Video Games Lead To Quick Thinking Skills 174
shmG writes "Parents who dismiss video games as mindless entertainment with no intrinsic value for their children may not have a leg to stand on anymore thanks to science. Cognitive scientists from the University of Rochester have proven action based video games train people to make quick, accurate decisions. These skills acquired from video games, which help players develop a heightened sensitivity to their surroundings, can be used in real world applications. This includes multitasking, driving, reading small print, keeping track of friends in a crowd, and navigating around town."
Video Games (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Video Games (Score:4, Funny)
Camper!!
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I quickly determined... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I quickly determined... (Score:5, Funny)
"other results of the study indicated subjects had a reduced attention span when comp... Squirrel!! ...ared to a control group."
Apparently not... (Score:2)
...read this on Ars and saw it on Engadget days before it made /.
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hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)
They did for me. Well, getting them to run on those PCs by tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys files, conserving hard drive space and learning all about zip, then eventually running out of compatible games and having to write my own in good old QuickBasic (which I couldn't even imagine working in now...)
Of course, that was post TRS-80 days of cassette loading, 5.25 (if you were lucky) drives that were the size of a PC today and typing in BASIC programs from the back of a magazine.
Mental payoffs come in many forms though. I think the original story was talking about boosting your brains processes of quick recognition skills, reaction, and dexterity... I think I am (we are?) talking about knowledge and critical thinking skills where speed wasn't so much an option.
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I hate you with all my heart, conventional memory, EMS and XMS !!!
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>>>Well, getting them to run on those PCs by tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys files
Should have bought an Atari, Commodore, or Amiga. These computers were plug-and-play simple and didn't make you dick around with that shit. You just inserted the game, typed LOAD, and played. Even today I still can't get the Wing Commander 1 and 2 to operate on a PC, but on my Amiga it just works.
Also I think maybe I understand now why people say, "Jr.Pac-Man is hard. I'd rather play Pac-Man." If you
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You had to type LOAD? Atari had self-booting disks.
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Really? That's pretty advanced for a 1979 computer. Commodore didn't have any self-booting disks until they released Amiga in 1985.
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Actually the Commodore 128 can have self booting disks as well and it slightly predates the first Amiga.
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Yeah not really. It was possible but it was a hack requiring Assembly knowledge by the user. Plus it didn't work at all in C64 mode (where 99.9% of programs ran). In all the time I owned a 128 I don't remember autobooting anything. It was always "GO64" followed by the standard LOAD"*",8,1
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You didn't use the 128 version of GEOS? (it uses the autoboot feature)
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>>>Well, getting them to run on those PCs by tweaking autoexec.bat and config.sys files
Should have bought an Atari, Commodore, or Amiga. These computers were plug-and-play simple and didn't make you dick around with that shit. You just inserted the game, typed LOAD, and played. Even today I still can't get the Wing Commander 1 and 2 to operate on a PC
Dosbox FTW. Yes, you sometimes have to dick around with it, but you can play tons of old games with it. Go to http://www.abandonia.com/ [abandonia.com] or similar sites, download a few of your old favourites (WC, Master of Magic, etc) and enjoy them with Dosbox. http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1 [dosbox.com]
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I didn't get into the TI as much as I should have. I started off with an early model Casio Sci-Calc and eventually moved to a TI-85 but I never really got into it as much as I just used it for school.
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>>>Remember programming those TI calculators to play moon lander?
No because they cost more (~$300) than buying a Commodore computer (which is where my hard-saved allowance went)
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Not that you're necessarily wrong, just that your claim is completely unrelated to this story except for the fact that it involves computers and games.
Re:hmmm (Score:4, Funny)
Except the study was about action games, and the improvement was in speed, not accuracy.
From the summary:
action based video games train people to make quick, accurate decisions.
Speed and accuracy.
I'll just assume you're not a gamer, shall I?
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Unfortunately, the summary cannot be trusted further than you can throw it.
Which is of course to say, not at all.
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The same topic covered at arstechnica [arstechnica.com] and the article explicitly states that improvement was ONLY in speed. I think I trust ars more on this one...
Re:hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
The main problem with that is that you're only training the brain to deal with certain types of stimulus, primarily visual and auditory. It's definitely a real phenomenon, but I'm thinking that they're overstating it and I doubt very much that it extends much beyond a narrow range of tasks.
