Blizzard Sues Overwatch 'Cheat' Maker For Copyright Infringement (torrentfreak.com) 250
From a TorrentFreak report: Blizzard Entertainment is suing Bossland, the maker of the popular Overwatch cheat tool "Watchover Tyrant" and several other game cheats. Among other things, the developer accuses the German company of various forms of copyright infringement and unfair competition. Blizzard is not happy with the Overwatch cheat and has filed a lawsuit against the German maker, Bossland GMBH, at a federal court in California. Bossland also sells cheats for various other titles such as World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Heroes of the Storm, which are mentioned in the complaint as well. The game developer accuses the cheat maker of various forms of copyright infringement, unfair competition, and violating the DMCA's anti-circumvention provision. According to Blizzard these bots and cheats also cause millions of dollars in lost sales, as they ruin the games for many legitimate players. "Moreover, by releasing 'Overwatch Cheat' just days after the release of 'Overwatch,' Defendants are attempting to destroy or irreparably harm that game before it even has had a chance to fully flourish."
Blizzard takes games seriously (Score:2, Insightful)
Titan fall was (may be it's yet) impossible to play on Brazilian servers cause of cheaters, good to see someone cares about their business.
Re:Blizzard takes games seriously (Score:5, Insightful)
Among the consequences of twisting around an inapplicable law in this way is that any time you use a piece of software without permission from the copyright holder, including just using it in a way that the copyright holder did not intend, you are committing copyright infringement. Regardless of whether you've paid for that software, regardless of whether you have a license to use that software for another purpose. If, for example, you install a mod for a game and that game does not give explicit permission to use mods? Or to use that mod? Copyright infringement. A macro for a word processor for a word processor which doesn't want you to use macros? Or doesn't want you to use anyone else's macros? Copyright infringement.
How about if that word processor is only licensed to write letters, and you use it to make a sign? What if you use some politician's campaign app in a way which doesn't support that politician? Copyright infringement. You get the idea. Blizzard is abusing the law in a way which wasn't intended.
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it's an FPS. You can't cheat-proof a skill based game without basically taking over control of the user's computer, and doing a bunch of things that Slashdotters really would not be ok with.
So no, better programmers wouldn't help (much)
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So what's your better proposition? Handle all of the sensitive data about the game state on the server, only giving out access to those who need it?
I mean sure, it would work, but would also chew through server resources, since you'd have to have a separate instance /for every player in every game/. Not to mention network latency problems.
Are you going to start encrypting game data? Sounds like that'd seriously affect performance.
Please, explain to me how shitty programming is responsible for people hacking
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Overwatch is 12 players per game. It's not a big deal to send each client ONLY the data they can see. Plenty of games do this properly.
And encryption adds microseconds per frame at worst. Get with the times.
Of course, Blizzard thinks it's okay to run Overwatch (a fast-paced FPS) at 20 simulations per second, so...
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If they really cared about the business they'd hire better programmers rather than more lawyers.
How many more programmers? Google, Microsoft, Apple - none of them have enough programmers to prevent hacking on their products.
And remember, they're a for-profit business, producing quality products that work already. When people start throwing rocks through shop windows to get easier cheaper access do we tell them "Oh, if they cared about they're business they'd just put up strong enough windows"?
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It's unfair in general for to blame the game devs for poor quality, as management generally ships games long before they're done, over the objections of the devs. Plus, the original devs are typically writing for a locked-down console, and the PC port is often farmed out to some bottom-dollar shop that cares nothing about code quality (those guys certainly deserve the blame).
Blizzard, though, writes for the PC as a first-class platform, and doesn't ship games before they're done, so they really have no exc
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Also every dev at microsoft, apple, google, etc. Including me (programmer for government).
Blizzard's Devs are pretty good at it, stay on top of the latest tech and algorithmic concepts, keep up to date on zero days as they appear, etc.
Personally, however, I don't think you should expect Blizzard to make it "easy to catch" cheaters, with "no excuse here" until you can rea
Germany + DMCA = ? (Score:2, Insightful)
German maker, Bossland GMBH....violating the DMCA's anti-circumvention provision
How would that work? Germans are not subject to the DMCA, which is an American law.
