PS3 Piracy Threats Cause Phone-Home DRM 256
Stoobalou writes "The last time game developer Capcom tried to impose Internet-based copy protection on one of its games, it was forced to backtrack over a storm of complaints. In that instance Final Fight: Double Impact was hobbled with a piracy-busting scheme which phoned home every time the game was booted, but Capcom forgot to mention that little nugget of information to potential purchasers — an omission which eventually led to the DRM scheme being hastily withdrawn. The company has decided not to repeat the mistake with its latest release, Bionic Commando Rearmed 2, by making it clear that the game won't work unless it gets a sign-off from the company's servers."
Not "causality" (Score:5, Insightful)
No, privacy threats plus Sony's willingness to impose phone-home DRM plus consumers' and legislators' willingness to accept DRM were all contributors.
Everything dies (Score:3, Insightful)
Even corporations.
Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.
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Even corporations. Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.
-1 over-rated??? More like: +1 insightful.
I am with you 100%. Boycott them.
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So? never mind who the hell they blame, if enough people stop giving capcom money, capcom will fold.
And then DRM from every other game company gets stronger.
Even if boycotting them doesnt cause them to fold, i prefer the feeling of not bowing my heads to these kind of shitty DRM-laden products over just going along with the crowd.
Those aren't your only two options. Step one is raising awareness of it. Step two is biting them where it hurts. Go look up what happened to Spore.
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I just wish people would quit treating it like there's only two options.
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P.S.
Another reason it's not acceptable is because I often take my console with me to hotels, whether it's the PSX, the Nintendo, or the Xbox, and often they don't provide more than one internet line (which is used for my laptop). Also the kids in my family don't have their consoles connected online.
That means we'd all have CD/DVD games that refuse to play because they cannot "phone home" to the Game manufacturer's website to verify their validity. - This is a lousy method of copy protecting disks.
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What's that comment about them coming for the communists, but I wasn't a communist, then they came for my XBox but I had a PS3 and then they came for me and there was no one left to fight for me?
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Well, Sony doesn't really have that strong a hand to play if you think about it.
You either appease game publishers, or they don't develop for you. /shrug
Re:Not "causality" (Score:5, Insightful)
Further, Sony has already lost everyone with principles, so now they can continue to abuse their user base which will continue to suck it down gratefully. Anyone who really believes in freedom of Morality decided to refuse to give Sony any more money after the whole Betamax morality police thing. Anyone who is against Fraud chose to stop giving them money after they killed the Dreamcast by publishing specifications for the PS2 that they knew to be false. Anyone who is against having their computer infected with malware stopped giving them money after the Rootkit debacle. Anyone who loves video gaming stopped giving them money after they summoned satan all over Lik-Sang by suing them in every court in the EU for providing hardware with substantial noncommercial use; but they couldn't even afford to respond to the lawsuits so they closed their doors.
Anyone who still gives Sony money is PART OF THE PROBLEM and every conversation you have with them about video games should begin, continue, and end with how they should stop supporting Sony. Anyone who claims to love games and gaming but still gives Sony money is a hypocrite and the enemy of all gamers.
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I wish there were more people like you. Unfortunately most people lose their principles the second they see something shiny they want.
I too have succumbed to temptation a few times, but in general I stick to my principles as much as I can. I too will never support sony, unless they change their ways dramatically. Same goes for Microsoft.
And this includes indirect support as well (buying hardware with licensed-from-sony stuff in it for example)
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I'm still on the fence regarding Microsoft and gaming. On one hand, Microsoft has the evil embrace, extend, extinguish strategy. On the other hand, Microsoft has arguably the most open console (least closed?) of the generation; you can actually develop and release games for an unhacked system without extensive requirements. The PS3 or Wii, of course, has been most opened... by the community. My perception is that there is the most homebrew on the Wii.
It's getting harder and harder to be a gamer. Even old ga
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I would think you can fix the Alpha Centauri issue with a shim. They're pretty easy to make these days.
