The End Is Near for GameStop 393
kube00 writes "The rumor mill is saying the next generation of consoles might not play used games. What does this mean for retailers such as Amazon, GameStop, and Best Buy? Will gamers flock to the one console that can still play used games? GoozerNation speculates if the Mayan apocalypse draws near for used game sales."
I doubt it (Score:2)
I'm not an insider or anything, but they seem to be pretty quick on their feet to adjust to the market. They're still going to sell new games and used games for PS3/360 for quite a while even after PS4/720 come out. They're also selling cards for your steam wallet and MS points etc. Probably still in the used system market as well, not to mention the nice margin on off brand controllers. If the end is coming, it'll still be a while yet.
Re:I doubt it (Score:5, Interesting)
I would imagine that people will also look at the other options before buying one of these consoles. Sony and MS (and Nintendo I guess) are no longer the only games in town. Alongside the raft of Android kit that's in the pipeline people obviously have their phones and tablets, and PCs have never been stronger (and in fact PC players buy as many games as either XBox or PS3 players, no matter what Bungie may want you to believe.)
Hopefully this will finally wake people up to the fact that consoles are NOT a good buy, unless you really don't own a PC, and want to game with your thumbs (which I consider to be as effective as playing the piano in oven gloves.)
Re:I doubt it (Score:5, Funny)
(which I consider to be as effective as playing the piano in oven gloves.)
Jazz...
Re:I doubt it (Score:5, Insightful)
consoles are NOT a good buy
Consoles are anachronistic by now. They are remnants of an age when there was a TV set in the living room and the family gathered there to watch. Back in those old days, a color monitor was an expensive item, so much that it made sense to use the family TV as a monitor.
Today, when people carry in their pockets a device with a screen that offers much better resolution than the TV screen did, consoles make no sense at all, at least not for the consumer.
There is only one group that benefits from the console system today, the game publishers. Consoles are what enables them to save money in development, because the range of hardware that they must support is limited, while at the same time allowing them to pump the prices up, by using DRM.
Re:I doubt it (Score:5, Insightful)
Today, when people carry in their pockets a device with a screen that offers much better resolution than the TV screen did, consoles make no sense at all, at least not for the consumer.
LARGER screen? Not having to squint at a bad font choice on a tiny screen? Real controls?
Re: (Score:2)
A screen that is too small to allow the resolution of individual pixels is not really something to brag about. That's ultimately what a "retina display" is: too small for scrutinize.
Gamers aren't the only idiots that will happily pay a premium price to eat dirt.
Re:I doubt it (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a home theater setup now with a nice big 109 in screen, and my PC is a laptop which is quite convenient, it's also 3 years old and I only paid about $600 for it then and it's not even close to being obsolete for my needs. With Steam launching big picture mode there there having been a few PC only games I wanted to play in the last few years I decided... maybe the Home Theater Gaming PC is a reality now? I dropped the cash and built a machine the last few parts came in last week... I had the box in my office hooked up to a spare monitor, keyboard, and mouse that I had... I spent a few hours installing windows, running windows update, installing and signing up for steam among other things.... I was ready to use it so a hauled the machine down into my home theater room, removed some old equipment to make room and hooked up my sleek new Home Theater Gaming PC.
It booted up and everything seemed to be going well but once I was in windows the wireless keyboard and mouse wasn't being recognized... ok I unplugged and plugged back in the dongle, no use, I checked the batteries, they were good, checked the documentation, there's no special instructions other than to plug it in. So I ran and got my wired keyboard and mouse and had to sit 2ft from my giant projection screen on the floor trying to figure out why the wireless devices weren't working... For some reason windows was recognizing the wireless dongle as a mass storage device that had 0 space. I plugged the dongle into my laptop and it worked fine without any problems... so I know the device is fine, the problem is with the windows install/drivers on the new machine. after banging my head against this issue for about an hour not finding anyone with similar problems online and not being able to futz with the drivers to get the machine to recognize it properly I gave up on that... I had a wireless adapter to use an Xbox 360 controller on the machine so for the time being I would just use the wired keyboard and mouse to navigate windows and play with the controller once I was in the games.
