Square Enix Pulls Three Games From Belgium After Loot Box Ban (theguardian.com) 102
The games publisher Square Enix is pulling three mobile games from Belgium following the introduction of a law in the European nation that bans "loot boxes" as a form of gambling. From a report: The games -- "Mobius Final Fantasy", "Kingdom Hearts Union X" and "Dissidia Final Fantasy Opera Omnia" -- are some of largest titles in the publisher's mobile roster, although it is better known for its console games such as "Tomb Raider", "Final Fantasy" and "Hitman." In statements posted in the games, Square Enix confirmed that the new law was to blame for their removal, citing "the present uncertain legal status of 'loot boxes' under Belgian law". Belgium first took action against "loot boxes", digital reward packs which can be bought with real or virtual money and contain a semi-random array of in-game items, back in April. The country's gaming commission ruled that the mechanics, as implemented in three popular games -- "Overwatch", "Fifa 18" and "Counter-Strike: Global Offensive" -- were in violation of gambling legislation.
Re: Not new (Score:1)
Loot boxes - future of gaming addiction
God Bless the EU (Score:2, Troll)
But it's a Nanny State.
Is there a Ministry of Protection from Games yet?
Gambling is regulated for a very good reason (Score:4, Insightful)
The trouble here is the games industry is refusing to self regulate. And who can blame them? They're making not just billions, but tens of billions. Activision and EA have collectively increased their market cap by $70 billion. Like it or not, loot boxes work. And they work because _gambling_ works. It's not as though the effects of gambling aren't well researched either.
At this point I think the game makers know what they're doing is wrong and that they're going to have to stop. They're just going to make as much money as they can before the ban hammer comes down. In the meantime it kinda sucks to be a gamer if you want new games, since they're stuffed full of crap that's meant to manipulate me. I'm old enough to see right through that crap so it's ruins the escapism for me. It drags me right back to the real world like a bad product placement.
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The trouble here is the games industry is refusing to self regulate. And who can blame them? They're making not just billions, but tens of billions. Activision and EA have collectively increased their market cap by $70 billion. Like it or not, loot boxes work. And they work because _gambling_ works. It's not as though the effects of gambling aren't well researched either.
Look - I understand gambling, and I think those who do it regularly are idiots. But for my money, it isn't a mental illness.
Does the EU not have stock markets? That is gambling, and there are people who are addicted to that, and people who lose everything.
At this point I think the game makers know what they're doing is wrong and that they're going to have to stop.
I wonder if Candy Crush is next on the hit list?
And if the EU is nannying it's citizens, why not ban gambling in all th eplaces that have casinos in the EU - I'd bet my life that those Casinos have ruiuned many more lives than loot boxes.
Or Candy
You don't understand gambling (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't nannying. It's recognizing a vulnerable minority and taking steps to protect them. You might just as well say consumer protection laws are nannying.
Lastly, video games are Casinos now. The lootboxes are the slots and poker tables. It's like how Uber is really a taxi cab service. You call a spade a spade and gambling gambling. The only reason loot boxes haven't ruined more lives is the game companies are holding back just a bit. They're only doing that under threat of regulation.
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if you think people who do it regularly are idiots. Gambling takes advantage of several well known psychological quirks [google.com] of the human mind to manipulate already vulnerable people.
Once upon a time, I was a smoker. 3 plus packs a day. I was as addicted as you get. I was an idiot. I realized the expense and the health hazard. So I quit.
This isn't nannying. It's recognizing a vulnerable minority and taking steps to protect them. You might just as well say consumer proatection laws are nannying.
Except consumer protection laws are not nannying.They are ensuring quality ans safety. Enough with the slippery sloping me into being an anarchist.
One thing that the USA can speak with authority on is exactly what happens when you ban things. What that thing is, the creation of a very lucrative source of money for organized crime. Prohibition of alc
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You fail to acknowledge that to go into a casino you need to be 18 or 21 to gamble. This is targeting kids when their brains havenâ(TM)t even developed enough(or mature enough) to recognize the risks. Just like Cigarettes, you canâ(TM)t sell them to children. And giving games to children that have gambeling with real money should be treated as such with the same penalties.
How exactly does a child have the money to gamble with? Or do children in Europe have their own credit cards?
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Jesus fuck STFU, you don't seem to understand how things work, no one has to explain it for you.
U mad Bro?
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Gambling is definitely not an illness of any sort, however Gambling Addiction most certainly is.
Stock Markets are not gambling, just like sports events are not gambling. There are certainly people who gamble on them, but that doesn't negate their actual purpose and function.
