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Players Seek 'No Man's Sky' Refunds, Sony's Content Director Calls Them Thieves ( 467

thegarbz writes: As was covered previously on Slashdot the very hyped up game No Man's Sky was released to a lot of negative reviews about game-crashing bugs and poor interface choices. Now that players have had more time to play the game it has become clear that many of the features hyped by developers are not present in the game, and users quickly started describing the game as "boring".

Now, likely due to misleading advertising, Steam has begun allowing refunds for No Man's Sky regardless of playtime, and there are reports of players getting refunds on the Play Station Network as well despite Sony's strict no refund policy.
Besides Sony, Amazon is also issuing refunds, according to game sites. In response, Sony's former Strategic Content Director, Shahid Kamal Ahmad, wrote on Twitter, "If you're getting a refund after playing a game for 50 hours you're a thief." He later added "Here's the good news: Most players are not thieves. Most players are decent, honest people without whose support there could be no industry."

In a follow-up he acknowledged it was fair to consider a few hours lost to game-breaking crashes, adding "Each case should be considered on its own merits and perhaps I shouldn't be so unequivocal."
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Players Seek 'No Man's Sky' Refunds, Sony's Content Director Calls Them Thieves

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  • Who would ever buy from Sony again, they've bungled many a product. BetaMax, MemoryCard, UMD, MiniDisc, BMG Rootkit, PS3 OtherOS, PS Vita, PSN hacks and pretty much all of their products are more expensive and have less features than competitors.

    • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rwven ( 663186 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:22PM (#52785549)

      Sony did not develop No Man's Sky. It's also fairly accurate to say that if someone invests 50 hours into a game and then wants a refund...calling them a thief isn't too far off base. That's the same for any retail business out there. If you bought a game and want a refund after an hour or two of trying to get things to work right, that's perfectly fine. 50 hours? No way.

      • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:28PM (#52785571)

        In general, when gamers buy a game, and like it, they don't request a refund. Even if it is a short game and they beat it within 8 hours...if that was their expectation and they liked the game, they usually put it aside and forget it.

        SOME gamers are assholes who want to get everything for free, but the industry survives because they are not the majority.

        This game got overwhelmingly negative reviews and significant numbers of gamers are all demanding a refund. These are the same gamers that usually don't demand a refund. They didn't suddenly become thieves, they felt lied-to and ripped off, and are asking for a refund.

        No thievery here at all, neither legal nor social.

      • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:31PM (#52785587)


        1) If you buy a game you buy it for life (digital does not rot), so if at any time it seems to stop working properly - especially if it never works too well in the first few weeks after release - you should be entitled to a refund.

        2) If you're a srs enthusiast, you'll be hammering the servers for a couple of weekends, which could easily add up to 50 hours of "play"time. That doesn't even mean you're getting a decent experience, just that you're putting up with it and waiting for an improvement that doesn't arrive.

        3) A thief takes something away from the owner dishonestly without the owner's consent without the intention of returning it. Since any physical copy would have to be returned in order to process a refund, and nothing is being taken from the owner at all if the purchase was digital, there is no theft. Since there is no exchange of ANYTHING without consent when a refund is issued, there is no theft. Since there is nothing dishonest about asking for and getting a refund, there is no theft. A lesson in law or ethics might help u here.

        • by Hylandr ( 813770 )

          A thief takes something away from the owner dishonestly without the owner's consent, regardless of whether or not they plan on returning it.


          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Not in English law (and some legal systems derived from it), matey.

            TWOCing ("taking without consent") is a separate offence in English law, often used for vehicles which are "borrowed" but then returned, because the Theft Act 1968 requires a lack of intention to return.

            There is a blatant ethical and social difference between borrowing something without the owner's permission, and depriving the owner of something permanently without their permission. In the former case, if the item is returned in as-found co

          • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
            Not in English Common Law (as exercised in the US, and most of the former British colonies). Theft requires intent to deprive the owner of something permanently.