Throughout dealing with the keyboard and mouse problems I realized that I wasn't getting any sound, I didn't have speakers hooked up when it was in my office so I hadn't thought about it. I needed HDMI sound output for my home theater setup and pouring through all the sound options I couldn't find anything to enable sound out via HDMI. I went to look at the graphics driver options when I realized that I had never installed the nVidia graphics driver and it was still using the generic windows video driver. I went to nVidia's website, downloaded the latest driver and installed. It wanted to reboot so I obliged. I see the bios screen, the then some info on the raid array, then the windows loading screen then my projector looses the video signal, then it finds the video signal but the screen is black... for about 5 seconds then it loses the signal again, and repeats this loop endlessly. I force shutdown by holding the power button wait a few seconds and reboot...same problem.... I force shut down again and reboot into safe mode... same problem
So after spending nearly a grand, spending a day building the thing and half a day banging my head against driver issues I've at the mome
Re: (Score:3)
Prices will come down? Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)
So the article speculates that the prices of new games will come down if second hand sales become a thing of the past.
Yeah. Right. If you believe that, I have a special deal, just for you, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you could be the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge for the low low price of $1000!
Publishers will sell the games for as much as they think the public will pay. They're not going to oh-so-generously drop the price of their product just because you can't resell it down the road. I guarantee you, prices will stay the same, or go up.
Re:Prices will come down? Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)
So the article speculates that the prices of new games will come down if second hand sales become a thing of the past.
Yeah. Right. If you believe that, I have a special deal, just for you, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, you could be the proud owner of the Brooklyn Bridge for the low low price of $1000!
Publishers will sell the games for as much as they think the public will pay. They're not going to oh-so-generously drop the price of their product just because you can't resell it down the road. I guarantee you, prices will stay the same, or go up.
Remember when those same publishers got rid of big boxes, printed manuals and goodies that used to come in normal pc game editions -- with the excuse of going green and lesser price ? Yeah, what happened to those prices ? They went up, up and up. And you ended paying much more for less.
It is GUARANTEED that if second hand games go the way of the dodo prices will not go down.
You'll end up paying much more for even less value.
Re: (Score:3)
Games stopped selling big boxes because of stores like Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart wanted to be able to fit more stuff on a shelf, so they told the publishers they would no longer be stocking game boxes that were larger than a DVD case. It had nothing to do with being "green". That might have been the motivation for dropping manuals, but I suspect the lack of manuals was more to do with cost savings.
Re:Prices will come down? Hah! (Score:5, Insightful)
true that, anyone believing the price would fall when the competition gets weaker (2nd hand stuff competes with brand new) is a fucking moron.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Their argument against second hand games, is that they want to sell more copies. They will sell more copies, and at the same price.
You know what? I say, go for it. The market evolves, and it will screw them over. Take Steam's console for instance, there's a gap, and they're going to fill it. PS3 was good because it had the Wii and Xbox as competition, PS4 needs to be spectacular.
Re: (Score:2)
*yawn* (Score:5, Insightful)
The rumor mill is saying that something might happen, and the question is about the possible consequences of this thing that may or may not occur.
This is too many layers of speculation to be useful for anything.
Please call me when someone knows something about anything. Thanks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's the Recycled Rumor Mill.
Same rumor they had on /. last week.
And the week before that.
And pretty much every week or two before that.
Anyone else tired of seeing the same rumor posted as "news" every week?
lolwut (Score:5, Insightful)
> "If none of the consoles can play used games I could see the price of games coming down. AAA titles may come out at $45 or $50 instead of $60."
Re:lolwut (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:lolwut (Score:5, Funny)
I watched Iron Chef and -lost- a kidney. Never played Master Chef.
... literally _lost_. it responds to pee, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.
Re: (Score:2)
You've seen Cooking Mama right? ;)
Mayan Apocolypse (Score:4, Funny)
That was sooo last Baktun.
End is near for new consoles? (Score:4, Insightful)
Retailers went too far (Score:3, Insightful)
This is to stop retailers going to great lengths to sell pre-owned *instead* of new copies. Mixing new and preowned stock on the same shelf was ridiculous enough, but Iit's got to the point where you try to buy a new copy of a game, and they're actively pushing pre-owned even at the checkout: 'Are you sure you want a new copy? This pre-owned one is $2 less!'
