Sony Wants To Put Your Game Saves In the Cloud 224
itwbennett writes "Sony may be planning to have three platforms (Android devices, NGP, PS3) running PlayStation Suite content and needing access to the same saved data stored in the cloud, says blogger Peter Smith. At last week's PlayStation Meeting, game developer Hideo Kojima said his 'dream' was to offer the same game on the PS3 and the new PlayStation Portable with saves in the cloud. If Kotaku has it right, that dream may be coming in firmware version 3.6. Also, in an interview with Engadget, Sony's Jack Tretton first said that PlayStation Suite games would work on the PS3. He then retracted that comment, but it's sounding a lot like Sony just isn't ready to talk officially about plans to bring Suite content to the PS3, says Smith."
Good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Storing game saves in on the network is a great idea. As long as they are also saved offline and are available for manual backups too. Network storage is not a substitute for offline backups.
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They are game saves. Gaming is not banking. If you care that much about the off chance of having to re-play part of your game, consider finding a game that's more fun to play.
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They are book marks. Reading is not banking. If you care that much about the off chance of having to re-read part of your book, consider finding a book that's more fun to read.
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How many redundant bookmarks should I have just in case one gets lost? Maybe I should buy 2 or 3 copies of each book and mark the page in each one, just in case? And I can keep one copy in my bank safety deposit box. Because maintaining this stuff is a good use of time.
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That's up to you. At the very least, you should have the option to save your bookmarks (or saved games) as many times as you wish.
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You only need to lose one save game and have to re-do all the content you just did... just as equivalent as not being able to go back to the chapter in that book you started reading. Games are just like that, except you can't flip the game to Chapter 12 and start there.
It's not about redundant save games and all that garbage (though some people like to make local copies in case something is corrupted to save them from having to start over.) I feel you are arguing just to argue. You may not enjoy gaming (
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I enjoy gaming, not fooling with backups of backups of game saves. A save and a backup are enough. Cloud saves provide an easy means of backup. It's excellent.
Why did the original poster need to complain about it as imperfectly secure and risk-free? Perfection and time-consuming backup procedures are overkill for game saves because of the low value of game saves.
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They may be low value to you, but others disagree. I still fondly remember ascending with the Amulet of Yendor. I made a copy of the character info dump at the end, and still refer to it from time to time. Thankfully, Nethack being a free and open game I was able to do that.
How valuable is that? Not terribly, but I also didn't go far out of my way to get the file. Even for last generation consoles, all it takes is a minute to dump the contents of a memory card onto your file server then it gets backed u
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How many redundant bookmarks should I have just in case one gets lost?
It's not a question of redundancy, its a question of if you can trust a company like Sony not to use innovation for evil. The possibility that you cannot save your game unless you are connected to the internet suddenly means that useful tool is actually just another form of legitimate owner punishing DRM.
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Actually, this is back to the old Ubisoft DRM mechanism where you had to be online in order to save.
Remember how we all villified Ubisoft for doing this and wanting it to be cracked, blah blah blah. And we
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I've just had my xbox stolen. Save games gone. You might be someone who likes starting over instead of continueing your progress, that's fine, fortunately most other people can accept that others have different requirements.
In short, cloud game backups would be a definite selling point of a console to me.
Think of the valuable lesson you learned... at the mere age of 12 years.
Luckily this is only a game save and not your companies operational data. Who said video games don't teach youngsters anything worthwhile.
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Problem with requiring a company controlled portal to run the game is the industry has proven multiple times that they're all too quick to kill off network infrastructure required to play the game.
It also means that you have to have an operational network connection to run the game.
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Problem with requiring a company controlled portal to run the game is the industry has proven multiple times that they're all too quick to kill off network infrastructure required to play the game.
It also means that you have to have an operational network connection to run the game.
As if, I can fire up my classic copy of Halo for XBox anytime I want some multiplayer FSP action.
-turn on system-
-insert disc-
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This is silly.
In many cases, losing a save game is the literary equivalent of getting to the last chapter of a book, and then being told you can't read the final chapter until you RE-read all the chapters before it. That's just work.