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Basically : if the people from that German company don't go to USA, if they don't own anything in USA and if they don't use an US financial company (including Paypal), Blizzard can't do anything...
They can't force that in a californian court, they'd have to go to a German court and have the case judged against german laws... which don't include DCMA...
All that they can get in USA is a "by default" judgement which could not be enforced... hard luck...
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they'd have to go to a German court and have the case judged against german laws... which don't include DCMA...
The EU signed WIPO, which bundles the DMCA. Germany is part of the EU. Try again.
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I don't think Germany would enforce a court decision from a foreign power that couldn't at least meet critical thinking requirements.
Germany will, like any sane country, see that this is nothing more than Blizzard trying to shift its responsibility for cheat prevention in its own games to a third party and by this logic every kid cheating could also be sued, which nobody would think is a good idea, right? Of course California won't see it that way because Bliz is their sweetheart, but Germany should really
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dmca is covered up in the wipo treaty that is signed by the eu, that germany is part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
same things with eula that is valid in all countries beside the part that contradicts the countrys law
Re:Germany + DMCA = ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Every cheating player should have his account banned. Want to play again? Buy the game again.
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This is exactly what Blizzard does... if they detect them.
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Every cheating player should have his account banned. Want to play again? Buy the game again.
Blizzard isn't just banning accounts; they're banning hardware. You can't just buy another copy after being banned and continue what you were doing. This is how it should be done. There is zero excuse for cheating, and the punishment is properly severe.
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Blizzard doesn't ban on a 75% probability. They watch accounts over a long period of time. If one account is in that 75% probability, day after day after day, then they become reasonably certain of cheating and place them in the next batch of mass bans. At least, that's how they have explained they do it in WoW after players complain they don't ban fast enough (which is automatically, by some player's standards). Blizzard does care about not reflexively banning anyone and everyone.
And here I sit... (Score:3)
Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofing (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofin (Score:2, Flamebait)
Or maybe anti social dorks shouldn't make it so that entertainment requires banking level security to keep these losers from ruining the fun for everyone else. The fault lies with the cheats not the manufacturers.
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Or maybe anti social dorks shouldn't make it so that entertainment requires banking level security to keep these losers from ruining the fun for everyone else. The fault lies with the cheats not the manufacturers.
That would be a perfectly valid philosophy in a situation with a small population of people that know each other. Most people are honest, and most people don't want to be the jerk that screws things up for everybody. But that kind of thinking doesn't scale to large populations, especially where the "anonymity" of the Internet is concerned. There are people in the world, admittedly a small minority, that actually enjoy making life miserable for others. And if you have a sufficiently large population, it
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I think those guys...and yes they are almost ALL young men, should lose their internet connections.
Or failing that, their IP (and voice chat) should be logged, the ISP contacted, and a call made to their location.
"Hello, Smith residence? This is Blizzard, one of the computers at your location was logged as cheating and being a general Internet Fuckwad in our game Overwatch. Here's some of the voice chat"
Blizzard plays bit of homophobic "shitcock" style speech.
"Oh, that's your son? Well doing what your s
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And that would be an actionable lie. So yeah, that's retarded.
If you closely read the TOS of many ISPs you will find that violating a TOS of a service provider/hack/etc is also considered a violation of the ISP's TOS.
Re: Maybe they should work harder at cheat-proofi (Score:2)
How is it the manufacturer's fault for not writing perfect code? Writing perfect code is really hard and expensive. It's a game, not an investment bank.
a lot of people already have worked hard at it (Score:2)
You really can't build games like you build bank systems.
Banks don't care about things like smooth game play in the face of latency, dropped packets, server main loop update bottlenecks, etc.
Yes, a bank can implement a proper client-server architecture that never trusts the clients.
Given the limitations of the speed of light and modern computers you really can't do that for games and have an enjoyable entertainment experience.