This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned. Publishers have been way to slow and scared to respond, they should have clamped down much earlier. After all, it's never happened to this extent with music or DVDs, and I expect that the music/movie industry would be very quick to stamp these sort of practices out if pre-owned sales were being pushed in the same way.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah sure, because before shops started to sell used games, the cost was $10-15...
Re: (Score:2)
Game resale was possible from the very beginning. I used it myself personally in the 90s. Chances are that it was available earlier than that simply due to human nature. Markets create themselves whenever there is demand.
Fighting against human nature? Against free markets? Against personal property righs? You might as well call yourself Communist.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
(Oh, even at $0.99, games bitch and moan about games being too expensive, too... the fun of being a mobile developer...)
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Insightful)
And if developers are going to be removing features from games I purchase (the right to resell) then the price needs to be dropped dramatically.
Actually, forget it. Preventing resale will just light a fire under the pirate's asses; they'll crack the DRM in no time, and then publishers will have an even bigger problem than gamestop
Re: (Score:2)
If you had any idea how time-consuming and costly modern console game development can be, you'd understand why games are so expensive.
Then can you explain to me why simply going from 480p to HDTV somehow adds 20% to the price of a game?
Wii was the only console that didn't support HD, and it was the only one with new games with an MSRP of about $50. Now that the Wii U is HD, they too have jumped onto the $60 bandwagon.
Re: (Score:2)
Because the level of effort that has to be put in to the artwork significantly increases if it has to look good in HD?
Then the Wii port of multi-platform titles would also be $60, since that extra work would be done regardless.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm 45, I'm old enough to remember the prices on Atari 2600 games and what you got for that money, and trust me...taking inflation and content in account, modern games are CHEAPER.
Re: (Score:3)
It's somewhat true. Go back to the early 90s...
There wasn't full motion video. Maybe they had some narrated pics or MAYBE some in-game-rendered footage for a few seconds.
The voice acting (in the cut scenes or even the game) weren't really there. Between the writing and the vocal talent it was often quite weak. There WERE exceptions but for the most part... not great.
They weren't using A-list or B-list actors to voice their stuff like they do now. It was rare for them to pick a celebrity or even a solid
Countries without paid apps (Score:3)
(Oh, even at $0.99, games bitch and moan about games being too expensive, too... the fun of being a mobile developer...)
How much of that is due to Android phone manufacturers having launched their phones in countries where Google didn't yet have a payment infrastructure? That's what happened with Android Market in the early days of Android: ad-supported became the norm because so many countries were shut out of paid applications entirely.
Re: (Score:2)
This is completely correct. However.
however, this does not follow. A manufacturer will
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Insightful)
Developers/publishers need to fight back against pre-owned, as game retailers really started to take the piss, and it's really been hurting the people who make the games. [...] This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned. Publishers have been way to slow and scared to respond, they should have clamped down much earlier.
By this logic, you should be all for contractors demanding and receiving a percentage of the sale price for any building they constructed, car companies forbidding the use of any second-hand vehicle, and all other sorts of wonderful nonsense.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not a great comparison, though, as there's extra risks/costs associated with buying a used car. With used software, the used copy is exactly the same as the new copy (assuming the disc is undamaged)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, car dealers have been pushing used cars over new cars (those dealers with large new and used lots). The profit margins are significantly higher on used vehicles, and banks love them because the interest rates on used cars is higher then new cars.
It has gotten to the point where people are buying used (more than likely CPO used), because they thought they were getting a better deal, when in actuality the new car was actually cheaper in the long run over the life of the loan. And Dealers love this, CPO sales are a huge profit generator.
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Insightful)
...Mixing new and preowned stock on the same shelf was ridiculous enough, but Iit's got to the point where you try to buy a new copy of a game, and they're actively pushing pre-owned even at the checkout: 'Are you sure you want a new copy? This pre-owned one is $2 less!'
This directly hurts publishers and developers, who need the new sales and make no revenue from pre-owned...
