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Businesses Government PlayStation (Games) Sony

PlayStation Begins Collecting Amusement Tax From Chicago Users (chicagotribune.com) 165

schwit1 writes: PlayStation users in Chicago on Wednesday began paying a 9 percent tax on streaming content as the gaming company starts complying with a city levy. The Sony-owned company joins other streaming services including Spotify, Netflix and Hulu in complying with the charge, which took effect three years ago. The city's amusement tax, which used to apply mostly to concert and sporting event tickets, was extended to include streaming services in 2015. That includes charges paid for playing games, according to Chicago's Finance Department. Some tech companies have fought the additional 9 percent charge. Apple filed a lawsuit against the city in August alleging the tax on its music streaming services was illegal and discriminatory. That suit is pending in Cook County Circuit Court. Meanwhile, Apple is not collecting the tax. In 2015, a group of Netflix, Amazon Prime, Spotify, XBox Live and Hulu users sued Chicago in Cook County, alleging the tax violates federal law. The judge ruled in the city's favor in May, and the streaming service users appealed the decision. The case is pending in state Appellate Court.
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PlayStation Begins Collecting Amusement Tax From Chicago Users

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  • Wrong name (Score:4, Funny)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:20AM (#57655366)

    Because Chicago users are not amused about this.

    • Because Chicago users are not amused about this.

      If they're not amused they don't have to pay the tax. The tax is clearly only for those that are amused.

    • by harrkev ( 623093 )

      But people living in Chicago voted for the politicians that did this.

      • Re:Wrong name (Score:5, Insightful)

        by lgw ( 121541 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:01PM (#57656546) Journal

        But people living in Chicago voted for the politicians that did this.

        That's not how the Chicago political machine works, or has ever worked. Quoth Wikipedia:

        Chicago has a long history of political corruption,[11] dating to the incorporation of the city in 1833.[12] It has been a de facto monolithic entity of the Democratic Party from the mid 20th century onward.[13][14] Research released by the University of Illinois at Chicago reports that Chicago and Cook County's judicial district recorded 45 public corruption convictions for 2013, and 1642 convictions since 1976, when the Department of Justice began compiling statistics. This prompted many media outlets to declare Chicago the "corruption capital of America".[15] Gradel and Simpson's Corrupt Illinois (2015) provides the data behind Chicago's corrupt political culture.[16][17] They found that a tabulation of federal public corruption convictions make Chicago "undoubtedly the most corrupt city in our nation",[18] with the cost of corruption "at least" $500 million per year.[19]

        • by harrkev ( 623093 )

          But people COULD still vote for the other major party, or vote libertarian, or even independent. They keep voting for the corruption.

          I know that the dead people in Chicago always vote for democrats, but I would like to think that the living outnumber the dead.

        • by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @01:34PM (#57656766) Journal

          I've always wondered how Obama managed to thrive in the Chicago political environment, rising through the ranks in Chicago from community organizer, to the State Senate (representing Chicago), then to the US Senate (and then of course on to President) and remain so squeaky clean.

          • by Anonymous Coward

            Squeaky clean? Hardly, unless you're a dumbass who listens to CNN.

            Barry was chock full of scandal and corruption. Nobody really cared that much, though, because we were coming off the worst presidency in the history of the country and the Dems had no one else to run but literal NPCs. The meme has it semi-correct; while the "HURR MEDIA GUY GIB PROGRAM" is asinine... The Dem field was a field of same-faced assholes, indistinguishable from one another, where one was as good as the next.

            So the wiser heads

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            I've always wondered how Obama managed to thrive in the Chicago political environment, rising through the ranks in Chicago from community organizer, to the State Senate (representing Chicago), then to the US Senate (and then of course on to President) and remain so squeaky clean.

            He wasn't squeaky clean, the media protected him immensely. Negative things like his pastor being a racist, his pics with Louis Farrakhan, IRS targeting political opponents, and other scandals were brushed aside or buried. If the media had an axe to grind with him the way they did with either the president before or after him he would look less capable than Carter.

            citations

            https://talkingpointsmemo.com/... [talkingpointsmemo.com] https://www.azquotes.com/autho... [azquotes.com] https://www.naturalnews.com/04... [naturalnews.com]

            • That's the worst you can come up with?
              Trump beat that out with a single pussy grabbing tape before he was elected.
              If Nixon were still alive he'd be jumping with joy at no longer being the most corrupt president.
              • That's the worst you can come up with? Trump beat that out with a single pussy grabbing tape before he was elected. If Nixon were still alive he'd be jumping with joy at no longer being the most corrupt president.

                There are scandals at a personal level and there are scandals at a larger level. Womanizers like Trump, JFK, and Bill Clinton are personal level scandals. Not good but not as corrosive as gaining / maintaining power type scandals. Nixon, as well as Obama targeting political opponents via the IRS, are the latter and are far worse in the big picture / long run. That's why Nixon was properly considered so bad.

