Archive.org Adds Close To 2,400 DOS Games 198
New submitter Bugamn writes Archive.org has added a new library of DOS games. The games are playable on the browser through EM-DOSBOX, a port of the DOS emulator. The games are provided without instructions, so some experimentation (or search for old manuals) might be necessary. The library does not mention any copyright concerns, although some of the games can be found for sale on sites such as Steam and GoG.
Been there done that (Score:2)
Naww, I grew tired of Denial of Service attack games.
Oh... S*** (Score:5, Insightful)
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I will just leave this here then...
http://sc2.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
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Just one more turn...
Re:Oh... S*** (Score:4, Interesting)
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Both of those have been available for sale on GOG for years, FYI.
based on my initial emscripten-dosbox port from ba (Score:5, Informative)
And not a single line in the crefits, source, github-page - nowhere. :/
I even have mails from "dreamlayers" from 2014-01-03, when he discovered my port, and three days later his commits in his repo start...
Would have been nice to be credited correctly...
Re:based on my initial emscripten-dosbox port from (Score:5, Informative)
This is Jason Scott. If you e-mail at at jscott@archive.org, I'll be glad to sort it out.
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We would give you credit but you posted anonymously...
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I first used this: https://git.cryptopath.org/cer... [cryptopath.org]
Only one important commit is there: https://git.cryptopath.org/cer... [cryptopath.org]
That code compiled but did not work. I made changes and got a DOS program to run. Then I decided to start with a git repository which has all the DOSBox history and re-do things in a cleaner way. These two em-dosbox-0.74 commits on Jan 5, 2014 are based on the cerial/dosbox commit mentioned earlier:
Compile error fixes f6e0953 [github.com]
Disable SDL CD and CD image support on [github.com]
So is the Internet Archive just a piracy site now? (Score:2, Interesting)
The Internet Archive has a laudable goal, but these days they seem to just be shooting for straight-up piracy, not only hosting copies of games that are still for sale, but making them playable right on their site... I mean, they've got Street Fighter II in their arcade section...
To be honest, I'm shocked nobody has sued them yet. They really don't have any fair use defense.
Re:So is the Internet Archive just a piracy site n (Score:4, Insightful)
The Internet Archive has a laudable goal, but these days they seem to just be shooting for straight-up piracy, not only hosting copies of games that are still for sale, but making them playable right on their site... I mean, they've got Street Fighter II in their arcade section...
To be honest, I'm shocked nobody has sued them yet. They really don't have any fair use defense.
See, this is how the Copyright Cartels want you to think. It's not piracy, and it is fair use. If a owner of any of the software has a problem, they can ask for it to be removed.
Re:So is the Internet Archive just a piracy site n (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't matter if it's fair use or not.
It's historical preservation.
"Arguing the law" here is silly. As a crime, NO ONE cares. As a tort, no one seems to be willing to step forward. Until they do, you can't say there are any damages. Even then, what would those damages even be?
There is simply no basis for "pretentious moral outrage".
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There is simply no basis for "pretentious moral outrage".
Right...
"Arguing the law" here is silly. As a crime, NO ONE cares.
No, it should be the exact opposite. Pretending that the law happens to agree with one's lack of moral concern is not how one should react to this, but isntead realizing how stupid the law is that it still says it is illegal.
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rewriting application code so it'll run in a browser (a form of porting) is not historical preservation. I can't run this shit in an MS-DOS VM for the simple reason that it's rewritten to run in a Java sandbox. That is of no use to me. Nor should it be any use to anyone else with any sort of interest in preserving anything. A preserved application originally written for MS-DOS is one that I should be able to dump into my DOS VM and just fucking run it without having to do anything extraordinary to it like r
17 USC 108 (Score:3)
Fair use is not the only limit on the scope of U.S. copyright. Section 108 [cornell.edu] describes exceptions for nonprofit libraries to make copies for patrons.
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IANAL, but doesn't subsection (b)(2) of Section 108 carve out an exception for digital copies, specifically prohibiting digital copies made in accordance with Section 108 from being distributed to the public? I could be misreading it, but if I'm not, it would appear that there's an exception to the exception that puts us right back where we started.