Further, there's a good group of people that play games for the achievements -- and no matter how twisted they might be, losing their progress might represent a loss of hundreds of hours of "work."
If World of Warcraft said, "Oops, we lost your characters, and we have no backup"
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They are game saves. Gaming is not banking. If you care that much about the off chance of having to re-play part of your game, consider finding a game that's more fun to play.
If I spent a bunch of time in Little Big Planet creating levels or machines, you'd better believe I don't want to have to re-create that shit.
I actually faced a similar situation with Frequency and Amplitude on the PS2 - I made some remixes and didn't want to lose 'em, but faulty game save code meant that could only be accomplished with backups.
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You should consider games that are worth playing more than once, in whole or in part.
It's fun to replay the early missions of your favorite game, but it's more fun if you still have access to the stuff you unlocked in your first run through.
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Of course... The network storage will be there when your manual backup get lost... If you have a detailed backup policy for your save games, you really need a life.
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Microsoft already beat them to it. Some games that ship with GFWL required your to be online to save your progress. Don't know if that's still the case nowadays as I tend to avoid GFWL games.
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Did not. It's just that offline (non-registered) saves in one directory and GFWL in another. There's no cloud-saving unless the game specifically provides something of its own.
Steam, on the other hand, does have proper cloud saving. SteamPlay games let you pick up where you left off on OS X or Windows, but there's still an offline version of the savestate.
Re:Good idea (Score:4, Informative)
Would also be a great way to share saved games.
Or it could be the exact opposite: Make it impossible to share game saves at all and only allow you to play the games as intended by the developer. Wouldn't even be a new thing, there are already quite a few games on consoles out that have copy protected save games (in the name of protecting achievements and other bullshit reasons).
Speaking of save games in the cloud: Does anybody know how OnLive handles the situation? Do they allow any kind of save game sharing at all?
That would be nice, if... (Score:4, Interesting)
...they don't abuse the power.
For instance, Nintendo happens to sign your save game files with a per-console key. This allows developers the option to lock their game's saves to the console, preventing you from moving them from one machine to the next. Certain homebrew applications were created that allowed you to actually back up your save file.
This hit me when I bought Ghost Squad. I unlocked a bunch of guns, and wanted to take the game to a friend's house to play on his Wii. I tried to copy my save file to the SD Card, and it told me no. That's some balls, telling me that I can't copy my own save file. WTF?
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My guess is if Sony was going to install something on your machine it would be in one of the updates forced down to... Hey, wait a minute...
It's about time (Score:2)
Hopefully (Score:5, Insightful)
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Wow, you're really a hopeful type aren't you?
It sounds like they're trying to do precisely that - like earlier when Ubisoft tried to make it so your games wouldn't start if you weren't net connected and would die if you lost connection, while holding your savegames hostage.
Re:Hopefully (Score:4, Insightful)
You may rest assured that they ARE forced into the cloud.
This is not a feature for your convenience. It's a feature to plug the "security" hole where bogus save game files allowed the circumvention of the vendor lock in.
Never wondered why some really, really shitty games sold so well? Usually they were because the safe game routine was as crappy programmed as the rest and it didn't check that it allowed a jail break.
So it follows (Score:2)
In the future every game will be MMO - even the single player ones.
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Maybe you missed this part of his comment:
...someone who will be without internet access...
My satellite receiver is not connected to the phone line or ethernet in my house. It took several months to arrange broadband at home. When I finally got it, I decided not to connect the satellite receiver, or the blue-ray player.
1. I don't want my family going hog-wild with pay-per-view movies.
2. I don't want the blue-ray manufacturer knowing what movies I watch. If they want that info, they can offer pay me for it (and I'll still say no).
3. I don't want the sat
Re:Hopefully (Score:5, Insightful)
Just this week, I tried to play a game I purchased from the PSN. It has no online interactions. Yet, because I haven't installed the latest firmware, it refuses to let me play. Same would happen if my internet was down.
Next I finally got around to remembering to backup my saved games. I tried to do Guitar Hero first. I've put several dozen hours into creating custom avatars for friends and family. Guess what-- due to "copyright concerns" or some crap like that, the playstation refuses to backup the file to a USB device.