I agree that the regulation cropping up around loot boxes is extreme and provides a slippery slope, or lubes up an existing slope. That said the behavior of the gaming industry in so broadly implementing these bullshit systems is clearly
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But for my money, it isn't a mental illness.
hey, where did you get your psychology degree, asshole?
I Don't recall saying I was, intensely angry person.
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You are trying to turn the discussion into one of which words a given person chooses rather than the actual topic at hand, which is gambling, the addiction to gambling, the effects of said addiction on the human mind, and whether loot boxes in computer games have the same effect.
Do you work for a game company, either directly or indirectly?
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If there was a way in game to spend money to literally kill other players would you be okay with that? I'm asking seriously
Okay, I will answer you seriously. There is something wrong with you. Equating my belief that a child shouldn't have access to spending money for a "loot box" with me believing that murder is ever excusable or equivalent is so abysmally stupid that I can easily judge that you cannot think rationally.
As such, the smartest thing you did today was to post as an anonymous coward, because otherwise I'd remember to give you the ridicule you deserve.
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And if the EU is nannying it's citizens, why not ban gambling in all th eplaces that have casinos in the EU - I'd bet my life that those Casinos have ruiuned many more lives than loot boxes.
Gambling is HEAVILY regulated and you know it. There are limits on who, where and when. Things were worse before it was regulated.
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Are you also for a prohibition on alcohol because some people get addicted to alcohol? It's the same stupid argument. Some people can't handle it so no one should be able to enjoy it.
How about instead if you don't like playing the games, you just don't do it and don't worry what other people are doing.
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How about instead if you don't like playing the games, you just don't do it and don't worry what other people are doing.
The problem isn't those who don't like playing the games, but those who like playing them so much that they lose the ability for critical thinking and spend money they can't afford.
Even here in the US, there's protection against that - in many states, you can't buy lottery tickets or casino chips with credit cards, for example. But the video gaming companies accept credit cards.
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You can make an argument that 21 is ridiculous, but do you think it should be sold to 10-year-olds?
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I'm not saying the EU is a Nanny State....
But it's a Nanny State.
Is there a Ministry of Protection from Games yet?
I really hate this kind of bullshit on slashdot, the reality is games are still largely targetted towards kids and teens who's brains aren't developed. Maybe you want to raise a generation of gambling addicts but I don't.
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I'm not saying the EU is a Nanny State....
But it's a Nanny State.
Is there a Ministry of Protection from Games yet?
I really hate this kind of bullshit on slashdot, the reality is games are still largely targetted towards kids and teens who's brains aren't developed. Maybe you want to raise a generation of gambling addicts but I don't.
We need a Ministry of responsible Adulthood grooming.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Slashdot Neckbeards need to figure out what they want.
You and probably some of the libertarian/alt-right/randroid/all-government-is-collectivism types say:
"Nanny State"
Then someone else says:
"Loot boxes and microtransactions are anti-consumer and EVIL and should be banned"
Look, Self-regulation isn't working, this is when government needs to step up and lay down some consumer-friendly ground rules.
Besides, you can't run countries with millions of people like some tiny village with a few selectmen, you need s
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Slashdot Neckbeards need to figure out what they want.
You and probably some of the libertarian/alt-right/randroid/all-government-is-collectivism types say:
"Nanny State"
Wowsers! Never been called Alt-Right before. Why dropping to insults, as you're going to see when you read lower.
Then someone else says:
"Loot boxes and microtransactions are anti-consumer and EVIL and should be banned"
Right off, your concept of "everyone must think the same is a little disturbing. No, they don't, and there is no reason that they should.
Besides, you can't run countries with millions of people like some tiny village with a few selectmen, you need strong central governments because too many are working cross-purposes and causing harm to the nation as a whole.
It makes me exceptionally nervous when I see Europeans start talking about strong central governments. This trait pops up every once in a while, and the results are usually pretty bad.
Re:God Bless the EU (Score:5, Informative)
I didn't call YOU alt-right, I'm saying that because you are crying "Nanny State", you're falling into the trap of doing the same anti-government all-government-is-collectivism shit that the usual alt-right/randroid suspects do.
Right off, your concept of "everyone must think the same is a little disturbing. No, they don't, and there is no reason that they should.
I didn't say everyone needs to think the same. What I'm saying is that WE as citizens have to decide what we want to do about this. We can't have it both ways.
It makes me exceptionally nervous when I see Europeans start talking about strong central governments. This trait pops up every once in a while, and the results are usually pretty bad.
I'm in the US and Nazi Germany wasn't all of Europe. Neither was the old Soviet Union. Both are gone. And the UK, France, Spain, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, etc have strong central governments.
Strong central governments aren't a negative. In the Real World we need such things to do things that people want governments to do. A strong central government put men on the moon. A strong central government created the internet. Money from strong central governments wiped out smallpox.