If you only game with games from companies that never do any wrong, you will never game.
You can buy a PS3, enjoy the games, and ALSO try to get Sony to change policy.
The world is not black and white. Never has been, never will be.
XBox is alright. They haqve done better on the community aspect of console then SOny has. WHat I hate about the XBox is basically three things:
1) I understand it's a tool for them
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Corporations have no principles, with the exception of a few like maybe Google.
They exist to make money, if something stops making them money, they stop doing it.
As for the Dreamcast, what you have observed is a well know tactic known as FUD, pioneered by everyone's "favourite" monopolist MS.
I suppose all that's left is Nintendo, but they have their own skeletons in their closets from the NES/SNES days when they were kingpin.
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I think it boils down to this: The people who only have a cursory inference of what DRM is or how it would work (i.e. Joe AverageConsumer) are 'buying' what the companies are feeding them - "We're hurting because of pirates and we only do this because we have to!"
Until we cha
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1) This is not a response to geohot. This is a response to Sony screwing up the way PSN works and allowing 5 downloads to different PS3s (In contrast to XBLAs binding the first download to the console, not requiring net for that one after and requiring logged in for other downloads)
2) When someone overreacts, I don't blame the triggering event for the overreaction. Blame is mostly on the one that overreacts.
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Yeah! Everything is his fault, not the fault of the paranoid people actually implementing defective DRM that only hurts actual customers and removing features! Down with Geohot! If one person copies a game, absolutely everyone should suffer!
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He didn't copy a game though, he broke the PS3 security cum DRM system and told the whole damn world how he did it.
Some people like the grandparent poster still think Sony removed it for no reason.
Now why the heck would they do that, any idiot can see it will cause a major shitstorm, not to mention removing something is work their programmers have to do.
Sony removed "Other OS" to protect their income, as well as their reputation among both game developers/publishers (for obvious reasons) and gamers (broken
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He didn't copy a game though
Obviously, I was referring to the people who do copy games, not him.
Some people like the grandparent poster still think Sony removed it for no reason.
There was a reason, but not a good one. They basically told all of their legitimate customers that they are garbage and fighting and piracy boogeyman takes priority over them.
Sony removed "Other OS" to protect their income, as well as their reputation among both game developers/publishers (for obvious reasons) and gamers (broken security system = online mulitplayer hacking).
Oh, no! Multiplayer hacks! My life is ruined! Sony should remove all of the features on the console and hurt legitimate buyers instead of going after hackers on an individual basis!
Pissing off a handful of homebrewers was the less of 2 evils for them.
As long as you only hurt the minority, anything is okay. Even if they are your legitimat
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Millions of pissed of gamers vs handful of homebrewers. Pick your poison.
I choose the third option: ban cheaters on an individual basis. No need to remove features from legitimate buyers and claim the minority doesn't count.
See I can do that too.
The difference being that they never needed to remove any features: they could just ban cheaters when they are caught. All they managed to do was anger even more people by doing this.
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It's might hard to do that, with the hypervisior compromised though, having I believe full rein over the PS3 they could evade detection.
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Maybe it would be, but I still believe that to be a better solution than getting rid of features (even if only a minority use the features they remove).
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"He didn't copy a game though, he broke the PS3 security cum DRM system and told the whole damn world how he did it."
Where the hell do you get your information from?
He did do a lot of stuff but he was only a part of the whole. He did find a glitch about a year ago, which may have helped kick things off. Then the dongles came along from PSJailbreak, whoever they are, that broke things wide open and were of course cloned endlessly.
Then failoverflow cracked the system wide open, and geohot took their technique
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I read it when Geohot told the entire world how the "glitch" was done - also the was what prompt Sony to remove "Other OS".
Wikipedia confirms it. (I know not the most reliable source; but it would be a hell of a coincident if it ain't true, as it agrees pretty much with what I remember reading)
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The first glitch that allowed him to dump memory from OtherOS, sure, that was him.