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And I wasn't trying to support the study, just mentioning as a side point I gained a lot from computer games. Conversations evolve, my friend.
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Well, I have no way to prove it for sure, but I do feel that Counter Strike, Quake and CoD helped me to get better at real world navigation. I was having huge troubles using maps and getting grasp of "where am I". Then (in my adult life -- 20+) I bought myself a good gaming PC and started playing action games. At first, I sucked most at the same thing: navigation. Radar was absolutely useless to me, as I had problems finding the simplest paths.
But now, I'm pretty good at it. And in real life too.
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Oh Leather Goddess of Phobos, how I miss thee.
Yep (Score:4, Funny)
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>>>I know grand theft auto helped me learn learned how to drive, and perhaps how to lose the cops.
.
Ditto but for me it was Test Drive and Outrun (which had the coolest music) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxDHF8q4Mo0 [youtube.com]
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That's how Peter learned to drive [youtube.com], too.
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Well, cops with anterograde amnesia, anyway.
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Anecdotal Evidence (Score:5, Interesting)
I actually agree quite a lot with the summary, I'm legally blind, I have no depth perception and I had a lot of trouble tracking moving objects (like frisbees or baseballs). When started playing video games I started to notice that my reflexes were getting a little better the more I played. Soon I was able to catch a frisbee and throw it back. It was an amazing change for me.
I've also noticed that I have some innate ability to make intricate maps of everywhere I go. I never get lost (this is important as I can't read street signs without assistance). I'm not sure if playing video games where map memorization is key or what but I do seem to be better at it than many of my non-gamer friends.
Interesting stuff...
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I've also noticed that I have some innate ability to make intricate maps of everywhere I go.
You know, I'm sort of the same way. If I spend a couple minutes looking at a map of where I'm going I can generally navigate there without looking at the map again. If I actually drive somewhere, I can typically find my way back to the same place years later without checking directions. I definitely spent a lot of hours when I was younger playing RPGs and other games with maps. Of course, there's no telling how I would be if I hadn't played those games.
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In my case I know the skill is almost completely unrelated to video game mapping. I did a lot of that, too, but that's primarily because I almost always get badly lost in games (first-person games). I find a huge disconnect between turning around in the real world and trying to navigate a virtual world. Particularly in the ol
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I think that's a combo of good sense of direction and a good memory. I was able to do that stuff prior to my video game craze setting in. Although, GTAIII+ have all helped too. I seem to know just where a good shortcut is, even without the map. Repetition is also the key, as is much repetition.
Personally, there's nothing like multitasking, driving, reading small print, keeping track of friends in a crowd, and navigating around town, all at the same time! Videogames, is there anything in life you don't
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>>>I'm legally blind, I have no depth perception and I had a lot of trouble tracking moving objects (like frisbees or baseballs). When started playing video games I started to notice that my reflexes were getting a little better the more I played. Soon I was able to catch a frisbee
>>>
"Video Games: Helping the blind to see since 1972." ;-)
We need more of these stories to share with idiots that thinking gaming is bad.
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Re:Anecdotal Evidence (Score:5, Interesting)
By gaming, you passively train your brain to do "the same". You get some skill-ups by having fun. Others, who don't play games, can actively train their brains to do the same stuff, but they don't have that much fun in the process.
My girlfriend doesn't play PC Games. At all. She is bright but can't make sense of stuff I immediately understand. E.g. she hated the new phone I bought her; she had and still has problems configuring this and that; she manages to do so but takes her a lot more time than it takes me to do that. It may be a result of me playing puzzle games. Also, orientation in unknown environments (such as finding the route back to a hotel in a foreign city) is more difficult for her than is for me. It may be a result of me playing quite a few dumb FPS games with complex levels. You'd say probably my girlfriend is dumb. But I know she isn't. She lacks certain skills. And maybe if she played games, those skills would have been better.
Re:Anecdotal Evidence (Score:5, Interesting)
It's interesting, though. Do we like these kinds of games because we are innately gifted at such puzzle-solving, or did playing those games make us good at it? Did I like playing with Lego because I had (have?) good 3d-visualization skills and common engineering-sense, or did I develop that from playing with Lego?