          • by lgw ( 121541 )

            and remain so squeaky clean.

            He was squeaky clean in the one way that mattered: the Clintons had nothing on him. The Clintons used their access through the presidency to get all the blackmail material that the intelligence agencies had on all potential rivals. Hillary should have had it easy in the 2008 primary, but Obama came out of nowhere.

            If he was in someone pocket the whole time, that person was a freaking genius. But then, I doubt historians will ever discover who really has the power in America.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    As if anyone who can isn't already trying to leave Chicago.

    • I really wasn't planning to move to Chicago (or even Illinois) but, even if I knew nothing else about the place, this alone would cause me to seek employment elsewhere.

      And it would not be just because of the tax itself, but because of what it implies about what is going on there, and what is yet to come.
  • Could try..... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by svendsen ( 1029716 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:32AM (#57655442)
    Lowering spending and face the fact your pension system was created of false hopes and unicorn dreams. The pension system is one of Chicago's biggest drains and if not dealt with will basically require never ending tax raises until it collapses anyway. The promise of the pension (based on nothing ore than magical wishing and crossing fingers of an ever growing population/economy) is no longer valid and sustainable.

    Either slash the pensions to nothing (and yes that hurts people on it) to try to give the current people an economic chance or keep raising taxes (which also hurts people) until those who have money and/or mobile decide to simply leave making the situation worse (which based on numbers of people leaving being greater than those coming in seems to be their choice).
    • the USPS is forced to prefund its long-term pension as well.

      Maybe an federal level fix is needed

    • We don't pensions, we need more money for the military and Israel. You don't need social security, medical care, education, or any of that crap. Make sure the military have more weapons and Israel always gets more aid. Pay. Pay for the military. Pay for Israel.
  • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:33AM (#57655446)

    Just like taxes on Gasoline, Cigarettes, Alcohol and Gambling. This is just an other Sin tax, where we are taxing people for products that are deemed by society to be bad for it, but is too popular to ban.

    The issue is, the Tax will raise the price of the product, but demand will not be affected by an amount, so it is just free money to the City. And if people just stop using such services, there isn't going to be a public outcry because they don't need it.

    • by mjwx ( 966435 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @10:50AM (#57655572)

      Just like taxes on Gasoline, Cigarettes, Alcohol and Gambling. This is just an other Sin tax

      Petrol is a sin? When did this happen. I cant remember the part of the bible that said, "Thou shalt not engineer the combustion of internals".

      The word you're looking for is "soft target". Gamers will not garner any sympathy from the majority, same as smokers, drinkers, gamblers and drivers. This makes it a soft target, not a sin.

      Sin taxes refer explicitly to vices, drinking, smoking, gambling, pornography and the like.

      The thing is, going after soft targets almost never gets as much cash as they hope for, in fact they rarely generate enough money to justify their existence like the "soft drink tax" here in the UK.

    • This is just an other Sin tax, where we are taxing people for products that are deemed by society to be bad for it, but is too popular to ban.

      So the leftist lords of Chicago are really Cotton Mather?

      The issue is, the Tax will raise the price of the product, but demand will not be affected by an amount, so it is just free money to the City.

      Ah, there you hit on it ...

    • hmmm... not so sure about this.

      I'd say that the 'net is both the new Soma [wikipedia.org] and the Telescrene [wikipedia.org]. Not in their interests to discourage use.

  • That's when you structure your taxes to disproportionately affect the poor and working class because your elected reps won't raise taxes on their wealthy donors. Another good example is flat alcohol taxes. You'll pay the same tax on that 50 cent can of Pabst Blue Ribbon that your CEO pays on his $3000 bottle of Chateau de something-or-other.

    As an added bonus these taxes piss off working class people who then demand tax cuts. You then give tax cuts to billionaire elites and when there's the inevitable bu
    • Another good example is flat alcohol taxes. You'll pay the same tax on that 50 cent can of Pabst Blue Ribbon that your CEO pays on his $3000 bottle of Chateau de something-or-other.

      In my city in Colorado, the sales tax on the beer would be about $0.03 and on the $3,000 bottle of wine ~$250. I'm not sure about the Federal alcohol tax.

      • for a discussion [sciencedaily.com]. Some states charge on dollars sold (the more progressive ones) but a lot charge on _volume_ sold. e.g. one liter of Pabst taxes the same as one liter of expensive wine.
    • That's when you structure your taxes to disproportionately affect the poor and working class because your elected reps won't raise taxes on their wealthy donors. Another good example is flat alcohol taxes. You'll pay the same tax on that 50 cent can of Pabst Blue Ribbon that your CEO pays on his $3000 bottle of Chateau de something-or-other.

      I see. So, Chicago, run by leftists for decades, is actually a regressive place run by fat cats?