            Like most FTFY, your "fix" is less correct than the original.
        • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Dputiger ( 561114 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @07:31PM (#52786805)

          Experience isn't physical, yet it's something you can buy. When you purchase a game, beat it, and then return it after spending dozens or hundreds of hours playing the title, you've enriched yourself with that experience -- an experience you wouldn't have had otherwise.

          You may not be returning something physical, but our concept of property isn't solely tied to physicality. That's why intellectual property is a thing. Now, I suppose if you're fundamentally against the existence of IP you can argue that theft doesn't exist -- but I find this a limited definition that doesn't really match reality. If playing a prerecorded song for hundreds of people at an event can count as infringement (and it does) despite the fact that nothing physical has been stolen or removed, then clearly property has more than a physical component.

          • by guises ( 2423402 )
            Intellectual Property is a thing in order to allow companies to own ideas without explicitly owning ideas (forbidden by copyright law).

            I don't see how your conclusion follows from your argument. Yes, doing something illegal can count as infringement even if nothing has been stolen or removed. What does that have to do with property? Not all crimes are property-related.
      • It's also fairly accurate to say that if someone invests 50 hours into a game and then wants a refund...calling them a thief isn't too far off base.

        That depends if they were looking for an advertised feature that the developers knew wasn't there but were intentionally vague about it anyway.

        I mean we're talking about a game that even has an online play written on the box along with PEGI age restriction which is automatically applied to online games which interact with other characters. Except you won't see this unless you look under the sticker they stuck over it. []

        Time is not a metric that comes into play for intentionall

        • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Informative)

          by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:58PM (#52785927) Homepage

          The developers weren't just intentionally vague, they outright lied, straight yes-or-no answers to straight yes-or-no questions about what was in the game, just days before the release. Then even after release they continued to lie about it. When two players went to the same place at the same time to see each other (something the developers had continually insisted was possible), the developers pretended it was a bug - even though they knew damn well that it was physically impossible. The game has no real-time net traffic needed to support multiplayer and there is no serious player model included in the game files (there's a couple comical temporary development models [] in there, along with a monkey in a hat, the Fallout logo, and a bunch of other amusing stuff, mind you).

          The reason that so many people played for so long before seeking refunds was because the developers kept insisting that things were in the game that most definitely weren't. And they put in this huge "grind" to try to slow everyone down, to drag out how long it would take for them to find this out. When a player playing nonstop for 20 hours managed to reach the center of the galaxy (the goal) on the same day as release, going through the relentless over-and-over clicking to do so, the developer's "solution" to the "problem" was to cut the distance you travel per warp by a third, tripling the clicky busywork. And they introduced a bug at the exact same time they did so.

          And BTW, after being told that everything's at the center of the galaxy - that the creatures get weirder, there's more going on there, that there's a big exciting ending there, you know what's actually there? Absolutely nothing. You go to the center and the game actually punishes you. There's no ending, just an animation of you flying out of the center and it crash lands you in the next galaxy, which is no different from the current one.

      • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Interesting)

        by sjames ( 1099 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:04PM (#52785697) Homepage Journal

        That depends. If they find out at the end that a killer bug means you can't complete it, or if you try everything figuring that killer feature they advertised has to be unlocked only to find that it just isn't there., returning after 50 hours may be perfectly fair.

      • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:4, Insightful)

        by AK Marc ( 707885 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:51PM (#52785891)
        50 hours is a weekend of play. Hoping they'll find the content they were promised. Playing it for a weekened then wanting a refund after lots of play that wasn't as advertised isn't theft. Wearing a dress once to a wedding and requesting a refund is theft. Not because you got use from it, but because it's diminished the value of the object to the owner, once returned.

        That it's marginally more entertaining than solitaire doesn't mean it's theft to return a game that isn't as was described when sold. Hell, VW is taking cars back *years* after they were sold and well used, because they weren't as advertised.

        Apparently fraud to sell is OK in your world, but returning something when it's discovered isn't.
      • Re:It's Sony - duh (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lgw ( 121541 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:56PM (#52785907) Journal

        50 hours? No way.