I was astounded to see how much I've (unconsciously) learned by playing FPS games. I tried to introduce my father in law to COD4, and watching him puzzle out how to look around, move, and do both, was both fascinating and cringe-inducing. I guess it's what drivers feel when they like watch non-drivers learn.
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IMO, it's a positive feedback loop.
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It's true (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's true (Score:5, Funny)
Kids get a lot of hit points these days thanks to the sugars and fatty foods. They'll be fine. ;)
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The pinnacle of this was perhaps Odin Sphere where you had to feed the souls of those you killed in combat to plants so you could mix their fruits with various storebought foods into delicious recipes that gained you experience and health.
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Everyone runs faster with a knife in their hands.
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Everyone runs faster with a knife in their hands.
Double Dragon taught me to wait for the other person to reach down for the knife, then attack.
video wasd..games just wasd.. make me spaz.. (Score:3, Funny)
Hum. (Score:3, Interesting)
So video games affect our brains but violent video games don't.
I hope Slashdot responds with the same correlation != causation responses that accompany any "violent video games cause insert something here" claims... :)
Unless I can be shown where this actually IS proven causation...
Re:Hum. (Score:5, Informative)
The main thing to note (based on what I read of this study) is that it doesn't make you better at making decisions, it makes you faster (without loss of quality).
Basically, video games have the same effect as a job that forces you to make lots of decisions really fast. It just exercises the "make decisions" part of the brain, where as reading or watching TV or painting a wall probably doesn't.
Actually, I would expect this to almost be used as proof against violent games. After all, violent games make people violent (an accepted truth by those making these kinds of claims), and video games make you faster at making decisions (this study)... so ergo video games make people violently snap and kill people faster than normal people.
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... so ergo ...
Nice touch there.
Re:Hum. (Score:4, Informative)
The study shows that, immediately following an action gaming session, gamers were quicker to respond. However, it does not indicate whether this actually lasts. They could just be on an adrenaline rush (or something similar), which could wane eventually. It doesn't seem to indicate that they have actually been "trained" to make decisions more quickly.
It may be the case, but it isn't clear, at least not from the article.
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Violent video games generating violent behavior is a touchy area. Violence outbursts are incredibly complex behaviors, requiring not only the priming for aggression but also and encouragement to act out and potentially some level of training to perform the behavior.
More rapid decision making is a much more basic process. As you point out there was not real improvement to the accuracy or quality of the decisions, they simply occurred faster. This is exactly what you would expect when a person practice
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Morality is a completely different portion of the brain than what they're studying here.
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It's simple logic.
Using a skill repeatedly improves it.
Gaming uses certain skills.
Therefore, gaming regularly improves those skills.
In the "violent games makes violent people" argument, the logic is:
Simulating violent acts repeatedly increases tendency for violent behavior
Gaming simulates violent acts.
Therefore, gaming regularly increases tendency for violent behavior
The thing, while the premises of the first argument are accepted generally, I've never seen any evidence that the first premise of the second
I knew it would come in handy someday (Score:2)
1) Video games.
2) Heightened sensitivity to surroundings and quick accurate decisions.
3) ???
4) Profit!
But wait! there's more
http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2010/04/20/gary-larson-predicted-the-future-of-video-game-employment/ [gamerinvestments.com]
My C.V.! (Score:2)
Does this mean I can finally put my old MOHAA ranks and team leading experience on my resume?
A step back (Score:2)
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"It's not one or the other. People don't have to constantly play video games, read, be physically active, or practice mathematics to receive their benefits. They can balance them out."
Or not.
On one hand, how much gaming is needed to significantly improve your reactions? I'd bet is not five minutes a day; in the other, especially in the era of on-line gaming, videogames are designed to be adictive so you are always on the risk of too much gaming if there's such thing, so it can be the case that you really c
"You fell into a trap!" (Score:4, Funny)
"You are damaged by the fall!"
I saw that while playing Rogue back in the early '80s. I'm still considering what I should do next.
Yeah, quick thinking, indeed . . .
I play far too many games (Score:2)
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I find that I'm excellent at navigation in real life (including in complex cities), but terrible in games. Generally I can't get anywhere in a game without looking at the map, even in really linear games. Even with the HUD and all kinds of stuff, there's tons of navigational clues that I use subconsciously in real life that are missing in games.