Ironically, this exact scenario plays out across the entire nation every single day. In used car sales lots. And in pawn shops. And in clothing thrift stores.
Why is it I don't see Ford lobbying against every single used car dealer, demanding they "outlaw" the sale of all used Fords?
Why is it I don't see Abercrombie and Fitch pissed at the fact that their $40 T-shirt sells for $10 at Platos closet, threatening the sue the entire used clothing chain?
Why is Rolex not demanding that all used Rolex watches be pulled immediately from the market and destroyed, since they're being sold for thousands less than what the MSRP is, crushing their "value" and image?
I'll tell you why. Because these retailers have already got their damn money once, and don't feel they should be paid again. And again. And again.
I fail to understand why you or anyone else thinks the gaming industry deserves this unique honor. As far as them being "hurt", well I guess I'll believe that when I see that multi-billion dollar industry actually start slowing down. Seems the music and movie industry likes to cry poor mouth too while artists and managers wipe their ass with $100 bills.
Re: (Score:3)
What it comes down to is the those business created brand loyalty thru their marketing efforts. The game studios created lots of series loyalty but not much brand loyalty. Its always easier to blame some external force like "the used market" for ones own failures; then it is to own them. The sad fact is this leads to trying to solve the wrong problems.
Do you know anybody who buys games because Ubisoft made it? Exactly. People might by every "Assassin's Creed" or whatever I would wager a good portion o
Re: (Score:3)
Do you know anybody who buys games because Ubisoft made it? Exactly.
I know at least one person who doesn't buy games because Ubisoft made it.
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it I don't see [..]
I'll tell you why. Because these retailers have already got their damn money once, and don't feel they should be paid again.
Another way to look at it:
it's an admittance that the replayability of the games sucks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Retailers went too far (Score:5, Informative)
Why is it I don't see Ford lobbying against every single used car dealer, demanding they "outlaw" the sale of all used Fords?
It was called Cash for Clunkers. Car companies lobbied for it. It required the gov't to subsidize the destruction of operational used cars.
Re: (Score:2)
If they want to make money from any copy of the game, new or used, then offer in game content for sale. Sell hats like TF2 for crying out loud. There are people in my TF2 clan that probably spent $200+ on hats, tags, paint, and other customization. And better yet, not one of those purchases can affect game balance.
the EU saves the world (Score:5, Insightful)
In the EU and especially in Germany it is allowed to resell used copies of licenses of software and games.
You are explicitly allowed to buy high volume licenses and resell them individually (e.g., oracle and windows licenses).
It's like MS bundling IE and Media Player with Windows in the EU. Either they pay high fines (900 millions or more) or they
comply with the law in the EU.
Re: (Score:2)
In the EU and especially in Germany it is allowed to resell used copies of licenses of software and games.
You are explicitly allowed to buy high volume licenses and resell them individually (e.g., oracle and windows licenses).
It's like MS bundling IE and Media Player with Windows in the EU. Either they pay high fines (900 millions or more) or they
comply with the law in the EU.
But this is a little different; you aren't even buying a copy of a game or a license. You are buying a 'service'. The 'service' is the streaming of the game to your console.
Re: (Score:3)
all hell will break loose (Score:4, Insightful)
in the courtroom challenging first sale rights, click/shrink wrap licenses, etc. perhaps also format/device shifting, drm and circumvention of it to preserve customer rights... heck, even privacy and user tracking could be a part of it (that is one reason why the push to online-everything.. it's easier to track and report)
but the case will drag on for so long, that most of the readers here will be so old and arthritic they won't be able to play video games anymore anyway other than things like freecell.
when the supreme court does finally hand down a ruling, though, it _will_ be monumental (for the better, or the worse) and completely change how not only video games are sold, but also other software, digital goods (software, music, movies, books, etc) that are fast replacing physical ones, and the used/lending/rental markets for all of those (including ordinary public libraries and person-to-person lending).
PC gaming revival (Score:3)
Hopefully this leads to people (re)discovering the PC as a gaming platform, so PC gamers can stop being held back by these stupid console ports that are written for hardware that was commodity level 6 years ago.
Maybe if enough people switch back to the PC for all their gaming needs, we can finally get Valve to release HL2 Episode 3.
