Free DARPA Software Lets Gamers Hunt Submarines 213
coondoggie writes "If you have ever wanted to go torpedo-to-torpedo with a submariner, now is your chance. The crowdsource-minded folks at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency rolled out an online game that lets players try to catch elusive, quiet enemy submarines. According to DARPA the Sonalysts Combat Simulations Dangerous Waters software was written to simulate actual evasion techniques used by submarines, challenging each player to track them successfully."
they should crowdsource real world data too (Score:3)
let free range armchair analysts catch things they miss
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I was wondering what would happen if we were *really* in a war with someone like Russia, and you just THOUGHT you were playing a game, but come to find out you were really controlling some defense system, and just killed a few hundred people in the real world.
Yes, sounds more like a movie than real life, but we aren't that many years away (in a technical possibility) from when a "citizen militia" might control expendable drones for defense.
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I was wondering what would happen if we were *really* in a war with someone like Russia, and you just THOUGHT you were playing a game, but come to find out you were really controlling some defense system, and just killed a few hundred people in the real world.
Greetings, Professor Falken.
How about a nice game of chess?
Global Thermonuclear War (Score:4, Insightful)
I was wondering what would happen if we were *really* in a war with someone like Russia, and you just THOUGHT you were playing a game, but come to find out you were really controlling some defense system, and just killed a few hundred people in the real world.
Greetings, Professor Falken. How about a nice game of chess?
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Doh, I should have known that. Orson Scott Card lives here in Greensboro, NC and writes articles for The Rhino Times [wikipedia.org].
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Concepts were great, Orson Scott Card just writes like a 3 year old.
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so declassify the data (Score:2)
the enemy can even participate in deciphering the data. you're not telling them what you know, because every analyst gets a tiny bit of the picture. the only problem is too many poison nodes: nodes that make positive ids, but don't report it, on purpose (instead reporting to their own sub that they're being discovered). i guess they could also flood the system with false positives
poison nodes you could solve with redundancy: if 4/5 nodes report a positive, there is a disagreement where the poison node is fo
no you miss my point (Score:2)
each node you are giving a tiny chunk of data. its like you have a map 1 mile square, and you are giving each node only a square inch. doesn't tell the enemy how big you map is, how many nodes you have, how many datapoints, etc,. and each square inch is nameless: you can't tell where it's from. unless the enemy controls a lot of nodes, they know nothing
Already been done. (Score:3)
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You sunk my battleship.
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Isn't a more appropriate game Depth Charge [wikipedia.org]?
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I played this one a fair bit: http://www.giantbomb.com/das-boot-german-u-boat-simulation/61-19965/ [giantbomb.com]
It came out in 1990.
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Or this, [wikipedia.org] which I put a fair amount of hours into when I was younger.
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I was pretty good at it [wikipedia.org] when I was a kid.
I see your battleship, and raise you a fleetwide combat sim [subsim.com].
Cool idea, actually... (Score:3)
At the end of your "mission" you're asked whether you'd like to submit your (anonymous) game to the DARPA for them to analyze your tactics and how well they worked out:
As you complete each scenario in the simulation you will be asked if you would like to submit data about your game play to our database for analysis. The data collected doesn't contain any information about you or your computer, or anything else outside of what you did with ACTUV and how well it worked. Good or bad, please agree to submit your data for analysis so that we can see what tactics work (or don't work!).
Who knows... somebody out there might come up with a strategy that nobody ever thought of before.
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I couldn't find the online gaming link. Unless they donate a laptop to me, and provide for a diet so that I feel like lugging it around, then they will never know my strategy.
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I love systematic rebuttals of entire posts. I was going to generally flame him, but you've already done a much better job of it that I could have.
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Don't do it because if you do post a strategy nobody ever though of before, you will get visited by a general the next day and then woosh get beamed up to some spaceship built from alien technology.
You say that like it's a bad thing....