That required a hardware mod and didn't open up the system much at all but it did prompt sony to take away OtherOS in a massive overreaction. Almost as if they were looking for a way to stop supporting it anyway...
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The first glitch gave him control over the hypervisor allowing him to mess with the PS3 firmware, else I really doubt Sony would react in such a huge manner.
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Assumption, assumption.
They probably removed it to cut cost on the slims.
You are assuming they would remove it from the fat.
And if you think about it, removing features from products retroactively is in general a bad idea from a PR perspective, I think they would prefer to patch away the problem if they could (like they did with PSP flaws, etc the very first one which was an exploit via a flawed lib for viewing TIFF).
This time round however I believe they didn't really have much of a choice.
Geohot himself p
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If it wasn't in the slim, why support more firmware revs than absolutely required? It's a nice cost saving move as well.
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And if you think about it, removing features from products retroactively is in general a bad idea from a PR perspective
And that is precisely why blaming the removal of the OtherOS on a "Hacker" and claiming it's to prevent piracy is a convenient excuse for Sony to do something they were already going to do. By blaming piracy and claiming it was to protect the system they can at least give the Sony fanboys something to be delusional about.
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Don't think it's all that costly to maintain 2 version of the firmware, chances are they have to do it anyway since the hardware is different to some extend.
Not to mention I think they rather eat a relatively minor cost than go through the shitstorm from retroactively removing a feature, it doesn't hold up as a good reason to remove the "Other OS" IMO.
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Less code = less code to maintain. Code isn't free, it costs time, which can cost a company a lot of money.
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If it wasn't in the slim, why support more firmware revs than absolutely required?
How about because it was sold to me that way? I bought it with, and because of, the OtherOS. I was using my system as a media server, gaming console and a development testing box.
Seriously, if you took your car in for servicing and were told the new model of your car doesn't have an AC/heating system so the one in your car will be removed. Otherwise the new model of gas tank won't be installed and you won't be able to buy from stations using a newer type of gas. Would you just let them do it with out bein
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Still... if you weight the benefits, it's better to maintain 2 code bases than risk a shitstorm and bad press.
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you're approaching correct, but you still took a swerve off the road into the bushes of WTFsylvania.
Geohot did manage to pass the hypervisor working through OtherOS. He then told NOBODY how he did it. He boasted that he did it, and the vector he used to get in, but no details at all for anybody to exploit his work for piracy, or even to replicate it. Sony went apeshit though and accelerated plans that were -already in motion- to remove OtherOS post haste. That lit a fire under the collective hackers of the
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He told you the attack vector ... I think that enough information to replicated it, or at least make it a whole lot easier.
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Yes?
A flaw in the way MS Office hands a Word document could result in arbitrary code execution with a maliciously crafted Word document.
PDFs seem to get a lot of these bugs.
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For one, that doesn't give Sony the right to yank a feature that was duly advertised as a value added feature. As the various class action lawsuits claim, purchasers have been denied "the benefit of their bargain".
Secondly, it's not Geohot's *fault* that the pirates who were looking for an excuse/loophole to pirate decided to use his work. Geohot enabling them doesn't make him an accessory because he did his work independently, and the pirates exploited his work of their own free will. It's not Geohot's
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No he is referring to an early hack where he gained control over the PS3's hypervisior by exploit the feature know as "Other OS" and via bus glitching.
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The internet allows infinite duplication at almost no cost. People know this and are demanding that they can get their goods for free, or almost-free.
Cheap duplication does not mean the costs of creating the content are reduced. Some people think so, and thus are demanding goods for free. Fortunately many of us still pay so that the content can be produced, otherwise the freeloaders would have no-one to leach off.
Don't give your paying customers a reason to quit (Score:5, Insightful)
Buyers will buy.
But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.
Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (Score:5, Insightful)
If this scheme seems to work other games will follow - as will other publishers.
