical media.
For music, and movies, and so forth, anyway. It gives me freedom, to some degree. For instance, my collection of CDs is reasonable (500+), and some of them haven't been MP3'd yet. But worse, some were MP3'd years ago, at a low bit rate because when your player only has 64Mb of storage (yes, MEGAbytes - a Diamond Rio 500 - look it up!) you have to compromise a little.
I'm now slowly going through them and re-ripping at a much higher bitrate. In that scenario, having media wins.
How
"Digital property" (Score:3, Interesting)
Realistically, something is your property insofar as you can control it; my car is my property because I have the keys and can do what I want with it. (It helps that I legally own the car as well, but legal property rights do not guarantee that things won't be stolen.) If someone does steal my car, then legally I still own it, but realistically I don't have it anymore.
Copyrighted and publicly released media such as video games are legally owned by the copyright holder(s), but realistically, they are 'owned' by either everyone or no one. Once something goes on the Internet, any privately held control over it is basically nullified. Anyone can copy it and redistribute it to anyone else. The 'owners' can come close enough to actual ownership by not releasing the media or information, but once that happens it is, for all intents and purposes, public domain.
That's why I think the term "digital property" is an oxymoron. It can't exist because of the nature of the Internet, which is the unbiased sharing of information from one computer to another, and no DRM garbage will change that.
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The words Intellectual property and digital property are complete bullshit because publishers don't treat it as such. They sell you a license to view or experience their media which is non-transferable. That's as far away from property as can be imagined. The term really needs to die and people need to see reality for what it really is; you're renting a game.
Putting the "real" back into reality. (Score:2)
The IEEE Standards Association, which develops industry standards for a variety of technologies, is working to define 'digital personal property.' The goal, says Paul Sweazey, who heads the organization's working group, is to restore some of the qualities of physical property — making it possible to lend or resell digital property.
But, but, it's "imaginary" property. How else are we going to illegally download movies, music, and games, if we start giving it physical properties?
Cool, though I'll wait until it's a certainty (Score:2)
I loved Ruse in the open beta.
That DRM was the only reason I didn't pre-order the game and was not buying it.
If they dropped that I'll buy it as soon as it's confirmed to work just fine offline.
Of course no one else cares about that, but it was annoying to really like a game and also not be able to play it because the DRM was retarded enough to make buying it not an option. Steam I can live with.
...simply share the URL (Score:2)
"...simply share the URL".
<sarcasm>No, I don't see how that could possibly be abused.</sarcasm>
I stopped getting tense after MechWarrior4 (Score:4, Interesting)
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I think all older gamers have some story like this. I still buy games, but only very, very seldom. My 'gaming pc' is actually being used as a media center now since I use it for gaming so seldom. Anyhow, my story:
Neverwinter Nights. I stick it in, start playing... 10 minutes later it crashes. No errors, just gone. Try again. And again. And again. Eventually I went online and got the NoCD crack thinking maybe my CD drive was bad. It fixed the problem. Thing is, my CD drive wasn't broken... The D
Stuck on a dead end? (Score:2)
This isn't a software engineering problem, it's a social engineering problem. DRM can help to some extent, but it can't possibly be a complete solution and it can't be strong enough to approximate a complete solution without causing a host of problems. There are a few key points:
Real-Life example of how broken the system is: (Score:5, Interesting)
I decided I wanted to play Bioshock. Yes, it's a few years old, but so what.
Living in Germany, I can only buy a censored version. I am over 18 and want to play the game as it was intended to be played. Steam not an option, then.
Looking for physical media, I realized that SecuROM is still used with the DVD variant. I refuse to install any such thing on any machine I own or maintain.
I contacted Steam support, looked around the web, etc. I tried _really_ hard to play by the rules.
Long story short? I bought a DVD and installed Bioshock from an age-old torrent that has been alive for a few years now. To add more irony to irony, the torrent download was faster than the typical Steam download and apart from a single .reg, I did not even install Bioshock. I runs happily from where I extracted it.