Re: (Score:3)
The whole attraction to console gaming is that it used to "just work" Now there's the BS with internet enabled games and dlc and the like, but guess where that came from? Ya, that idea was brought to you by PC gaming.
The pain with PC gaming is that everyone's PC is configured differently. Games have dependencies that may not exist on your PC. A game may take advantage of a niche feature of a video/sound card that doesnt exist in other cards. A game might work with a specific version of a hardware driver.
Re: (Score:2)
Steam games are so cheap, does it really matter?
Yes, it matters.
This isn't about making games cheaper, it's about control and ownership.
I don't understand the goodwill Valve seem to receive from the PC gaming community simply because they have a few cheap deals on. Does it really give them a free pass to lock down PC gaming and take control of our purchases?
Some games might be cheap on Steam, but they come with a very high hidden cost.
GameStop pivot (Score:2, Interesting)
The last time I was in a GameStop (on Market St. in San Francisco) I was surprised at the near complete transition that had been made. Sure, they sold games. But right in front of the store were a ton of used iPhones, iPads, iPods, Galaxy tabs... And I got the impression they were driving more interest than anything else in the store.
Dear Console Makers.... (Score:2)
Let me be crystal clear. I will NEVER buy a console that is incapable of playing used games, PERIOD.
If I am capable of buying physical media for my console, I should have the right to lend / sell / trade that media with others including companies who may resell it.
If I am capable of downloading games for my console, I should have the right to save those games to external media and play them on other consoles. Not copy them to the other console, but merely play them.
I am fundamentally o
There's always one way to get games cheap: (Score:2)
Hold out for a price drop or three. Few things depreciate like last year's games.
Re: (Score:2)
"the rumor mill" (Score:3, Insightful)
How much of their business is used games? (Score:2)
There's a silver lining (Score:2)
As someone that has loaned friends optical discs and gotten them back scratched, I can see a silver lining...
"Sorry, I'd love to loan you this game, but it only plays in my console!"
That being said, I do think making used games unplayable is a greedy money grab.
Contrary to European legislation (Score:4, Interesting)
Depending on how they implement the "no used games" feature, it may be contrary to European law. There was a ruling against Oracle last year saying it is perfectly fine to resell second-hand software:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-16/second-hand-software-sales-set-to-soar-on-oracle-ruling [businessweek.com]
"Apocalypse" indeed... (Score:2)
As in "a lifting of the veil", not "the end of the world."
Oh, it may be the end of the world for Gamestop: a chain built on used contemporary games that caters to the contemporary gamer. But the few used-game stores not bought up by Gamestop during its boom survived without even having to pivot all that much: now they work with retro games -the stuff Gamestop doesn't carry- and modern merchandise. You can't build a mega-chain on that (yet, though we'll see what the death of used games does to that), but you
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Insightful)
While the wording is pretty excessive, I do not think this post deserves a flamebait mod. Only that it's not limited to gamers.
And I even count myself as one of those idiots... I'm still buying Assassin's Creed games on PS3 even though I've been burned by Ubisoft repeatedly AND there hasn't been an AC game I've truly enjoyed since AC2.
So yeah, I'm pretty dumb. I acknowledge that fact.
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game
Unless your name is GeoHot, no you're not.
And if your name is GeoHot, no you're not, until it's been out already for five years.
I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
No, sorry, that's not how it works. You haven't "truly enjoyed" an AC game since AC2? So you're looking for some deep fulfillment from these games that they are no longer providing? And you think the problem is the games?
Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Insightful)
... they are addicts
Gamers act pretty much the same way drug addicts do ...
No matter how many times they were screwed by the dealers, them addict will always go back to the dealers and buy more drugs
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe it's that when you amortize the cost of a video game compared to most other forms of popular entertainment, video games work out incredibly cheaply per unit time of entertainment and so the total spend of a typical gamer per year is actually very low. Furthermore, perhaps you, or if not you then others it this thread, are basing your idea of getting "ripped off" by comparing the free market costs of goods (which is essentially what we have here, despite nonsense or hyperbolic claims of 'addiction') against the "piracy costs" as some of you have conditioned yourself that the cost of digital entertainment "should" be near zero.
