PUBG and Epic Games, Makers of Two of the World's Most Popular Video Games, Set To Battle in Court (bloomberg.com) 174
PUBG, an affiliate of South Korean studio Bluehole, is suing the Korean unit of North Carolina-based Epic Games, arguing that its smash hit Fortnite copies many of the characteristics of its own PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. The suit, alleging copyright infringement, was filed in South Korea. From a report: PUBG introduced its game last year and it became a huge hit as players embraced the Hunger Games-style concept in which 100 players race to kill each other until there's a sole survivor. But the game's features have been embraced by rivals, prompting earlier legal action. Fortnite has a similar concept of 100 people competing with each other, but differs by letting players build fortifications similar to Minecraft and using more cartoon-like graphics aimed at younger players "This is a measure to protect our copyrights," PUBG said, declining to provide further details. Epic Games didn't immediately respond to requests for comment. The two companies have a complicated relationship. Epic Games provides PUBG with its Unreal Engine technology, which was used to create PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. The software is instrumental in building games and is the industry-standard for professional games developers. Both companies are also partly owned by Tencent Holdings, China's internet giant.
Hunger games? (Score:5, Informative)
I think you meant to say 'Battle Royale'..
Re: (Score:1)
For the uninformed. Battle Royale is Japanese Manga/Anime/Movie. That is a basis for both Hunger Games (even if author refusses to admit she ripped it off) and PUBGe (even if they don't want to admit it either).
The manga features a classroom that gets dumped into an island with the premise of 'Last Man Standing', they each get a random weapon (sounds familiar?), some of them useful, some of them not. There's no shrinking teritory, but there is a time limit and one of the items given out is other player loca
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Battle Royale is Japanese Manga/Anime/Movie
Technically it's a novel; the rest followed that. Most people know it through the film.
That is a basis for both Hunger Games (even if author refusses to admit she ripped it off)
Those books feel influenced more by John Wyndham and John Christopher than by Battle Royale.
PUBGe (even if they don't want to admit it either).
Nonsense. Last man standing games have been an online multiplayer gaming staple since well before Battle Royale was written.
Re:Hunger games? (Score:5, Funny)
* with cheese
Re: Hunger games? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Hunger games? (Score:4, Interesting)
The genre doesn't deserve such a fine provenance, but I think it was from the Japanese film that spawned the competition portion of The Hunger Games.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0... [imdb.com]
I enjoyed it. Your tastes may differ greatly, but if you're ok with stylized hyper-violence, I'd recommend it.
Re: (Score:2)
That movie was released in 2000. It seems the term "battles royal" or "battle royale" was first used in this context as early as 1671 [merriam-webster.com]. 1.a.a fight participated in by more than two combatants; especially : one in which the last fighter in the ring or the last fighter standing is declared the winner.
Battle Royal in pro wrestling goes back at least to Wrestlemania 2 [denofgeek.com] which took place on April 7th, 1986 [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Granted, I'm probably giving too much credit, but the movie mirrors the generic game scenario almost exactly.
I've only played Fortnite, but the only thing the movie lacks is the drop from the helicopter.
(I think. Been a while.)
Re: (Score:2)
In 1999 in Unreal Tournament this was called Last Man Standing or LMS
Re: (Score:1)
To be fair battle royale dates back to the Romans and the arena.
Re: (Score:2)
From the January 12, 1936 issue of The Ogden Standard-Examiner:
TWELVE nationally known wrestlers provide the entertainment for Ogdenites at the Elks club Tuesday night. Ogden's first wrestling battle royal will be the outstanding feature of the lengthy card.
There's other articles using the word going back to 1923 on (paywalled) newspapers.com according to Google.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Hunger games? (Score:4, Insightful)
Battle Royale is the genre term but it pretty much got its idea from the hunger games
Because we never had death match modes until Hunger Games....
Re: (Score:1)
"Last Man Standing" has been a multiplayer game mode since the earliest days of multiplayer gaming, but the heavy focus on exploring for gear in a collapsing play area is fairly recent. The earliest battle royale game I played with a collapsing play area was a high-speed arena-style shooter with only one weapon. I don't remember the name of the game, but I guess I played it about 6-7 years ago.
Been around since Super Bomberman (Score:4, Informative)
the heavy focus on exploring for gear in a collapsing play area is fairly recent.
4-player Super Bomberman and Bomberman 64, published by Hudson Soft, were around in the 1990s. Both had last man standing, exploring for gear (bomb and flame powerups), and a collapsing play area once less than a minute remained in a 2-minute match. But I'll grant that in the timescale of the law in question, which reaches back to 1923, video games themselves are "fairly recent."