In my experience, multiplayer games have to trust the client to some degree and ar
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According to what I've heard, American banks are pretty notorious for constantly stealing from their customers through overdraft fees and overdraft protection racket. So arguably they'd have a legitimate case of IP infringement against other thieves.
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Banking does work that way. These cheats are the equivalent of a locally compromised machine. If your machine is running malware and you log in to your online banking, it can steal your money. In the UK customers are required to take reasonable steps to protect themselves from this kind of fraud (such as using anti-virus software), because there is just no way to do online banking without trusting the client to some extent.
Blizzard is faced with players who voluntarily install this software. All they can do
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Ok, but none of those things are illegal, and shouldn't be. Claiming DMCA infringement is disingenuous.
Why shouldn't Blizzard have a means to deny people from engaging in this conduct on their servers? Do they not have rights?
*facepalms* Um wut? Saying that suing the people making cheats under the DMCA is dangerous is not saying they can't keep people from cheating on their servers. What kind of stupid guff is that?
don't set a bad precedent that car manufacturers (Score:2)
don't set a bad precedent that car manufacturers can use the same line in locking out 3rd party shops.
They can say that 3rd party parts and shops are hurting our income.
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Hurting revenue is not the basis in law for the suit, it is the basis of restitution and harm proving merit of the suit for standing. Although copyright has statutory damages and statutory rights to sue, most other cases need to show standing. These lawyers are throwing everything possible out to ensure something sticks.
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and something that interferes with a controlled driving experience. We can just put stuff in the cars like an force limp home mode if you don't have the dealer use there software to reset the oil change counter.
Bliz (Score:2, Interesting)
They have a right to police their servers. They have a right to prevent cheats from functioning. They have a right to ban players for using cheat systems.
They do NOT have a right to sue because it's their own responsibility to build software checks and balances that would prevent cheating but THEY ARE TOO TIGHTFISTED to do so. That would cost money. That would require hiring enough competent coders and paying beta testers a living wage.
Blizzard "Entertainment" lost my faith completely, long ago, since the W
Re:Bliz (Score:4, Insightful)
They DO have a right to sue. Anyone can sue pretty much anyone. That doesn't automatically mean they stand a chance of winning of course.
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>Anyone can sue pretty much anyone.
This is true for American courts, but other countries won't allow bogus suits. This is a bogus suit.
Wouldn't the cheat writters (Score:2)
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They do NOT have a right to sue because it's their own responsibility to build software checks and balances that would prevent cheating...
This is not a good argument. It's similar (similar, mind you) to arguing that you just need to suck it up when someone breaks into your house, because clearly you didn't do enough to keep them out.
The simple fact that someone was able to bypass your security does not necessarily prove you negligent, nor does it absolve the perpetrator of all responsibility for any harm caused by their actions.
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I won't go too much further into this except to beg you to reconsider your argument. It's bad for video games overall because if what you argue is upheld, then all the gaming companies will code their games without any security at all. Why should they?
I mean, they can make more money later on suing, and keep a large portion of the community happy at one point or another, while generating all kinds of free press in the process.
Because the way Bliz does security these days is not anywhere near as strong as it
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No. Just pathetically no. If someone breaks into your house, you can't rightfully sue them for copyright infringement. That is just asinine.
The primary part of the lawsuit involves the DMCA's anti-circumvention section. It's difficult comparing meat-space with online actions, but this comes close.
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Worse, they took raiding from '40 people but 25-30 good enough and well enough equipped people will do' to '25 people, must all be fully equipped, must all coordinate perfectly, and one individual making one false move costs everybody a full hour'
It stopped being gaming and became a punitive choreographed dance. I stopped playing.
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Mate, WotLK, really? Burning Crusade cut raiding from 40/20 to 25/10, that's a bigger nono than anything after that
You sure about that? Do you know how unmanageable a 40-man raid was? Do you know how difficult it was to get that many people together, to recruit and maintain such groups? There's a reason why plenty of people had played Molten Core and Blackwing Lair, while very very few groups made it inside Naxxramas, and it wasn't just that the latter with f'n hard. At that point, most raid groups had broken down, and it was harder and harder to find people capable of doing the later content, because the barrier to ent
Fine (Score:2)
So put some servers in Germany and let them do as they will. Ban German networks from hitting any other servers and done.