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Yup. I think it's wasted mental effort though. If they want to pirate a game, then just pirate the game without trying to come up with some excuse about why it's not really pirating.
Try doing this with movies and a massive amount of legal fallout would ensue. And excuse that the movie hasn't been shown in several years would be laughed at. Here you all go, a copy of "Star Wars Christmas Special" for free download, it's all legal until Lucas sues me or sends a hit squad after me.
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Re:So is the Internet Archive just a piracy site n (Score:5, Interesting)
You're going to be absolutely shocked if you ever wander in to your local library!
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Why, are libraries making copies of entire books and giving them away? Last I checked all the books they had were legally purchased with a valid copyright page and could only be lent to one person at a time.
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It's because by law, you can not make more copies than the copyright holder allows. If they library lends out ten copies at a time then they need to buy ten copies! Otherwise you could have one library buy one copy and then lend it to the entire world; congrats the author spent a couple years writing the book and got only $20 for it.
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every library I've ever been in prohibits you from making a copy of an entire book using their copying facilities.
Re:So is the Internet Archive just a piracy site n (Score:4, Insightful)
And you're clearly going to be shocked if you ever learn how a library actually works.
Hint: the books (and CDs, and DVDs, and games) on the shelves are legally purchased copies, and are lent to a single patron at a time. They are not printouts of torrented epubs.
I love the Internet Archive but I seriously have no idea what they think they're doing here.
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So it's legal because copying the book takes longer than copying the data?
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No. Mostly because the catastrophic US copyright law does not apply in Europe.
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Well, technically when someone accesses it, it's also not the server that makes a copy, it's the client.
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I seriously have no idea what they think they're doing here.
Historical preservation would be my guess. But what's the point of preserving history if it's completely hidden for all time? One could arguew that it's not really been preserved at all in that case.
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They are curating a collection, like a museum does. There are museums dedicated to old computers and old games consoles, which allow visitors to view and even use old software that is still under copyright. They are tolerated and while I don't know the exact legal situation in the US, judging the the policy of Archive.org of not collecting games that are still for sale or where removal has been requested I'd imagine that is representative of it.
As for games that seem current like Street Fighter 2, it's the
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They won a DMCA exception (Score:2, Informative)
They have a DMCA exception for this which they asked the Librarian of Congress for.
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I think they think that by not allowing you to download the binary they're in the clear. Unfortunately you _are_ downloading it, to the emulator running in your web-browser.
There was a conference down here in Australia on game preservation last year and one of the most discussed subjects was precisely this -- and the conclusion was simply that what archive.org is doing in this context can't be considered as anything other than illegal.
Now whether or not anyone complains or not is something for IA to deal wi
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Well, since in all likelihood, neither The Internet Archive or the user own the game, that's kind of a moot point.
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It doesn't grant libraries permission to make unlimited numbers of copies and then distribute them for free to the public. It's also highly questionable as to if The Internet Archive actually own copies of any of the works in question.
And maybe they do own copies of these MS-DOS games, or at least a few of them. What of their arcade collection? Do they really own arcade cabinets or boards for each of those? Because those arcade games were certainly never sold as software alone digitally distributed...
What's
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Re:Turn Internet Archive into... (Score:2)
"Is there ANY way the community can fork off the Wayback Machine? Because AFAIK that is the only source for many web pages lost to time and it would truly be a crime to lose them forever because this yo-yo has decided to turn Internet Archive into another warez site."
It's got a couple of complicated twists I don't yet understand though.
Elsewhere we see stories that skies alive if someone torrents a Justin Bieber song, say a homeowner's sister in Kansas or something, they wind up with a multi thousand dollar
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I don't if any of these games are in violation of copyright laws but I do know that just because it is for sale does not mean that it is a violation. You can get e-books for works out of copyright for authors such as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and W. Shakespeare from archive.org and Project Gutenburg but it doesn't stop books stores from selling them anyways.