People... DO NOT MAKE IT HARD FOR ME TO GIVE YOU MONEY! You would think that should be obvious...
Maybe They Should Try Guilt Instead (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone who's paying attention already knows that all DRM is crackable for people who are sufficiently cheap. In fact, I'm inlined to believe that excessive DRM only posses a "challenge" for players to crack. Instead of just having a game to play, there's the game of cracking the DRM, with the reward being you get to play a game.
I think social-hacking by game makers would be a much more effective and affordable approach. To do it properly, they'd need some kind of carrot and stick approach. Here's an example, let's say the game takes a good old CD key. When it boots the first time it tries to authenticate with a server. If the server is found, and the key is valid and never before used, the loading screen displays something along the lines of "Thank you for purchasing this game. Your money allows GAME_COMPANY_X to make the best games possible." If it connects and the key is valid but not new, they could select a message based on how recently the key was used by someone else. If very recently, they could splash "It looks like you may be borrowing this game from a friend. We approve of sharing, but hope you'll love this game enough to purchase your own copy." Or, if the last user hasn't loaded in a while, it could display something friendly about reselling the game.
Meanwhile, if the server finds the key is not authentic, or is being used by lots and lots of people at a time it could display "You do not appear to have an authentic copy of our game. We do not believe in punishing people who play our games, so we will not record your IP address or in any other way violate your privacy, but do know that our developers must be paid to produce games of this quality. So, if you like the game, please buy a legal copy or share one with a friend."
My wording might be incorrect, but I think a simple scheme like that might go much further towards encouraging players who like the game to buy it while removing the fun of cracking from those who just like a challenge. Also, if I do purchase a valid copy and for some reason my key is being used by other people or I'm not on a network, I can still play the game and the message itself may even be positive. E.g. we can't authenticate you, but please enjoy our game anyways, and please play a legal copy.
The only problem with this kind of idea is that to CEOs it doesn't look like you're doing anything. They won't realize it's probably more effective at reducing theft than any DRM they can dream up.
Re:Alternative? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, if the original FO3 was an indication, it shouldn't be bad. They made shitloads of cash, despite the fact that only the frontend launcher was protected... and using it wasn't mandatory.
The DLC also was unprotected. Sure, you (or someone else...) needed to use Games for Windows Live to purchase and download... but some digging in your user profile will find you the data files. You can simply copy those directly into the game's data directory, and you now don't even need to sign into Live to access them!
In fact, this is -required- for use of things like "fose" - which is kind of like a trainer except that it extends the game's scripting engine (and is used by any mod of decent complexity/elegance - see FO3: Wanderer's Edition for instance.
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Re:Personally I really like how Starcraft 2 works (Score:4, Insightful)
I personally hate how Starcraft 2 works. You must connect to battle.net even to play single player. There is no LAN play.
It's all crippled by choice, and is one of the more evil rights restriction methods out there.
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have you heard what happened in a first big tournament with $5k prize just 2 days ago? Players repeatedly lagged and in a showmatch Korean pro dropped TWICE in a best of 3 match. Do you think that they had a shitty connection?
Thousands of people watched it live, you can imagine how much of a fail that was.
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Unless of course you're in a hotel somewhere trying to play the game and you can't save the game, get any rewards and you can only play the campaign because you're not connected to your online account and according to some on the forums, if you lose your connection and stay disconnected during gameplay you can't save your game and potentially lose large amounts of gameplay.
I didn't buy Starcraft 2 exactly for that reason (neither did I pirate it) and I was planning on buying the $120 collector's edition. So
Re:One opinion (Score:4, Insightful)
how about the general gaming public's response:
we won't buy anything with annoying DRM. Really, the solution is to add more DRM? Not exactly a solution.
Steam is no exception, and is only tolerable because it has no competition in that aspect.