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Don't do it because if you do post a strategy nobody ever though of before, you will get visited by a general the next day and then woosh get beamed up to some spaceship built from alien technology.
You say that like it's a bad thing....
Agreed... If I recall that guy even got a hot alien girlfriend for a few weeks before she was murdered. Plus working with rush would be a pleasure compared to those I currently work with. Plus plus at least when you're told "we're all going to die if you can't get this alien server up and running again!!!" it wouldn't be a fucking exaggeration.
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Don't do it because if you do post a strategy nobody ever though of before, you will get visited by a general the next day and then woosh get beamed up to some spaceship built from alien technology.
+1 for SGU reference.
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You don't think it's possible for an agency like DARPA to figure out who is using a particular IP? They say the data is anonymous because 1) it makes people feel better and 2) it is anonymous, at least until they want to put a name to your IP. If someone is beating all of their simulations, you better bet that they would want to contact that person and at least offer them a job.
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At the end of your "mission" you're asked whether you'd like to submit your (anonymous) game to the DARPA for them to analyze your tactics and how well they worked out:
As you complete each scenario in the simulation you will be asked if you would like to submit data about your game play to our database for analysis. The data collected doesn't contain any information about you or your computer, or anything else outside of what you did with ACTUV and how well it worked. Good or bad, please agree to submit your data for analysis so that we can see what tactics work (or don't work!).
Who knows... somebody out there might come up with a strategy that nobody ever thought of before.
Don't do it because if you do post a strategy nobody ever though of before, you will get visited by a general the next day and then woosh get beamed up to some spaceship built from alien technology.
Emphasis mine. How can DARPA send someone to meet you if they don't even track who you are?
It's a misquote, should read:
At the end of your "mission" you're asked whether you'd like to submit your data (to anonymous)and to the DARPA for them to analyze your tactics and how well they worked out:
"But they said" (Score:5, Funny)
Anyone who's read Xenocide, by Orson Scott Card, is now fidgeting nervously.
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Why? Xenocide was about a 3 intelligent species living together on a planet trying to prevent the evil humans blowing them up. Everyone knew what they were doing, most especially the captain with his finger on the trigger of the doomsday device.
Ender's Game on the other hand, that might cause a shudder.
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Ender's Game on the other hand, that might cause a shudder.
Or saw The Last Starfighter (IMDB=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087597/ , wikipedia=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Starfighter).
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Yea the first think I thought was Holly Last Starfighter Batman. Reminds me of a friend of mine that loved to play Red Storm Rising on his C64. We joked that he was going to have the Navy knock on his door one day.
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Re:"But they said" (Score:5, Funny)
That was my first thought -- "How do we know this isn't a trick like in Ender's Game?"
Only because it's too obvious. When the government really wants people to unwittingly direct battles from afar, it releases the software under its other label, EA.
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That was my first thought -- "How do we know this isn't a trick like in Ender's Game?"
I was going to say "because we have journalists covering it and would see reports in the media." But I see your point. Here in the U.S., our best news reports are on a comedy channel.
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Do you really believe that the government doesn't control many aspects of the media? Ever notice how there's always some high-profile celeb story constantly on the news whenever there is something going on that the government doesn't want anyone paying attention to?
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Well, yeah. There's also always some high-profile celeb story constantly on the news whenever there *isn't* something going on. Welcome to television news. This must be your first time here.
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They do not. Even when they gave money too broadcaster to have news they didn't control the news. Stop talking out your ass.
Do they try to control the data that comes from a specific branch? yes, but that is different.
The reason their is high profile celebs is for the same reason a celeb becomes high profile: viewers are paying attention and they get eye balls.
Confirmation bias.
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First the drones... (Score:2)
How long before the actual drones are carrying torpedoes (or are themselves torpedoes), and there will be armchair NAVY operators shooting at vessels from the comfort of a naval base? It has worked similarly with Predator drones.
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sooner better then later. If we can get the advantages of a submarine, without having to staff the submarine, that's a good thing.