All that because I refuse to beta-test Sony's latest firmware, or because they're afraid I'll-- do something?-- with my Guitar Hero saved games.
If my saved games end up "in the cloud", I can 100% guarantee that at some point, they will be lost, or I will be denied access to them, and will not be allowed to back them up locally.
Good idea. (Score:2, Interesting)
Imagine your PS3 hard drive dies. Your saves are online, or your PS3 is in for repairs. You can still use a buddies PS3 and login to an account and play from your last save. Even upgrading to a new console (of the sony variety) and still having your saves for backwards compatible games. That sort of service gives incentive to buy future products.
Of course there are problems. What if you don't connect your console to the internet? What if the servers hosting your saves go down? Would the servers act as a bac
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If only there weren't possible talks about perhaps not even being able to take your copy of a game to your friend's house to play... http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/01/21/1655259/Sony-Planning-Serial-Keys-For-PS3-Games [slashdot.org]
Granted, I don't think they could pull it off, or it might be tied to your account and not your console, but Sony has tried to implement some rather 'out there' solutions for their problems.
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Nice idea but has potential problems with it, I'm gonna wait until the implementation to pass judgement.. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I have little faith they'll do it right.
I doubt it'll be a privacy or anti-cloud problem, but a locally backed up or drm problem.
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I also want to add that not all users wants to connect to the internet - at all.
I bought the ps3 so that I could try linux on it and to play single player games. In my book that's where I get relaxation, I just get more stressed when playing against others (and in some cases against time). That's why I loved the game skate for instance. No pressure, just cruising around for a few hours etc. I don't need to be "social" in the ps3 - in fact I don't need to be social at all when using a computer. That's why of
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Imagine your PS3 hard drive dies. Your saves are online, or your PS3 is in for repairs. You can still use a buddies PS3 and login to an account and play from your last save. Even upgrading to a new console (of the sony variety) and still having your saves for backwards compatible games. That sort of service gives incentive to buy future products.
Imagine this instead: Sony only allows online savegame storage, without the possibility of local copies (because that might allow someone to duplicate items in game
Moving Forward or Raising Stakes on Jailbreaking? (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, it raises the stakes on what happens if I decide to jailbreak my devices. Is there always going to be a hard copy, or do I get a nastygram message at startup saying "Your account (and all of those saves) have been locked out due to unlicensed use of your hardware"? Let's not forget that many manufacturers (Sony and Nintendo included) are moving towards digital delivery systems.
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Ideally if they can solidly detect your hacking, they'd not just lock you out, they'd either sue you or (if they can find a criminal statute under which to charge you) summon the police.
Deja Vu. (Score:2)
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Kojima's "dream" is not mine (Score:2)
I, for one, do not look forward to a future where games will be developed to run on both the PS3 and the PSP. I didn't buy a PS3 and connect it to my 1080p TV to play games that are designed to look good on a 5" screen.
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As long as the mechanics are the same, who cares if the handheld has scaled down polygons or doesn't render at the same 1080p?
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Have you been absent during the latest era of Console/PC cross-development? They don't design for the high-bar and port down, they design for the low-bar and port up. I know it's a taboo word, but PC games have been 'dumbed-down' so they can also be played on a console. The resolutions and frame-rates are locked, the HUDs use overly large and brightly colored fonts. The controls consist of 4 buttons (which are often displayed on the screen when you are supposed to click them.) The games seem like t
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Or you could wait for the games to come out. Tekken 5: DR on PS3 looked better than Tekken 5: DR Arcade, and it got a PSP release first.
Also, reducing inputs isn't dumbing down games, it's getting smarter about development. A game isn't fun if I'm scrambling to read the manual every 5 minutes to make sure I'm doing something right.
Could be good! (Score:5, Interesting)
That could be really good! So long as I wasn't required to be connected to the internet in order to play my games. If there was some kind of consolecloud replication and games could function in a completely offline state it would be pretty great. It sucks balls when Blizzard is offline and I can't get my StarCraft 2 injection.
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Yes. Because we all know that no one was ever able to play network games before the age of always-on Internet services...
