Notch Asks For Trial By Combat 205
Vrallis writes "As reported recently, Mojang AB, the creators of Minecraft, have been sued by Bethesda over the name of their latest project, Scrolls, citing a trademark infringement with their Elder Scrolls games. In his latest blog post, Notch, the founder of Mojang, has challenged Bethesda to a trial by combat. Specifically, a frag match in Quake 3."
Mods (Score:4, Funny)
He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game (Score:5, Informative)
I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod.
According to the article, the sides alternate choosing levels. But seeing as Bethesda's parent company owns Id Software, three of Bethesda's best warriors might be people who actually developed Q3A. So in a sense, it already is on Bethesda's home turf.
Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game (Score:5, Insightful)
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I forget which documentary it was in, but there was an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto where he played a game of Donkey Kong and died on the first level.
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Just because you make a song, doesn't mean you can make the top score on it in Guitar Hero.
Just because you make Q3A doesn't mean you can make top score in it. Video game developments and FPS game players develop different skill sets.
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If you want an employee that can play the game, you want a tester, not a developer.
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If you want an employee that's good at playing the game, you want a gameplay designer. id Software has on more than one occasion worked together with professional Quake 3 players to create content that appeals to the wishes of the competitive player.
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John Romero begs to differ... :P
Re:He challenged Idthesda to an Idthesda game (Score:4, Interesting)
And why would I listen to a head on a stick that talks backwards and I pelted with about 500 rockets?
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Instagib is fun and all, but Generations Arena is the only way to go with Quake3. :)
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I assume that, in the old dueling tradition, his opponent gets to choose the mod. I recommend INSTAGIB.
Personally, I'd choose a fucking big rock to drop on the head of the person sitting at a computer thinking they were duelling.
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I am tremendously entertained by the possibility of this (A) happening and (B) being legally binding.
Game on!
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Not at all.
See, Notch will lose, and have to turn the name Scrolls loose to Bethesda Studios.*
In the meantime he will have gained so much publicity that he could rename the game [to be] previously known as "Scrolls" to "Sacks of Donkey Poo" and people (those who matter) would buy it in a heartbeat.
-nB
*(sorry best I could do with the lose/loose issue)
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Voo isn't as good as he used to be.
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Now this is scary, does that mean that /. is full of active QL players? Will everyone ragequit just before the thread ends?
Win-win i guess? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yep. They should have the match refereed by Barbara Streisand.
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He can then decide to call it "The Elder"
A better name (Score:2)
Re:A better name (Score:4, Informative)
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Nah, if he loses he'll change the name to Scrollz.
Someone's been watching too much Game of Thrones (Score:5, Interesting)
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I'm sure that's about as valid as other unusual laws that are, in theory, still on the books--can't play hopscotch on a Sunday, can't dress a donkey in a sundress in rainy weather, etc.
And of course he's been watching Game of Thrones... he even said that in his blog post!
(Off topic: This is probably the best book adaptation to film/tv I've ever seen, well beyond even Lord of the Rings or the Sci-Fi mini series version of Dune and Children of Dune. Those have been my yardsticks to measure other adaptations
Re:Someone's been watching too much Game of Throne (Score:5, Interesting)
I do remember reading that, according to some interpretations, Trial by Combat *may indeed* be legal under the US legal system [wikipedia.org]...
And there is a history of trademark disputes being settled this way. [wikipedia.org]
I request a champion.... (Score:2)
my brother, Fatal1ty.
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But you'll have to settle for Bronn... Don't worry, he's your kind of fellow...
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If they agree to it in a well-written contract, it's absolutely legal. This is a civil suit we're talking about, after all, and the contract doesn't involve anything illegal AFAIK. (IANAL)
What's more impressive? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Yeah, I'm a bit surprised. I think I submitted it less than three hours ago, too.
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That's OK, though. Someone will work Bitcoins into it and it'll be like braaaand new.
At least for the first couple of times it's duped that way.
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What's impressive is that this made its way onto /. after, not before, it was published, given the hivemind's love of all things Notch.
What a bunch of pricks. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Correction: Bethesda's lawyers are being total assholes here.