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If so, I don't think they're planning on using it much mid-mission. From the PDF [fbo.gov] on the drones (pg. 6):
Autonomy
Independently deployable unmanned system
Sparse shore-based remote supervisory command and control model
Capable of autonomous risk-based mission continuation through command and control interruptions
Adaptive constraint set based on strategic context, mission phase, internal state, and external conditions
Compliance with the Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREGS) and maritime law
High fidelity surface navigation and situational awareness sensors
High fidelity internal state awareness and dynamic performance assessment
It seems like they're planning on launching these things and then having them operate completely autonomously - most likely it'll only communicate with its land-based handlers at the very beginning/end of its mission.
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That problem was solved a long time ago, how do you think subs receive orders while submerged? Extremely low frequency transmissions is how.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency#Military_Communications [wikipedia.org]
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These drones will be underwater, which means it'll be very difficult to make radio communication with them. Also you have to keep in mind that underwater tracking and evasion depends very highly upon stealth. It probably wouldn't be broadcasting anything to avoid giving away its presence.
I find that interesting because it implies that the intelligence required to navigate the sub and track enemies will probably have to be built in to the sub's on-board computer rather than having someone control a dumb dron
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency#Military_Communications [wikipedia.org]
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Way too low of a bandwidth for any type of remote control.
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Two factors limit the usefulness of ELF communications channels: the low data transmission rate of a few characters per minute and... the antenna must be at least... 3,450 to 5,996 km (2,140 to 3,726 mi) long.
Radio controlled subs ain't happening.
Obligatory (Score:2, Funny)
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In Soviet Russia, Commanders have Scottish accents.
No thanks! (Score:2, Insightful)
So I'd be helping them with building better weapons (even unmanned killing machines!) by playing games? No thanks!
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Yes, it's far Superior to use old weapons that kill more people whoa rent intended target.
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no it;s not. It may be rare* where you would have three or more subs. In that situation you certainly could sink the wrong sub...or ship.
Anyways, my point was directed building better weapon in general.
*or maybe not.
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Yea because nobody else is building weapons. It is a nice fantasy land you live in too bad that it isn't real.
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You're not getting it. At least *I* am not helping anyone with building better weapons. Not in my country, nor any other one. When you're playing this game and send in the results, you get involved in weapon development. I won't.
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I do get it. Thing is I want my nation to have the biggest stick. I may help to keep the real wackos under control. History has shown time and time again that when democratic nations disarm the none democratic nation decide to start wars. No one starts a war they think they can not win. What is funny is that you are doing nothing but trying to make yourself feel superior. "Look at me I am not going to help develop weapons I am so enlightened". But you pay our taxes so you are still helping to develop weapo
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why not?
Modern weapons mean fewer people die.
Modern weapons is why instead of carpet bombing and entire city, we can target a specific building with a high rate of accuracy. If we get real good at detected and finding submarines, it will render that tactic invalid. Meaning less underwater combat.
Greetings Starfighter (Score:5, Funny)
You have been selected [wikipedia.org] to defend the Frontier from Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada.
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Why wouldn't you want to eliminate the aliens trying to eliminate you?
Ender's Game gets way too much praise here on /. It's ending was weak.
Someone at DARPA watching The Last Starfighter... (Score:3)
I wonder who shows up at your door when you get really good?
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Take too many drugs, choke on his own vomit, and die.
Are you sure you're choosing the right person to emulate?
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More likely it'll be
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/08/arts/09count600.jpg [nytimes.com]
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I wonder who shows up at your door when you get really good?
Your mother. "In to bed, buster. Now!"
Do you want to play a game? (Score:2)
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The only way to win is to drain the tub.
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Nuke it from orbit; It's the only way to be sure.
Go hog wild (Score:2)
Dear Slashdot mods: demand original source links. (Score:5, Interesting)
The Slashdot post is about a cool game website. It has a link in it. Where does it go? Not to the game, but to Network World's article describing it. This happens ALL THE TIME, and it's is no coincidence: article authors are using Slashdot to drive traffic to their own sites. Network World in particular does this *constantly*.