The problem will solve itself, no lawyers needed.
-Don't even say VPN. Works great for Netflix and the like, not so much for low latency requirements.
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The problem with separate "cheater" servers is that it would give the cheat makers a fully functional and risk-free testing ground to improve the cheating tools upto a point where they become indistinguishable from a really good human player. When they get to that point, there is nothing stopping the grievers from cheating on the normal servers too. Having servers where cheat makers are allowed effectively accelerates cheating on normal servers in exchange for a very short and only marginally improved situa
if you didn't want people to cheat... (Score:2)
then you shouldn't have released the game. -_-
Games are no longer products (Score:2)
boo-hoo (Score:2)
Blizzards solution has to be to find and eliminate the exploits.
That said, I don't have much sympathy for Blizzard "losing sales". Even with the Field of View slider they implemented, they have the FOV maximum locked low enough that people with motion sickness can't play the game. Reading through forums on Overwatch, it seems that the FOV settings might even be over-exagerated, with 103 bei
Obviously guilty of atleast one count (Score:2)
At the very least, the cheat makers are guilty of the "unfair competition" claim; it's their main selling point ;)
But why? (Score:2)
I have always been puzzled by people subscribing to a game, then cheating. I can understand the temptation to cheat a little to get over a hurdle that seems impossible, surely the pleasure of playing a game lies in knowing that you have achieved it all, or most of it, simply by your own effort? How much fun would it be to get a professional chess player to play for you right up to the last move, just before you say 'check mate'?
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Sorry for replying to my own post - I just had a thought, and it happens so rarely these days. Perhaps some players are not so much interested in doing the hard work of gaming, but still enjoy watching, seeing the landscape, exploring or whatever. Game makers could cater for them by allowing a "tourist mode", where you can travel around everywhere and won't get killed, but can't take part in the action; perhaps this already exists - I don't play games much. Or at all - there always seems to be more importan
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Divinity: Original Sin has a tourist mode, and many games have mods that let you enable 'god mode' (can't die) or other tweaks/cheats to allow exploration.
Overwatch however is an online player vs player game. I haven't played it but I suspect you could explore it offline without cheating, or online by ignoring the mayhem around you.
The people cheating will be motivated by different reasons, although some of them boil down to 'Player is a twat'.
Some people legitimately have disabilities that prevent them com
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It is a tool for griefers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer) to harrass other players. Plus, a tool for achievers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_taxonomy_of_player_types#Multi-player_appeal_to_the_Achiever) to show that they are better then others (which are losers because of not using cheats, playing unfair is not an issue for some of achievers).
Sure (Score:2)
Forget Blizzard getting off their lazy asses and fixing these problems, let's just go after those who find and exploit Blizzard's sloppy work....
Dedicated Servers (Score:2)
Allow us to run dedicated servers and moderate them our self, like in the old days.
Then cheating software will be less effective for the general public as active servers will moderate them self and the players will be less bothered by them.
Blizz using the law to fix poor design choice (Score:2)
Whatever overwatch tyrant is doing, it is merely exploiting design weaknesses in the published interface for third party devs. It is not an MMO Gider; [wikipedia.org] Blizz can't leverage the DCMA, but Blizz could and did claim tortious interference against MDY (the company the created and sold MMO Glider to hundreds of thousands of WoW players.) Blizz extracted $6M in damages after its claims of tortious interference against MDY were upheld, and I won't be surprised if Blizz makes the same claim against the makers of ove
Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know _I_ won't buy a game if I know that cheating like this exists.
Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score:5, Insightful)
I know _I_ won't buy a game if I know that cheating like this exists.
If that is the case, then you'll never be able to buy any sort of pvp game. Sad, but true.
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Except the millions of people playing shooters on consoles.
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Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score:4, Insightful)
Plenty of Blizzards games are subscription based, so yes: they lose sales to cheat bots. ... e.g. in World of Warcraft.