And a strong central government is the ONLY thing that really has any chance at all of putting megacorps to heel.
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It's not like we have a shitload of evidence (along with hundreds of millions of bodies) that strong central governments are a bad idea..
Really, there are millions of people living in strong central governments that work. No government is perfect, but there are many strong central governments that are nice places to live. Some of the worst places on this planet are places without strong central governments, or those that are young and haven't worked out the kinks yet. (and are dealing with the legacy of colonization/imperialism)
I want a WEAK central government.. One that is tasked with a select list of things to do.. Like... Maybe... Regulate interstate commerce, common defense... stuff like that..
Articles of Confederation...it didn't work.
Everything that wasn't implicitly listed was supposed to belong to the states or the people. Then, if you don't like how some asshole is running a state, you can drive an hour and live in a state that is less assholish.
The US is not a confederacy. Why should say a gay man in California b
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The Constitution isn't Holy writ. it is a FLAWED human document written by people (a bunch of whom wanted to favor wealthy plantation owners in the rural south) who couldn't see what people might need in the future. It isn't infallible.
How the fuck did we end up with the FBI (for example)? The constitution gives absolutely no police powers to the federal government.
We have the FBI because we NEEDED it. We needed a central Federal law enforcement agency. But as an aside there have been federal marshals long before there was an FBI.
Don't give me the rationale for it, give me the legal argument for how the FBI can exist when it's in conflict with the 10th amendment..
Child, the legal argument doesn't matter. It really doesn't. We needed an FBI so we have one. That is
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You assholes rail about giant corporations and then extol the virtues of giant governments..
Unlike the corporation, the government works for me because WE are the government through our elected representatives. And what is the only thing that has a chance of stopping egregious behavior of corporations?
We haven't had a decade yet, in this country, where the constitution was actually obeyed.
Don't be a fool, the Constitution isn't infallible, being written by people with faults and axes to grind. You're sounding more and more like one of those "Sovereign Citizen" crackpots out in Idaho or Montana.
THE FEDERAL FUCKING GOVERNMENT POISONED AND KILLED 20,000 AMERICAN CITIZENS FOR DRINKING ALCOHOL DURING PROHIBITION.
It did? citation needed.
The Supreme Court upheld SLAVERY.
Why yes it did, because the Constitution you worship didn't outla
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The official number is more like 10,000 [slate.com].
This nation was built on genocide and it has been run by oligarchs in a slipshod, slap-dash fashion. Luck and natural resources have carried us so far, but that time is ending.
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My argument to that would be to make the countries smaller. Strong central governments are not the solution to anything.. Well, they can be the FINAL solution.. if you catch my drift..
that is one of the stupidest things I've read today because you are, right now, using a communications network that has it's origins in a Government project of the USA. And what did it take to stop the Final Solution? Did the netherlands belgium and luxembourg destroy the Third Reich? No, it was a bunch of POWERFUL strong Central governments with vast resources. UK and the Commonwealth, the US and the former Soviet Union.
Do you think some tiny little country like montenegro could put a man on the moon?
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What does the EU have to do with this story?
Belgium is a member, and this is the sort of thing that the EU is getting more and more into these days. All you have to do is wait a short while
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Entropy increases.. And yeah, it is inevitable that governments get worse.. When has a government ever gotten better on its own? (short of revolution or war)
You are not wrong
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What's wrong with that? Belgium (and the EU in general, though this is Belgium only for now) believes loot boxes are detrimental to their population, especially the young people targeted by that business model. It's a model that can have massive (negative) financial impacts on the individual, and fosters addiction. Now, you may not believe that about loot boxes, and that's your right, but the Belgian government does, and as a self-respecting government thinking about doing the best for its population, it decided to act.
Gambling addiction is interesting, and apparently has a genetic component. https://www.nhs.uk/news/geneti... [www.nhs.uk] The study notes that almost half of all gambling addicts are women - so what the hell - is this pandering for money because once you invoke the W word, people get sympathetic and shower their largess upon it?? If you weren't, you'd write that gambling addiction is fairly consistent between the sexes. But I digress.
Anyhow, the brains of addicts get the same sort of endorphin buzz over almost winn
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Alcoholic beverages are heavily regulated, though.
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Otherwis
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Otherwise yeah, I agree you can't just ban everything that's potentially addicting. However you do forget to address the fact drugs are banned, and alcohol is regulated, and that's fine...
Is there anyone here familiar with the game? Do you have to use a credit card to register the game so that a 5 year old can buy stuff?
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Lessee Belgium.... I enjoy a nice Belgium ale a few times a year - but people can become alcoholics. Should we ban alcoholic beverages?