        You could spend 50 hours in NMS just looking for any of the 100 missing promised features. Sure it's not all a lie? Surely it's there somewhere? Dammit.

        The marketing for this product was likely illegal under most nations' consumer protection laws - heck, it was so blatant that even under US law they probably crossed the line. When a product is "not fit for purpose", playtime isn't a relevant factor. If Sony's giving refunds, it's only because their legal team told them to stay clear of fraud. I'll give Steam credit for actually caring about customer trust.

      • Sony did not develop No Man's Sky. It's also fairly accurate to say that if someone invests 50 hours into a game and then wants a refund...calling them a thief isn't too far off base. That's the same for any retail business out there. If you bought a game and want a refund after an hour or two of trying to get things to work right, that's perfectly fine. 50 hours? No way.

        Maybe Sony should install a rootkit on their computer... you know since they are probably criminals anyways.

      • If you bought a game and want a refund after an hour or two of trying to get things to work right, that's perfectly fine. 50 hours? No way.

        You're forgetting the part where the developer, lying, told users 'There's lots out there you just have to explore and find it!' - Some were more trusting of this than others and spent more time exploring trying to find these things that, it turns out, don't actually exist in the game. Spending 50 hours being naive doesn't mean you're a thief while the person who clued in after 8 hours isn't. Both are victims of fraud and deserve their refunds.

    • The same people who keep buying from Electronic Arts?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:00PM (#52785463)

    ...are Hello Games and Sony. They both knew they had a steaming turd of a game, they released it for full price anyway and expected people to just put up with it.

    At least Valve has the integrity to do the right thing, refund players their money for a game that is broken, has none of the features its now-secluded big mouth Sean Murray claimed and if it were fixed, if it were bug free, it would still be a title that would normally go for free-to-play for PSN subscribers.

    Really starting to re-think whether or not I'll be buying a console for gaming in the future...

    • by Rei ( 128717 )

      Indeed, at least PC users have mods, like "Low Flight" (takes off the game's annoying "training wheels" that take any semblance of fun out of flying over a planet) and "Big Things" (so that trees and rocks can be bigger than the tiny default ~7 meter maximum)

  • by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:02PM (#52785473) []

    A walking simulator on 18 million planets.

    It's not surprising anyone wants their money back. It's also kind of hard to see how anyone "Stole" the content unless it was the same planet 18 million times.

    • The title doesn't do the rest of the review justice where he said

      The game recalls “walking simulators” but without the curated experience or careful narrative structure of the good ones.

      So not even as good as some walking simulators.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny) []

      A walking simulator on 18 million planets.

      It's not surprising anyone wants their money back. It's also kind of hard to see how anyone "Stole" the content unless it was the same planet 18 million times.

      That review is on Breibart. Shouldn't they fake a video of interesting gameplay and claim it's great?

    • []

      A walking simulator on 18 million planets.

      It's not surprising anyone wants their money back. It's also kind of hard to see how anyone "Stole" the content unless it was the same planet 18 million times.

      I'm a bit out of the loop on this game. Is this not a 'fly around in space exploring the galaxy' game? All the screen shots I've seen have just been on the surfaces of planets.

      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        Because the "flying around the galaxy" aspect is pretty limited, and deliberately slowed to a crawl.

  • 50 hours of crap. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    There are some scam games on Steam that are designed to last two hours to get past the refund limit.

    No Man's Sky is one of these.

    • Re:50 hours of crap. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by lgw ( 121541 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @04:14PM (#52785995) Journal

      For those who have someone escaped the drama associated with NMS and want to learn what all the fuss is about, this review [] does a great job of explaining - not just listing the missing features, but showing the emotional impact it had on fans who were incredibly hyped for the game.

      There are some scam games on Steam that are designed to last two hours to get past the refund limit.

      No Man's Sky is one of these.

      I think that may be accidental - at least, I don't credit the devs with the skill to cook that up. The problem here is that the game is missing nearly every promised feature, but there's no way to discover that until you leave the first planet. Then it all turns to shit. The timing, specifically, was likely a coincidence, but Hello Games definitely knew what they were shitting out.