Re: (Score:2)
Battle Royale is more than just a deathmatch, though.
Re: (Score:2)
it has 2 more letters in the name. so it is literally "more than just deathmatch"
Re: Hunger games? (Score:5, Informative)
It's also pretty clear that The Hunger Games got its idea from Battle Royale [wikipedia.org]
Re: Hunger games? (Score:2)
Oh you might be right. I didn't even know that book was a thing. My bad
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Before the formalization of the Scientific Process. The discoveries of the past were used using more of philosophic ways of thinking. Where we just worked purely on correlation to create our ideas on how things work.
For example Sailors used to eat lemons to fight scurvy. This worked because Scurvy is a Vitamin C deficiency and Lemons have a high Vitamin C.
Buy why didn't they use more palatable Oranges? They would had work well too. Well the correlation between Scurvy and Salty environments (such as with
Re: (Score:2)
Very ripe lemons are actually sweet, too (sour and sweet)
Steel was invented/discovered long long before Alchemy even was a topic.
Re: (Score:2)
It is also precisely because of alchemy that the modern fields of chemistry and molecular (and below) physics exist. The alchemists were meticulous (if cryptic) about documenting their processes, and the belief that any useful process must be repeatable led directly to our modern concept of the scientific method. That, in turn, led to continually refining the experiments to discern slightly-more-precise results, which eventually showed that the theories of alchemy were altogether incorrect.
Once alchemy was
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Or maybe The Long Walk (1979). [wikipedia.org] Or maybe the idea of "kids in a competition to the death" just isn't that hard to come up with.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. The film Battle Royale is from year 2000.
Re: (Score:2)
Or "The highlander" where their can be only one.
This Genre has been around forever. In essence when ever someone wants to prove themselves to be the best, this Genre is popular.
Re: (Score:2)
Battle Royale is the genre term but it pretty much got its idea from the hunger games
If you're talking about the movies, the setup was just a basic 24 man team deathmatch with two man teams. I think we had that back in the Quake 2 (maybe 1, but I can't remember) days. I've never heard PUBG/Fortnite equated with hunger games myself. "battle royale" seems to be the new term for 100 person FFA.
Re: (Score:1)
sg_oneill Except there's a movie that pre-dates hunger games and is actually called Battle Royale. It's literally the concept which these games are based -- In the movie 100 students are put on an island, given various random weapons and forced to fight each other to the death and the final standing survivor is the winner.
Battle Royale the book is from 1999 and the movie is from 2003. Hunger Games the novel is from 2008 and the movie is from 2012.
So it's pretty clear you are just plain wrong. So next tim
Re: (Score:1)
Except you're wrong, as the actual MANGA was fully completed in 1996, and only got PUBLISHED in 1999.
So looks like you don't know much of shit about BR.
Re: (Score:2)
Battle Royale is the genre term but it pretty much got its idea from the hunger games
Didn't hunger games get its idea from the film battle royale, who's name is a generic term for a large unorganised battle with lots of sides anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It came from a movie according to the news reports on this.
Re: (Score:2)
So did you post twice or are two ACs randomly drawing The Hunger Games into the same conversation (and both doing so from a position of idiocy)?
Bad plan (Score:2)
Ask silicon knights how suing epic for something stupid goes.
Re: Bad plan (Score:2)
They didn't even invent the genre. Almost every element being sued after was in Ark survival of the fittest, and even that took a lot of elements from the original Minecraft hunger games whatever it's called mod
Re: (Score:2)
ARK is not a Battle Royale game. Secondly, the creator of PUGB has other Battle Royale games that predate ARK.
Re: (Score:2)
PU. Made a BR mod for DayZ in ARMA2 and then ARMA3. H1Z1 devs used to watch Lirik play the ARMA DayZ BR mod on Twitch. As an after though added a BR mode to H1Z1. Which in itself is a copy of the ARMA DayZ mod. H1Z1 only took off because Summit1G played it on twitch "Summit's in the pit" in Alpha and very early Beta. It was a buggy mess. H1Z1 then brought in PU to "fix" H1Z1. The the devs split the game to H1Z1 King of the Kill and the survival game. Finally it went free to play. PU then built his own stand
Re: (Score:2)
Doom had it well before Unreal tournament.
Re: (Score:2)
..and other non-FPS games before that.
Re: (Score:1)
Silicon Knights... funny story, I worked in the same building as their office. After it was emptied, the building manager let me in to get a new desk as everything left was abandoned to the building. Was such a surreal feeling.
I found it amazing how they think they can take the unreal engine, basically do a ctrl+h and replace anything that says Epic to Silicon Knights, and then sue Epic saying it's their engine. Mind blowing.