We did, for a while, did you forget Prohibition? Did you know that per capita alcohol consumption in the United States is STILL below pre-prohibition levels. Abuse of Alcohol was a serious socio-economic problem pre-prohibition, and while it still is, it isn't as bad as it was before.
Alcohol is still HEAVILY regulated. There's rules about who can buy it, rules about where and when it can be sold and consumed, and a lot more cultural censure on those who overuse it.
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Should we ban alcoholic beverages?
We did, for a while, did you forget Prohibition? Did you know that per capita alcohol consumption in the United States is STILL below pre-prohibition levels.
It's actually below prohibition levels, too. Prohibition was not the answer, reform was the answer. Prohibition was one way to get there, but it was the wrong way.
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Did you have it with France cheese or Germany sausage?
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Did you have it with France cheese or Germany sausage?
Me flunk English? That's unpossible!
Kinder Surprise vs. Kinder Joy (Score:2)
Is there a Kinder Surprise Toy Ministry in the US?
I forget whether it's the Food and Drug Administration, but the USA bans Kinder Surprise because food and toy are enclosed together, posing a choking hazard. It allows Kinder Joy because the food and toy are separately sealed.
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Is there a Kinder Surprise Toy Ministry in the US?
I forget whether it's the Food and Drug Administration, but the USA bans Kinder Surprise because food and toy are enclosed together, posing a choking hazard. It allows Kinder Joy because the food and toy are separately sealed.
Do people in Europe understand the difference between choking and expiring on a plastic toy inside food, and children who apparently are allowed to use mommy and daddy's credit card to buy stuff?
If the child who we are so worried about developing a gambling addiction doesn't have the means to buy the loot boxes, then the problem does not exist, does it?
Or do European parents not supervise their chidren's use of computers? Just hand them the credit card, and expect that everything is someone elses fault?
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How many betting shops are there on your local high street? None, you have to go to an Indian reservation, right?
Nothing Of Value Was Lost (Score:2, Insightful)
All games with loot boxes or micro transactions should be banned. Why people play this shit is beyond me.
Arcade games (Score:2)
Would you prefer that arcade games never have existed? "INSERT COIN" is a repeatable microtransaction.
Re: Arcade games (Score:3, Insightful)
You paid 25 cent to play a game. Now you are paying $1-$10 for an ITEM in a game YOU already paid for.
Apples and oranges.
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Some of those games are free and make their profits exclusively by selling items.
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Then perhaps a better analogy is a blind-box trinket vending machine inside an amusement park that charges admission.
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Arcade games are upfront and predictable about what you get for a credit (a certain number of lives, health, time extend in a driving game, whatever). Lootboxes contain random, often duplicated items. They're gambling.
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Lootboxes contain random, often duplicated items.
So do blind box vending machines, which are often seen at a store's exit next to the gumball machine.
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You have obviously never played OverWatch. All the loot boxes are cosmetic and do not change the gameplay at all. You cannot buy yourself a faster, strong, better character. You can only make it look different.
As a gamer, I don't mind those kinds of loot boxes. You also sometimes receive them for free in the game (at random, I think?) and the cosmetic items are random, too. The only constant is that there is four items per box.
I think Belgium is pushing things too far and should only ask Blizzard to ban th
disney does not like them or slots (Score:2)
disney does not like them or slots
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Disney has their own loot box game, Disney Heroes Battle Mode. You pay real money for random crap. They have guaranteed elements, though. I've been playing it, it's fairly fun for a grind game, though of course I haven't given them any money.
Well shit (Score:3)
I guess they'll have to go back to making normal games.
Jim Sterling's made a good point (Score:2)
So far so good, but it's going to punch a massive hole in the balance sheets of every major company. The shareholders aren't going to stand for that. I'm not really sure what will happen. "Activist" shareholders might push to liquidate the companies. Or the companies
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I have no problem with gambling. But when I want to go gambling I can go to a casino and do it.
As for corporate profits, there was a time when game companies existed before online services and in-game currency. Of course the game industry was a fraction of the size it is now.
Cutting an industry down to a smaller size isn't the end of humanity or even the end of gaming. Definitely would transform it into a different sort of business, hopefully a better sort.
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I guess they'll have to go back to making normal games.
That would be nice. At the very least these games should be labelled, so I can choose to avoid them, just like those freemium games.
That seems unwise from a business standpoint (Score:1)
EU nations and more laws (Score:2)
Now EU nations want to control computer game content.
Why do EU government and bureaucrats want so much control over what people read and do using networked computers?
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Yeah, the EU should just make up some tariffs.
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blame the law? (Score:2)
i would say, i blame the game for being an incognito gambling scheme.