      Also, the game crashes frequently even on console, but it can go hours between crashes. For PC, we're used to that sort of shit, and while I think that's still worth a refund, you wouldn't get mass outrage. On the console OTOH, Just Works (TM) is the freaking point of console games.

      Still, had the game not been missing almost every promised feature, I think the player base would have been content to wait for a patch to fix the crashes.

  • Dear Mr.Ahmad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:05PM (#52785491)

    Thanks for reminding us all why we should never buy Sony products.
    If you don't want customers demanding a refund, maybe you should consider making better products instead of the half baked shite you seem to produce.

    • and also thanks for reminding us that Twitter is the place to memorialize things said before thinking. At least you followed-up to soften it a bit after reviewing the, you know, facts. Kudos for that; many Twitter-users who post something stupid would just as soon double-down on whatever idiocy they posted.

  • In all fairness... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:07PM (#52785495)

    It takes about 50 hours to realize the features they promised aren't there. The "universe" is so big you continue to give it a chance, thinking you'll come across the things they promised later.

  • I haven't been a gamer for well over a decade (except whenever a new Civ comes out - when you lose me for a couple of weeks - a tradition since the first Civ) so I don't know if things have changed significantly, but is 50 hours of play time currently considered a lot? Especially with a game described as giving you an infinite procedural universe to explore? But in any case, if he is the *former* Sony director why would this guy's quotes be part of the news story?
    Also, if the other post I read where two peo

  • Clickbait headline (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:14PM (#52785521)

    This guy left Sony in december 2015 []. Why lie and say "Sony's Content Director Calls Them Thieves" ?

    I don't particularly care for Sony (read: I think they're miserable bastards), but come on!

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by destinyland ( 578448 )
      Um, because while working at Sony (for 10 years) he was the one who acquired the rights to No Man's Sky for the company. (According to TFA...)

      So he's very clearly the person at Sony who's most invested in the game's reception -- and was in fact the content director responsible for its presence at Sony in the first place.
  • by gavron ( 1300111 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:20PM (#52785541)

    If you're refusing a refund to a player who hates your game after playing it for 50 hours...

    You're the wrong person to be a decision maker.

    - You made a game that someone hates after only two days
    - After giving your game every chance in the world to live up to what the player expects, after 50 hours of play they can't stand it anymore and never want to play it again
    - You defrauded (in the legal sense) consumers who bought your product expecting to get what they were told only to find they weren't.

    This is not unusual for Sony [] but it is just another example of a company that HATES ITS CUSTOMERS and wishes they would just SPEND MONEY AND SHUT UP.

    I'm sorry, Sony. This is why I gave my PS3 away. This is why I will never ever buy your products.

    Those players you've upset... they're not like me. They're fans of your products. They looked forward to this game.
    Oops. Not any more.

    Public corporations exist to improve shareholder value. Typically this is done with growth and sales. Good luck alienating all your customers and seeing those chickens come home to roost.

    Ehud "Sony can kiss my arstechnica" Gavron
    Tucson, AZ US

    • by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:26PM (#52785771) Homepage
      50 hours of gameplay is a long time. As an example, I started playing Tomb Raider (2013) a few days ago - got it in a sale literally years ago and never played, finally got round to playing it. I've completed the story, and am just going back to polish off the areas I didn't get 100% completion on. Only two of those to go, and I'm done.

      I have 56 hours of gameplay logged. Just to recap - I've done damned near everything, thoroughly enjoyed myself, and have 56 hours logged. 50 gameplay hours at a game I hate? That would be insane.
      • by bsolar ( 1176767 )
        It depends: in some games it's not even enough to get started. No Man's Sky developers touted multiple times the sheer size of the game and the incredible length of time required to play it. If the overall game is designed to require gaming hours in the multiple hundreds, 50 hours is nothing.
        • by mccalli ( 323026 )
          Partially agreed, but whether the game is designed to require more than 50 hours or not you personally would be able to tell whether you were enjoying it by that point. I have hundreds of Skyrim hours logged, but would have stopped playing after only a few hours if I didn't like it. Conversely I tried The Witcher (first one) recently and just didn't get alone with it at all - about two hours in total. Elite:Dangerous, a very direct comparison to No Mans Sky, I've not really got along with either despite bei
    • I think 50 hours is stretching it for a non-MMO game. Played for 1 or 2? Sure. Maybe even 10? Okay. But by that point you should know if it's the game you expected.