I don't play many games. I'm a WW2 enthusiast and there haven't been many shooters lately. But in general for about the price of a decent restaurant meal I could get a WW2 shooter that would keep me occupied for 40+ hours (of my life that I can never get back, but that's a different story). I have no problem with this and I further have no problem in technological means to prevent against re-license - or have you all been asleep to what this has done to prices in the ios app market and also in places like steam?
Re: (Score:3)
But in order to protect their business model, look at what they do. They lobby for legislation and regulation that invades your privacy. They add requirements to games that you be playing with an active internet connection, running some sort of digital rights management software in the background. The DRM technology has matured, Steam doesn't suck quite as mu
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Realistically what is their alternative? Movies are, according to many Slashdot posts, all shit as well. Music is all shit. TV is runny diarrhoeal shit.
We are lucky, we have enough education to be interested in other stuff. A lot of people don't and are overstimulated anyway, so really there isn't much else. And, well, you know, some of those games are not bad. Unlike drugs they generally don't ruin your life or impair your ability to earn money and buy more either.
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Realistically what is their alternative? Movies are, according to many Slashdot posts, all shit as well. Music is all shit. TV is runny diarrhoeal shit.
I dunno, go outside and have fun in the real world for a change? You know, like people did before video games, TV and movies existed?
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:4, Funny)
Stranger danger (Score:4, Insightful)
I dunno, go outside and have fun in the real world for a change?
How much of the current tendency against outdoor recreation is due to "stranger danger" hysteria among parents? And how much is because the gift-giving season is in a part of the year when temperatures are too cold for vigorous outdoor recreation throughout much of the developed world?
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Every few months I decide I'm tired of staring at screens all day, and that I want to find something fun to do that doesn't involve that. So I search and search (offline at first, but then I realize I can't find anything that way and look online), and eventually find an activity that costs a bunch of money; for equipment, for clothes & shoes appropriate for the activity, or to get into an area to do the activity. I put down the money and then after awhile find that everyone is going online to talk about the activity, and/or I have to go online to keep up with the activity (when places are open or available, when the weather will be appropriate, when other people will be doing the activity) . And it eventually becomes just staring at the screen at things related to the activity much more than I can actually do the activity (either due to cost, or weather, or scheduling conflicts, etc.) .
Can you find me an activity in the real world that isn't like that, which is actually fun for adults? Just running around and pretending to shoot each other with sticks, climbing trees, etc. is not fun for adults.
Re: (Score:3)
I have yet to find ANY activ
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:4, Funny)
YES! UIDs three times as high as mine are now considered low! I knew this would happen one day!
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Interesting)
They aren't talking about being burned in the sense of watching a bad movie, they are talking about getting burned in the sense of:
1. Playing a Game for Windows Live (GFWL) game on Steam and having the GFWL fail to connect, disconnect midgame, and choke up so often as to make a fun game unfun (Dark Souls...)
2. Renting a HD movie from Amazon on a Roku box, and deciding to finish watching the movie on a bigscreen powered by a HTPC only to discover then that Amazon won't show HD content on a PC.
3. Having the multi-player servers shut down and not being given an option to run your own.
4. Forced configurations and patches for non-multiplayer games. (Opps, looks like that patch changed something you liked, or broke the game for your machine)
5. Paying again to access services you already pay for (Netflix on Xbox)
6. Online requirements for single player games
7. permanent locking of games to accounts
8....
Yeah, there are a lot ways to get burned by companies even without considering if the content is actually good.
Those I've listed above are just those that have directly impacted me, I'm quite sure the list goes on.
Oh wait, I forgot about whatever the hell that nasty DRM break your CDROM malware is. Starforce stardock? I can't even remember the name, I just remember having to spend a couple hours trying to get the damned crap off a PC a couple years back.
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Everyone is making broad generalizations. I know that's what happens on Slashdot. Will I buy a next gen console, yes I will, will it be because I'm addicted, no. Will it be because I enjoy playing video games, yes. I'm sure lots of gamers are addicted, but I'm also sure there are lots of gamers that just enjoy playing a few times a week (like me). Will I be mad if I can't buy used games. Probably, but I don't really trade in games to buy other games. I buy games to play them. And when I'm done, they sit on a shelf, until I'm ready to play it again. Not everything has to be about freedom. Some things can be about fun, we're not all Richard Stallman. Thank God.