Re: (Score:3)
Unless they think they can patent a genre this'll end badly,
They don’t think they can patent a genre. That’s why this is about copyright infringement. Not that that makes there case any less silly.
Re: Bad plan (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
It also sets a bad example for the future. The culture that allows these minor variations between entertainment products might be in danger. Without it, we couldn't have the simultaneous holiday smash hits of Armageddon and Deep Impact, witch were variations of the same movie but for different audiences.
Re: (Score:2)
Or it may be a good example if they lose spectacularly.
Re:Bad plan (Score:5, Interesting)
PUBG are the same idiots that thought they could copyright the concept of using a frying pan as a weapon, or using default graphics assets.
So, yeah, they are probably that stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not the genre. But let's be honest. They completely copied the start up scenario swapping a plane for a bus, parachuting in, and the shrinking zone. They used the similarities in the early days entice players over with its familiarity. I'm not saying its a case they should win, that's not my area of expertise, but I can certainly see it being brought up.
Re: (Score:2)
Parachuting in.. Battlefield Vietnam, if not before
Random start position.. in an online multiplayer 'last man standing' game in 1992
Shrinking zone.. added to that game in 1993 or 1994
These aren't new or unique ideas.
Can you steal something that is already stolen? (Score:1, Informative)
PUBG did certainly not come up with that game concept, the DayZ mod did it in ARMA 2 back in 2013.
They are the ones who should start lawsuits if anyone.
If PUBG actually wins this case it would be embarassing that we can have such shitty copyright laws IMO.
Re: Can you steal something that is already stolen (Score:2)
Even the DayZ mod got its ideas from a popular minecraft mod. And these guys know it
Re: (Score:2)
That Hunger Games Minecraft mod you keep referencing came out like 7 months after DayZ was released.
Re: (Score:1)
No respawn Quake deathmatch for example did it in the mid 90ies
There are probably earlier examples as well.
Perhaps... (Score:2)
But did it support a 100 or more users?
You see, it clearly is now a wholly new patentable game because obviously supporting more users makes it TOTALLY different.
USPO - Oh, wow...you're totally right. Patent granted.
Re: (Score:2)
No one is being sued over patents. Secondly, what does the USPTO have to do with South Korea? You know, the country the lawsuit is filed in.
Patent Cooperation Treaty (Score:2)
A U.S. patent and a Korean patent can arise from an application pursuant to the Patent Cooperation Treaty of 1970 [wikipedia.org]. This establishes, among other things, a filing date and a preliminary search for prior art on which national patent examiners can rely, though each member country has the authority to grant a patent or not.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure but the USPTO can't issue patents in South Korea. And again, the lawsuit has nothing to do with patents in the first place.
Re: Perhaps... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Execpt no patents are involved. This is all about claims of copyright infringement.
Re: Perhaps... (Score:3)
Re:Can you steal something that is already stolen? (Score:5, Insightful)
PUBG did certainly not come up with that game concept, the DayZ mod did it in ARMA 2 back in 2013.
The guy who made the DayZ mod is the creator of PUGB. So, yes, he did come up wih the game concept used in DayZ.
Re: (Score:2)
I have no idea what the real law is but all of these games are almost exactly copying the concept from the movie Battle Royal. If anybody has a copyright claim seems like would be the people who made the movie .
Re: (Score:2)
I have no idea what the real law is but all of these games are almost exactly copying the concept from the movie Battle Royal. If anybody has a copyright claim seems like would be the people who made the movie .
Or the WWE (formerly known as WWF), from the 1980s. Or tournament melees from the 1400s.
Re: (Score:2)
Unless DayZ has changed significantly in the last five years, it's nothing like PUBG. DayZ is a massive map zombie survival game with PvP action. No simultaneous aircraft drop, no contracting circle, no care packages, no hope.
Re: (Score:2)
Based on Survivor Gamez streamer event, based on Hunger Gamez streamer events, based on last man standing game modes and the concepts from Battle Royale and Hunger Games, based on running man.
Any way, you can't copyright game concepts in the US ... dunno about SK, but if the judges there are crazy enough to allow it they will have barrels of funs in the future.
Art immitating life (Score:3)
Well. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd be much more worried about Overwatch vs Team Fortress 2 in that case.
Pretty much the same game, different graphics.
Re: (Score:2)
Or Heroes of the Storm vs DOTA 2 vs League of Legends. Seriously, it's all the same game. Made all the more confusing by the fact that the original DOTA was Defense of the Ancients - a mod (for lack of a better term) for Warcraft 3 (a Blizzard game). And yet Heroes of the Storm (made by Blizzard/Activision) is actually the most recent of that list of copycats and the least likely to be able to claim copyright infringement in that case.