However they lose more sales to stupid game design decisions
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Plenty of Blizzards games are subscription based, so yes: they lose sales to cheat bots.
Only World of Warcraft is subscription based. Overwatch, Diablo, Starcraft, and Heroes of the Storm are traditional subscriptionless game purchases, and Hearthstone is free-to-play with purchasable card decks.
Most of their titles in the last decade require Battle.Net, but that part is a free service.
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They're almost certainly losing monthly subscription renewal sales as a result of the cheating. In particular, Blizzard makes far more money from WoW subscriptions than it does from the initial game purchase.
Re:There's a contradiction there. (Score:4, Interesting)
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Are you really going to be THAT guy who takes a potentially ambiguous PARAPHRASING and then uses it to derail the larger point? Blizzard didn't even say this "contradiction". The article paraphrased it as such.
Blizzard said this "Defendants’ sale and distribution of the Bossland Hacks in the United States has caused Blizzard to lose millions or tens of millions of dollars in revenue, and to suffer irreparable damage to its goodwill and reputation."
It's fine to disagree with the larger point, but there
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Blizzard still doesn't have a right to sue. They have to pony up the cash to fix the exploit holes and they don't want to pay for it but it is a cost of doing business if you're a game developer.
I wouldn't buy a Blizzard game because they are cunts. They have a cheating problem because they refuse to design better anticheat systems. Blizzard shouldn't sue they should reverse eng the cheat programs and patch. Blizzard is a garbage company. Id Software should sue them for copying Quake 3... but they won't.
And
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Of course they have the right to sue. You're confusing the right to sue with your assumption that they'll lose.
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Overwatch has microtransactions (Score:4, Insightful)
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None of which affect the game, it's just poses and voice lines and whatnot. But people quitting early = not pulling your friends along to play it too. passing recommendations etc. as well. I think that's a much bigger deal than the micro-transactions.
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I played Medal of Honor for a grand total of about 45 minutes over about five sessions spread out over a few weeks. Continuous insta-headshots from across the map.
I was done with it at that point, and refuse to consider buying another MoH franchise game.
Tell me how that does not equate lost sales?
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Let me make an analogy between a multiplayer game and a night club. A night club needs a critical mass of people to be profitable. If the number of people dips below a certain level, then the club is doomed - fewer and fewer people will show up every night, until the club is empty. Thus kicking loud and obnoxious patrons is a sensible decision, because even though they are bringing some profit to the club, they drive other customers out. Which brings me back to the reason why it makes sense to kick cheaters
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If a game is riddled with cheaters, I won't recommend it to my friends.
Rampant cheating has brought many rather good games to be ghost towns.
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I see... I would argue that it was poorly worded, then... because it seemed to suggest that the people that the cheaters were ruining the game for were people who would otherwise spend money on the game... where my above point is that if they were playing the game legitimately, then they've already spent their money on it, and cannot represent a "lost sale".
Although I can certainly see how second-hand reports could impact sales, but how the summary was worded didn't suggest that to me, and it had not occ
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Well, it wouldn't be the first time that I haven't shown common sense. It's me being stupid, and I deserve a lot of the derision.
The plethora of responses I've received and how irate I seem to have made some people makes me wonder how far an actual troll could have gotten, however.
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Such as using a torrent or The Pirate Bay causes a lost sale for a song or movie because torrents and TPB are common and word gets around.
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Someone using The Pirate Bay Edition doesn't affect anyone else, now does it? They simply have a superior version with DRM and unskippable ramblings about downloading cars removed.
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True... but my point was that such people are not legitimate players. I realize now I had poorly interpreted what was really being said and they were really talking about two separate demographics of people when they talked about lost sales and legitimate players, and not one.
Yeah, I know it should be obvious. Sorry, sometimes I can be pretty dense.
Re: Blizzard's neglegence (Score:2)
It's irrelevant whether the code is great our not. Cheats are pricks.
Re: Blizzard's neglegence (Score:2)
How about all the players that leave or never play in the first place due to the cheats wrecking the game? I've seen it happen several times.