Nothing surprising, I'm sure most law firms reject any résumé that does not include "Being a stubborn asshole" in the first paragraph.
Re:What a bunch of pricks. (Score:4)
Correction: Bethesda's lawyers are being total assholes here.
Nope, they are just helping Bethesda defend their trademark (remember, if you dont defend it, you lose it, especially since Notch is also is also in the same gaming business).
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The title of Notch's game doesn't contain the word "Elder." Are there other similarities I'm not aware of? How likely is it really that someone else would come along, make shovelware, slap an "Elder Scroll" title on it, and when challenged say "But they didn't sue that guy for using half the title, so they don't care!" If their lawyers are being too unrealistic and paranoid in "d
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The lack of aggressively defending your trademark can cause you to lose it in the future.
That is at least part of why the Second Life lawyers granted a license to the getafirstlife guy.
(a copy of the "cease and desist" letter is here: http://farmersreallysucks.com/editorialgetafirstlife.shtml [farmersreallysucks.com])
-nB
Re:What a bunch of pricks. (Score:5, Informative)
Nope, they are just helping Bethesda defend their trademark (remember, if you dont defend it, you lose it, especially since Notch is also is also in the same gaming business).
They can't lose something that they have never had. Bethesda do not have "Scrolls" as a trademark for a computer game, and do not stand to lose "The Elder Scrolls" by doing nothing here. Furthermore, all Notch has done is apply for trademark on a name that he plans to use. There's nothing wrong with that - it's just diligence - and filing a suit about that is rather arbitrary. If Bethesda's representatives have an issue with that then they should just contest the application.
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Somehow, I don't think the Bethesda lawyers are going to be okay with a trial by combat, unless they can somehow extract an extra fee out of it.
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Well, unlike copyrights and patents, trademarks must always be fought for or they are lost.
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Their trademark is "Elder Scrolls". While I think Mojang's "Scrolls", even as a fantasy game, is too generic to be trademarked, it is not violating Bethesda's trademark. They are claiming they own the individual words of their trademark, even though they are common english words, and that's clearly absurd.
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It doesn't matter if they have a trademark on the specific word. If someone uses a mark that is similar to something you use and they are within the same industry you risk diluting your mark and losing it. Which is why Microsoft was basically required by law if they wanted to not lose their Microsoft trademark to sue the guy who started "Mike Rowe Soft".
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Heeh, did that actually happen?
On the current topic, however; look at it from the other side. If Mojang created 'Scrolls' a few years back, and then Bethesda published 'The Elder Scrolls', what would happen? From that angle, it would look a damn lot like a sequel, wouldn't it?
It's not particularly nice of Bethesda, but I do see their point.
More information (Score:5, Informative)
Notch just got married this weekend, and is officially away right now, for his honeymoon. This lawsuit came up at a terrible time, and this is the way that Notch handles such stuff.
Notch seems to read and reply most to comments on the minecraft channel at reddit. The thread there [reddit.com] would probably be the place to post if you want to volunteer as one of the representatives :)
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I think they should have to use actual employees, who have been employed before the challenge, to prevent them just hiring Q3 allstars.
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And, as far as I know, Mojang only has 3 employees.
I don't think this is really about winning or losing the trademark battle anyway. It's a publicity stunt. If Bethesda agrees, they'll probably destroy whatever team Mojang assembles, but there will be plenty of good publicity to be shared between the two companies.
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The way he bucks the system and refuses to just accept the absurdity of our modern legal code is fantastic. He should be applauded. Here's a man who points out how ridiculous this lawsuit is by issuing a challenge that is as valid as the lawsuit being brought against him, and has about as much connection to "justice" as any traditional course of action would have.
I always cheer on the people who make their own rules, and refuse to roll over when bullies feel like they are entitled to always having things th
Quake 3, eh? (Score:3)
So.... seeing as Bethesda and id Software are both now arms of Zenimax, can id Software employees be part of the Bethesda team?
Shoulda stuck with counter-strike, Notch!