I imagine that the copyright laws governing these games are subject to where the foundation for archive.org is established. So if they established the foun
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The Internet Archive is based in the US. Every single game that they're pirating is still under copyright in the US.
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A quite fitting response, considering how rights holders have lobbied to pervert copyright in the name of profit.
Many games are "stream" only, no download (Score:5, Informative)
Just a note that many games on archive.org cannot be downloaded. They can be played online only, through the uncredited javascript dosbox implementation. Not sure how that affects the legal status of these games.
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I believe that would make archive.org fall under the same classification as libraries then.
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If the copyright allows it though. Which would mean that all those copies were originally legally purchased and only one player at a time played the game. I certain this is not the case here, so they'd need to get additional permission from the copyright owners.
Sure some people feel the law is outdated or more likely they think the law is inconvenient, but people can not just make up their own laws on the fly. There are large sections of laws regarding libraries, what they can and cannot do, and so forth
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Except that the exceptions in copyright code that allow public libraries to make copies of works specifically prohibit them from allowing digital copies to leave their premises and place strict limits on the number of copies that can be made, neither of which seem to be being honored here, given that hundreds or thousands of people are likely accessing these files from all around the world simultaneously, each of whom is getting their own copy to play around with.
And no love for applications (Score:3)
A pile of just games, really? Not even manuals?
Archive.org seems like the kind of place that should have the resources to scan and host all kinds of serious material. There are many, many, "boring" vintage applications, application manuals, and other computer system manuals, that have not yet been archived.
Give me R:Base 4000, UCSD p-system for IBM PC, the Kaypro 2000 utility disk (with color utility), Digital Research DR Logo for IBM PC, or how how about the impossible to Google for 1980s telecommunications program from Microsoft called "Access". Given time I could list hundreds more that need archiving. And even when some messy partial copy surfaces, many of these are useless without their manuals.
Chances are archive.org are just up for the attention grab, and I do hope that in the long run perhaps it benefits all media that needs archiving.
Anyone remember this game? (Score:2)
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Life?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
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ZZT?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z... [wikipedia.org]
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ZZT? http://theodor.lauppert.ws/gam... [lauppert.ws]
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Wikipedia has a list of games based on ASCII art graphics, hope it helps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
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Ya, I think it was called ZZT. I remember playing it myself (at least starting it up a few times), wasn't all that impressed mostly due to it's graphics.
I posted of the MAME collection: "I downloaded the entire MAME library from them"
ZZT isn't included, but then I wouldn't of thought it becoming an arcade game.
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got that one on my PROPER DOS VM.
Re:Anyone remember this game? (Score:4, Interesting)
Kingdom of Kroz [wikipedia.org]? Holy shit, how did that retain space in my brain? This is why I can't have nice things
uhhh... (Score:3)
How about first checking if you are allowed to publish the game like this before actually doing it?
What makes them different from any other internetuser?
I downloaded the entire MAME library from them (Score:3)
I fairly sure it's their entire library, was getting updates from the Usenet but god was that ever slow going.
MAME_0.149_CHDs_A-B
MAME_0.149_CHDs_C
MAME_0.149_CHDs_D-G
MAME_0.149_CHDs_H-N
MAME_0.149_CHDs_P-S
MAME_0.149_CHDs_U-Z
MAME_0.149_EXTRAs
MAME_0.149_ROMs
These are game disk images http://fileinfo.com/extension/... [fileinfo.com]
I added up the files (torrents) and I've got 308 Gigs worth of games, most of which I'll pry never load let alone play.
If your not aware the program MAME will load the ROMs of the old arcade games, so you can play your old favs. MAME has been ported to most tablets and cell phones, not that they all work that well. "Moon Patrol" is a great cell phone game for me as there are only 4 keys that you use, fairly fun to play and it's great bathroom throne material.
"MAME can currently emulate several thousand different classic arcade video games from the late 1970s through the modern era."
http://mamedev.org/ [mamedev.org]
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If your not aware the program MAME will load the ROMs of the old arcade games
I should add if you wish to play these arcade games on your tablets or cell phone you would just need to download the "MAME_0.149_ROMs" file.