      If a restaurant has terrible service and food but you stay for the full 5-course meal and dessert anyway, do you then refuse to leave a tip and ask for a full refund?

      Do you ask for a refund of every movie you watch in the theater that you don't like after watching all of it?

      There are $60 games that don't even HAVE 50 hours of gameplay. At 50 hour

  • by luvirini ( 753157 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:47PM (#52785637)

    This is another reminder on why one should not buy new games as they come out.

    Things like:
    Missing features
    Huge bugs
    A lot of the content moved to DLCs for separate price.

    I stopped buying new titles quite many years ago and instead I just wait until they hit the bargain bin, preferably in an all inclusive version that includes all the DLCs maybe two years later. Also the biggest bugs should have been fixed by that time and so on.

    In some cases it is hard to wait, but so far I have held fast. Fallout 4 was the recent "difficult to not buy" thing, but since they are almost done with the DLCs for it, I can likely get it some time next year for a more reasonable price for the all DLCs included version.

    • by Kohath ( 38547 )

      Congratulations. You're a grown-up, responsible adult. The rest of the Internet should grow up and follow your example. Thanks.

  • ...playing a game for 50 hours and then returning it is much like buying an outfit for a special occasion, wearing it to it, and then returning it.
    The sleaze fact is pretty much the same, and the only fact that would mitigate the game playing (and no one has alleged this) is at that point the game then becomes unplayable.

    • by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

      Allow me to fix the analogy for you:

      This is akin to Hugo Boss advertising a suit that is guaranteed to get you laid at one out of three times. You buy it, you wear it to three dates and go "Hmmm... Well, it could be date number 5 and six out of six, right?"

      So you go on three more dates. Still haven't been laid. So either you bring it back now, already MUCH too late to return it with any semblance of it being unworn, or you go for three out of nine. Some people are optimists, others desperate...

      So who is the

  • by Sperbels ( 1008585 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @02:51PM (#52785651)
    Teenagers whine about getting their money back more frequently than they masturbate. If the server goes down for a few hours, money back. If their character dies, money back. If someone griefs them, money back. If Joe has green armor and John can't get some too, money back. If they're bored with playing this game after a month, money back. I'm not even joking here. If you've ever frequented any MMO forum all the way back to Ultima Online (literally just pick any MMO) they're loaded with these kids whining about refunds.
  • I wonder if hes this passionate about the SecuRom debacle.
  • You would think he would know the distinction. You can safely ignore anything he says on this subject.
  • Given the blatantly false hype on the game right up to the day before the launch, I'd say the refunds are preventing a much more expensive class action lawsuit that could very easily be won by the players by just running the trailer footage alongside the actual gameplay footage. What was promised was not delivered, and the only reason you had as many preorders as you did was due to the promises of the developers. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it and pissed off again, maybe I'll pen a letter to the FT
  • No good-guys here (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RogueyWon ( 735973 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @03:43PM (#52785847) Journal

    Really, nobody comes out of this one looking particularly well.

    No Man's Sky is a mediocre, so-so-ish game. If it had been a $25 indie title that slipped out quietly, it would probably have had a pretty decent reception. But it was hyped, by a developer who appears to want to be the second coming of late-career Peter Molyneux, to be a game that was both fundamentally different to and better than the game that was actually released.

    But the people asking for refunds after putting a serious amount of time into the game are also kinda jerks. Digital-purchase refunds have come on a long way in the last couple of years. Weirdly, we have EA to thank for this, as they were the first major party to take the plunge on it, via Origin (hey, credit where it's due). But refund policies set sensible limits. If you've put double-digit hours into a game before deciding you want a refund, you are probably doing something wrong. What's more, the gap between expectations and reality with No Man's Sky was widely known within 24 hours of release. If you got stung because you pre-ordered... then for the love of all that is holy, stop pre-ordering.