Once other companies wise up to the steam concept nobody will give a crap for it anymore either.
Re:One opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not just DRM that is the problem.
It is also the fact that many companies are now opting to host servers, rather than let you host a server. This severely prevents you from ever owning your game. Once the company decides to no longer host the servers... that game is dead.
Classic gaming will be a thing of the past. You will not own what you bought.
How will people play Street Fighter IV 10 years from now? Probably the same way people play SF3 online now, with hacked custom server code, that runs through an arcade emulator.
But thats not really owning your game if you have to hack it, write server code... etc
is it?
Actually, these companies would consider that illegal.
Re:One opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
Steam's customer support has also been fantastic to me over the years. I sent them an email inquiry just this afternoon about a purchasing question and they responded within a few hours - on a Sunday. The response was polite, succinct, informative, and written in perfect English.
Valve itself has also done a great deal to command my respect. When I sent an email to a member of the Team Fortress 2 team regarding an issue with the game overlay I was having, I was put into contact with one of their programmers who examined some stack traces I sent over and helped troubleshoot the issue. Their executives also have a sense of humor and personally respond to emails frequently. Every single time I've contacted Valve and the Steam team, they've been respectful, helpful, and treated me like a customer rather than a criminal. As a result, I shop almost exclusively at Steam because I feel they've earned my loyalty as a customer. That is what I feel most software/music/movie companies fail to realize: if you treat your customers like criminals, they'll certainly consider acting like them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They don't guarantee it in the legal sense, but Gabe Newell did state in a forum post that they can patch steam to disable the authentication requirement, which would allow everyone to copy and play their purchased games.
Honestly though, it's going to be a cold day in hell when Steam dies an unexpected death. In the digital delivery world, compared to the rest of the computing industry, Steam is so damn big they'd name their testicles Microsoft and Google.
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What a load of shit. It's been proven time and again that "we" will not pay for anything we don't have to..
You might stand on principle against DRM, or only use piracy as a means of evaluating a product before playing blind date with fifty bucks, but you're in a very, very small minority. The majority is scum who will download the pay what you want Humble Indie Bundle off a fucking torrent. The sooner everyone can admit that piracy is a serious problem, and DRM sc
Re:One opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
DRM does not improve sales
So, adding DRM costs money but does not give any return for this. Then you say:
The point is numerous quality developers are having their necks wrung by piracy, and their quest for a way to guarantee profit - to them - is worth the relatively small number of customers that refuse to purchase their products due to DRM.
So, DRM does not improve sales and, you agree, harms them (although you say by a small amount), but game developers are doing it because it is a way to guarantee profit?
I don't see your logic here. You have something that increases costs, doesn't increase sales, but still somehow increases profit? The profit from selling any product is the per-unit price, minus the per-unit costs, multiplied by the number of sales. You've agreed that adding DRM drives up the per-unit costs and decreases the number of sales (albeit by a small amount), but you still somehow contend that DRM increases profits?
Oh, and developers are not having their necks wrung by piracy. The number of pirates is completely irrelevant. Here's a simple thought experiment: would you rather 100 people bought your game but no one pirated it, or 1,000 people bought it and 10,000 people pirated it? The only thing that matters from an economic perspective is the number of sales. Reducing piracy is only important if it increases sales - as an end in itself it is meaningless, except perhaps from an emotional or moral stance.
If your DRM scheme reduces piracy by 50%, but does not increase sales, it is pointless. It cost you money, but you got no return for it. If it increases sales (which you've already agreed it doesn't), but not by a large enough amount to cover the costs of adding the DRM, you get no return from it.
Your argument sounds like someone banging their head against the wall and then telling people that they have to do it because they have a headache.
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There have been numerous $20 DRM-free indy games that were pirated just as much as everything else.