It's got the game ROM that would be required for you systems emulator, there are 28,510 different games (ROMs) within that file so should keep you occupied.
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MAME is a nice application but the problem is that most games were not designed for fun but to make you lose as fast as possible. Simply speaking, a cabinet game will be a lot harder than the same game for console or PC. When I was young, playing cabinet games was fun partly because I did not have a lot of money. In MAME, I can just play a few minutes, die, insert a "free" coin and continue the game to die even faster ... Boring!
MAME is still interesting for people trying to beat their high-score but not fo
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MAME is a nice application but the problem is that most games were not designed for fun but to make you lose as fast as possible. Simply speaking, a cabinet game will be a lot harder than the same game for console or PC. When I was young, playing cabinet games was fun partly because I did not have a lot of money.
I've done my share of arcades, they sprang up all over the place at one time, even the 7-11's had at least one. Many times my pockets were full of quarters in the event I ran across Donkey Kong or Defender.
Gummy Worms and video games quite the combination, like they were made for each other :).
They are made to make you lose but when you do beat an arcade game, your going to get your next quarters worth. The Atari 2600 was awful for this "made to make you lose" and you owned the damn thing, just a simple ga
Late to the party (Score:3)
I've got a Virtualbox setup with MS DOS and a stack of 2GB virtual drives packed chock full of full version games and apps, I've had to put a clock limiter on it because watching USS Ticonderoga scroll through at $stupid fps makes me dizzy.
Re: short (Score:4, Informative)
Is goatse link.
Re: short (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, sounds about right for the best of games of the DOS era. There's a reason consoles absolutely dominated gaming through the 80s and 90s.
Did they? At least around here in Germany, everybody in the 80s had a C64/Amiga (or maybe Atari ST) for gaming (because you could trade disks at school). Anybody with a console would have been pitied as the poor kid who cannot play the latest games. And from '93 onwards (when Doom arrived and LAN parties started) gaming changed forever, anyway. Maybe it was different in the US, don't know, Nintento consoles apparently were more popular there (I actually cannot remember any of my friends EVER owning a Nintendo console).
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Nintendo was very popular when I was in grade school (near Washington DC). I can think of only one friend who did not have one (and they had a Sega Genesis). I still have mine, along with a spare I picked up, and 80-90 games for it. These days, I play the Super Nintendo more. I remember the schools having Atari computers, and Apple IIGS computers, but I can't remember any Commodores or Amigas. My dad used MS-DOS at work, so we had a progression of 8086-286-386-Pentium 75 MHz- Pentium II @ 450 MHz at ho
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NES was huge in the USA. Everyone I knew owned a NES which came with mario and duck hunt. Some of the games
I remember were metal gear, double dragon, zelda, ninja turtles, tetris, and mario 1, 2, and 3.
c64 never really caught on with the non-geek crowd where I lived, they went straight from the atari to the NES to the IBM PC.
At home everyone had a NES and all the schools had some variation of the apple II. NES and the super nes remained
popular until ibm overtook the apple II at school which happened ab
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The Nintendo console was very popular in the US, but it is undeniable that the C64 was a hugely successful machine. The C64 also competed more directly with earlier consoles like the Atari 2600, Colecovision, etc. The Atari 2600 was very popular because it was extremely easy to setup, plug it into a TV and that's it.
I also did a lot of Amiga and Atari ST gaming as those are the machines my Dad was into and got. I didn't have a lot of people around me with similar computers to trade games with. I believe both of those machines were much more popular in Europe while the PC compatible clones were starting to take over the US market at the end of the C64's life.