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Could be a decent idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Riiight...this is going to really work...not... (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, what about those that don't HAVE good network access... I've recently been allowed a glimpse into the pain that many have with these idiot notions that you can simply rely on the "cloud" to get updates, demos, etc. It only sort-of works when you've got access to 3-5 Mbits/sec without caps on the bandwidth (3G networking doesn't work overly well for either unless you've got WiMax/LTE and coverage in your area...and even then, the caps cause their own sets of issues.. It only REALLY works if you've got what I've got back at home or higher, which would be 20 Mbits/sec.
Until the ISPs are on the same damn page as the companies wanting "The Cloud" it's a non-play. And that doesn't get into the OTHER problems with "The Cloud"- which would be security and reliability of the supplier in question.
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most of these are just text files. it's not like they are doing a snapshot of the exact graphics
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If you really need that much bandwidth for a save game... the game must really be bad.
I have all my PC game saves synced with one of those online storage services. I do not have to worry about rebuilding the PC anymore. I rebuild, setup my sync, install the game and pick up where I left off. It doesn't require gigabytes of data for save games.
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I can't recall the titles of specific games (and yes, some of them do store screenshots of the games which can add some size to the save file) but I have played several games where save files are over 5 MB. And these were for popular PC, PS2 and Gamecube games.This goes for FPS as much as RPGs. So these save games can take a little while to download/upload. Console games on the whole tended to have the smallest save game files.
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1- 1,000 people in country "X" are upset at the government, and stage protests
2- Government in country "X" decided to cut the internet off to prevent coordination of bigger protests
3- 100,000 console gamers in country "X" can no longer play their saved games, consoles become useless
4- 100,000 console gamers get very mad and very bored
5- Suddenly 101,000 people are protesting for a change in government.
The Cloud... a tool for democracy...
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Uh, what about those that don't HAVE good network access...
oh its easy - you dont get to play :P
Assassin's Creed had cloud saves, didnt work too well for Ubisoft.
There was a VERY NICE talk at last years Defcon about copy protection in games and publishers push for the Cloud integration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDsICTOSVZ4 [youtube.com]
*I* want control, screw you Sony (Score:2)
When I buy a game I want to be able to play it as long as I have the ability to do so (as long as my hardware/emulator still works). If any corporation decides it's no longer profitable to keep up the "cloud storage" for my particular game, am I then no longer able to play?
YOUR Games? (Score:2)
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"Legally" they were never YOUR games.
Yeah ... but why? (Score:2)
Both me and a friend of mine have PS3s, and we take turns visiting each other's homes to play games. So we're in the target audience for this feature.
But we've been getting by just fine by using USB keys.
So ... why would I want to subscribe to (and presumably pay money for) a feature that I already have? Sure, I have to save onto a USB key manually, but it's just an extra minute after our gaming session.
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Hmm, I'm curious which games you've been doing with this. A number of them do not work right or even flat out do not work when transferring games saves like that. In fact, I think for me the majority did not.
Off hand, I recall Arkham Asylum and Resident Evil 5 did not work at all, and Borderlands does not work right (you can no longer earn trophies and you get constant error messages about it).
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I think it's also reasonable to assume Sony will eventually changer for this feature. They'd need to get money to fund the server up keep from somewhere.
You kind of make it sound like we can't live with out a feature that hasn't existed for the PS3 before. Like OMG!! How did we ever communicate with each other before Cell phones were invented?
Also an exploding PS3 wouldn't be a big deal for me. After they pulled the Other OS I stopped buying from Sony. No
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I think it's also reasonable to assume Sony will eventually changer for this feature. They'd need to get money to fund the server up keep from somewhere.
Maybe they'll severely limit the online storage capacity available to non "PSN+" users...
Great idea... (Score:2)
Not!
How the hell will I be able to continue my game when somewhere without cloud access (like in a subway)?
I do hope that this system will implement both local and cloud copies of the save games which are then synched or else the system is utter garbage.