      • Chicago is run by Clinton Democrats. Right wing Democrats who mostly act like the GOP except on social issues. They do this because the voters are used to voting Democrat but actual left wing Dems don't get fat sacks of corporate cash with which to buy elections.

        Again, this is why you, as a voter, need to demand better. Make No Corp PAC money a defining issue.
  • All of their powerful competitors are fighting this tax. It will probably be struck down. If it is, then Sony looks like not just an asshole for collecting it, but a dumbshit and abusive to users to boot. But even if it isn't, then Sony looks like the reason it isn't, and still looks like a pack of assholes. If the competition is refusing to collect the tax, then Sony should also refuse to collect it.

    OFC, Sony does everything wrong, so this is my surprised face.

    • I'm not so sure it isn't the RIGHT call for Sony, especially if they DETAIL the tax on their billing.

      I do not see where there is much of a legal argument that Chicago cannot assess taxes like this on their residents You would first have to prove that the basic tax itself was illegal, as applied to what it originally taxed - tickets to concerts, sports events, etc. Those have been largely held up to be legal; the precedent has been established, and only the definition broadened.

      So the industry is tilting win

      • You would first have to prove that the basic tax itself was illegal, as applied to what it originally taxed - tickets to concerts, sports events, etc.

        Ah, yes, but those EVENTs were held physically in the area/state. These virtual ones are not...and usually house outside the state.

        I know that laws are saying you can collect tax on sales of physical items you buy and are shipped to you, but a game is NOT a physical item, it is a moment in time online and not something you physically have to go to attend.

      • I do not see where there is much of a legal argument that Chicago cannot assess taxes like this on their residents

        The argument is not that Chicago cannot assess taxes like this on their residents, but rather that they have no authority to force companies outside their own jurisdiction to serve as tax-collectors. If Chicago wants to assess a tax on the citizens of Chicago for playing Sony's games that is strictly between the Chicago government and the people who live there. Sony should have no obligation either to report on the people playing their games or to collect and remit the tax.

  • I have never understood why the assumed jurisdiction for the sale is the location of the client , why not the location of the server from which the request comes.
    or the location of the server where money is actually exchanged. If I call someone in china and buy something from them mail order with my visa card, where did that transaction occur? Pretty sure it wasn't my home state and I am really no certain why anyone would think otherwise. Or at least the state needs to stop expecting the 'vendor' to act li

    • by Anonymous Coward

      I have never understood why the assumed jurisdiction for the sale is the location of the client , why not the location of the server from which the request comes.

      Because we've already been down this road decades ago with mail-order catalogs. Now, if you are asking why that decision was made way back then, well, I do not have an answer to that.

      I also do not have an answer to why some people think that, just because it is now "on the internet", the old rule of sellers having no obligation to collect sales tax unless they are in the same jurisdiction no longer applies.

  • lol (Score:5, Funny)

    by cascadingstylesheet ( 140919 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @11:03AM (#57655664) Journal

    Young gamers look up from screen ...

    "Hey, I thought socialism meant that other people paid more. WTF???"

    • if the gamers don't make much money. Progressive taxation is one of the features of Democratic Socialism. This is a regressive tax, it's not something a socialist would support.
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @11:17AM (#57655754)

    There have been a number of games I've bought in the past that brought no amusement whatsoever.

    I'm thinking something like a tax refund if the game you buy gets below 50% on Metacritic.

  • by Impy the Impiuos Imp ( 442658 ) on Friday November 16, 2018 @11:21AM (#57655780) Journal

    You voted for it! You encourage voracious government for massive spending, as Shakespeare might have said, "As you like it!"

    Times are better than ever before. Government spending should be shrinking. Yet it grows.

    It's almost as if it has nothing to do with need and everything to do with buying votes!

    • I oppose taxes like these, and so do the folks I vote for. I voted to increase taxes on corporations and the extremely wealthy ($300k+/yr in annual income). The extremely wealthy, for their part, bought off politicians and spent a fortune on add campaigns promoting tax cuts for themselves, leaving these sorts of taxes the only kind gov'ts can get approved.

      We all still want roads and schools. We want police and fire. But nobody seems to want to have to pay for it.
  • by PPH ( 736903 )

    This is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Chicago city council, pay up.

  • Or you would kick these a-hats out of power in Chicago, the peoples republic of Illinois. Your dear leaders are only there to HELP you. (yeah, to steal more of YOUR money).
  • As someone else pointed out, Chicago has a long history of rampant corruption, as well as a long history of being in financial straits. This is desperation on their part.
    What'll happen is this: similar to how many Chinese get around the the Great Firewall, people who can grok how to do it will do an end-run around the 'tax' by using a VPN, TOR, or something similar, if possible (depends on how the tax is levied).
    Something else that might happen: people will say 'fuck this' and just not use the services th
  • Just another thing to punish law-abiding citizens and make piracy more attractive.

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