Not that it matters. I suspect the ruling will be that general game m
Re: (Score:2)
Not that it matters. I suspect the ruling will be that general game mechanics are not protected by copyright law.
I'm reading through the complaint right now, it looks like that's the situation. Most are scène à faire look-and-feel elements and gameplay elements, neither are protected. The trade dress claims are based on scène à faire (standard elements for the style of game) elements.
Reading through it, there are: Look and feel of pre-game lobby, islands with bridges, towns, farms, rural and urban areas, battlefield noises, weapons and armor, these are all scène à faire. Others are no
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I suspect the ruling will be that general game mechanics are not protected by copyright law.
I don't think there's any suspicion at all. Board game mechanics cannot be protected by copyright, so the same standard will be applied to computer games as well.
Re: (Score:2)
DOTA actually wasn't the first Warcraft 3 custom map in its genre. There were many variants of a game called Aeon of Strife which mostly just used the default abilities. I'm not even sure if these maps were the first.
Also, there was a lawsuit about Heroes of the Storm because they were originally going to call it DOTA 2 until they found out Valve hired the developer and was working on DOTA 2. This is why with Starcraft 2 they made it explicit that they own the rights to any custom games uploaded.
Re: (Score:2)
This statement is distressingly ignorant about the amount of novel work (technical, design, etc) that has gone into former.
(source: I've worked professionally in the game industry for ~8 years)
Re: (Score:2)
I expect Bluehole's suit to fail, just as Valve's suit against Blizzard would fail, but this is not because the one game isn't copying the other. They are clearly copying their predecessors. It's just that game mechanics aren't copyrightable. (Yet...
Re: (Score:2)
Dude, everything copies everything. "We stand on the shoulders of giants", "Great artists steal", etc. It wasn't that long ago that games like Half Life were called Doom clones, derivative, etc. Now many of those games are held in critical esteem, because the recognition of the novility won out over the originality purists.
Fortnite copied PUBG which copied Day Z (yes, I know, same guy, but a copy is a copy) which copied from Battle Royale which copied from Lord of the Flies. And yet, if someone says "I love
Re: (Score:2)
So according to you, game programming in general hasn't advanced in the last 50-odd years? I mean, they're almost all still of the form:
while( user doesn't exit )
check for user input
run AI
move enemies
resolve collisions
draw graphics
play sounds
end while
Similarly, I'm sure there are no worthwhile design considerations to consider within the wholly comprehensive pitch of "team-based shooter".
Well, now that my entire field
Hasn't this been around before... (Score:2)
1) Yes, growing up we called this a Battle Royal, as mentioned above.
2) Wasn't there a rather popular Minecraft mod called "Hunger Games"
???
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The minecraft mod predates DayZCherno+, let alone DayZ Battle Royale.
The PUBG crew is on crack. (Score:4, Interesting)
This is so abysmally stupid I can hardly believe it. PUBG is basically a better asset flip. The only thing that it has going is a neat new game mechanic and a reason to multiplay on a larger map. Other than that there is zilch innovation in the game. PUBG is going to lose big time. Indie Game critic Jim Sterling did a perfect analysis of this situation. [thejimquisition.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This could backfire tremendously (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Or port it to DBG's Forgelight engine, then after a year sue them for h1z1 copying them but going back in time and doing it earlier.
PUBG know very well what a total pile of shite Forgelight is, they wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, even with the massive stupidity of suing Epic.
Re: (Score:2)
IIRC, as part of other lawsuits' settlements, Epic has agreed not to intermingle its game business interests and its engine business interests.
Re: (Score:2)
That would likely break laws.
Unleash the attorneys! (Score:1)
For too long the world legal systems have failed (Score:5, Funny)
Not the first time PUBG has sued for copyright (Score:4, Informative)
game based off one game mode (Score:4, Insightful)
So you both made "Hunger Games: the video game?" (Score:1)
Or more specifically, "Last Man Standing, but with 100 people." Your game isn't even original to begin with here.
I hate it when organizations and entities I like do incredibly shitty things. Have fun hanging out with Lars Ulrich, I guess.
Re: (Score:2)
Pun intended?
Anyways, the rule book is copyrighted, obviously.
However, I've never seen any issue with replicating functionality. In fact, many popular board games are reskinned copies of traditional games, for example "Uno" is just "Crazy Eights" with redesigned cards. And replicating functionality is more than commonplace in software.
Maybe gameplay mechanics can be patented in some cases, but IANAL.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe gameplay mechanics can be patented in some cases, but IANAL.
Nope. Patents are only for a "process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter" (35 USC 101).