On top of that, why am I being forced to subscribe to a data plan that I DO NOT WANT! Occasional Wifi access is fine for my needs, I don't have a pressing need to tweet my life or check my emails every god damned minute so I don't want to pay for data access
DRM anyone? (Score:2)
Unless you live in Canada (Score:3)
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I am sure Bell and Rogers Communications would be quick to point out that everyone of their customers have "UNLIMITED" bandwidth on ALL their accounts, a first in the world! Of course if you go past whatever arbitrary download/upload cap that they agree to offer you, you will have to pay above and beyond what you currently pay at some exorbitant rate that they will set as high as they think the CRTC will let them get away with, which as it turns out, is pretty much anything...
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For consoles? (Score:2)
We on the PC already have that with Steamcloud. It make some sense, since not only the savegames follow you, but the whole games!.
You get home, and you can ask for download to Steam some games on the computer of your dad, and you will get the games and the savegames. And wen you get home, the savegames will follow you. Or maybe you have a netbook to, so you can start playing a game on the work (*cough*), continue on a laptop, and finish on your home. You can. But the feature is here: who cares about the h
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I'm not sure where you read this was mandatory.
The Kotaku link says: "users will be given the option to upload their saves remotely to a server." (emphasis mine)
Unlikely this will ever actually happen (Score:2)
Remember: a corporation's job is to legally make money by offering value that customers are willing to pay for.
Keeling that in mind, where would the revenue stream be? Unless you can figure out a way to change customers
to prefer your systems over others, that means it's a pay-for service, that it is unlikely many people will pay for.
About the only way I can imagine the numbers working out is if you eliminated the hard disk in new units, making
for a substantial cost savings in hardware. The downside, of cou
Properly implemented, it's a good thing (Score:2)
As expected ... (Score:2)
Sony bashers with conspiracy theories are the first to arrival to the thread.
It's DRM !!!1!!
They will force you to store in the cloud!!!1!!1one!!
etc.
Could we save our outrage after they we get clear confirmation as to what exactly Sony plans to do?
Personally I really doubt Sony will force you to store your save games in the cloud. LOL
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As expected... Sony bashers with conspiracy theories are the first to arrival to the thread.
It's DRM !!!1!!
They will force you to store in the cloud!!!1!!1one!!
Gee, too bad you didn't get first post - else you'd be able to say "INB4 Sony bashers!"
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Just a hunch.
It will create quite a bit of traffic for them for one, they don't even sync trophies in real-time.
Then there are the obvious things, like lost of connection, it would only cause frustration if a save suddenly doesn't work just because the train the player was in entered a tunnel - not to mention not all NGP models have 3G; heck there is no guarantee every PS3 has a connection to the Internet.
Just playing devil's advocate to the negative nancys here. :)
PS: It's quite amusing to see so many peop
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I really shouldn't feed trolls.
OK why?
The ultimate security? (Score:2)
Now explain at last why sports games don't save. (Score:2)
Seriously, I've ALWAYS wondered this. I can play say Grand Theft Whatever or Assassin's This or Star Wars That or Red Dead Data Packets... and the stupid thing is constantly churning autosaves or save sessions or save points. A staple of gaming.
But if I go fire up FIFA 11 or Madden or MLB 2k10, I *HAVE* to play a given game through to the conclusion or leave it paused until I'm done. Why?
Examples: I love a nice leisurely 60-90 minute Madden session, really thinking about the plays, or a leisurely baseball g
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Savegames, now a value-added product? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm all for in-the-cloud saves as an OPTION. My gripe is that how long between offering this as a free service, when cloud-saves are the de-facto standard, and when you have to start paying money to be able to load your save games? Sony, like any good business, is out to put money in their pockets. This seems like an easy way to get more money out of power gamers without irritating the casual crowd enough to affect their bottom line.
Now, give me the ability to push my saves to any server I want and just
Hahahahaha . No. (Score:2)
they started deleting characters, houses, all the accumulations of star wars galaxies characters, before they thought it was unprofitable to keep them, contrary to general practice in mmo world. shows how moronic they are by the way - the players who got their stuff deleted wont return to the game anymore now.
in any case, sony is the LAST
So playing catch up to XBL.... (Score:2)
XBL does this to a degree with achievements. I'm not sure about actual game saves. But in games like Reach, if my console kicked the bucket tomorrow and I got a new one, it would remember that I had beaten the game on legendary, I have the rank of brigadier, and what other stuff I had unlocked. I even get access to that stuff if I recover my gamertag on a friend's Xbox.