Re:Gamers are not idiots ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone is making broad generalizations.
You realize the irony in that statement, don't you?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If I can't buy 2nd hand on the xbox I may seriously consider stumping up for a PS4
Dead Space 1 - Awesome
Dead Space 2 - Urgh, really?
Dead Space 3 - Gears Of War with buckets on their heads.
But I'll still buy it because sucker.
Except - SECOND HAND!!! WOO!
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:4, Interesting)
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
No need to hack things to try before you commit to purchase. There's rental services like Gamefly. Additionally, there is some controversy over whether or not game demos hurt game sales. In my experience: They do. [mtv.com] My own anecdotal experience: Same product in different distribution markets, the one without a demo = more sales; I tried again with a different product and switched the markets where the game demo was available... Less sales again in the one with the trial version, so it's probably not just the market; This even holds true for software other than games.
The problem is that we're done with demos. Demos are obsolete. [unigamesity.com] It's hard to make a demo that leaves you unsatisfied enough to buy the game, but not unsatisfied enough to think the game is crap. So, the answer is simple: Refunds. On the mobile software markets like Android If you buy a game and don't like it you can just return it. This is better because it retains more impulse buy sales, takes less time to develop (no need to make a demo version), and is just as risk free as "try before you buy". I guess folks that don't have the money won't be able to play it, but they're not going to buy it anyway, see also your "hack the planet" idea as an alternative for these folks...
The problem is that Console makers don't want to embrace the concept full refunds if you don't like the game. Even on the upcoming OUYA console (if it ever ships) they mandate that all games must at least have a demo (or be free to play) -- The full game can not be purchased from the store, it must be unlocked by in app purchases. Unfortunately their whole market revolves around free to play, so it's basically a hack to make a regular game actually have a demo version and a full version. I haven't heard whether they'll allow full refunds or not, but since they mandate game have a "free" version I don't think you'll be getting the option to refund a purchase if the game doesn't live up to the expectations set by the demo.
Not even Steam allows refunds; Apple's App Store and Canonical's Software Center do have refunds, but you have to contact them and the refunds aren't guaranteed. I wish everyone just used the model Google Play does: Full refund if requested within $INTERVAL minutes. Currently Google has that set to 15, but I wish it were at least 30, or 45 -- IMO, that's the best option.
I feel your pain, and wish there was something us game devs could do. I buy Indie games and do so directly from the game devs' websites. Most indie devs I've dealt with will refund your purchase without question if it's possible for them to do so. Even had one pay me back via Paypal transfer rather than charge back (they were incapable). They typically have demos or alphas and are much cheaper than store-bought AAA games. Full disclosure, I'm an independent software and game developer.
Re: (Score:2)
You're only pirating a console now that it has reached the end of its life?
That's a bit silly indeed. You should have done that years ago.
Granted, it's always been easier for the Xbox360 than for the PS3, but AC3, like many other games, is available on both platforms.
They only games that are PS3-exclusive are pretty good and might actually deserve your money.
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:4, Insightful)
What I'm going to do about it, though, is hack that damn console and pirate each and every game. I'm done paying before I can evaluate the quality.
You could always just wait. After a year or so the prices come down, the bugs are as fixed as they're gonna get, and word of mouth will tell you whether the game is worth the time. There's nothing that says you *have* to play the latest and greatest games the moment they come out.
Only if you don't plan to play online (Score:5, Informative)
After a year or so the prices come down, the bugs are as fixed as they're gonna get, and word of mouth will tell you whether the game is worth the time. There's nothing that says you *have* to play the latest and greatest games the moment they come out.
While following that strategy on a Sony console, I've never been able to get online play to work. All I've been able to get is an error message stating that "this software title is not in service."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
I can say the exact same thing about people who pay thousands of dollars for metal sticks and special shoes to hit a little ball around a grassy field. Or people who pay hundreds of dollars for the privilege to slide down a snow-capped mountain with two expensive sticks strapped to their feet for a day. Seems all those sports assholes have ruined a free ride for the rest of us.