So by avoiding buying the games you are sending a clear signal to the publisher that this is method that isn't acceptable.
And what happens if there is a DoS attack on the servers?
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No you're not and that's the problem. By not buying the game you're sending a clear signal that you found a way to pirate it and so they need to add even more draconian anti-piracy measures to their next release.
Hi Ubisoft!
Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why is adamantly defend Valve and their "it'll be late but by God it'll work" approach to releasing games, arguments over Steam as DRM aside.
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Also the kids in my family don't have their consoles connected online, so that means we'd all have games that refuse to play because they cannot "phone home" to the Game manufacturer's website.
Ditto with My kids.
They don't have internet-connected consoles, so how are they supposed to play Capcom games? I guess Capcom lost several million customers with this decision.
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This game is only purchasable on consoles that are currently online. If your consoles have never been online, then... no problem!
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But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.
This. Also, instead of investing so much money into DRM research, they could just cut game prices and see their sales go up. $80/60euro per game? Please.
This (Score:2)
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No idea why publishers are so obsessed with DRM.
So either it really does increase sales, or they are crazy.
No one spends millions on some tech (DRM in this case) when there is no return.
I'm not supporting this BS BTW, just wondering why.
Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (Score:4, Insightful)
For some reason, control is more important than profit to some companies.
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Amen bro. This is especially true for Asian companies in general, and Japanese companies in particular.
I work for LG (electronics repair) and they have a very strict way of doing stuff. If you screw up, even a single digit in a 20-digit serial number, they cancel your order, don't pay, and bill you for the parts you used for them. Sony has a similar policy. It's fine by me, I just overbill them as much as I can. In the end I get more money from them than if they tried to do things right (and let you, you kn
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You seem to think this is something that they experimentally test in a lab and determine to be true or false. Reality is that game launches are so unique depending on so many factors both internal to the game and external in the market that nobody really can measure it. The same game has never launched at the same time in the same way both with and without DRM - and if you did that'd be pointless because it would essentially be like launching without DRM.
Publishers do things they think contribute positively
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They are all convinced they are super smart industry leaders. As such, it is impossible that people might not think their game is not worth $50-$60 and not play it. So clearly if they haven't sold a copy for every man, woman, and child with access to a TV and electricity, the difference is clearly piracy.
They've got to tell the shareholders something... (Score:2)
One of the keys to selling that people always forget, it doesn't have to be true as long as the person buys & you've got enough plausible deniability to beat back the lawsuit.
Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu (Score:5, Insightful)
How can you blame these poor little companies for implementing DRM? If one person copies a game, all must suffer! If you were a legitimate buyer, you'd know that...
Oh, and, this is all Geohot's fault, not the people implementing the DRM or removing the features to feed their paranoia! That's right. All buyers must receive defective products because some people copy games. This makes sense to those of us who don't steal profit that doesn't yet exist.
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Pirates will Pirate .....
Buyers will give up and do something else
The last DRM'ed game I bought took so long and so much hassle to get updated, running etc that it was easier and less hassle to download a hacked version and play that rather than the legit one I owned ...!
DVDs are the same, the legit ones have so much unskippable rubbish on them that I consider getting a pirated version so I can watch the movie I have payed for ...
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I regularly do this with PC games that require the CD be in to play, I will purchase the game and then download the No-CD crack for it.
I dont think so (Score:5, Insightful)
The Timing Is Odd (Score:2)
The odd thing about this is that even with the release of the console's important keys, it's still not practical to pirate PSN games. You can pirate PS3 games that come on a disc until you're blue in the face, but the tools don't exist to do so with newer PSN games - as a result only a small number of them can be pirated at the moment.
Either Capcom knows something we don't know or they're preparing for the inevitable, because right now you'd be hard pressed to pirate BCR2 even without phone-home DRM.
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So they're removing another feature...
Smartest way to kick your customers SONY...