    And a special de-merit here for much of the gaming media. Quite a few outlets have put more time into defending Hello Games, because gamers are angry with them (boo! hiss! angry gamers! they must all be sexists!) than they have taking them to task for some seriously deceptive marketing.

    I did buy it myself. A week or so after launch (so I knew full well what it was like), I managed to get a fairly cheap PC code via At the greatly discounted price I paid, the game is more or less worth the money. I put 12 hours or so into it before I got bored and moved on. Mods might add some value to it in time. But I don't feel the need for a refund.

    • The problem here is that within 24 hours of release, Hello Games was putting out all kinds of statements about how they were going to fix all of the issues people were having and how the "servers" were "down" due to the massive amount of simultaneous players the game had on release. It's not unreasonable to assume on that basis that there WAS a multiplayer mode and that it merely wasn't working because of server capacity issues.

      A reasonable player seeing the statements that Hello Games made could easily hav

      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        Which was yet another lie.

        1) Players playing has gone down over 90% since then on average. At off peak it's a fraction of even that. It makes no difference.

        2) There is no attempt at real-time network traffic whatsoever. Nothing sends out real-time packets. Nothing is designed to receive them.

        3) There is no player model in the game's files. There's some comically bad development models, along with weirdness like a monkey in a hat and the Fallout logo. But no actual player model.

        There is no multiplayer.

  • I didn't read much about this game before it came out, but it seemed interesting since exploring landscapes is some of my favorite stuff to do in games. So far it seems a lot like Starflight by Electronic Arts which I loved as a kid, and I'm happy with that.

    Sounds like a lot of people were promised something that was not well defined, and was partially defined by just the aspirations developers had, and then the potential buyers filled in the gaps with their own ideas of what could be. The first pre-release

  • The reason they're so eager to give refunds is likely to avoid false advertising lawsuits. Even on release, many of the collector's edition boxes had a sticker over the ESRB/CERO rating. Why? Because even after the game went gold, the ESRB and CERO both believed that the game had online multiplayer. The sticker had a replacement ESRB/CERO rating that was different because the ESRB and CERO now understood that there was no online content whatsoever.

    At the same time, there are also "online features" in the game which don't appear to actually do anything. People were reporting earlier this week that the game doesn't save any of the names you give to planets or creatures - once you've named enough stuff, the older stuff starts getting deleted. I don't know if anyone's been over the game with a network mapper to see if it's sending out packets of any sort, but I'd guess not.

    The companies are probably giving refunds so late because they don't want a class-action lawsuit on their hands. I'm sure a class-action attorney could find plenty of people who bought the game on the reasonable belief (given the interviews the lead developer did with various media outlets) that the game had multiplayer.

  • When I read about the game, it sounded like a LOT of fun, so I checked into Steam to see if it was one of the ever-growing number of titles that run on Linux.. Alas, I was to find it was not.. Since I don't/won't run Windows on any of my computers, and use the Linux Steam client, I found that I was not going to be able to play *this* game.. After reading this article, It seems I dodged a bullet, both due to the lies AND the fact that Sony is behind this... Microsoft and Sony are on the "dead_to_me" list....

  • by n3r0.m4dski11z ( 447312 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @05:48PM (#52786411) Homepage Journal

    I have heard costco has a legendary refund policy. That they will take back things after years of use.

    Those are physical things that use real resources. No mans sky can be copied and deleted a billion times effortlessly, but only a 2 hour refund window? Why can't we have refunds whenever the hell we want on intangible property?

  • by luther349 ( 645380 ) on Sunday August 28, 2016 @07:55PM (#52786879)
    this is why you never preorder anything sit back a bit after launch to see if its shit and today thats the case with most stuff. but like good sheep whatever is next on the hype train everyone will be smashing that preorder button.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.