Refuse to play along. Slashdot moderators should reject articles which don't link to original source data. "Scientists publish interesting paper" should link to the Nature journal article, not to Bob's Science Blog. "Company releases new geek toy" should link to the vendor's website, not myawesometoyblog.com. Make Slashdot an information source, not a spam factory.
Re:Dear Slashdot mods: demand original source link (Score:4, Insightful)
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Many of us have institutional access to various journals or conference proceedings, but for those that don't, if a blog or site has a decent analysis but no link to the source from which they drew their analysis, then how can you trust anything they say? How can you critique, criticize, fact check, or investigate what they say without access to the original material? More importantly, why doesn't this worry you?
Linking to a blog is fine, so long as there is a link to the original source as well, either in t
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Oh, and to justify my singling out of Network World for this sort of abuse: try search the Slashdot archives for "networkworld". [slashdot.org]
They get about a dozen stories a week uploaded to Slashdot, most of which are just generic nerd news reports, all of which include just a single link to Network World, never a link to original source reports. "FBI Wants You To Solve Encrypted Notes From Murder" links to Network World, not the FBI. "NASA Green-lights $16.5M To Advance Future Jets" links to Network World, not to
NCD (Score:2)
No can do.
The acronym isn't l33t enough.
That other one they mention, though, the "Experimental Crowd-derived Combat-support Vehicle"? Which any normal editor would shorten to "ECDCSV", but DARPA's uber-h4xx0rs turned into "XC2V"? That's the one I want to drive into the valley of the shadow of death and fuck some charlie up with. Virtually, of course. Because if I care about its fucking acronym I'm not the type to be putting my fleshy mass in harm's way for some shit like freedom and rights and shit.
Taken to it's logical conclusion.... (Score:2)
...can't they pipe real time sensor data into the internet, and let the gamers directly control the countermeasures? Why have a trained, staffed military when you can just start a new "battle" online that contains real data, rather than computer made up data for once? The gamers never even need to know!
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The gamers never even need to know!
They don't!
hmmm... (Score:3)
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Ok, this thing looks cool and I totally wanna try it out, but there's no way in hell I'm downloading an executable from DARPAs website and running it on my PC. I suspect what they are really testing has absolutely nothing to do with submarines.
Does it run on linux?
Why is it so hard? (Score:3)
Direct link (Score:3)
https://actuv.darpa.mil/Default.aspx [darpa.mil]
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^^^^^^^
This. Mod up, since the summary failed to link it and the article only gives you a link that's twice-removed from the download page.
GlobalThermoNuclearWar (Score:2)
Online? (Score:2)
Where's this online game again? I see a link that takes me to a link to a zip file.
On another note, I love links inside an article to take me to other places, but if it's about one specific link, put that in the notes at the bottom or something...
Am I the only one (Score:2)
Let's get real here (Score:2)
Been there, done that. (Score:2)
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Sounds like Ender's Game to me. How would the player know if the data they are being fed is simulated or gathered from actual sensors?
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Sounds like Ender's Game to me. How would the player know if the data they are being fed is simulated or gathered from actual sensors?
Are we at war with anyone with submarines this week? Didn't get that memo.
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Are we at war with anyone with submarines this week?
Do U.S. intelligence services only monitor those vessels belonging to nations with which we are currently at war? When was the last time we went to war against Russia or China? How much do you want to bet that we are currently attempting to monitor the movements of Russian and Chinese submarines?
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Are we at war with anyone with submarines this week? Didn't get that memo.
Yes, actually, we are [wired.com]... or at least the multi-hundred billion dollar 'defense' sector charged with defending the free world from unlicensed botanical products is.
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What in the shit just happened
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Greetings, Starfighter. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan armada.
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Lance Guest was the actor in The Last Starfighter not Kenny Reeves.
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Or Ender Wiggin.
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