Keep it (Score:2)
It just went through the hassle of dealing with Steam support because I was unable to access my account to play Civ V.
Response time was a little over 24 hours and they call this customer service.
This was the last time I purchased a game with DRM because only pirated DRM games are customer friendly!
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Not to defend Steam here, but 24 hours isn't a bad resolution time for a service which, to my knowledge, doesn't actually have any stated SLAs for support.
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Except that this is not a service, it's a non-monetary fee.
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Try playing a Steam-powered game on a marginal internet connection sometime. It will take longer to connect to your Steam account than it will to launch the damned game. Or you can set offline mode and then it STILL connects to Steam. WTF?
I generally like Capcom... (Score:2)
But with they can stick that game where the sun doesn't shine, for me. I hope it sells really bad.
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Indeed.
I must say, it's kinda nice of Capcom to give such a clear and unambiguous reason not to buy "Bionic Commando Rearmed 2" -- often it's kind of hard to decide whether to buy a game ("is it worth the money?".. "do I trust reviewer X?"... "should I finish up those other games first ...?"), but no such problem here....
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I just don't get it (Score:2)
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15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.
T&Cs - "Capcom reserve the right to shutdown the servers and use them for a newer game which people are now paying for thus screwing you out of your purchased product. Tick the box and click next if you understand this or just can't be bothered reading it".
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In 15 years, you are expected to buy it again this time an version ported to the console in use at that time.
The whole DRM thing, made me give up gaming on the PC(starforce made my hw look defective and i ended up buying new HW i didnt need) and lately I have given up on console also.
Mostly because the have gotten the clever idea to sell a game at 110$(local price converted to $) which is only half the game. The rest you have to buy via DLC, so it is locked to you account or console and the resell value of
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It's not Capcom's servers, it's Sony's.
This protection is an API built into PSN.
Bionic DRM (Score:2)
We're so sorry that we created such an awful DRM system without telling you what we were doing ... to fix that problem and regain the trust of our customers we will now tell you exactly how badly our DRM system will screw over legitimate users. But at least we know that no one can find any way to crack the airtight PS3 security lockdown.
And next time we come out with a game we'll make sure to have a completely non-invasive DRM scheme that simply involves implanting a CAPCOM chip in your frontal lobe so tha
The PS3 is the last console (Score:5, Interesting)
I buy. I have 2 PS3's in my home one for the kids and one for me. I game on the average 5 to 10 hours a week.
It was fun at the beginning with OtherOS. In regards to peoples complaint about pirates and cheating, I find it's more an issue of poor development. I do not see any noticeable change. Sometimes I'm in a game of BC2 that I can't seem to hit anything even when I empty 100 rounds in the back of some unsuspecting chap. Other times it feels that every confrontation I'm in I win. This applies to almost all MP games, CoDMW, MAG and so on... It's nothing new and it has not changed much since the jailbreak.
I bought the systems for entertainment and in most cases to clear my mind form the day to day issues. Since Sony removed the Other OS I find the PS3 more of a means of frustration than a means of entertainment. Most of the time I have under an hour to play. These constant updates take over 15 minutes to complete and won't work in the background. Once installed and rebooted you go through a 2 to 5 minute wait just to get in to load the game and view all the ads. Once you're finally in you get a no games available message. It used to happen occasionally. Since the last update it seams to happen 4 out of 5 times. I initially thought it was my cable provider until I started researching on the net.
My PS3's are no longer entertaining for MP purposes. I'm not alone, most of my friends got fed up before me. I'm not interested in SP games with the same problems. It's time to jailbreak and pirate, in this way I will still get some entertainment from my console. All this to say I will never purchase anymore products from Sony let alone any draconian DRM laden sh1t unless the attitude changes.
A bit late for that (Score:2)
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Constant 15 minutes updates? Ads!?
It is like you are in an abusive relationship, but cannot walk away... I am serious: you are taking an abuse that a normal person would not tolerate. Maybe there is something to game addiction.