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Sounds very unprofessional (Score:2)
He says he is serious, but unless there is something I am missing or Notch is an idiot he is not actually expecting them to agree. Supposedly Bethesda have a financial reason for suing Notch and for a actual business to engage in basically a game of chance (Quake 3 is not a game of chance but pitting two unknown team against each other in it is) to determine if they will go ahead with the suit or drop it is just irresponsible. And assuming that they are a corporation beholden to look after the best interest
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The point I was trying to make was not wouldn't it be cool if it went down or not but instead that he has absolutely no chance of getting it to go down and I think he knows it.
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That makes the huge assumption that the financial loss caused by a game
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Bethesda is a private company, so they can do whatever they want.
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He says he is serious, but unless there is something I am missing or Notch is an idiot he is not actually expecting them to agree.
Bethesda may not have anticipated the bad press that this affair is generating. Notch has offered them a face-saving way out. It would be wise of them to accept.
Game Over (Score:3)
If serious, he just screwed himself out of using the contested name. He just expressed his willingness to change it. So now, a judge knows that it's not crucial to the project to keep the name, if he would frivolously agree to changing it over the outcome of a video game match.
It's like this. Big bad greedy company wants your name, or your domain, or wants you to stop using it because it infringes on their trademark, or "dilutes their brand" or whatever buzzwords they use. You say you will change it if they pay you a million dollars. You probably just screwed yourself in court if they refuse, because it makes you look like a squatter.
Remember MikeRoweSoft.com? He might have had a leg to stand on because it was his name, and he was a software developer, but as soon as he attempted to extort money from Microsoft, his prospects of winning were shot. (If I recall correctly, he settled for some free gifts from MS)
But yeah, free publicity, anyway.
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No. You are completely wrong on that - the law does not say anything about *needing* a trademark. In fact, the courts will probably look favorably on this attempt to settle out of court - showing a willingness to compromise is actually a bonus, not a strike against you.
There's only a few outcomes left, now, which will show who's in the right:
1) If Bethesda agrees, and both parties abide by the results, everyone saying this is a case of the legal department not being in touch with the rest of the company get
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(I didn't realize it would be in Sweden... it could be quite different. All bets are off)
But I was more thinking of:
6) Judge sternly rules to stop using the name Scrolls, and (not necessarily because) he doesn't like the court's time being wasted with frivolity. If he's willing to give up the name over the outcome of a video game, just give it up. I highly doubt the judge would identify with the chivalry and nobody is going to take that challenge seriously. It would be legally foolish for anyone on the comp
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"Surely, the word tournament should be safe? (Activision would of course crawl right up my ass and use my balls for a punching bag)"
ok now I know you're doing nothing but talking out your ass.
X360 Abronium Tournament
PS Bakuten Shoot Beyblade 2002: Beybattle Tournament 2
NES Battle Rush: Build Up Robot Tournament
GC BeyBlade VForce: Super Tournament Battle
GBC BeyBlade: Fighting Tournament
PC Bomberfun Tournament
GBA Bomberman Tournament
ARC Buriki One: World Grapple Tournament '99
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"Willing to settle it via arbitration" is different than "willing to give it up", because there's about even odds that Mojang would end up with the trademark, not Bethesda. It's not Notch saying "we have no claim to it", it's saying "we both have equal claim to it".
There's also the problem that Bethesda's entire suit is based on "customers could be confused into thinking Scrolls is a Bethesda game". Which is untrue for a reason that hasn't been brought up here: most gamers don't think of Bethesda's games as
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I don't think this is squatting in any way, I just used that as an example. The point is, he's just demonstrated that he's willing to change it over something arbitrary. (like payment of money in my examples, or in this case a blog post requesting a video game duel)
It's not "This is my brand and I'm going to defend it from Bethesda" anymore. Now it's, "I'd be willing to change it in exchange for..." I think the challenge was a dumb thing to do, for that reason.
Also note that doesn't mean I personally agree
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Prince (Score:2)
Job (Score:2)
On a side note, God I hate what lawyers did to our justice and legal system . . . .
Notch does not have the funds to match legal team (Score:2)
Notch does not have the funds to match Bethesda legal team.
Bethesda owns "Scrolls" trademark? (Score:2)
I think they (both) might want to check with Steven Mancinelli [uspto.gov]. Notch's defense would run to "I can't be infringing on Bethesda's trademark, since this other trademark was plainly issued to the pertinent domain AND is more directly infringed if anyone is.