Entertainment is entertainment. If people want to waste money on something, they're going to, so stop trying to target gamers who
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Insightful)
And, sure, there's a markup to make it rentable
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Insightful)
I completely concur. Addicted gamers, unsurprisingly, lack self-discipline enough to make thoughtful decisions even about that which affects them the most.
If someone were to make that part of their legal argument, it could do a lot to convince a jury that all of this game DRM is simply anti-consumer. After all, addicts of various sorts are both exploited and assisted. In many states, a gambling addiction hotline is announced with every lottery ad. We have banned cigarette ads in almost every medium and alcohol ads in almost as many.
People should be 100% entitled to keep the data/media they pay for. This should be required by law. They should be able to save it and hand it down to their kids or donate it to a library or a museum. Our culture and human history is being erased in the future so that people at present can theoretically make a few extra dollars.
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Insightful)
You all have a short memory. Its not the new gamers or even the new hardcore games that have a problem. There were exactly two industries that signaled the public at large was willing to accept degraded use rights to products in the name on content protection. Games and home video.
This goes back to the 80's, when games came with silly little start up questions like "what is the third word on page 20 of the manual." Games usually had substantial dead tree manuals at the time. Then the started coming with little card board decoder rings and such. After that clever ideas like key disk showed up, were the disk they sent had specific problems on some sectors, or perhaps the FAT had been molested in some unique way; so that in theory if you copied it the problems would not be there. So you had to insert this special broken disk every time you wanted to play; even if you had allocated some of your precious 40meg hard disk to it.
Then everyone mindless bought VHS tapes with macro-vision on them that were difficult to duplicate and had an inferior quality as well; without complaint.
The sad fact is most people don't think about this stuff or care. I am not sure what is to be done about it, but considering all the folks clamoring to get hold of the next walled garden device, be it a phone, game console, whatever and at the same time letting facebook be their personal information manager I think the ship has perhaps sailed a long time ago.
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:4, Informative)
While there's a lot of games out there that I admit are a bunch of recycled crap (usually the next cycle of FPS games), there's still quite a few metaphorical diamonds in the rough.
For the money, gaming provides some of the least expensive entertainment around. Sure, paying $60 for the latest Call of Duty title with a 6-hour singleplayer campaign ends up being not terribly worthwhile from a cost-value perspective, but paying $25 for Portal 1 and 2? Well worth it. I find games like the Half-Life, Fallout, and Mass Effect series (to name but a few) to be enjoyable, replayable, and quite cost-effective entertainment.
Am I an addict? Not at all. I just enjoy the more interactive entertainment that gaming provides than a more passive form of entertainment like watching a movie.
Re: (Score:3)
However online app stores tend to sell/rent/license new games at a cheaper rate.
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Insightful)
... idiots. I've watched them give money hand over fist to companies that are screwing them blind. When games went mainstream shit went downhill, the fact that gamers put up with such onerous bullshit because they are so addicted and stupid is why we can't have nice things.
How is paying for entertainment being an idiot? People pay $50-$100 a month to have TV shows to watch. People pay up to $50 for two to go see a movie ONCE. Its not like a smoker who spends $50 a week to kill themselves, or some drinker who spends $50 a week drinking their intelligence away.
Re:Gamers tend to be... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Game publishers need to get realistic about the price of games. Take this week's release of "Metal Gear: Revengance". It's a mediocre game for $60 (+tax). And it's four hours long. I can't think of a lot of entertainment that occurs in your own home, on a couch for as much as $16/hr.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
so if your console breaks you also lose all your games? sweet!
Re: (Score:3)
That would be a clear and definite restriction on the right to resell (Specifically, the deliberate crippling of products to disrupt the standard commercial rights of the purchasers) which would near certainly be a case rapidly lost by the crippling companies in the EU.
American courts, somewhat trickier to call. Precedent, law and logic all say this is unacceptable behaviour, but it's unacceptable behaviour by a rich corporation, so...
Re: (Score:2)
No one would be blocking the sale; they would just be taking all the value out.