Yes, it might be that the whole "gamers bought C64/Amiga, Atari XL/ST and ZX Spectrum" thing was mainly european. I just looked at the Wikipedia article for the NES, and it says about the sales numbers "Worldwide: 61.91 million, Japan: 19.35 million, Americas: 34.00 million, Other: 8.56 million". So the whole of the world, except Japan and the US, bought only 1/4 of the number of consoles the US bought. Like I said - I do not know anybody among my friends/relatives who bought a Nintendo console. Around here
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Indeed, there was a class divide here, but it did not have so much to do with the cost of the systems. The poorer kids lived in apartment housing, which was cheaper, but only apartments had cable TV (private homes would need a satellite dish, which was both expensive and seen as vulgar/ugly). So they got a lot more cultural influence from the US. It wasn't just consoles vs. computers, it also was Transformers vs. Colargol, or Superman vs.
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Oooh, Colargol! Someone should something something Colargol in SpaceX's dragon :)
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Goatse is the reason consoles dominated gaming in the 80s and 90s?
Re:short (Score:5, Informative)
For those who have recovered from clicking your link, there's an actual short best-of:
https://archive.org/details/so... [archive.org]
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Re:Indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
The real problem is that when archive.org gets sued into oblivion over this it's going to take the good stuff with the bad.
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Being for sale or not is irrelevant to the law. Nothing is abandonware unless the owner of the intellectual property declares it to be so. Companies have created retro game packages in the past, "best of" collections, and so forth. These games do come up for sale on Steam or GoG often enough, and those licensing agreements can fall through if there's a warez site like this offering it for free. And yes, this is a warez site, the pretense of being an archive has vanished.
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Status as "abandonware" actually is based purely on whether the product can currently be bought new. However, "abandonware" is not a legal status and does not give anyone rights to copy the work.
This isn't even a gray area in the law, the law is very clear that it's illegal to copy a copyrighted work unless you are given permission by the copyright holder.
There is a gray area in the *enforcement* of copyright, though, where it's understood that both the original authors and the copyright holders don't reall
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...it does factor into determining damages...
If the copyrights are registered, then statutory damages are available, so there would be a huge sum of money involved without having to prove actual damages.
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Screw that. If you want to make money from it, put it up for sale. There's quite a few games that people would love to play but they ain't for sale anymore because their makers decided there's more money to be made by slapping a new number to it, keeping the game essentially the same but adding more draconian DRM to it with built-in expiration date so you'll have to buy the next version. Of course the "old" version (essentially the same game) isn't being sold anymore.
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True, but not how you meant it. Copyright exists to temporarily grant content creators a limited monopoly on the reproduction of their work, to reward them for creating it for us in the first place.
You pro-copyright knuckleheads just don't seem to understand that once you make use of the benefits of copyright, you need to follow through with the obligations of it. And if you won't make su
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Uh-huh. Stuff that genie back in the bottle, Clyde! Tell me - Why do you think copyright eventually expires?
Hint: Have you ever heard of a guy named Bill Shakespeare? Pity, really, that he decided to burn his entire body of work as soon as it stopped making him money... I've heard (from commentary about commentary about commentary about commentary about commentary about commentary about commentary, of course, since each succe
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Sigh. In the U.S., the existence of the Copyright Law is due to Constitution, and the purpose has nothing whatsoever to do with creator's rights. The Copyright Law exists
... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. (U.S. Constitution. Art. I, Sec. 8.)
Again, let's be clear: the purpose is to promote the progress of science and useful arts. The means of achieving it are to give authors and inventors some rights for a limited time.
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Too many mentally challenged people seriously can't have no clue about copyright and other issues. The whole concept of "abandonware" is bad enough in itself, and if it did exist it is not up to some 13 year old to define what games are or are not in that category. But some even claim that relatively new games are abandonware merely because there hasn't been a sequel announced or the DLCs have dried up.
I think these people would be better off just to be honest and say "yar I'm a pirate!" than to do more c
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Keep scrolling down they have the specific pages and what they were looking for.
Also I found the mouse didn't link up either.
Came to remember how crappy I was playing these then
MS-DOS vs. Super NES (Score:5, Informative)
You jest, but the differences in paradigm between the two platforms merit a quick refresher.