This is no surprise (Score:2, Interesting)
GTA4 (Score:2)
Ever since I completed GTA4 there are times when I confuse driving in real life with the game.
What about pinball that has action without the vio (Score:2)
What about pinball that has action without the violence of most Acton games?
Balance (Score:2)
It takes a bit of everything. Sure, your gaming experience helps you navigate a city in map space. But you still need to go outside and play. Or your fat ass is going to get run over by a cab trying to waddle across the intersection before the signal changes*.
* I saw one just the other day. Outside Microsoft's new officees in downtown Bellevue. Perhaps a great programmer. But no clue about the Big Red Hand and no ability to get out of the intersection quickly before almost getting mowed down.
Want to drive better? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously - nothing makes you more aware of *all* of your surroundings quite like having no defenses save your wits and reflexes. The idea of who would be "at fault" in an accident quickly becomes irrelevant, because you understand viscerally that it really doesn't matter in the end [if you value your life, anyway].
Those metal and fiber shells we lumber along in make us very complacent. The skills you learn from being exposed on a motorcycle will result in an immediate improvement in how you drive a car as well. And you'll find yourself wondering how [relatively] oblivious you were before that -- even those of you who are more aware of your surrounding than most.
Here's a quick test you can give yourself - do you look ahead to where you're going when you make a turn, or do you keep your primary focus parallel with your hood? Most people do the latter until they learn to ride, effectively preventing them from truly seeing potentially critical information in the path ahead -- if you don't believe me, just observe a few people doing it.
(I'd also recommend the standard motorcycle safety course - invaluable even if you have experience.)
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I've had some of the same 'benefits' from riding a bicycle.
You constantly have to be on the alert for people who will negligently mow you down.
To this day, I react to lights about 20% faster than most others--I anticipate the light some by noticing the status of the opposing lights, while also being more aware of cross-traffic, and I often arrange to show up at the light just as it turns green so I don't have to fully stop. (Having to fully stop on a bicycle is a big bummer, you lose ALL your hard-won kine
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Slightly OT, like you: How much it be just our geek IQ and how much game training?
Would the improvement on "making decisions" faster also have to do with why an informally tested IQ of 136 (or the training in me) lets me laugh or note the subtly telegraphed gags, or scary moments, seconds before others at the movie theathers?
Happened in fast-paced scenes like the new Scott Pilgrim movie for example.
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Related: did you ever notice that the people who start edging the
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My leather was also abraded from where I slid a dozen feet -- which would've oth
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Have you heard of the slow food movement? (Score:2)
Unless you are a fighter pilot or a Ninja assassin, quick thinking isn't always the most helpful skill / strategy.
"Decide in haste / Repent at leisure"
"Twice measured / Once Cut"
I think we need a new emphasis on Ent-like pondering. Most of the most important problems that humans
collectively have to solve in this day and age have global and hundred-year-long consequences. Thinking
carelessly but having your solution proposal a day early is likely to be counter-productive.
We need to learn how to do some slow,
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True, but in general it's the way to bet.
As soon as we get an Ent-like lifespan.
Taking overly long to act is unlikely to result in a better decision, but it might result in taking the right decision too late. I'm sure Tolkein's Ents would h
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I see your point but both approaches are important. If you're about to buy a house you might want to take the time to think it over, consider the pros and cons of the purchase and maybe speak to others about it. Conversely, if there is a bus that is a few metres away and travelling towards you at 50 mph, you probably shouldn't think it over, consider the pros and cons and talk to others - you should probably get the fuck out of the way.
The ability to do both is achievable and desirable.
UNREmoveable popup (Score:2)
The FA has an irremovable add that dimms the main page and cannot be removed. No scrollbars on Chrome. So, fuck that site.
Almost participated in this study (Score:2)
I remember seeing fliers for this study when I was a student at the University of Rochester (graduated in 2008). They definitely tried to make it sound as awesome as possible, getting paid to play video games. I think a lot of people signed up to do it; I did a questionnaire via email or something to see how well I fit the type of person they were looking for (plays games a lot - at the time I probably only played a couple hours a month, no surprise they didn't choose me).