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They're totally going about this the wrong way (Score:2)
If you're going to have a trial, it should definitely be a trial by stone [youtube.com].
Jerks (Score:2)
I'm usually not this low-brow, but I'd like to give Bethesda a roll of toilet paper, which is the trophy for winning Ass-Wipe of the Year. And if you think about it, toilet paper is rolled like scrolls are, so sue me too, ass-wipes.
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As far as the Quake 3 challenge, it's genius. Awesome rebuttal to a ov
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Fallout 3 didn't have enough content? I spent well over a hundred hours playing that game, more time than I spent playing new vegas. And that was before the DLC. Maybe beautiful, wide open, sandbox style games just aren't for you. I'd also advise you to also stay away from minecraft, as the plot there can be said to be weak to nonexistent.
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To be fair, I suppose perhaps my attitude might be colored by fanboyism of the original Fallouts. It just didn't have the same feel.
The fanboyism of the original fallouts really never ceases to amaze me. Maybe other people had a different experience with it, but some sections of the game crash so often that getting through any piece without some exception being thrown was grounds for immediate saving. I probably had something like 5 rolling save files devoted just to creeping my way through the mutant base, trying not to trigger any broken scripts. Yes, I'll admit there are good parts to the game, plotlines and story is great, but t
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Did
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I still think new vegas was dlc for 3 that grew out of proportion.
I'll prob still get fallout 4 (If they make it) Because I liked the game, but really hated the engine more then anything.
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Parent is trolling or joking or something, it's not out until 11/11
Parent was suggesting that people should plan on pirating Skyrim in retaliation for Bethesda/Zenimax's actions. Typical juvenile reaction.
Anyway, it isn't like Bethesda is trying to sue Notch into the ground. They are suing him to change the name of his upcoming (not released) game. I don't exactly agree with them, but I think that there is enough to their claim not to reject out of hand the notion that a fantasy-themed computer game called "Scrolls" could potentially cause some amount of confusion with a l
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It's going to be disappointing, but I'll be getting it anyway.
From rlslog, of course.
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Yea, I hit up steam during sales, and end up with more games then I can reasonably play for around the same price as the latest blockbuster. Usually those games are last years blockbusters, so they run great on my computer built with last years hardware (Which is also easy on the wallet).
Why do you assume that game pirating is rampant? I know at least 4 PC gamers, who do something similar to what I do. I don't know any that torrent games unless they are trying to rid a game they bought of DRM. (Offtopic
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Did you get a time frame on completion before you handed over the cash?
No? Well I guess you're a moron then.
Heck there's a release date even, why would you expect it sooner? Or expect anything in the meantime?
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Indeed, when there are a bunch of a.b.c releases, the server I play on is largely unusable during the entire flurry of updates due to client/server version incompatibilities. I like frequent updates, but I don't like being unable to play.
BTW, Thanks for working on Bukkit.
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Minecraft isn't finished? Amidst the exploration of the fantastic structures created across thousands of servers, and the investigations of the wealth of possibilities of the engine and gameplay, I really hadn't noticed.
So I'm going to get more out of this for my 15 bucks. Best 15 bucks I ever spent.
Re:Bizzaro Response: (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does Notch expect them to sell-out their morals and instincts for a few fleeting moments of fun and chance to be the bigger person over something they're making a bigger deal about than necessary?
Because if they accept, they get tons of good press, way more than the current bad press they're getting for suing over a single word. In fact, I'd imagine it would turn out better for them than if they'd never sued at all.
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Ideal solution is much like the Southwest vs Stevens Aviation trademark "trial by armwrestling".
Play up the match for tons of good PR and geek cred, play for charity plus the rights to the trademark, then whoever wins immediately grants unlimited rights to the trademark to the losing party.
Bethesda can say they defended their trademark, everyone gets good PR, charities get money, everyone is saved an expensive court case (that Bethesda probably can't win without spending loads of money on) and the world (vi
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He probably wants to avoid the Quake Live servers crashing during the match.
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That's a typical sue-sick view.
He's not saying "I can't win", he's saying "I'm not interested in a real fight". Subtle, but very very different.