"to clear my mind form the day to day issues." - try exercise, sports, scrabble, jigsaw puzzle, listen to music as an alternative.
I wish you well.
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In regards to peoples complaint about pirates and cheating, I find it's more an issue of poor development. I do not see any noticeable change. Sometimes I'm in a game of BC2 that I can't seem to hit anything even when I empty 100 rounds in the back of some unsuspecting chap. Other times it feels that every confrontation I'm in I win.
That sounds like lag, not poor development. Though maybe it's poor that developers don't indicate when lag is happening. They prefer to lie for a smoother user experience (which works out OK when you've got minor lag). How to handle lag is a difficult problem for real-time games.
Most of the time I have under an hour to play. These constant updates take over 15 minutes to complete and won't work in the background.
The updates average less than once a month, can be downloaded automatically, and in my experience do not take 15 minutes to install. More like 5 minutes or less.
Once installed and rebooted you go through a 2 to 5 minute wait just to get in to load the game and view all the ads.
What ads? Is this a particular game that does this?
Once you're finally in you get a no games available message. It used to happen occasionally. Since the last update it seams to happen 4 out of 5 times. I initially thought it was my cable provider until I started researching on the net.
Is this just for a p
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Well, that will be a game that sells well.
Most homes where this will be bought have always on Internet anyway. How many people here specifically turn on their router when they want to go online? Besides which, this is a game designed to be played online with others. TFS only linked to a little diatribe that didn't actually link back to the source. Actual entry for this story on PSN is here [playstation.com].
Besides, the game is not unique in this. Dragon Age II will make periodic calls home to check it's legit. Is that game going to do badly, too? Linking a game
Re:A no go (Score:4, Informative)
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Nintendo consoles have always trended towards younger audiences, and probably ~50% of Wii owners are kids or teens who don't have permission to get online.
I think Wii is actually the best to have online, since it has all those classic Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and N64 games. Also Sega Master System and Genesis and Commodore 64 games. It's a sweet deal. (IMHO)
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Except the games are 100% bound to the console. Console dies, and say bye bye to those games.
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I agree with that, but the Wii Remote on a jailbroken Wii is perfect for playing emulated classic Nintendo games. For most of the other consoles, it's not even a good fit unless you buy their wacky controller with a cord that plugs into the remote.
I can't imagine buying the games online. On the other hand, Super Mario Bros. 3 is cheaper on the Wii online store than it is to buy a used NES cartridge.
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I dont go online with my PS3 its in the family room, haven't hacked it either but i'm not going to be forced to put it online, I've taken it into my office and run updates a few times but no way i'm going to do that everytime the kids or i want to play a game. Hopefully there will be noticeable warning on the box for titles that do that.
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it will be in 3 point font in a font color that is only 2 shades lighter than the background
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No, that 3 point font in a font color 2 shades lighter than the background will refer you to the "full EULA available in the EULA display department."
The EULA display department is, of course, in the third subbasement of Capcom's headquarters. Past where the stairs and light have gone, so you'll have to bring a ladder and torch. Keep going and you'll find a disused lavatory with a sign saying "beware the leopard", in which there's a locked filing cabinet with the key broken off inside the lock...
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That is just ludicrous!
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You must not be a Netflix subscriber, then.
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Which is precisely what will happen. Hell, I won't be surprised if it doesn't set a new standard for being the most pirated PS3 game ever just out of spite.
Apropos Title (Score:3)
Would you buy a game called Bionic Commando Rear Med? It sounds like a Hemorrhoid Medicine or Mechanized Prostate exam. I bet this is referes to the advanced rectal cancer screening practiced by Goatse. Perhaps it a deranged euphemism for some sexual assualt. perhaps the game "turd burgular 2" was taken.
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Yupe. That seems to be the official reason.
http://kotaku.com/5751122/why-would-a-game-with-no-online-play-require-an-online-connection