Re: Blizzard's neglegence (Score:2)
What if you stick to real world examples where cheats are pricks who ruin the fun for everyone else and then blame the game company for not spending billions to stop them.
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Hmm. If you've never been accused of cheating on an online game, let me provide you with the reason: You're not good enough.
I was accused of cheating online in 1992 and many times since, in different games, in different formats of games. People have stopped playing on specific servers because my friends and I were just too good for them.
Cheating isn't needed.
Re: Blizzard's neglegence (Score:2)
Hmmm I have as it happens but it's got nothing to do with my point.
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Most games can be played by a bot better than by a human, the hard part in making a decent AI opponent is to make them beatable without making them a pushover.
Re: Says a lot about Blizzard (Score:2)
Pfff. Not everyone plays Alpha / Beta for the same reasons. Many are looking for bugs they can turn into $ via their "cheat" program post launch.
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I hate blizzard as much as the next guy, what they've done in WoD/Legion is a war crime, and I'm not sure why their designer and VP haven't been fired. It takes some brass balls to see your subscriber base drop off the charts, then simply stop talking about your subscribers and not telling your investors how badly you are managing things. String them all up and let the vultures at them.
That said, the anti-cheat arms race has been going on now for 20 years, and the defense side has never won. I don't think B
Re: Blizzard: Get a new business model (Score:4, Insightful)
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I would compare using a bot (with its improved reflexes, perfect aim etc.) to using doping in sports.
Try doing that and see how far you get after a blood test.
It is about having a level playing field where it is personal skill that determines your success, not whether you come up against a near-perfect computer program instead of another human.
Full disclosure: Never played Overwatch, not my preferred kind of game. I do believe in fairness, however. And I just can't wrap my head around why people would pay f
Re: Blizzard: Get a new business model (Score:4, Insightful)
Full disclosure: Never played Overwatch, I prefer much more casual games, though I do get something of a kick out of watching others (of any skill level; I often find myself as much in awe of pepoles' mistakes in games as I do their successes) play these types of games. That said, also never watched Overwatch.
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The difference is that drug companies make a bunch of good and totally legit stuff.
Bossland's business model is literally to create programs that circumvent the rules of computer games to a point where the players not paying Bossland for the cheat are essentially held ransom as they can't realistically compete.
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The difference is that software companies make a bunch of good and totally legit stuff.
See what I did there? In case you didn't: I pointed out the gaping hold in your argument.
Now, compare Bossland to the drug company making the black-market anabolics. See my point yet?
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The difference is that software companies make a bunch of good and totally legit stuff.
See what I did there? In case you didn't: I pointed out the gaping hold in your argument. Now, compare Bossland to the drug company making the black-market anabolics. See my point yet?
Black market antibiotics are made without regulation, and are one of the largest contributors to antibiotic resistance.
Assuming they were making good clean helpful drugs, then they aren't like Bossland, who aren't helping.
It's like blizzard built a carpark, charged everyone $5 to park there, then some unaffiliated company sets up out front, stops people driving in, and offers them "easy parking service" for $10, pockets the money, drives round back, in through a no-public-access service entrance, then sta
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Completely different! Cracks for Windows activation allow people to use Windows without paying for it; people using the cheat still have to buy Overwatch and pay Blizzard for access to their servers. This is more akin to writing software that makes certain Windows tasks easier, something a good many companies make an absolute killing doing, perfectly legally.
Actually, it's not like that at all, what it is like, if you want another real-world comparison, is this:
... well they're gonna pay some huge fines and go t
It's like a company that analyses speed trap cameras, and then makes a device that fools the cameras into thinking you are not speeding when you are.
All the other drivers on the road who aren't using this (illegal) device are impacted by those who do - destroying honest driver's road experience, making it unsafe, etc.
The company making these devices
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I wonder how they're going to force a German company appear in courtin the US, hehe.
This is exactly why we have trade agreements with other countries, although I have no idea if our trade agreements with Germany or the EU specifically cover this case.
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I cheat all the time in video games. Why, just a few minutes ago I reloaded my saved game so that I could retry the fight I lost.
Cheating is perfectly acceptable, in context.