I'm not sure if it would remember the exact spot I stopped during my last campaign save or not, but that's moot point to me.
Re:Hm (Score:5, Insightful)
You might like jailbreaking your console, but will you like it as much if your saved games are inaccessible? (maniacal laughter)
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Only pirates play video games offline. No one ever has a good reason not to be online. Off switches are illegal.
Sometimes I'm busy and I like to just have a quick game, but often they require lengthy updates... on a weekly basis.
At one point the updates got so bad I had to log out of PSN just to get some play time.
I don't need updates to plat GTA, Red Dead Redemption, etc... just let me play.
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You can cancel the updates (Circle button = cancel). You just won't be able to play online.
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I like the idea of my save game on a server somewhere and my being able to access it anywhere. Sony's update processes sucks though, I've never had a game or system update that took less than a half hour, god forbid it be an older game as it will take 2 to 3 times longer than that. More often then not I opt to just skip the update process because I don't f
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This is even more annoying when you consider that somehow my Xbox manages to perform similar system and game updates in about 10-20 seconds including restart time which makes it a minor annoyance at worst.
There are strict limits on the allowable size of game patches for X360 games. While this means you'll never be forced to wait for a big patch to download. It also means some games will not be patched at all.
This limit is the reason games like C&C3 and its expansion were not patched on the X360.
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They want everyone keeping all their devices connected to the online hub. This way they can control licensing, require updates, etc., more effectively than they do today.
Exactly, and I can tell you that it is extremely irritating to be frog marched to upgrade city on a regular basis, when trying to get online. For anyone who hasn't been subjected to this humiliation, this is how Sony forces upgrades... do it right now or no online for you.
Sony should instead quit the encyrpted, hardware locked hard drive idiocy. There is no reason whatsoever to do this, locking the hard drive to the processor does not prevent piracy or anything else, it just makes people lose saved data w
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...locking the hard drive to the processor does not prevent piracy or anything else, it just makes people lose saved data when the box dies, which it does on a regular basis. I am now on my third PS3 hard drive, the previous two are both completely functional with completely inaccessible game saves on them.
You know... if the save games are saved on their servers that wouldn't happen...
too much trust (Score:3)
what do you think the chances that Nintendo would still have SNES or hell even NES savegame servers up and working properly now 20 or 25 years after the fact. Would my zelda and Final Fantasy 1 saves still work if I want to pop those games in? Would emulators (which is how I play those games now, even though I DO have a working NES console in a box in the garage) be invalidated as "games played on non-standard/hacked hardware"? Maybe Zelda and FF1 would work just fine because they are high profile, but what
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In this case, no. Cloud saves are something users want (and would pay for in some cases) so Sony can make money by including them as part of a PSN+ sub. I doubt non PSN+ users will get them. I wouldn't be surprised if when the PSP2 turns up that some fashion of 3G access is free to PSN+ users too.
Of course you are right though that the
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Or... It would be easier in general. the game player doesn't need to bother with buying external memory devices and keep track of them only to have the next version not support it. Cloud computing doesn't need to have an evil deed behind it. As it is just a remote server to save your data. Where for most people even techs who know the stuff, the data is probably safer being manged by the company then it is by yourself.
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As always, the solution to a Microsoft problem is in the Knowledge Base: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/981974?sd=xbox [microsoft.com]
The Xbox 360 has always had the ability to backup most of your data through the use of proprietary "Memory Units". With the Spring 2010 Update they added the ability to use standard USB devices as well; granted you do have to partition it to a proprietary format and allow half a gig storage loss for 'security' data. They also impose a 16GB limitation per memory device and allow a max of 2
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If this is a big deal for you, why not just install something like Dropbox [dropbox.com] (referral link [db.tt] if you want extra storage for free) or Spideroak [spideroak.com] (Referral again [spideroak.com] if you want free stuff) and set it up to sync all of your saved games automatically without having to wait for Valve to do
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I also do the same on my PC, but I haven't seen the Dropbox app for the PS3 yet.