MS-DOS is an operating system for IBM-compatible personal computers that was popular before Windows 95. In gaming terms, it really didn't provide any services beyond a file system (hence the name Disk Operating System), and games for it were coded to access the VGA (graphics), Sound Blaster, keyboard, and joystick hardware directly, bypassing DOS and even BIOS. Various versions of MS-DOS were popular from 1982 through 1995, after which games started to be published for Windows. (Windows 95, 98, and Me used parts of MS-DOS as an underlying layer, but games for that were coded to the Windows 95 DirectX API.) The free software community has developed functional clone of MS-DOS called FreeDOS, much as GNU/Linux is a clone of the UNIX system. It has also developed a partial PC emulator called DOSBox that contains a stripped down clone of MS-DOS. The emulator is not quite cycle-accurate, but because of variance among manufacturers' PCs, PC games tended not to demand cycle accuracy.
Because of fundamental differences in input and graphics capabilities between MS-DOS PCs and the Super NES, games for the two tended to be in different genres. MS-DOS games drew their graphics in software to the VGA's frame buffer, while Super NES games were more likely to rely on the S-PPU's built-in scrollable tile planes and sprite capability. (About a dozen Super NES games contained a faster CPU called Super FX that made software-rendered 3D halfway practical.) With the vast difference in paradigms you can't usefully say one is "before" the other in the sense that the Super NES is "after" the NES and "before" the Nintendo 64.
MS-DOS also had something called "shareware", an early version of what people now call "IAPs". Individuals or small teams would create a game or other application and distribute a feature-limited free version through bulletin board systems and user group-hotsed copy parties. People who wanted the whole thing could mail-order a set of floppies with the complete version. This was impractical on the Super NES, with its more expensive cartridge media and Checking Integrated Circuit (CIC).
Re:MS-DOS vs. Super NES (Score:5, Informative)
More like...
Select graphics:
1. CGA
2. EGA
3. VGA
4. Tandy
Select sound:
1. Soundblaster
2. Roland MT32
3. Ensoniq
4. AdLib
5. PC speaker
Select input:
1. Keyboard and mouse
2. Keyboard only
3. Keyboard and joystick (good luck)
(remember to set IRQ/DMA! We will try to autodetect but it's very likely to crash your computer.)
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AdLib vs. Sound Blaster (Score:2)
The Sound Blaster was AdLib compatible, so there was no reason to ask for both.
I think the AdLib option would try to push sound effects through the AdLib chip, stealing channels from music if necessary, rather than mixing them into the SB's digital output.
it wasn't until Win 3.0 where you saw thing written for Windows
And in the Windows 3.x days, action games with any sort of scrolling or 3D graphics were still made for DOS because Windows was designed for enhanced-definition 640x480 modes instead of the low-definition mode 13h (320x200) and mode X (320x240) that action games used to reduce how many pixels they have to push around.
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several things:
DOS offered a command interpreter. It also offered an interface (later known as an abstraction layer) between hardware and application software. Not to mention enhanced memory management, drive compression, a bundled programming interface, batch scripting...
Microsoft didn't invent nor did it spawn the shareware concept. That accolade goes squarely on the shoulders of Andrew Fluegelman and Jim Button who invented the method by accident. The name was decided by committee.
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DOS offered a command interpreter [with] batch scripting
Which games used to set up a few things before starting the game's executable.
It also offered an interface (later known as an abstraction layer) between hardware and application software.
Which games didn't use, apart from text adventures. The DOS abstraction layer was mostly for turn-based, text-based programs: fine for programs that read lines from stdin and write to stdout and access files but not much more. It didn't, for example, offer any graphics or audio interface the way DirectX eventually would.
Not to mention enhanced memory management
Which games barely used by the 386 era when games started managing memory with "DOS extenders".
drive compression
Part of "file sys
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Dosbox? Heretic! Get that old 386 running again, install Dos 6.2 and tinker with config.sys and autoexec.bat 'til you have enough low ram to run it! That's the only true way to do it!
Re:Fucking disgraceful (Score:4, Funny)
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[almost] hear hear! I use a Virtualbox VM with MS DOS 6.22, works a treat..
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It's like those modern DDOS, but only for single user and it can only waste one person's time at a time.