There is no reward for companies that go DRM-free
DRM takes effort to implement. There is also no (or very small) reward for companies that go with DRM.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:DRM free pc games get heavily pirated (Score:5, Insightful)
But how much of those pirated copies are actually a lost sale? Most people that pirate software do not intend to buy the game if they are not able to get a pirated copy. The irony is that most pirated copies actually work better due to the removal of the obtrusive DRM. For a lot of legally bought games that required the CD/DVD in the drive I installed a no cd crack so i would not have to juggle the discs ll the time. You hear a lot of issues with DRM failing on some system configurations which makes the game unplayable for people that legally bought it. DRM hurts sales instead of improving them.
I sometimes play some of the oldies I have for years. This will not be possible with the current games. If the publisher no longer want to support it it will no longer be playable.
Re:DRM free pc games get heavily pirated (Score:4, Interesting)
I was going to mod you (+1, Everything You Said Is True), but decided to post instead so I could observe that unfortunately, you and I seem to be a relatively small group compared to the vast numbers of freeloaders out there.
As a guy who runs software development businesses, I can appreciate that a games company isn't doing this for fun, they're doing it to make a living. In cold, hard maths, if they are looking at piracy rates of 90% on a DRM-free title and DRM can cut that down to 80%, that doubles the amount of income they're making on that game, which probably does a lot more than doubling their profits after sunk costs are taken into account. I fear that easily outweighs any losses to a few people like you and me who won't spend their hard-earned cash on a game with those kinds of restrictions.
There seems to be an entire generation now who have this "everything I want should be free" entitlement culture. I'm sure it's partly to do with being able to rip things like games and music on-line, but it's also a lot to do with how the kids are brought up: walk through the city centre on a Saturday afternoon, and most of the 12-year-olds have more expensive phones than I do. If I wanted something nice when I was younger, I had to help with the household chores or do my homework, and my parents would give me enough money to buy a little treat if and when I had fulfilled my other obligations. When was the last time you heard about a child having to work for their phone? This is not a healthy trend, but as long as it is socially acceptable to get whatever you want without having to work for it, it's going to be a tough market that companies like computer game vendors to operate in.
Re:DRM free pc games get heavily pirated (Score:4, Insightful)
if they are looking at piracy rates of 90% on a DRM-free title and DRM can cut that down to 80%, that doubles the amount of income they're making on that game, which probably does a lot more than doubling their profits
This is a fallacy. There's no guarantee that those missing 10% now paid money for the game. It could easily be that simply less people are playing the game. It could even be that the total number of players dropped by more than 10%, in which case you're actually worse off.
If you want a meaningful comparison, you have to compare the actual numbers of people paying for the game when all other factors (marketing, attractiveness of the game (admittedly impossible to determine)) are equal.
Re:One opinion (Score:5, Informative)
Believe it or not there are people in this world that still use physical mediums to transfer data. It's possible to actually buy a disc that has a game (or games) on it, install them from the disc, and them play them all without permission from an outside source.
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Re:Digital Ramming Molestation (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent is right.
I've lost out of more or less a generation of games.
I stopped pirating after in my last year of uni, then realized that the drm was too intrusive.
I'm stuck playing civ 4 (all expansions, all paid) and a few steam-games, like defcon, some hl-mods and portal.
DRM has basically been a wedge against cultural proliferation, and as such it sucks much more. I almost cry, when I realize that there are games, that I would love to play, but I just will not install them on my computer, due to digital rights management. Bioshock, spore, assasins creed 2, company of heroes, silent hunter 5 and many many more.
DRM is the reason i buy music anymore, i got a sony-infected cd and apparently hadn't turned off auto-play after adding a new dvd-drive.
the people who do install this fit the description:
Because they deprive the world of cultural enrichment. They do so without regards to the fact that promoting cultural enrichment is the very reason they have copyright in the first place.
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Consoles are different story of course. They last much much longer relatively speaking before they are cracked.
The console or the games?
Games for Xbox360 are cracked same day they are released (some times before, depending on retailers)