Anyway interesting to see the resul
My games (Score:2)
The type of games I play tend to be strategy-focused rather than acting out the details of in-game fights; I wonder if this helps my slower-speed (longer-term) strategizing and planning skills
Problems with Study (Score:3, Insightful)
1) My wife, a statistician, gets irritated when studies say that they have proven things. When trying to draw conclusions from data you always run the risk that your data is not indicative of reality. You get around this with large sample sizes and by receiving data that points to the same trends on repeated studies. This study has a small sample size, 26 people total, and has no mention of repeated results.
2) The friendly article claims that the study has "proven" that action games train people to respond quickly and accurately. The article is overstepping the study in that the conclusion of the study was that people who play action games had the same level of accuracy as those who played The Sims II. The article should have said "quickly without losing accuracy".
3) The author of the study claimed that "People who play these action games make informed, better decisions than those who don't". The study only compared people playing two FPSs to people playing The Sims II. There is no mention of a control group that did not play any video game. The conclusion needs to be a bit more humble and only make statements between people who play FPSs and people who play
I frequently enjoy Alien Swarm. I played Portal and my wife and I are slowly meandering our way through Uru. I used to be hooked on Starcraft, Myth II, Myth, Master of Orion II, and others. I believe that these games have shaped my neurological development and given me advantages in problem solving, strategy, coping with unexpected setbacks, and more. I also believe that they've cost me in self-discipline, my attention span, humanity (desensitization to violence and beyond that enjoyment of violence). My point is that I want the conclusions of this study to be true to give some legitimacy to what is otherwise an unproductive diversion but the study feels a little shoddy.
Is *quick* thinking really what we need? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fast, low complexity decisions is what machines do well. Is it really productive to train our brains to do what machines already do better? Would it not be better to train our brains to generate the deeper insight that, so far anyway, computers have been unable to provide?
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I can still tell you exact directions on how to get from Freeport to Qeynos... but I don't know if I can give you directions to a town just 15 miles from my parent's house. I'm sure with enough driving I could find it though.
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A young curious elf...
- Greater Faydark
Watch out for the brownie
- Butcherblock mountains.
Sit in the docks for hald an hour because you missed the boat by an inch
- Ocean of bored to tears.
Spend an hour because you zoned back and forth from freeport while getting a soda
- Commons
Wow, damn. These are big zones. Damn this running is boring.
- High Hold Pass
Try to navigate around agro mobs. Die and return to Greater Faydark.
- Run through Karanas
Damn, Commons were actually quite small zones... Get killed by some fl
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In EQOA That's easy, you follow the road, there's one spot where the road kinda peters out a bit, think it's in a sort of arid area, but it picks up again soon after, there's also a couple of spots where aggro mobs can get a little close, but if you're careful even a Level 1 can do it. Course it helps that in EQOA, that even though there are zones, the world is seamless, no loading times when you cross a zone line.
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I press B B B B B B B B B to act on getting one of them
And then it turns out the 6th B should have been X, so you get a kick in the balls instead.
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This technique works well with lifts/elevators. It does mean you end up in the basement but that's not a problem, right?
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Beyond that though, the study is a bit of bunk. Video games require a specific kind of focus, concentration and thought. It definitely doesn't help with anything that requires physical coordination beyond the port
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I've never doubted that video games were good at developing the skills needed... well, for video games. And some of those apply to the real world. But parents worried whether their game-obsessed kids are developing other essential skills – such as critical thinking, understanding other people, carefully choosing between complex options, developing new ideas of their own, etc. – they still have reason to worry.
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Honestly, I think the vast majority of parents don't have those skills either.
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What this study is about, however, is task independent patter recognition. Since this study works with a task that all
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Is it? Any time I've played an action game (or any other game), I've found myself repeating what are very obvious, mindless routines once I learned the basics. Very, very few games actually require more mental agility than the ability to endlessly spam for points.
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I say if you're going to sit in front of the tv for hours at a time, it's better for you to be playing a videogame.
As a matter of fact, doing "work" on a computer uses quite few calories - I would imagine the same holds true for any game requiring at least a moderate amount of thinking while timing moves properly. Contrast this with the fact that one burns fewer calories watching TV than one does sleeping.
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On the bright side, you no longer have a girlfriend. Good job!
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I don't think lust helps thinking skills. :P
Anyway, that would presumably depend on whether your partner likes the ideas you select from the pornographic literature.
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but... you are VERY quick to click it away! 25% faster than a non-gamer!